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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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Comments

  • #1622
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,689 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    In a labatory. There has been no real world testing, it's happening at the moment and the data will be with the WHO soon.

    Wait, we can trust the WHO now? Good to know!


  • #1623
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?ContensisTextOnly=true

    I'd suggest Nature is a more credible source than whatever blog or YouTube channel you're getting your info from.

    I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

    To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.


  • #1624
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,935 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

    To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.

    so what "opposite effect" do masks produce and what is your source for that claim?


  • #1625
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,689 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I asked not to be furnished labatory results, it's not the real world.

    To repeat there is no real world results yet. Trials are under way.

    Slow day for trolling I guess. What a ridiculous position.


  • #1626
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so what "opposite effect" do masks produce and what is your source for that claim?

    Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
    It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
    I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.


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  • #1627
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Why not? Because they don't back up your nonsense?

    Nonsense is believing Johnny & Mary with their dirty chinstraps are helping the fight, there a million miles from labatory test results.


  • #1628
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
    It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
    I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

    You're attributing this to masks with zero basis...


  • #1629
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
    It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
    I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

    And you got the answer - Universal support across every single Demographic in the US , including a Majority of Trump Supporters.


  • #1630
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,935 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
    It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
    I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

    so wearing masks causes covid cases to go up? what covid advisory committee are you referring to because the irish one has certainly made no such claim.


  • #1631
    Hoop66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,829 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    That's an untested in the real world theory, there is 0 evidence to back up such a claim in a real world setting. Antidotal evidence is showing them to have the opposite effect. Large scale testing happening at the moment, results should be out soon.
    Don't point me to a labatory test to back up your assumption.
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Cases go up. It's been noted in the UK. Our cases are also rising.
    It's the wrong thread for this discussion my question was how voters will react to Bidens mask push yesterday.
    I suggest you go watch yesterdays debate from the covid advisory committee if you would like to hear some fact based educated information.

    Are you *actually* a drunk monkey?


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  • #1632
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fyi, the official guidance of the cdc is to wear masks. The only addition to that info is they should not have valves as they're ineffective.

    https://www.self.com/story/mask-with-valve-cdc-recommendation


  • #1633
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You're attributing this to masks with zero basis...

    Another wrong assumption, let's see what the Denmark study reveals. Mandatory masks here was a political move to appease the media nothing more, there was and still not science to say it's a good idea.
    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/


  • #1634
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,075 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Another wrong assumption, let's see what the Denmark study reveals. Mandatory masks here was a political move to appease the media nothing more, there was and still not science to say it's a good idea.
    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/

    Interesting. Do you think masks make the situation worse?

    What was the point of our parents telling us to put our hands in front of our mouths when we cough or use a hanky when we sneeze.

    I guess they, and all parents, have been part of this enormous conspiracy to control the populations across the world as well?

    But that isn't really the issue. in the US, the CDC are the established agency to deal with issues like this. And as such to simply dismiss their recommendations without any evidence is beyond reckless. The real issue is that Trump has been sending out mixed signals as of now, and actually totally contrary signals up to a few weeks ago which confused what was actually, from the individuals POV, quite a straight forward siutation.

    THat has led to a lack of clear message, and people feeling like they can make up their own minds and then tell others how their opinion is valuable.


  • #1635
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Interesting. Do you think masks make the situation worse?

    What was the point of our parents telling us to put our hands in front of our mouths when we cough or use a hanky when we sneeze.

    I guess they, and all parents, have been part of this enormous conspiracy to control the populations across the world as well?

    But that isn't really the issue. in the US, the CDC are the established agency to deal with issues like this. And as such to simply dismiss their recommendations without any evidence is beyond reckless. The real issue is that Trump has been sending out mixed signals as of now, and actually totally contrary signals up to a few weeks ago which confused what was actually, from the individuals POV, quite a straight forward siutation.

    THat has led to a lack of clear message, and people feeling like they can make up their own minds and then tell others how their opinion is valuable.

    It's also shown that Trump actually holds on real opinions on anything.

    He was for masks a few weeks ago saying that it was "Patriotic to wear masks" , now though he's changed his tune.

    Not because there's any updated data to alter his opinion , no he changed his mind simply because it's the opposite of what Biden suggests.

    It speaks to his inability to negotiate throughout his Presidency - He takes this all encompassing "you're either with us or you're against us" mentality into everything.

    He simply cannot imagine a scenario where he would say "I agree with Joe Biden on this , but not on these other things", It's all or nothing with him. He is incapable of finding common ground with anyone.


  • #1636
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    I wonder what avid Trump supporter Herman Cain has to say about not wearing masks?


  • #1637
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Interesting. Do you think masks make the situation worse?

    What was the point of our parents telling us to put our hands in front of our mouths when we cough or use a hanky when we sneeze.

    I guess they, and all parents, have been part of this enormous conspiracy to control the populations across the world as well?

    But that isn't really the issue. in the US, the CDC are the established agency to deal with issues like this. And as such to simply dismiss their recommendations without any evidence is beyond reckless. The real issue is that Trump has been sending out mixed signals as of now, and actually totally contrary signals up to a few weeks ago which confused what was actually, from the individuals POV, quite a straight forward siutation.

    THat has led to a lack of clear message, and people feeling like they can make up their own minds and then tell others how their opinion is valuable.

    Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

    Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
    The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

    I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.


  • #1638
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    I wonder what avid Trump supporter Herman Cain has to say about not wearing masks?

    You should ask him his Twitter handle is alive.


  • #1639
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,075 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

    Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
    The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

    I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.

    Yeah, you didn't answer the question. Do you think masks actually increase the risk of the virus spreading?

    And what do you think of Trumps changing position on it. He was first against it then claimed it was patriotic (which of course means anybody that refused to wear them is no better than Colin Kaepernick and the like) but now seems to be have gone off them again. Which is it?

    Do you also hold the same view that hand washing is pointless?


  • #1640
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,078 ✭ [Deleted User]


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

    Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
    The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

    I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.
    How is wearing a mask in a shop dangerous? I ask because I work in a shop and wear one all day everyday.


  • #1641
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Go read the evidence, listen to the experts, wait for better test results. You obviously haven't read the link or the report from Norway contained within it.

    Are you asking for my personal opinion, based on my research the mandatory mask policy in all shops is pointless and dangerous as I'm not seeing any clinically acceptable usage of them.
    The policy was not guided by factual data and was politically motivated.

    I'd be with Trump on his opinion to leave the decision with the individual.

    I've read the article you linked to and indeed the articles that it links to.

    NONE of them say that masks increase the chance of Infection - NOT ONE.

    There is a level debate about how much benefit they provide or that their effectiveness is potentially reduced as a results of incorrect usage etc.

    The Norway study basically suggests that at a low level of community infection the benefits of wearing masks are possibly negligible. I'm not sure that the current US Hotspots would qualify as "Low levels of infection" though.

    They do say that in the case of universal mask wearing that it's possible that the people that suffer adverse effects from wearing masks (Breathing difficulties , Skin irritation etc.) would outweigh the number of Covid infections it avoids

    But as I said absolutely NONE have remotely suggested that wearing masks increases the risk of getting infected.

    tl;dr

    Masks might not reduce Covid Infefctions significantly, but they absolutely do not make it any worse


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  • #1642
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How is wearing a mask in a shop dangerous? I ask because I work in a shop and wear one all day everyday.

    Right so you see what's happening with the General public then, I'm not referring to you it's the people coming into you. They adjust the mask from the front, pick up and then hand an item to you. It's then up to you to clean your hands after that customer to break the chain of transmission or you could unintentionally pass it to the next customer.
    It's a good thing the virus isn't rampant as the dangers of all this misuse would become blatantly apparent and you'd be in a very risky environment.


  • #1643
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I've read the article you linked to and indeed the articles that it links to.

    NONE of them say that masks increase the chance of Infection - NOT ONE.

    There is a level debate about how much benefit they provide or that their effectiveness is potentially reduced as a results of incorrect usage etc.

    The Norway study basically suggests that at a low level of community infection the benefits of wearing masks are possibly negligible. I'm not sure that the current US Hotspots would qualify as "Low levels of infection" though.

    They do say that in the case of universal mask wearing that it's possible that the people that suffer adverse effects from wearing masks (Breathing difficulties , Skin irritation etc.) would outweigh the number of Covid infections it avoids

    But as I said absolutely NONE have remotely suggested that wearing masks increases the risk of getting infected.

    tl;dr

    Masks might not reduce Covid Infefctions significantly, but they absolutely do not make it any worse

    I didn't say the article claimed they increased transmission but one of the authors Professor Carl Heneghan was speaking yesterday at the advisory committee and he said they'd noticed cases went up in areas of the UK with compulsory mask wearing.


  • #1644
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,075 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    So it is incorrect usage rather than the masks themselves that you have an issue with.

    Would you accept that masks, if used properly, are not dangerous and do not increase the spread?

    Wouldn't it be great, since it is misuse that would appear to be the problem, if the US had some central agency that could diseminate the correct information to the public rather than getting continually mixed messages from POTUS that clearly doesn't understand the issue


  • #1645
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Right so you see what's happening with the General public then, I'm not referring to you it's the people coming into you. They adjust the mask from the front, pick up and then hand an item to you. It's then up to you to clean your hands after that customer to break the chain of transmission or you could unintentionally pass it to the next customer.
    It's a good thing the virus isn't rampant as the dangers of all this misuse would become blatantly apparent and you'd be in a very risky environment.

    How does the presence of a mask change the dynamic of this scenario???

    Do people that don't wear masks not touch their face or something?

    Don't get me wrong , the scenario you describe is a valid concern , but the potential negative implications are just as likely/prevalent with or without a mask.

    No one has ever suggested that Masks are a panacea that provide universal protection. They do however help , even if it's only a tiny bit.

    We all need to continue to do all of the other things - Hand washing , Social distancing etc. etc.

    Anyway - This is really not the right thread for this conversation.


  • #1646
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    So this poster seems to both believe that masks increase the spread of covid, but also has said they believe covid is likely all a hoax anyway.

    Yeah, totally checks out.


  • #1647
    randd1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭randd1


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    So this poster seems to both believe that masks increase the spread of covid, but also has said they believe covid is likely all a hoax anyway.

    Yeah, totally checks out.

    What in any of his posts indicated that you were to expect reasonable points to be made?

    The guy is clearly just having a laugh at a wind up.


  • #1648
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    [QUOTE=Quin_Dub;114304551

    We all need to continue to do all of the other things - Hand washing , Social distancing etc. etc.

    Anyway - This is really not the right thread for this conversation.[/QUOTE]

    That's what's been lost from my observations, good Hygiene and distancing seen to have really slipped, once the mask goes on distancing seems to be an after thought, NPHET are concerned and so am I.

    Your right it's the wrong thread, original question was answered. 54% republican in favor, still leaves a large cohort of Republicans not in favor.


  • #1649
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Trump reconfirms he's a racist citing a birther theory for Harris. 'Nasty' man.


  • #1650
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bowie wrote: »
    Trump reconfirms he's a racist citing a birther theory for Harris. 'Nasty' man.

    Someone should remind him Obama won the election handily the year they really tested out this birther nonsense on him.


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  • #1651
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,075 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Bowie wrote: »
    Trump reconfirms he's a racist citing a birther theory for Harris. 'Nasty' man.

    Isn't Harris a racist pick, it was all black women Biden was choosing from.
    Is the thinking all blacks will vote for her, didn't they think women would vote for Hillary.


This discussion has been closed.
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