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Car servicing and main dealers approach

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  • 19-08-2020 7:05pm
    #1
    E30M3
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭


    I have a 4 year old car that has a 7 year or 150,000 klms warranty. I wish to service this car in such a manner so as to preserve the warranty as you can imagine.

    My approach up to now has been to use the Main Dealer where I purchased the car for all servicing, to avoid as much as possible any complications re warranty, however I'm now not happy with their approach and wanted to check if this is the norm.

    I purchased a service 'pack' which covered 5 services up to 75,000 klms and I got it serviced on the button. During this period the oil was only topped up at the interim 15k klms and changed at 30k and 60k. Fair enough if that is the schedule and I didn't think any more of it.

    Air and Fuel Filter were changed at 60k, again fair enough, I assumed that was in line with the manufacturers recommendations.


    Fast forward to 90k and they performed a full service, changing oil and Fuel and Air Filters and suggesting a Cabin Filter which I declined and subsequently changed myself. I was paying for this service myself.

    Servicing again this week at 105k klms and I was surprised to be 'recommended' a Fuel Filter, Cabin Filter, Air Filter in addition to the Oil and filter change they did routinely(Only topped up at the 'interim' services when I had the service pack in operation.

    I declined the Fuel, Air and Pollen filters and asked why they were recommended after 15k klms and I wasn't given an answer.

    They also advised Front Brake Pads and Discs at a cost of €380 and a Brake Fluid change which was I think €70. I declined both as I was losing trust and have the car booked in Monday with an Indy I trust to change them as necessary.

    I paid for the 'basic' service and left feeling like this was a shakedown. Is this the norm and am I out of touch?

    I then checked the service recommendations for the car to maintain warranty cover

    Oil every 30k or Annually
    Fuel and Air Filters every 60k or 2 years. The car was serviced last November at 90k.

    Sorry for all the detail but I'm wondering if I go to another Main Dealer for the same brand will I get the same approach?


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    #2
    Amouar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Amouar


    I'm also servicing at a main dealer and have a hard time understanding why they ask for a major service to be done every 2 years regardless of mileage while the fuel and air filters have a car manufacturer change timeframe of 4 years or 37000 miles. My car's air and fuel filters were changed 2 years ago and I did 12000 miles only since then, therefore they still have 25000 more miles or 2 years before they need to be changed, yet I was asked to do a major service which I declined.

    When I asked the service manager why they need to change them every 2 years he said that this how main dealers do the car servicing by doing a minor service one year and a major service the next one...


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    #3
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Trust is a fickle thing.

    Could be a genuine mistake on the dealers part, it does happen.

    Filters could have been inspected and are in poor condition. People often berate main dealers for letting filters run too long, seems they can't advise changing them ahead of time now either.

    On the face of things it does seem like they've advised a full service immediately after a full service but i dont think we've enough info here to make a judgement.

    For example VW would insist when a new diesel car is within service plan or under warranty that it needs a fuel filter every 60k kms and an air filter every 90k kms but both of these become due for replacement after 30k kms when outside those parameters. Sure it looks like double standards and it very well could be, but that is their advice also if you are willing to go with it.

    Personally i think as cars age they often tend to slip further and further beyond the realms of menu maintenance and structured life cycles and although it means more stuff is changed more often, it more "catch all" to eliminate discrepancys and probably better for the car for not much more money.

    What's the make and model, what year is it? Did you consider asking them had they made an error instead of jumping to shakedown? They shouldn't be making errors but unfortunately they happen in every profession, all the time. It's more question of is it definitely unnecessary and if it definitely isnt necessary was it a genuine error or a deceptive error.


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Main dealers don’t make mistakes. The word ‘shakedown’ used above is exactly how they operate.


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    #5
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    For example we've a fella in work, who seemed addicted to advising engine air filters every single service.

    We ended up reviewing the stats on his VHC's versus other techs. This guy was advises far more engine air and pollen filters than anyone else. I never told him to and for the most part they are not on the inspection list for the first 5x services in the case of engine air.

    Politely asked him for a chat one day to get the suss on it. He said, he's being dilligent and if it's soiled, he advises replacement even if the manufacturer says let it run. You cant really argue with him on it.

    It becomes a tough shout then internally, let this guy advise what may be right and cause havoc with the menu servicing and make the place look like a shill or tell him to stick to the intervals, mark partially soiled as clean and the car will suffer (negligibly).

    Dont know what the point i'm trying to make actually is. Damned if you do and damned if you dont, i think.


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    #6
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,896 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Trust is indeed a fickle thing.

    I would have no trust in a main dealer carrying on like that.

    They, like the rest of us have hit some hard times but they'd want to remember that at the end of the day if they don't have the trust of the customer, on the next horizon they will have nothing to offer as a dealership.

    I'd demand a full written report from the head mechanic of the dealership as to how he can justify what is being advised and I'd then contact the manufacturer and demand a full written response as to the contradictions between what is advised.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #7
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,896 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    For example we've a fella in work, who seemed addicted to advising engine air filters every single service.

    We ended up reviewing the stats on his VHC's versus other techs. This guy was advises far more engine air and pollen filters than anyone else. I never told him to and for the most part they are not on the inspection list for the first 5x services in the case of engine air.

    Politely asked him for a chat one day to get the suss on it. He said, he's being dilligent and if it's soiled, he advises replacement even if the manufacturer says let it run. You cant really argue with him on it.

    It becomes a tough shout then internally, let this guy advise what may be right and cause havoc with the menu servicing and make the place look like a shill or tell him to stick to the intervals, mark partially soiled as clean and the car will suffer (negligibly).

    Dont know what the point i'm trying to make actually is. Damned if you do and damned if you dont, i think.

    If that's how you honestly feel then you should be reporting to him and not vice versa.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #8
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,269 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    Politely asked him for a chat one day to get the suss on it. He said, he's being dilligent and if it's soiled, he advises replacement even if the manufacturer says let it run. You cant really argue with him on it.

    Who is running the place?


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    #9
    E30M3
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭E30M3


    I did query with the Service Advisor as to why Air and Fuel filters are recommended for replacement after 15k klms or 9 months and I was just asked 'will we just do the basic service then?', I received no explanation and would have been happier had they said they made a mistake and should not have made that recommendation but that wasn't what happened.

    I outlined how I felt re shakedown here , I didn't state anything definitively but I find it hard to come to any other conclusion and hence I shared my experience here to get other views.

    My experience

    Within Service Plan

    Oil and oil filter every year or 30k
    Fuel and Air Filter at 60k

    The above is what I understand is the schedule from Kia for a 2016 Sportage.


    Outside Service Plan

    Oil and oil filter every 15k
    Fuel and Air Filter after 30k klms or 1.5 years

    and then this week 9 months and 15k after the above

    Oil and Oil Filter
    Fuel and Air Filter


    I checked the service schedule and it states 12 months or 30klms for Oil and Filter and 60k for Air and Fuel.

    Of course if I had been given a reason to change these more frequently than the Manufacture recommended intervals I would of course have listened.


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    #10
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,022 ✭✭✭Casati


    I’ve almost always used main dealer for servicing and in general I’ve avoided getting the shakedown but either way it sounds like you are doing the right thing and letting the main dealer stamp the book but get stuff like brakes done elsewhere.

    It does seem like you’ve encountered a service rep who either didn’t check the history or alternatively is pushed by the dealer to up sell


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    #11
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    I even think some of those intervals are too long. I don't mind what dealers say, an older diesel definitely needs the oil done every 10,000km.

    I have my Range Rover serviced at a specialist, LR originally advised 25,000km 'long life' oil changes. As its gotten on in years I generally alternate between oil and a full oil and filter service every 10,000km , so basically the oil (and oil filter because they're 15 quid) is every 10,000km and the air/fuel/cabin filter every 20,000km. I put 30,000km a year on the car and It works perfectly fine and the cost isn't too much, usually about 1000 a year in servicing which on a car like that isn't mad money.


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    #12
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    If that's how you honestly feel then you should be reporting to him and not vice versa.

    Unfortunately, this is the type of thing thst gets main dealers into scenarios like this.

    I wouldn't say i have all the answers, i dont. That being said, you do unfortunately need a general tech in a main dealer to be somewhat robotised or standardised. When it comes to routine service work you need consistency in convictions. The manufacturer gives you your criteria and if you stick rigidly to it, IMO, you are generally golden.

    If it's on the list to be replaced then do it, if it's not then dont. If they say the air filter will do 90k under normal conditions in our climate, then it will. Some soiling doesnt make it unuseable or not fit for purpose, it is there to filter, if there's material in it, it's just working.

    That being said, if it's a qualified mechanics opinion that the filter needs to be replaced. Who becomes right and who wrong? Me? The tech? The brand? The customer? That same dilligence is rewarded and praised in independent workshops.

    My own opinion is if we are in a main dealer, we must stick with the brands guidelines in terms of replacement intervals. We are the sign over the door, they set the criteria and we apply it. We back them, you back us and the idea is then if something does go wrong it'll be stood over. Unless there is an exceptional local reason not to like a specific customer request to renew more frequently or the car is working in extreme conditions etc.

    It's just an example of how these things decend. It's easy to see how some outfits can descent into anarchy.


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    #13
    E30M3
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭E30M3


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I even think some of those intervals are too long. I don't mind what dealers say, an older diesel definitely needs the oil done every 10,000km.

    I have my Range Rover serviced at a specialist, LR originally advised 25,000km 'long life' oil changes. As its gotten on in years I generally alternate between oil and a full oil and filter service every 10,000km , so basically the oil (and oil filter because they're 15 quid) is every 10,000km and the air/fuel/cabin filter every 20,000km. I put 30,000km a year on the car and It works perfectly fine and the cost isn't too much, usually about 1000 a year in servicing which on a car like that isn't mad money.

    I've no issue re oil change every 15k klms and understand you pay premium prices in a dealership for necessary work. My concern is being asked to pay premium prices for what appears to be unnecessary work or overkill. I expected to pay for an interim service, oil and oil filter and check over at 105 k klms after a 'full' service at 90k 9 months ago. But when the recommendations came back I was surprised and hence my query. Car is 4 years old, I bought new and serviced on the button meticiously.


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    #14
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    E30M3 wrote: »
    I've no issue re oil change every 15k klms and understand you pay premium prices in a dealership for necessary work. My concern is being asked to pay premium prices for what appears to be unnecessary work or overkill. I expected to pay for an interim service, oil and oil filter and check over at 105 k klms after a 'full' service at 90k 9 months ago. But when the recommendations came back I was surprised and hence my query. Car is 4 years old, I bought new and serviced on the button meticiously.

    After 4 years and over 100k km the brake fluid and possibly even differential fluid would almost certainly need doing in any car.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    After 4 years and over 100k km the brake fluid and possibly even differential fluid would almost certainly need doing in any car.

    You’d think it would have been needed after 2 years, but that was probably within the fixed pricing.


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    #16
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,538 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    If you've never changed the brake disks before then that's not unreasonable to come up as work that should be done either, as I found out a few months back.


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    #17
    Amouar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Amouar


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    My own opinion is if we are in a main dealer, we must stick with the brands guidelines in terms of replacement intervals. We are the sign over the door, they set the criteria and we apply it. We back them, you back us and the idea is then if something does go wrong it'll be stood over. Unless there is an exceptional local reason not to like a specific customer request to renew more frequently or the car is working in extreme conditions etc.
    .

    Do you know why main dealers alternate between minor and major service every year even for low mileage cars while a fuel and air filter would only need to be replaced every 4 years ( or 37,000 miles) as per the car's manufacturer (Peugeot in my case)?


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    #18
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    My own opinion is they need a system that is relatively standardised and easy to understand for customer and workshop and that suits most users and applications and if you fall outside of it, it's somewhat tough luck, in a technical way. The menu will never suit everyone but could be proven to work well for most.


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    #19
    E30M3
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭E30M3


    awec wrote: »
    If you've never changed the brake disks before then that's not unreasonable to come up as work that should be done either, as I found out a few months back.

    Fully accept this and that's why I booked into an Indy to do this next Monday or advise me differently. Had the Brake Discs and Pads and Fluid been recommended without the other bits I probably would have said fire ahead but my antenna was up when I saw the other recommendations.


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    #20
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Find a good independent service garage and a good independent tyre place and you'll never go wrong.

    I'm in Kildare and use PLR in Ladytown / Toughers and Fair Deal Tyres in same business park and they are both as decent and honest as you can get.

    That they both have a huge number of regulars is also a good sign.

    Most cars are simple enough to do service and warranty cannot hold you to dealer service (eu ruled on that years ago)


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You’re tied up early days though because of warranty.


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    #22
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    awec wrote: »
    If you've never changed the brake disks before then that's not unreasonable to come up as work that should be done either, as I found out a few months back.

    Wouldn't that be an "it depends item "
    My girlfriend's hyundai horses through brake discs ,my dad's 15 year old van is on only its second set of pads let alone the discs ...

    I get that fluids can break down with time ,so that's a sensible enough policy ...rubber hoses and bushings to some extent as well , but a lot of other things depend on driving style and conditions

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #23
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,661 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I smell BMW here. Expensive servicing (labour particularly) and they never miss an opportunity to load it on. Highly priced but frequently low quality cars and parts with substandard reliability thrown in.

    I'd go with a good indy if you can maintain the warranty (as you may well need it).








    p.s. Some BMW's are tremendous drivers cars.


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    #24
    Amouar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Amouar


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    I'd go with a good indy if you can maintain the warranty (as you may well need it).

    How to find a good indy? This is the main reason why i choose to go to Main dealers for service as I don't really know how to find a trusted indy who will use good quality parts.


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    #25
    Casati
    Registered Users Posts: 3,022 ✭✭✭Casati


    Amouar wrote: »
    How to find a good indy? This is the main reason why i choose to go to Main dealers for service as I don't really know how to find a trusted indy who will use good quality parts.

    I’m not sure that Indy’s are in general that much cheaper anyway and I’ll use main dealers. Also advantage of potential goodwill for cars like the OP’s not that long out of warranty. Eg I got window motors replaced with 75% discount on a 5 year old Megane because I had a full service history even though the car only had 2 year warranty. Same happened with repair to gearbox on a Skoda a year outside of warranty


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    #26
    NBar
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭NBar


    As has been said previously they just follow the major every 2 years and interim in-between and don't look at anything to see if ok etc just bin and replace regardless and then there's the windscreen washer fluid top up but don't leave the remainder of the bottle in your car rip of scam. Customer service loyalty is well and truly gone as its all about maximum profit and screw the customer


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    #27
    Amouar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Amouar


    NBar wrote: »
    then there's the windscreen washer fluid top up but don't leave the remainder of the bottle in your car rip of scam.

    I noticed this the last time i did the service in the main dealer. I fully topped up my windscreen washer fluid a day before the service, yet i was charged 2 Euros for windscreen washer fluid top up, even though they probably only used a few mls as the it was already full.


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    #28
    Water2626262
    Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭Water2626262


    Amouar wrote: »
    I noticed this the last time i did the service in the main dealer. I fully topped up my windscreen washer fluid a day before the service, yet i was charged 2 Euros for windscreen washer fluid top up, even though they probably only used a few mls as the it was already full.

    I got the same with adblue. Put 15 litres in about two weeks previous. Wanted to charge me 30 or 40 quid to refill. Told them I’d only filled the tank. “Oh sorry sir, we can just tell that you used some adblue, we aren’t able to tell how much is left in the tank...”

    Why have it on the checklist then???


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    #29
    CoBo55
    Registered Users Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    I got the adblue sting too, €9 for 5 litres it's 60c a litre up the road at the pump. It was a prepaid service and the adblue was the only thing they could nab me on...


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    #30
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I had a main dealer ask for a brake fluid replace when at the previous service 15,000km and 6 months earlier the brake fluid had been replaced. The manufacturer guidance is every 2 years.

    It may be human error, asking you if you want "the brakes done" , or upselling, but I don't trust any dealer and routine servicing quotes can vary a lot. For example gearbox oil change from 2 main VW dealers had 50 euro price difference on quote for exact same thing. One may have included a free wash...


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    #31
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    E30M3 wrote: »
    I have a 4 year old car that has a 7 year or 150,000 klms warranty.
    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    I smell BMW here.

    I'd say your sense of smell is a good bit off there Henry :pac:

    Sounds Kia like to me.

    OP - what is on the service schedule in the manual for the service it's due? Might be due what the dealer suggested, but realistically it's probably the service advisor upselling.

    If that's the case, the service advisor has probably been told to do that, and may well get commission on it. Happens in all walks of life - not a shakedown necessarily - ever been offered the additional insurance with car hire, or fries with your burger?


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