DCU or DCTC psychotherapy MSc?

orion_42 · 19-07-2020 10:59am #1

Hi all,

Can someone please advise me on which of these two psychotherapy trainings is most recommended: the MSc in Psychotherapy in DCU (IACP) or the MSc in Counselling and Psychotherapy in Dublin Counselling and Therapy Centre, Gardiner Street (IAHIP)?

I read through all the previous posts about psychotherapy training and can see there is a wealth of experience and information on boards.ie about this topic. I would really appreciate some advice as both seem like great trainings, but quite different.

I am looking for an integrative training that is deeply experiential in focus, rather than one that is overly academic and theoretical. I want to make sure I am turned upside down and inside out to become a really good therapist!

celbridge74 · 20-07-2020 5:51pm

I didn't do either of the courses (did Turning Point instead which is very experiential). However, from what I've heard of the two courses you mention DCTC in Gardiner St is much more experiential than DCU. DCTC has been around for years and has an excellent reputation.

orion_42 · 22-07-2020 11:28am

Thanks for this advice celbridge74 - it helps alot!

djan · 22-07-2020 11:33am

Would you consider the master's in ICHAS here: http://ichas.ie/course/m-a-in-counselling-psychotherapy/

owenlynch1310 · 24-07-2020 2:37pm

Hi,

I was also looking at the DCTC course and the turning point course. I am finding it a bit confusing and not really sure which accreditation is better. Did you make a decision in the end?

celbridge74 · 24-07-2020 7:45pm

IAHIP as an organisation of the Irish Council for Psychotherapy follows the standards required for the European Certificate of Psychotherapy so would have higher standards than IACP. 4 year Level 9 courses with 250 hours of personal therapy (combination of group and individual), 500 hours of clinical practice etc.

DCU is a level 9 course so assume they mustn’t have met the other criteria as they are accredited only by IACP. Both DCTC and Turning Point are accredited by IAHIP. Turning Point is also accredited by IACP but DCTC no longer is. That wouldn’t stop you being accredited with IACP as you can apply with a non accredited course once it meets the criteria. The previous DCTC diploma course which is now a masters was - so assume DCTC doesn’t want to pay the fee for course accreditation.

Hopefully statutory regulation will be in place by the time you graduate so everyone will be registered by CORU instead- which fingers crossed will make things much clearer!

Assumequote="owenlynch1310;114124233"]Hi,

I was also looking at the DCTC course and the turning point course. I am finding it a bit confusing and not really sure which accreditation is better. Did you make a decision in the end?[/quote]

owenlynch1310 · 27-07-2020 9:38am

Great! thanks for the info. So I have pretty much narrowed it down to either turning point, DCTC or DBS. To be honest a lot of people recommend the turning point one the only thing turning me off it is that it works out a good bit more expensive. I was wondering how you. are finding the course? would you recommend it?

endacl · 27-07-2020 9:42am

djan wrote: »

Would you consider the master's in ICHAS here: http://ichas.ie/course/m-a-in-counselling-psychotherapy/

Until CORU arrives for the field, no professional body provides accreditation for that course. ICHAS have, since they set it up, very skilfully just-about-avoided saying that.

celbridge74 · 28-07-2020 7:54pm

I finished Turning Point a few years ago and really loved it. The fact it was taught one weekend a month rather than weekly attendance made it more manageable for me than the others. However the three you’ve mentioned are very good and are all IAHIP accredited. See which still have vacancies for the autumn and go with your gut. Best of luck!

owenlynch1310 wrote: »

Great! thanks for the info. So I have pretty much narrowed it down to either turning point, DCTC or DBS. To be honest a lot of people recommend the turning point one the only thing turning me off it is that it works out a good bit more expensive. I was wondering how you. are finding the course? would you recommend it?

CBear1993 · 30-07-2020 9:46am

Doesn’t PCI do part time options like 2 evenings a week also? Not sure what their reputation is like

Also Griffith college in Dublin do a Counselling and psychotherapy course 2 days per week for 3 years

CBear1993 · 31-07-2020 9:45am

celbridge74 wrote: »

I finished Turning Point a few years ago and really loved it. The fact it was taught one weekend a month rather than weekly attendance made it more manageable for me than the others. However the three you’ve mentioned are very good and are all IAHIP accredited. See which still have vacancies for the autumn and go with your gut. Best of luck!

Hi, I see it’s one weekend per month, was yours a Friday 1:30-8, then sat & sun 10-6?

Would be tough going!

I’m looking at PCI which has a Saturday option and a Wednesday option. The Wednesday is 2-8pm 5 weeks on and a week off.

celbridge74 · 31-07-2020 9:52am

PCI has a good reputation too. I just wanted a Masters Level course. Also for me the weekend once a month worked. It was intense while in but then didn’t have another one til next month. With my family young at the time it just fitted in better for me time wise.

CBear1993 wrote: »

Hi, I see it’s one weekend per month, was yours a Friday 1:30-8, then sat & sun 10-6?

Would be tough going!

I’m looking at PCI which has a Saturday option and a Wednesday option. The Wednesday is 2-8pm 5 weeks on and a week off.

CBear1993 · 31-07-2020 10:01am

Great to hear, are you practicing now? Once you finished, did you have to do a year or two as a trainee before you could go out on your own?

I am looking at PCI very strongly. I think they only require you to do 50 hrs personal therapy

celbridge74 · 31-07-2020 1:27pm

Yes I’m practicing now. It takes a year or two after training to build up enough hours for accreditation but I was able to get paid work at that time as well as keeping up my voluntary placement after graduation. I had to do 140 hours therapy hours during the course to meet IAHIP requirements but don’t regret having to do them at all even with the cost and found them really beneficial. Best of luck with your decision!

CBear1993 wrote: »

Great to hear, are you practicing now? Once you finished, did you have to do a year or two as a trainee before you could go out on your own?

I am looking at PCI very strongly. I think they only require you to do 50 hrs personal therapy

SuperRabbit · 31-07-2020 6:01pm

The DBS / PCI / IICP masters all require an undergrad qualification in counselling, if that helps narrow it down

Aron722 · 31-07-2020 7:13pm

What is the salary for a psychotherapist , looked online and seems very low 38k -40k must be wrong I know if you own your own practice would be much higher once you can get the business,

Few few people go on to open up on there own though

SuperRabbit · 01-08-2020 12:29pm

That sounds right Aron, it sounds quite high even.

Look at the hours for the job being advertised as well and take that into account.

Bear in mind I'm still just a student so I could be wildly inaccurate about some of this: The person who gets that job will probably have a masters and lots of experience, this allows them to also teach part time at a local private collage, subsidising their income.

owenlynch1310 · 04-08-2020 7:18pm

I am thinking of doing either the master at DCTC or the conversion course with DBS and masters in psychotherapy. They are both IAHIP accredited. I was siding with DBS just because they seem to provide a lot more info on the course. Anyone know anything about the DBS course?

SuperRabbit · 11-08-2020 2:28pm

Sorry I can't answer your question about DBS. I have a friend who did a psychology conversion course there and said they were great but very disorganised, but I think that's universal in Irish colleges and universities? Hmmm... Another thing is DBS have more psychoanalysis (Freud, Jung, etc) modules than any of the others, so if you are really into psychoanalysis that would be a good choice!

I just came back because I wanted to mention that there aren't enough men in counselling, not by a long shot, so there are plenty clients out there for men. Obviously that doesn't mean you don't have to also be good at your job, but it does mean that getting initial sessions with people will be easy.

Something else to take into account

owenlynch1310 · 14-08-2020 4:36pm

Hi thanks so much for getting back to me. I have also been look at occupational therapy as it seems to have a more defined career path and interest me a lot. If anyone knows anything about this also? it would be great to get some info from people in the area.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 14-08-2020 6:28pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Sorry I can't answer your question about DBS. I have a friend who did a psychology conversion course there and said they were great but very disorganised, but I think that's universal in Irish colleges and universities? Hmmm... Another thing is DBS have more psychoanalysis (Freud, Jung, etc) modules than any of the others, so if you are really into psychoanalysis that would be a good choice!

I just came back because I wanted to mention that there aren't enough men in counselling, not by a long shot, so there are plenty clients out there for men. Obviously that doesn't mean you don't have to also be good at your job, but it does mean that getting initial sessions with people will be easy. Something else to take into account

I did the psychology conversion course in DBS and found it excellent. No more or less organised than any other psych department I've been affiliated with.

Anyways the psychology and counselling/psychotherapy departments in DBS seem separate, so its a moot point.

As for you OP, you could benefit from looking at what you'd LIKE to do. Why psychotherapy? Why occupational therapy? Why not anything else?

owenlynch1310 · 17-08-2020 11:08am

Hi Jimmy,

I suppose as cliche as it sounds I would like to help people. I am a people person and after a lot of back and forth trying to force myself to like a business job I have realised that it doesn't line up with my values as a person. OT sparked my interest as I was speaking to someone who works in jigsaw and they said OT has a more defined career path and it involves helping people. I am also studying to be a yoga teacher and I am quite interested in the area of yoga and trauma etc.

Freedive Ireland · 18-08-2020 10:49am

owenlynch1310 wrote: »

Hi Jimmy,
. I am also studying to be a yoga teacher and I am quite interested in the area of yoga and trauma etc.

We can say a lot of things about yoga but it isn't traumatic for everyone.:D

SuperRabbit · 29-08-2020 8:18pm

Last time I looked it was possible to do a Masters in OT in Limerick without an undergraduate in OT, an undergraduate in psychology or counselling would be considered, so you could have your cake and eat it too, assuming they don't plan to change that (all the other universities want an undergrad in OT afaik)

odonopenmic · 08-10-2020 4:51pm

I studied in Turning Point and I would not recommend it. A very negative learning environment.

From meeting various therapists - colleagues and peers - I've been most impressed with those coming out of DCTC. Highly experiential course which seems to produce very grounded, authentic and skillful practitioners. I get the impression DBS grads have a stronger CBT influence on the whole and perhaps less experiential experience and/or personal work. Obviously that's a big generalisation in both cases - just my impression from those I've come across.

SuperRabbit · 10-10-2020 12:29pm

That's interesting! From an outsider's perspective it looks like DBS is very psychoanalytic, just by looking at the number of modules they have on it. The BAs and BScs in counselling and psychotherapy ask for at least 50 hours of personal therapy while the MAs and MScs ask for at least 200. If you go the psychology route you can get away with never seeing a therapist at al!

Sallyobrien · 10-10-2020 10:09pm

odonopenmic wrote: »

I studied in Turning Point and I would not recommend it. A very negative learning environment.
.

What was negative about it, I had heard Turning Point is a very experiential type of training? What was it like finding work afterwards?

SuperRabbit · 11-10-2020 11:17am

Personally I didn't hear anything negative about the Turning Point training but what I did hear was the price on the website is much lower than the real price, which you find out at interview (called the low ball technique in social psychology) but worse than that they then increase the price again during your 4 years, when it's too late to do anything about it and you've already invested a lot in the course (low ball on steroids!). Even if you happen to be a millionaire, that's really inconsiderate of students and really disrespectful. From a place that's "humanistic" !? hmmmm! While I'm procrastinating I should make an excel comparing all these places. Maybe a nice one on google drive that people can submit edits to or something like that

odonopenmic · 12-10-2020 10:41am

Sallyobrien wrote: »

What was negative about it, I had heard Turning Point is a very experiential type of training? What was it like finding work afterwards?

For sure it is experiential and I thought this was a fantastic aspect of the course. No, the negativity was more the atmosphere. Tutors picking on students, everyone trying to play a game to pass the year(s), no transparency around grading, pass/fails. There was a real sense that you had to be careful - get on the wrong side of a tutor and irrespective of your skill you would be held back a year. So personally I found it a distraction from learning. At times it was confidence shattering.

Re finding work, no trouble with the usual caveat that you should seek accreditation to open more opportunities.

To be fair to them, re fees, I'd imagine a lot of the increases are to do with UCC capitation fees and not necessarily within Turning Point's gift to do anything about. I certainly don't think it’s as sinister as low-balling

SuperRabbit · 12-10-2020 4:36pm

Hmmm... Well I suppose maybe they just don't like updating the website, sometimes the person who builds the website first day has nothing to do with the business and no one on staff has access to it... But doesn't it look like low-balling when you only put the price of year one on the site and year one happens to be the cheapest year? I guess I shouldn't see malice when it could be more easily explained by the fact that the WordPress interface isn't the most user-friendly.

For what it's worth I never get that vibe off the lecturers at PCI, they have all been really compassionate with maybe one exception. You really get the feeling they want you to do well, that's really the atmosphere. I've only had that one lecturer who I wouldn't feel I would love to have as a personal counselor, they just all seem very caring and trustworthy and not remotely vindictive or needing to show the students who's boss and who's the most developed / differentiated / individuated. There has been that one exception, who I only saw 3 times. Sounds very similar to what you were talking about. "There's always one" as the saying goes.

If the masters vs bachelor's is an issue, you can still get a masters by going through DBS, PCI, IICP... it will cost about the same in total but will take 6 years instead of 4. I really really like the look of IICP. I love that their modules sound really practical, titles like "grief", "anxiety" rather than things like "family systems" "psychoanalysis". But I'm not a huge fan of choice theory so I am glad I'm not doing a module on that

6 to one half dozen to another I guess

Jimmy Bottlehead · 14-10-2020 9:25am

SuperRabbit wrote: »

If you go the psychology route you can get away with never seeing a therapist at al!

I don't understand this; can you explain what you mean, please?

DCU or DCTC psychotherapy MSc?

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