Super cheap alcohol..

mikeecho · 20-08-2020 7:03pm #1

Warning over 'exceptional affordability' of alcohol — 17 units for just €7.65

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40034717.html

Can anyone tell me where I can get a bottle of whiskey for €12.50 ?

According to the survey, an Irish consumer can spend,......... Spirits come in as slightly more expensive, with a standard drink of vodka and whiskey costing 62c and gin at 69c.

If a standard drink is 35ml.. and there's 20 shots in a standard bottle., That's €12.40

Where are these guys buying their spirits.

BeerNut · 20-08-2020 9:15pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Where are these guys buying their spirits.

Here's the data.

odyssey06 · 20-08-2020 9:41pm

BeerNut wrote: »

Here's the data.

Thanks.

They have Drombeg listed as an Irish whiskey at 40 percent abv for 11 euros in Dunnes.

Its a whiskey liqueur at 20-25 percent abv.

Distorts their data on whiskey.

Prices for products I know seem correct but I wouldnt trust their ABVs.
Or agenda!

Geuze · 21-08-2020 2:19am

What is the definition of a Standard Drink?

How does it compare to a unit of alcohol?

Pkiernan · 21-08-2020 2:22am

A bottle of spiced rum or bourbon is E15 in lidll/aldi

rubadub · 21-08-2020 11:10am

Geuze wrote: »

What is the definition of a Standard Drink?

How does it compare to a unit of alcohol?

They are the same, units can vary around the world.

In Ireland it is 10g of alcohol.

To get the units you multiply the volume in litres by percentage by 0.789 (alcohol density)

so a 500ml can of 4.2% guinness is

0.5*4.2*0.789=1.66 units

In the survey they have cheap galahad & excelsior as 500ml, I think one or both are 440ml.

that men can drink their weekly low-risk limit of 17 drinks for as low as €7.65

The low risk 17 drinks will increase to €17, so nearly €10 extra, €486 per year. They are inadvertently showing up the utter bull**** claim that MUP will have little to no effect on people money wise, that only hardcore problem drinkers would be effected.

Increasing excise to match MUP would gain billions in much needed revenue (MUP is not a tax, the retailer gets most of it, government just get the extra VAT), and as we are reassured "and sure nobody would even notice the price increase unless they are desparate alcos!". An increase in excise would "help" far more people too, as it would effect everybody, not just people who happen to buy cheaper alcohol, many whom are harder hit anyways as that €10 per week would eat into their disposable income a lot more.

Xterminator · 21-08-2020 11:25am

Another concern here (for me) is that is you put up the price of the 'bargain' drinks the premium brands price will be increased to maintain the difference. does anyone think devils bit and koppaberg will sell for the price per litre after the governments planned minimum price changes? No, of course not. If the manufacturer doesn't raise the price, the retailer will.

and the gas thing about the minimum price mechanism is the retailer and manufacturer will pocket the difference. If you accept the price increase is justifiably socially, due to the social cost of alcohol on society, A&E, Policing etc, then surely the price increase mechanism is to raise the tax so that the taxpayer pockets the extra revenue and those funds can be diverted to remedying the social ills.

of course the government has raising tax in every budget i can remember already. And i dont see a graph showing as tax increases, alcoholism reduces!

Instead the customer will be worse off, and will not have better funded services. It appears to me to be the worst of both worlds - as a taxpayer and responsible drinker.

Geuze · 21-08-2020 11:35am

Xterminator wrote: »

of course the government has raising tax in every budget i can remember already. And i dont see a graph showing as tax increases, alcoholism reduces!
.

For many years beer excise remained constant.

[Deleted User] · 21-08-2020 11:38am

Where the flip can you buy a beer for 59 cent?

Geuze · 21-08-2020 11:53am

The lowest price per unit, according to their data, is Excelsior / Galahad lager in Lidl/ALDI.

I don't see the 59 cent you refer to.

I see 47 cent for Excelsior 4%, 12 cans 50cl for 8.99.

Thelonious Monk · 21-08-2020 12:16pm

There's no cheap alcohol in Ireland, it's up there with the most expensive in Europe. Don't be fooled by Holy Joe propaganda.

Xterminator · 21-08-2020 12:25pm

Geuze wrote: »

For many years beer excise remained constant.

wine and spirits hsve consistently gone up. beer and cider appear static

https://assets.gov.ie/19125/e5b8f6f439b2476daaab1fdd25a580fd.pdf

as a result overall prices have gone up, but for a beer drinker, they have not been affected. if you like spirits you cannot say the same.

Thelonious Monk · 21-08-2020 12:25pm

I can remember buying 4 Hackberg for a 5er in 2003 in Ranelagh. They're now 5.50 I think.

[Deleted User] · 21-08-2020 12:34pm

I remember getting Jameson in Spar for 24.99 around 2008. You never see it sub-30 in Spar nowadays. A 16% increase in 12 years.

The only things that consistently go up in price in this country ase booze and property prices.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2020 1:22pm

The excise on wine is a blatant discrimination against imported products, I'm surprised no EU body has pulled us up on it.

the beer revolu · 21-08-2020 1:39pm

denartha wrote: »

I remember getting Jameson in Spar for 24.99 around 2008. You never see it sub-30 in Spar nowadays. A 16% increase in 12 years.

The only things that consistently go up in price in this country ase booze and property prices.

Except cheap booze is way cheaper now than it was 30 years ago.
Back then a cheap can cost £1 (Fosters, Royal Dutch, Dorfmeister, etc). Now you can but a cheap can for €1 or less.

Back then, a cheap bottle of Bulgarian or Chilean Cab sauv was £5. Now you can but a cheap bottle of wine for under €5.

So, while branded products may have increased in price, without even allowing for inflation, cheap booze was actually more expensive 30 years ago than it is now.

the beer revolu · 21-08-2020 1:40pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

The excise on wine is a blatant discrimination against imported products, I'm surprised no EU body has pulled us up on it.

The same duty applies to Irish made wine.
There's no discrimination.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2020 2:30pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

The same duty applies to Irish made wine.
There's no discrimination.

All 100 bottles of Irish made wine?
It was clearly targeted for extra taxation because we don't have any significant domestic producers of it.

L1011 · 21-08-2020 2:34pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Except cheap booze is way cheaper now than it was 30 years ago.
Back then a cheap can cost £1 (Fosters, Royal Dutch, Dorfmeister, etc). Now you can but a cheap can for €1 or less.

Back then, a cheap bottle of Bulgarian or Chilean Cab sauv was £5. Now you can but a cheap bottle of wine for under €5.

So, while branded products may have increased in price, without even allowing for inflation, cheap booze was actually more expensive 30 years ago than it is now.

For the cheapest of the cheap spirits and wine in supermarkets its clearly below cost; in some cases on spirits the duty + VAT alone is the same as the retail price. Cheapest beers would be questionable as to whether they're below cost or not.

Groceries Order partial reintroduction will fix that if they actually wanted to tackle that, and not bring in MUP to pacify publicans.

rubadub · 21-08-2020 2:36pm

Xterminator wrote: »

if you like spirits you cannot say the same.

that is the other unintended consequence of MUP, problem drinkers and youngsters on a tight budget will switch to stronger drinks.

This will happen for 2 reasons, you get more effect from a unit of strong alcohol than weak ones, 15 units of vodka can be downed a lot quicker than 15 units of 3.8% beer. I wonder if any kid has had a blackout or had to have their stomach pumped downing 3.8% cheapo beers.

Then there is the value of brand. Their cheapo drinks will double in price or more, while a bottle of vodka will be €20.71, which is pretty much the regular price for smirnoff, absolut etc. In Scotland sales of buckfast wine skyrocketted as the price was pretty much the same.

People predict smirnoff etc will increase the price as they do not want to be priced the same as tescos cheap vodka. I think in Scotland they simply do not stock cheapo brands anymore. There is also open competition out there, a small independent offie is free to import smirnoff etc from other countries and bypass the distributors here.

Excise has traditionally been higher on spirits in most countries and I believe it is due to the more damaging effects of it, the unit price will now be the same and actually the price "per session" is less due to it having more effect per unit if not diluted to the same strength as beer, which it rarely is.

Geuze · 21-08-2020 2:55pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Except cheap booze is way cheaper now than it was 30 years ago.
Back then a cheap can cost £1 (Fosters, Royal Dutch, Dorfmeister, etc). Now you can but a cheap can for €1 or less.

Back then, a cheap bottle of Bulgarian or Chilean Cab sauv was £5. Now you can but a cheap bottle of wine for under €5.

So, while branded products may have increased in price, without even allowing for inflation, cheap booze was actually more expensive 30 years ago than it is now.

It is true that prices of some alcohol in supermarkets are relatively cheaper than 30 years ago, yes.

Cases of 33cl bottles seem to be a particular example.

Also the deals at Xmas, etc. - 24 cans 50cl for €24-30.

But it is also true that alcohol in Ireland is expensive compared to other EU countries, both on and off trade.

These lobby groups see 33cl bottles and 50cl cans for €1 and less, and get worried about social consequences.

I see 50cl cans for 29 cent in Germany, and pints in Portugal for 1-2 euro, and I don't see any social breakdown there.

Maybe Germany, Portugal, etc. have underlying health problems due to cheap alcohol?

The problems caused by alcohol in Ireland are not due to the price, and so changing the price won't solve the problems.

odyssey06 · 21-08-2020 3:01pm

In France you can get a drinkable* bottle of wine for €2.50.
In Ireland it is €5.
It used to be €4 before they upped the duty on wine in 2013 (out of all proportional to other duties).
That's a 25% increase.
Has it made any difference whatsover to any Irish societal problems? Anyone want to make that case?

* you can take a euro off the above for wine of dubious drinking quality but my main point remains

the beer revolu · 21-08-2020 3:11pm

L1011 wrote: »

For the cheapest of the cheap spirits and wine in supermarkets its clearly below cost; in some cases on spirits the duty + VAT alone is the same as the retail price. Cheapest beers would be questionable as to whether they're below cost or not.

Groceries Order partial reintroduction will fix that if they actually wanted to tackle that, and not bring in MUP to pacify publicans.

I'd agree with all that.
I was just pointing out that it's not true to say that alcohol is always getting dearer - it's actually gotten cheaper, whatever the reason.

the beer revolu · 21-08-2020 3:16pm

Geuze wrote: »

It is true that prices of some alcohol in supermarkets are relatively cheaper than 30 years ago, yes.

Cases of 33cl bottles seem to be a particular example.

Also the deals at Xmas, etc. - 24 cans 50cl for €24-30.

But it is also true that alcohol in Ireland is expensive compared to other EU countries, both on and off trade.

These lobby groups see 33cl bottles and 50cl cans for €1 and less, and get worried about social consequences.

I see 50cl cans for 29 cent in Germany, and pints in Portugal for 1-2 euro, and I don't see any social breakdown there.

Maybe Germany, Portugal, etc. have underlying health problems due to cheap alcohol?

The problems caused by alcohol in Ireland are not due to the price, and so changing the price won't solve the problems.

I agree with this also.
I'm not in support of MUP.

[Deleted User] · 25-08-2020 10:32am

Geuze wrote: »

The lowest price per unit, according to their data, is Excelsior / Galahad lager in Lidl/ALDI.

I don't see the 59 cent you refer to.

I see 47 cent for Excelsior 4%, 12 cans 50cl for 8.99.

I have never seen Excelsior for 47 cent.

rubadub · 25-08-2020 10:44am

denartha wrote: »

I have never seen Excelsior for 47 cent.

its the price per unit, not can.

Hotblack Desiato · 27-08-2020 11:01pm

rubadub wrote: »

They are the same, units can vary around the world.

In Ireland it is 10g of alcohol.

To get the units you multiply the volume in litres by periscentage by 0.789 (alcohol density)

so a 500ml can of 4.2% guinness is

0.5*4.2*0.789=1.66 units

This is ridiculous. In the UK a unit is 10mL of alcohol, much simpler, but no we had to reinvent the wheel and make an arse of it while doing so. It'd be easier for producers (especially small ones) and consumers if we used the same units as the UK.

Increasing excise to match MUP would gain billions in much needed revenue (MUP is not a tax, the retailer gets most of it, government just get the extra VAT), and as we are reassured "and sure nobody would even notice the price increase unless they are desparate alcos!". An increase in excise would "help" far more people too, as it would effect everybody, not just people who happen to buy cheaper alcohol, many whom are harder hit anyways as that €10 per week would eat into their disposable income a lot more.

Fully agree. MUP is a load of bollix and clearly designed to help publicans by hitting off-licences and supermarkets.

rubadub · 28-08-2020 9:43am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

This is ridiculous. In the UK a unit is 10mL of alcohol, much simpler, but no we had to reinvent the wheel and make an arse of it while doing so.

the UK are the odd ones out, this list shows only Iceland using the same as them. But I totally agree the 10ml makes far more sense as its so easy to calculate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_drink#Definitions_in_various_countries

we use the most common method going off that list.

BeerNut · 28-08-2020 10:15am

As an aside, here's the story behind the decision in 1987 to come up with a "safe" number of weekly units for men and women, a metric that's still in use with just as much scientific basis now as then.

[Deleted User] · 28-08-2020 12:29pm

Listening to this debate on Newstalk about pubs being safe environments to drink.

No-one ever got mugged between their sofa and their bed.

Hotblack Desiato · 28-08-2020 12:36pm

rubadub wrote: »

we use the most common method going off that list.

Yes. and we're still wrong

Super cheap alcohol..

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