So are you single? Argos style....

FunLover18 · 15-08-2020 05:13PM

Tell me how wrote: »

See, I could understand how the text message might be less intrusive than doing so in the real world, and a person feeling that they were being cornered or intimidated.

The timing of the messages wasn't ideal as it would have left her wondering who was it that had texted for a couple of hours but I think the wording was pretty calm and explanatory and definitely not creepy.
I'm not saying that she didn't feel it was creepy, I can't say how she felt, but I don't think the behaviour was inherently creepy while still agreeing it was inappropriate.

And the reason that this conversation is interesting to me at this point is because it implies that how someone reacts to something is what determines whether it was creepy or not, rather than the event itself.

Say a friend told you they had a date with someone and explained that a delivery driver dropped off a package and they actually thought to themselves that he was cute and 2 hours later he texted (same texts as here) and asked her out and she said yes and was excited. If you were told that story, would you view the guy as being a creep?

The text isn't what's intrusive though, people text all the time but usually they've exchanged numbers for that purpose. The intrusive bit is that she didn't give him her number, she gave the company her number. He took her phone number without her permission and rightfully lost his job. You can't do that and his intentions are irrelevant.

Absolutely if it happened to a friend I would think he's a bit of a creep, not that he's a rapist or the creepiest creep alive but I would definitely question the character of anyone who thinks it's ok to use customer data in that way. Where do you draw the line, email? Personal address?

Like there's no argument that he had the right to do what he did. If she had reacted positively and they'd got married, is it suddenly ok for every delivery person to store the number of and text all the people they find attractive? Absolutely not.

hynesie08 · 15-08-2020 05:15PM

To clear it up, there are levels of creepy, and I would class this as a solid 3/10, doesn't mean it's not creepy though.

Church on Tuesday · 15-08-2020 05:17PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

To clear it up, there are levels of creepy, and I would class this as a solid 3/10, doesn't mean it's not creepy though.

Strange, you were more on the 9/10 side there a few pages back.

hynesie08 · 15-08-2020 05:19PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Strange, you were more on the 9/10 side there a few pages back.

No I wasn't, in fact at one point I said not rapey but creepy, do I need to include a graph for future reference?

Tell me how · 15-08-2020 05:30PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's why I said if she sees it, you have to take every situation on its own merit, in this case I can honestly see her thought process if she found the situation creepy and I wouldn't tell her she's wrong.

Also, he didn't identify himself, there were 2 lads in the van, he didn't say which one he was.

This why it is interesting to me to explore this, because a determination on whether or not something is creepy surely must be based on more than just whether or not someone found it to be so.

It is an interesting topic and reminded me of a Tedx talk I saw some years ago on 'How To Skip the Small Talk and Connect With Anyone'. The girl giving the talk suggested that you go straight to ask meaningful questions and that that would lead to better interactions with people.

The top comment on the video included the following.

I try to imagine what would happen, if I, a forty-something, 6-feet, fat, bearded guy, would meet a young woman like Kalina in a train, lean over to her and ask her in my nicest voice: "What do you want to do before you die?"

The comment was a bit funny, but it does raise the point that behaviour can be viewed differently based on the person carrying it out or the person on the receiving end of it and is that a fair scenario?

Tell me how · 15-08-2020 05:34PM

FunLover18 wrote: »

The text isn't what's intrusive though, people text all the time but usually they've exchanged numbers for that purpose. The intrusive bit is that she didn't give him her number, she gave the company her number. He took her phone number without her permission and rightfully lost his job. You can't do that and his intentions are irrelevant.

Agree with it being inappropriate.
Disagree with it being creepy.

On the balance, losing his job was probably still warranted given that every day a driver will have access to new numbers and meet new people and GDPR legislation very much was designed to prevent your data being used in a way you haven't specifically agreed to.

kenmm · 15-08-2020 05:35PM

Tell me how wrote: »

This why it is interesting to me to explore this, because a determination on whether or not something is creepy surely must be based on more than just whether or not someone found it to be so.

It is an interesting topic and reminded me of a Tedx talk I saw some years ago on 'How To Skip the Small Talk and Connect With Anyone'. The girl giving the talk suggested that you go straight to ask meaningful questions and that that would lead to better interactions with people.

The top comment on the video included the following.

The comment was a bit funny, but it does raise the point that behaviour can be viewed differently based on the person carrying it out or the person on the receiving end of it and is that a fair scenario?

Ye, it's a combination of things really.

Taking the phone number without permission and then the awkward disjointed texts.

If he asked for the number first or didn't start the conversation and leave it hanging then I'd wager there would be no issue. But I think those things together moved it into the 'thats a bit creepy' zone for a lot of people.

And that is all there is to it.
Comparing to other situations, down the pub, work colleagues, gender reversals and all the other what-ifs are all irrelevant in this case.

hynesie08 · 15-08-2020 05:39PM

This why it is interesting to me to explore this, because a determination on whether or not something is creepy surely must be based on more than just whether or not someone found it to be so.

Agreed, there are so many more factors than just perception, but at the same time downplaying someone's fears because of our perception is not the right way to go.

It is an interesting topic and reminded me of a Tedx talk I saw some years ago on 'How To Skip the Small Talk and Connect With Anyone'. The girl giving the talk suggested that you go straight to ask meaningful questions and that that would lead to better interactions with people.

The top comment on the video included the following.

The comment was a bit funny, but it does raise the point that behaviour can be viewed differently based on the person carrying it out or the person on the receiving end of it and is that a fair scenario?

Intent vs outcome is something that fascinates me, I don't think AH is the place for that discussion.....

kenmm · 15-08-2020 05:39PM

Tell me how wrote: »

On the balance, losing his job was probably still warranted given that every day a driver will have access to new numbers and meet new people and GDPR legislation very much was designed to prevent your data being used in a way you haven't specifically agreed to.

Ye, loosing the job is harsh but probably inevitable in this case. He broke his employers trust (and it all played out in public to boot)

hynesie08 · 15-08-2020 05:46PM

kenmm wrote: »

Ye, loosing the job is harsh but probably inevitable in this case. He broke his employers trust (and it all played out in public to boot)

Is it harsh though? Every job has a red line DO NOT DO THIS, and I'd imagine this would cross that, I know if I did something like this I'd be out on my ear. Play stupid games and all that.

breezy1985 · 15-08-2020 05:50PM

Love everyone arguing about is it this or that and "oh everyones a snowflake get over it" when its very simple. He took her number against rules and probably law so he rightly got sacked. There is no grey area here he broke rules and probably laws

kenmm · 15-08-2020 05:58PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Love everyone arguing about is it this or that and "oh everyones a snowflake get over it" when its very simple. He took her number against rules and probably law so he rightly got sacked. There is no grey area here he broke rules and probably laws

Exactly.

That's what I mean. All these bs comparisons, back in my day, going for a kiss in a club, using 'snowflake' to shut down discussion. All of it is irrelevant as ultimately he wrongly took her personal details and she wasn't (rightly) too happy about it.
All the other nonsense is just the usual boards.ie/forum off topic noise that always happens.

kenmm · 15-08-2020 06:00PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Is it harsh though? Every job has a red line DO NOT DO THIS, and I'd imagine this would cross that, I know if I did something like this I'd be out on my ear. Play stupid games and all that.

Depends on lots of factors. Probably it's a straight stackable offence but if he was (for example) a great employee and made one error in judgement after many years of loyal diligent, honest service then it might be preferable to go down some other disciplinary procedure.

But we don't know anything other than the basic facts, so it's all speculation really.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 06:02PM

I wouldn't sack him ..i would just put him on probation and give her some free stuff.

kenmm · 15-08-2020 06:07PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I wouldn't sack him ..i would just put him on probation and give her some free stuff.

Trying to giver her some is what caused this mess in the first place :pac:

Tell me how · 15-08-2020 06:08PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

Love everyone arguing about is it this or that and "oh everyones a snowflake get over it" when its very simple. He took her number against rules and probably law so he rightly got sacked. There is no grey area here he broke rules and probably laws

Your statement here contains a grey area with the use of the word 'probably'

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 06:09PM

kenmm wrote: »

Trying to giver her some is what caused this mess in the first place :pac:

lol

There is nothing cheap jewelry from argos cannot fix.

Im so lying

kenmm · 15-08-2020 06:12PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Your statement here contains a grey area with the use of the word 'probably'

The boards wink face is even creepier than Argos delivery drivers

the purple tin · 15-08-2020 06:13PM

kenmm wrote: »

Ye, it's a combination of things really.

Taking the phone number without permission and then the awkward disjointed texts.

If he asked for the number first or didn't start the conversation and leave it hanging then I'd wager there would be no issue. But I think those things together moved it into the 'thats a bit creepy' zone for a lot of people.

And that is all there is to it.
Comparing to other situations, down the pub, work colleagues, gender reversals and all the other what-ifs are all irrelevant in this case.

Yeah that is a bit weird. You don't just text 'hey' to somebody and then leave it unless they actually know who you are.
Even then it annoys my head, I would be tempted to text 'f**k off' back no matter who sent it.

Tell me how · 15-08-2020 06:14PM

kenmm wrote: »

The boards wink face is even creepier than Argos delivery drivers

Hope I don't lose my job over this.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 06:16PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Hope I don't lose my job over this.

Don't worry. NOBODY FIRES MY INTERN!

Esse85 · 15-08-2020 06:19PM

You'd wonder if this man was a solicitor or architect that dropped something off to this womans house and then text the same messages, would there be such uproar from the girl?
Or is it because its easier throw a delivery driver under the bus.

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 06:24PM

Esse85 wrote: »

You'd wonder if this man was a solicitor or architect that dropped something off to this womans house and then text the same messages, would there be such uproar from the girl?
Or is it because its easier throw a delivery driver under the bus.

Are you suggesting women have different rules for men with more money! :eek: ?

No way! I don't believe it.

I am shocked!

Truthvader · 15-08-2020 06:31PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

He broke GDPR. She reported him for that. His rule breaking, his consequences. End of.

He broke GDPR Oh my god I hadn't fully understood. A man who would do that is capable of anything. Clearly a maniac.

Let me make it up to you. Arriving in Dun Laoghaire at about 7 in my yacht. Dinner in the George for nine?

vikings2012 · 15-08-2020 06:58PM

Esse85 wrote: »

You'd wonder if this man was a solicitor or architect that dropped something off to this womans house and then text the same messages, would there be such uproar from the girl?
Or is it because its easier throw a delivery driver under the bus.

Usually the client/customer makes a decision to engage a solicitor or architect. Their decision is made after researching their credentials, experience and reputation. It is also their job to forge a working relationship.

Whereas, the woman in this scenario did not know the Argos driver, did not know his background and did not know his motive. He merely took her personal information for his own potential gain.

pickarooney · 15-08-2020 07:13PM

MsStote wrote: »

To be fair I have had this, the guy was a big guy and worked for tesco. I mean he comes into my home and I was afraid of him after he texted me. I did not give him my number and I had to call his work. However he knows where I live, I feared retribution for it. Hell I have cameras up in part due to this. I didn't want money, I just didn't want that happening again.

Like I have the numbers of some of the drivers, few of them on my facebook as we get on. He just went too far.

Too many people equate big with dangerous. It's not a man's fault if he'd tall and well built and it means nothing about his character. If a man wants to hurt you, his size, like his skin colour, is of little consequence.

ittakestwo · 15-08-2020 07:32PM

Esse85 wrote: »

You'd wonder if this man was a solicitor or architect that dropped something off to this womans house and then text the same messages, would there be such uproar from the girl?
Or is it because its easier throw a delivery driver under the bus.

Only they could answer that but there is nothing to suggest they would act differently.

It is a weird thing to do. Obviously the employee only had the number to use for work purposes, and not use to send a text ask someone out. A lot would not be to bothered and not complain but there would be a few that would and anyone with half a brain with have released this.

MsStote · 15-08-2020 07:51PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Too many people equate big with dangerous. It's not a man's fault if he'd tall and well built and it means nothing about his character. If a man wants to hurt you, his size, like his skin colour, is of little consequence.

My fiance is 6ft6 and built like a brick crap house. I know just how cuddly he is. However despite me being physically stronger than most women, I would be unable to over power him. Christ most of the guys I know are well over 6ft and all lovely.
I NEVER mention skin colour and I have absolutely no idea why you want to use a red herring here.

As someone who is smaller, if my opponent is bigger I will worry. When they know my address it's scary. Then again maybe it was because I was held down outside of a pub by two men and sexually assaulted in front of 20 people, none of whom helped me. I feel safe in my home, I go to extremes to protect where I live but at the end of the day I have to get deliveries.
Have you any idea what it is like to be overpowered when in a fight? To have some put their body on yours and you can't do anything... You have no idea what that women has gone through, you wouldn't know looking at me.

I'm not some feminist twat, I do not hate men. Do you not think that some woman taking a guys phone number and texting him would be inappropriate. It's invasion of privacy and something people should never have to worry about.

imme · 15-08-2020 08:03PM

"Disgusted" the woman was according to the headline seeking'article'.

From the thread title I thought there was going to be a service introduced for singletons where you could pick a date from a catalogue, what a pity.

The driver obviously had no right to use her details to contact her privately.
Things like that aren't allowed anymore.

There'll be no rom coms made ever again.:rolleyes:

Esse85 · 15-08-2020 08:08PM

It's not actually the act itself thats all that bad. If this was a once off isolated thing it's a small misdemeanour. So petty that it's not something the guards would bother with.

It gets a bad rap when people think back to all their bad experiences with the opposite sex and stack this on top and then it's like the final straw. This guy will most likely be penalised more harshly due to other negative experiences this girl endured from others before she received these messages.

It's like some on here making out what this guy did makes him a danger to society, unfortunately their baggage and previous experiences are influencing their opinion here.

The bigger crime here was using work details for personal gain, not in asking a girl was she single.

So are you single? Argos style....

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