Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Penfailed · 17-08-2020 10:50AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

How can people still take the restrictions seriously? Brainwashed sheep, ignorant and utterly devoid of a brain is how I see those who swallow the narrative of the government.

Eh? How can someone be brainwashed if they don't have a brain? I think you need to rethink your put downs.

Assetbacked · 17-08-2020 10:52AM

Penfailed wrote: »

Eh? How can someone be brainwashed if they don't have a brain? I think you need to rethink your put downs.

First it was washed and then it was extracted.

Penfailed · 17-08-2020 11:00AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’m sick and tired of Dr Gabriel Scally thinking he has a say in what we do here in Ireland&his incessant pursuing of a ‘zero Covid Island’ here. Why is the Independent giving him so much airtime? Where is the balance? Why are the media always pushing on hysteria and negativity regarding this virus. I want the facts - how many are dying & how many are in hospital. How many are only asymptomatic or mild currently...where are the journalists covering this??
I will not accept further restrictions again, with its enormous societal & economic cost, nor will I accept Ireland being plunged into an economic depression and for what...

Why are you asking these questions on here? Have you asked any journalists?
"I will not accept further restrictions again"...? Which restrictions will you not accept? What will you do instead? You might not have a choice either way.
"I will not accept Ireland being plunged into an economic depression..." You don't have a choice in that one I'm afraid. That's like saying, "I will not accept it getting dark when the sun goes down."

The Unbearables · 17-08-2020 11:06AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I think it's pretty clear at this stage that the government are losing public support for restrictions at this stage. In March support seemed near universal, that's nowhere near the case now. The number of people disagreeing with elements of restrictions on both this thread and the main Covid thread seems to be increasing by the day.

For me, frustration started when homeware stores had to stay closed while horse racing was allowed to restart. I had been looking forward to getting myself a proper desk having already been working from home for a fair while with less than ideal equipment. To hear ministers joking about curtains not being essential was infuriating as it completely missed the point and reeked of hypocrisy. My frustration has been compounded by the lack of action on the meat factories. Government were warned about these months ago, yet no steps were taken - not even something simple like inspections. It's so frustrating that restrictions for many people and businesses are staying in place while places that are linked to the recent outbreaks are given a much lighter touch. It's obvious at this stage that some decisions are being made based on who has the best connections with government rather than what is in the best interests of public health. And now there's talk of further restrictions coming back?

To be clear, I'm not advocating for throwing caution to the wind and letting the virus run rampant, but at the same time I'm not going to be paying any heed to nonsense restrictions put in place while the actual causes of the virus resurgence are ignored. I'm still limiting nonessential travel, I wear a mask when in shops and make a reasonable effort to keep my distance. I won't be putting off any future visits to my parents outside my county though, and I certainly won't be made feel guilty over staying in a pub for more than 105 minutes if I decide to visit one.

Then don't complain when the virus runs rampant this winter. Fair enough?

screamer · 17-08-2020 11:12AM

Diabhalta wrote: »

Mental health issues rise in Cork due to Covid-19 pandemic
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Mental-health-issues-rise-in-Cork-due-to-Covid-19-pandemic-dbcdb1c2-6a62-4fc5-b980-d8cede4165c8-ds

...it's not the pandemic's fault, it's the media overreporting on covid, it's the constantly deeply concerned government officials. It's the amount of information that's in the media. It's all the measures, the limitations... not the sickness. Everywhere you go it's in your face. You go to a shop and there's a person in hi viz jacket pointing at a hand sanitizer (that's antibacterial, not antiviral btw.).

This is what drives people crazy. Hysteria, for like 6 months now. It's a ticking bomb, hopefully it will explode and we'll see thousands of people in the streets protesting against all this garbage.

If that be the case, it’s people’s own reaction to it that’s the problem, not the media. The virus is with us to stay, and people need to learn to accept that and build some coping skills and mechanisms If they’re that deeply affected by media reports.
The restrictions are indeed tough to accept, but you know it’s again, something we all have to adapt to. Human existence is based on adaptation. For people unable to deal with the restrictions I hate to think how they’d deal with a dose of covid. We have to be resilient and accept these new rules and restrictions until things improve.

17-08-2020 11:30AM

screamer wrote: »

If that be the case, it’s people’s own reaction to it that’s the problem, not the media. The virus is with us to stay, and people need to learn to accept that and build some coping skills and mechanisms If they’re that deeply affected by media reports.
The restrictions are indeed tough to accept, but you know it’s again, something we all have to adapt to. Human existence is based on adaptation. For people unable to deal with the restrictions I hate to think how they’d deal with a dose of covid. We have to be resilient and accept these new rules and restrictions until things improve.

Most likely would be asymptomatic or very mildly ill.

MickeyLeari · 17-08-2020 11:36AM

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html?referringSource=articleShare

The pandemic will end only when enough people are protected against the coronavirus, whether by a vaccine or by already having been infected. Reaching this threshold, known as herd immunity, doesn’t mean the virus will disappear. But with fewer hosts to infect, it will make its way through a community much more slowly.

In the early days of the crisis, scientists estimated that perhaps 70 percent of the population would need to be immune in this way to be free from large outbreaks. But over the past few weeks, more than a dozen scientists told me they now felt comfortable saying that herd immunity probably lies from 45 percent to 50 percent.

If they’re right, then we may be a lot closer to turning back this virus than we initially thought.

It may also mean that pockets of New York City, London, Mumbai and other cities may already have reached the threshold, and may be spared a devastating second wave.

The initial calculations into herd immunity assumed that everyone in a community was equally susceptible to the virus and mixed randomly with everyone else.

The new estimates are the product of more sophisticated statistical modeling. When scientists factor in variations in density, demographics and socialization patterns, the estimated threshold for herd immunity falls.

In some clinics in hard-hit Brooklyn neighborhoods, up to 80 percent of people who were tested at the beginning of the summer had antibodies for the virus. Over the past eight weeks, fewer than 1 percent of people tested at those same neighborhood clinics have had the virus.

Likewise in Mumbai, a randomized household survey found that about 57 percent of people who live in the poorest areas and share toilets had antibodies, compared with just 11 percent elsewhere in the city.

It’s too early to say with certainty that those communities have reached herd immunity. We don’t know, for example, how long someone who was infected stays protected from the coronavirus. But the data suggests that the virus may move more slowly in those areas the next time around.

17-08-2020 11:45AM

The over reaction to this thing would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't so serious!

We had people predicting doomsday back in Jan/Feb. Boards had its own HSE consultant telling us that at least 40 a day would be dying in Ireland and we could have up to 100000 deaths. Hospitals were going to be overwhelmed quickly with doctors been forced to play God and make cruel decisions.

The actual reality is that 1774 died with Covid. And that number is way overstated. And we can't be sure how many actually died OF Covid.
The hospitals were never overwhelmed and actually very quiet at the moment.
The worldwide figures are still considerably less than 1M deaths.

We could have lifted every restriction in May and we would have been grand. The most important thing is protecting the nursing homes and getting control of the factories.

Of course, the media will jump at any chance to paint a bad picture of pubs or tourist locations etc. But I don't see anybody on RTE investigating the nursing homes or meat factories... Curious?

I imagine FF and FG will be destroyed when the economic picture starts to become clearer. And more people will question why we allowed this to happen in the first place for an illness with such a small death rate.

John O.Groats · 17-08-2020 12:00PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why? What in my post suggests that I'm going to do anything that will cause the virus to run rampant or that I'm advocating for people to do so?

What is this part of your post that I bolded supposed to mean other than that then?

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I think it's pretty clear at this stage that the government are losing public support for restrictions at this stage. In March support seemed near universal, that's nowhere near the case now. The number of people disagreeing with elements of restrictions on both this thread and the main Covid thread seems to be increasing by the day.

For me, frustration started when homeware stores had to stay closed while horse racing was allowed to restart. I had been looking forward to getting myself a proper desk having already been working from home for a fair while with less than ideal equipment. To hear ministers joking about curtains not being essential was infuriating as it completely missed the point and reeked of hypocrisy. My frustration has been compounded by the lack of action on the meat factories. Government were warned about these months ago, yet no steps were taken - not even something simple like inspections. It's so frustrating that restrictions for many people and businesses are staying in place while places that are linked to the recent outbreaks are given a much lighter touch. It's obvious at this stage that some decisions are being made based on who has the best connections with government rather than what is in the best interests of public health. And now there's talk of further restrictions coming back?

To be clear, I'm not advocating for throwing caution to the wind and letting the virus run rampant, but at the same time I'm not going to be paying any heed to nonsense restrictions put in place while the actual causes of the virus resurgence are ignored. I'm still limiting nonessential travel, I wear a mask when in shops and make a reasonable effort to keep my distance. I won't be putting off any future visits to my parents outside my county though, and I certainly won't be made feel guilty over staying in a pub for more than 105 minutes if I decide to visit one.

s1ippy · 17-08-2020 12:06PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

First it was washed and then it was extracted.

I heard dirty brain is a symptom of covid, you should contact GP for test.

growleaves · 17-08-2020 12:07PM

For me, frustration started when homeware stores had to stay closed while horse racing was allowed to restart. I had been looking forward to getting myself a proper desk having already been working from home for a fair while with less than ideal equipment. To hear ministers joking about curtains not being essential was infuriating as it completely missed the point and reeked of hypocrisy. My frustration has been compounded by the lack of action on the meat factories.

The incoherence and inconsistency of the restrictions seem to be the number one thing to turn Joe Hand-Soap against them.

growleaves · 17-08-2020 12:07PM

Corona Zero sounds like a non-alcoholic beer.

lucernarian · 17-08-2020 12:35PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I think it's pretty clear at this stage that the government are losing public support for restrictions at this stage. In March support seemed near universal, that's nowhere near the case now. The number of people disagreeing with elements of restrictions on both this thread and the main Covid thread seems to be increasing by the day.

For me, frustration started when homeware stores had to stay closed while horse racing was allowed to restart. I had been looking forward to getting myself a proper desk having already been working from home for a fair while with less than ideal equipment. To hear ministers joking about curtains not being essential was infuriating as it completely missed the point and reeked of hypocrisy. My frustration has been compounded by the lack of action on the meat factories. Government were warned about these months ago, yet no steps were taken - not even something simple like inspections. It's so frustrating that restrictions for many people and businesses are staying in place while places that are linked to the recent outbreaks are given a much lighter touch. It's obvious at this stage that some decisions are being made based on who has the best connections with government rather than what is in the best interests of public health. And now there's talk of further restrictions coming back?

To be clear, I'm not advocating for throwing caution to the wind and letting the virus run rampant, but at the same time I'm not going to be paying any heed to nonsense restrictions put in place while the actual causes of the virus resurgence are ignored. I'm still limiting nonessential travel, I wear a mask when in shops and make a reasonable effort to keep my distance. I won't be putting off any future visits to my parents outside my county though, and I certainly won't be made feel guilty over staying in a pub for more than 105 minutes if I decide to visit one.

I see that some of the restrictions are nonsensical, but we've reached a point where eating inside premises or fake pub "restaurants" simply have to stop again. Given the appetite for restrictions is fading, this is showing how a covid-free island was the strategy that should have been adopted in this country, and still can be.

Assetbacked · 17-08-2020 12:46PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I heard dirty brain is a symptom of covid, you should contact GP for test.

They even pay for your test I understand, to encourage those numbers to go up.

Assetbacked · 17-08-2020 12:50PM

Has anyone else noticed the Journal comments and Facebook comments under covid news articles with their accompanying likes now being overwhelmingly in favour of calling out the restrictions and outlining that new cases is not resulting in increased hospitalisations and deaths etc?

Before, maybe a few months ago, it felt like the tide of online social media group think was dogmatically in favour of whatever comment said "RIP" or outlined how awful the virus is whereas in recent weeks it seems to me that the negative commenters are getting outnumbered significantly by those voicing displeasure with the restrictions and the response to covid.

The Unbearables · 17-08-2020 12:54PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed the Journal comments and Facebook comments under covid news articles with their accompanying likes now being overwhelmingly in favour of calling out the restrictions and outlining that new cases is not resulting in increased hospitalisations and deaths etc?

Before, maybe a few months ago, it felt like the tide of online social media group think was dogmatically in favour of whatever comment said "RIP" or outlined how awful the virus is whereas in recent weeks it seems to me that the negative commenters are getting outnumbered significantly by those voicing displeasure with the restrictions and the response to covid.

No.

risteard7 · 17-08-2020 01:21PM

I see the queueing outside shops has magically started up again. I'm just after leaving a shopping centre, so instead of letting people into the shop to get what they want & leave you have to stand & wait in a queue of about 20 people, all I'd say no more than 1/2 a metre apart each.

So my biggest chance of catching Covid was in one of those queue's. Laughable really.

Captain_Crash · 17-08-2020 01:24PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed the Journal comments and Facebook comments under covid news articles with their accompanying likes now being overwhelmingly in favour of calling out the restrictions and outlining that new cases is not resulting in increased hospitalisations and deaths etc?

The Unbearables wrote: »

No.

I'm only on Twitter so cant speak for facebook or the journal etc... but from Twitter, yes Ive noticed this in the past few weeks.

I saw a post yesterday about the Berlin Bar party and there was the normal "lock em up" posts but the vast majority of them were people taking the piss, which wasn't the case weeks ago.

Also with the Guards putting up checkpoints on county borders recently most people were scathing of them, whereas a number of months ago there was a lot of supporting comments on posts they had put up of checkpoints enforcing the 2km rule.

MickeyLeari · 17-08-2020 01:32PM

lucernarian wrote: »

I see that some of the restrictions are nonsensical, but we've reached a point where eating inside premises or fake pub "restaurants" simply have to stop again. Given the appetite for restrictions is fading, this is showing how a covid-free island was the strategy that should have been adopted in this country, and still can be.

Where is the evidence that food premises which have proper controls are a cause of transmission of the virus?

average_runner · 17-08-2020 02:02PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Where is the evidence that food premises which have proper controls are a cause of transmission of the virus?

Exactly. We need to be proactive and not reactive.

So we need to look at where the virus is coming from and stop these situations. Lockdown solves nothing if the virus isn't going a way.

I would happily allow pubs to open and extend their hours if it means less house parties.

Meat factories need to rethink their housing plan.

lucernarian · 17-08-2020 02:03PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Where is the evidence that food premises which have proper controls are a cause of transmission of the virus?

For one, I listened to an interview with a statistician from Nuffield College, Oxford UK who worked on a "reliable as possible" method to track actual dates of infection during covid-19 in March. The specific moment where new infections started to lower (i.e. R0 of less than 1) happened the day after all pubs and restaurants were closed indoors in the UK. He highlighted this as a particularly interesting finding. Although this is only empirical as far as causative relationships go, unfortunately the science of SARS-CoV-2 is really in its infancy and airborne transmission can't be ruled in or out yet. Worth pointing out that the current situation with 200 cases and particular clusters makes "R0" a bit less useful but it's still worth considering.

The events in Berlin D2 that have been widely publicised probably draw more attention to the fact that people under the influence just aren't able to indefinitely stick to the social distancing. The South Korea renewed outbreak involving a super spreader, showed that transmission can happen with even brief close contacts.

MickeyLeari · 17-08-2020 02:08PM

lucernarian wrote: »

For one, I listened to an interview with a statistician from Nuffield College, Oxford UK who worked on a "reliable as possible" method to track actual dates of infection during covid-19 in March. The specific moment where new infections started to lower (i.e. R0 of less than 1) happened the day after all pubs and restaurants were closed indoors in the UK. He highlighted this as a particularly interesting finding. Although this is only empirical as far as causative relationships go, unfortunately the science of SARS-CoV-2 is really in its infancy and airborne transmission can't be ruled in or out yet. Worth pointing out that the current situation with 200 cases and particular clusters makes "R0" a bit less useful but it's still worth considering.

The events in Berlin D2 that have been widely publicised probably draw more attention to the fact that people under the influence just aren't able to indefinitely stick to the social distancing. The South Korea renewed outbreak involving a super spreader, showed that transmission can happen with even brief close contacts.

Things have changed since March in restaurants and food pubs. You don’t need to close down businesses who are acting responsibly. Berlin Bar is an outlier.

The South Korean example was in packed nightclubs (not a socially distanced establishment) and had extenuating circumstances.

rob316 · 17-08-2020 02:08PM

The staff involved in that Berlin D2 incident are getting death threats. Ridiculous like, what a bunch of sheep this country has.

average_runner · 17-08-2020 02:08PM

lucernarian wrote: »

For one, I listened to an interview with a statistician from Nuffield College, Oxford UK who worked on a "reliable as possible" method to track actual dates of infection during covid-19 in March. The specific moment where new infections started to lower (i.e. R0 of less than 1) happened the day after all pubs and restaurants were closed indoors in the UK. He highlighted this as a particularly interesting finding. Although this is only empirical as far as causative relationships go, unfortunately the science of SARS-CoV-2 is really in its infancy and airborne transmission can't be ruled in or out yet. Worth pointing out that the current situation with 200 cases and particular clusters makes "R0" a bit less useful but it's still worth considering.

The events in Berlin D2 that have been widely publicised probably draw more attention to the fact that people under the influence just aren't able to indefinitely stick to the social distancing. The South Korea renewed outbreak involving a super spreader, showed that transmission can happen with even brief close contacts.

And then uk opened their pubs and restaurants with social distancing and their numbers kept falling, explain that part?

Numbers increasing now hut not in all areas of the country, but pubs opened for a good while now

brisan · 17-08-2020 02:10PM

lucernarian wrote: »

For one, I listened to an interview with a statistician from Nuffield College, Oxford UK who worked on a "reliable as possible" method to track actual dates of infection during covid-19 in March. The specific moment where new infections started to lower (i.e. R0 of less than 1) happened the day after all pubs and restaurants were closed indoors in the UK. He highlighted this as a particularly interesting finding. Although this is only empirical as far as causative relationships go, unfortunately the science of SARS-CoV-2 is really in its infancy and airborne transmission can't be ruled in or out yet. Worth pointing out that the current situation with 200 cases and particular clusters makes "R0" a bit less useful but it's still worth considering.

The events in Berlin D2 that have been widely publicised probably draw more attention to the fact that people under the influence just aren't able to indefinitely stick to the social distancing. The South Korea renewed outbreak involving a super spreader, showed that transmission can happen with even brief close contacts.

Judging by the comments of the acting CMO over the weekend I think it’s inevitable that further restrictions will be imposed in the next few days.
These will undoubtedly be around pubs / restaurants as he said that when people were allowed to socialise then infection rates rose again.
A pity because practically all the premises I visited here and in Killarney last week were operated very responsibly
A few bad eggs will spoil it for the rest of us.

ixoy · 17-08-2020 02:16PM

brisan wrote: »

A pity because practically all the premises I visited here and in Killarney last week were operated very responsibly

Well that'd make my holiday fun - getting the local chippers delivered to the B & B...

lucernarian · 17-08-2020 02:40PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Things have changed since March in restaurants and food pubs. You don’t need to close down businesses who are acting responsibly. Berlin Bar is an outlier.

The South Korean example was in packed nightclubs (not a socially distanced establishment) and had extenuating circumstances.

The number of primary cases from the one guy is not what comes about from spending time with the same group of friends for the night. Brief periods in packed indoor venues is enough. And for our context, everyone can be seated apart for most of a night, but if they all go to the "outdoors" area and crowd around a table for s smoke or chat, it's gonna lead to exposure either way.

The renewal of spread in Auckland, NZ involved regular businesses and cafes where people were acting responsibly. It's probably a better example of the inherent risk of those venues. And in NZ they are testing staff treated as "casual contacts" of the renewed outbreak at various cafes and restaurants (see https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356127)

17-08-2020 02:48PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed the Journal comments and Facebook comments under covid news articles with their accompanying likes now being overwhelmingly in favour of calling out the restrictions and outlining that new cases is not resulting in increased hospitalisations and deaths etc?

Before, maybe a few months ago, it felt like the tide of online social media group think was dogmatically in favour of whatever comment said "RIP" or outlined how awful the virus is whereas in recent weeks it seems to me that the negative commenters are getting outnumbered significantly by those voicing displeasure with the restrictions and the response to covid.

Yeah the tide is definitely starting to turn alright.

I remember this thread back in May, people thought we were crazy for suggesting that lockdown should end.

Our refusal to move to phase 4 and the decision to lockdown counties again because of some clusters has had very little public support.

The failures in the nursing homes, the meat factories and allowing flights in from the USA has contributed as well. Also the overstating of the deaths is a pretty big issue. This government have failed us big time. That will become even more apparent in the months to come.

Mainly though, I think people are just starting to open their eyes that bit more. We know that there are very few deaths or even hospitalizations over the last 2 or 3 months.

For now, the people are still just about onside. That will continue to change though. I think trouble breaking out is inevitable at some point.

lucernarian · 17-08-2020 02:49PM

average_runner wrote: »

And then uk opened their pubs and restaurants with social distancing and their numbers kept falling, explain that part?

Numbers increasing now hut not in all areas of the country, but pubs opened for a good while now

Luck is unfortunately a factor. Australia is a good example of this. There were no real differences in the approach of NSW and Victoria authorities, but a quarantine facility infection that came about from some sorta-forgiveable lapses by hotel management led to not one but 2 super spreader events. NSW meanwhile has been able to stay on top of community spread.

But I just want whatever is known to be effective to be carried out. If that means having the gardai targeting house parties more, even turning more of a blind eye to outside drinking (as it's inherently safer).

Too much attention is being paid to meat processing plants and their behaviour etc. It's happened repeatedly across so many countries, and NZ and Aussie authorities are researching the covid cases at the sister plant in Victoria of the cold storage company in NZ that is potentially the source of the Auckland outbreak. If the genome sequences closely match, and no travel took place with any employees, it would be a shocking development and might lead to the meat industry as a whole having to make changes radically quickly. But that's another discussion.

Idbatterim · 17-08-2020 02:50PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Just wait until the Marxists get into power after the next election. A couple of budgets of tax hikes and service cuts and SF and their fellow travelers will sieze power.

We'll see how long the large FDIs will hang around then.

The country's on a knife edge. A banana republic without the sunshine is a real possibility.

God help the young people who will inherit this mess and this debt.

It's been appalling handled by a bunch of cowards who would rather flush out futures away than be labeled granny killers on social media.

Brilliant post! Those coward rats, have further fcuked over the young and youngish... already paying back one bust for their lifetime. Now another. Rip off property prices to send up to chain, that benefits the rich and the older generations. Fcuking disgrace! Roll on the backlash to all this!

# OLDLIVESMATTER #YOUNGLIVESDONT

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings