Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Penfailed · 07-08-2020 02:06PM

The Unbearables wrote: »

41yo woman who lives next door to my mother in law hasn't been back to work since she caught covid back in April. She ran the Berlin and Dublin marathons last year and now she moves like a 40 a day smoker.

She say's she feels worse now than she did a few weeks ago and ive been told she's suffering from depression now also.

This fcuking disease.

Yeah, according to some people on here, she's making it up.

The Unbearables · 07-08-2020 02:06PM

road_high wrote: »

If you believe that you’ll believe anything I doubt there’s any point convincing you otherwise. Lockdown is utterly futile as you end up back to square one each time. As we can see now. But yea it’s a great success...

It is a great success and if you can't see that i can't help you.

Leroy42 · 07-08-2020 02:07PM

road_high wrote: »

If you believe that you’ll believe anything I doubt there’s any point convincing you otherwise. Lockdown is utterly futile as you end up back to square one each time. As we can see now. But yea it’s a great success...

Jebus, using that logic we should never bother with cancer treatment as the person will eventually die anyway!

Do you believe that the lockdown had no effect on the amount of people that got infected or the people that died?

If you don't, can you explain why almost every expert in the area looked for their own countries to undertake similar lockdowns. In fact, in the UK, and large debate is about how many died as a result of the delay to implement a lockdown until they did.

What evidence have you that lockdowns have no effect, apart from it simply delays things?

One of the reasons was that PPE and venilators were in short supply. Another was that it gave extra time to find a vaccine. Another was that it gave additional time to learn about better ways to treat, set up track and trace.

MadYaker · 07-08-2020 02:07PM

The Unbearables wrote: »

41yo woman who lives next door to my mother in law hasn't been back to work since she caught covid back in April. She ran the Berlin and Dublin marathons last year and now she moves like a 40 a day smoker.

She say's she feels worse now than she did a few weeks ago and ive been told she's suffering from depression now also.

This fcuking disease.

A friend of my dad has a very similar story. He’s late 40s no underlying conditions. He’s out of hospital a few months now and he still has chronic fatigue and breathing difficulties, never had anything like that before. His doctors can’t tell him if he will get better or if this is the way he has to live now, they don’t know.

The Unbearables · 07-08-2020 02:07PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Yeah, according to some people on here, she's making it up.

There's a desperation from some to pretend Covid isn't that serious and saving 1000's of lives wasn't worth it as they are all old people anyway.

I'm alright Jack.

Flyer1 · 07-08-2020 02:13PM

Unfortunate for some of these people with long term lasting effects - maybe there is something else underlying.

I was out cycling last weekend with someone who had COVID - we did a 75km cycle at an average pace of 29km/h. Not saying your friend is making up the symptoms but not everyone recovers in the same way. However some people struggle to look beyond the positive stories.

facehugger99 · 07-08-2020 02:13PM

MadYaker wrote: »

A friend of my dad has a very similar story. He’s late 40s no underlying conditions. He’s out of hospital a few months now and he still has chronic fatigue and breathing difficulties, never had anything like that before. His doctors can’t tell him if he will get better or if this is the way he has to live now, they don’t know.

A friend of mine caught Covid a couple of weeks ago and has never felt better. Used to be very tired all the time but has now taken up jogging and lost over 20 pounds.

Anecdotes are great.

road_high · 07-08-2020 02:15PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Like I say, easy knowing you're under 65.

I'm all right Jack, pull up the ladder on all those auld wans, they'll be grand.

There’s no problem with evaluating risk based on age. If I was over 70 and in poor health then it stands to reason I’d control my OWN actions and movements...there’s a far bit of obvious resentment in these kind of posts. More or less “if I must suffer then everyone else most too” regardless of their age and good health

gral6 · 07-08-2020 02:15PM

Mod - banned for ignoring threadban

Leroy42 · 07-08-2020 02:16PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

A friend of mine caught Covid a couple of weeks ago and has never felt better. Used to be very tired all the time but has now taken up jogging and lost over 20 pounds.

Anecdotes are great.

But we know many people do die. So clearly your friend is a welcome case but not the only case.

Do you think a government should look to protect those that could be negatively effected or simply hope that everyone gets on fine?

Leroy42 · 07-08-2020 02:16PM

gral6 wrote: »

Open the pubs ffs!
Enough of this bul**** super killer bug!

The pubs are open, ffs.

road_high · 07-08-2020 02:16PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

A friend of mine caught Covid a couple of weeks ago and has never felt better. Used to be very tired all the time but has now taken up jogging and lost over 20 pounds.

Anecdotes are great.

Possibly a wake up call for many. Seen as it particularly effects the over weight and in poor general health. That’s been well documented but not in keeping with the ultra PC “everyone is the same” world we live in today

froog · 07-08-2020 02:17PM

Seems like plenty of evidence for possible long term effects of this thing. However i can forsee plenty of other people either suffering purely psychosomatic symptoms, or just flat out milking it for various reasons.

HeidiHeidi · 07-08-2020 02:19PM

road_high wrote: »

There’s no problem with evaluating risk based on age. If I was over 70 and in poor health then it stands to reason I’d control my OWN actions and movements...there’s a far bit of obvious resentment in these kind of posts. More or less “if I must suffer then everyone else most too” regardless of their age and good health

I'd see it more as an "anyone else can/should suffer as long as I get to live as normal" attitude by that poster.

He's looking to control the elderly (or wants the elderly to limit their lives, if you want to look at it like that) so his life can resume, as was.

Seriously selfish and unempathetic attitude.

road_high · 07-08-2020 02:22PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'd see it more as an "anyone else can/should suffer as long as I get to live as normal" attitude by that poster.

He's looking to control the elderly (or wants the elderly to limit their lives, if you want to look at it like that) so his life can resume, as was.

Seriously selfish and unempathetic attitude.

Of course more vulnerable people should and need to limit their lifestyles if the need to.
What’s seriously selfish is expecting and mandating everyone else to do the same for you when you can do that as an act of personal responsibility. We know enough about it that it’s mainly the elderly and in poor health this is an actual problem for. If it effected mainly young people then I’d advise the inverse. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, it’s logic

HeidiHeidi · 07-08-2020 02:24PM

road_high wrote: »

Of course more vulnerable people should and need to limit their lifestyles if the need to.
What’s seriously selfish is expecting and mandating everyone else to do the same for you when you can do that as an act of personal responsibility. We know enough about it that it’s mainly the elderly and in poor health this is an actual problem for. If it effected mainly young people then I’d advise the inverse. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, it’s logic

You might want to look at the median age of infections recently then.

road_high · 07-08-2020 02:29PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You might want to look at the median age of infections recently then.

Yes and none of them are dying and most are asymptomatic... Many getting a variation of the sniffles. But here some people are losing their minds over it

paw patrol · 07-08-2020 02:29PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

You might want to look at the median age of infections recently then.

infections yes - but having to go hospital or ICU then there are sod all - There are 5 people in ICU at the moment due to covid - that is all.
The infection numbers are increasing BUT the actual numbers requiring treatment in hospital has fallen quite a bit.
which actually proves his point.

is_that_so · 07-08-2020 02:35PM

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Yes but this is being used as a stick on the entire population. Listen to Donnelly and Martin - music to their ears in terms of justifying the new lockdown measures.

I think the change in personality in in the government is also interesting. From Leo and Harris "Come on let's do this together" to "We're very worried so do what we tell you". It is the backdrop of school reopening that is exercising all minds, do it reasonably well and they all come out of it not looking terrible, mess it up and that's the story of this government.

The Belly · 07-08-2020 02:40PM

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I'd see it more as an "anyone else can/should suffer as long as I get to live as normal" attitude by that poster.

He's looking to control the elderly (or wants the elderly to limit their lives, if you want to look at it like that) so his life can resume, as was.

Seriously selfish and unempathetic attitude.

Let me reverse that for you

Your looking to control the 80% of the population(or wants the 80% to limit their lives, if you want to look at it like that) so your life can resume, as was.

Seriously selfish and unempathetic attitude.

Leroy42 · 07-08-2020 02:52PM

But you are missing a vital element. Lets say we lock the elderly up. Of course we then have to coccoon those with existing health conditions as well. So cancer patients, ansmatha sufferers, the obese etc etc.

But are they never going to seen again? Only seen by those with immunity? Only by each other? Do those with existing conditions then have to give up work?

And of course not all elderly that get it will die, so then you run into the argument that only certain people within that group should be quarantined.

And who gets to decide. Apparently we cannot take the advice of medical professionals as they are all corrupt and or too conversation. So who then?

Penfailed · 07-08-2020 03:04PM

Flyer1 wrote: »

Unfortunate for some of these people with long term lasting effects - maybe there is something else underlying.

I was out cycling last weekend with someone who had COVID - we did a 75km cycle at an average pace of 29km/h. Not saying your friend is making up the symptoms but not everyone recovers in the same way. However some people struggle to look beyond the positive stories.

Exactly! It's completely unknown how it's going to affect you regardless of age. It's more likely to kill you if you are in a certain age bracket but the people who are suffering the effects months after contracting it are less well documented.

joseywhales · 07-08-2020 03:06PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Eventually even the slowest lads in class are going to realise the futility of the lockdown.

For the virus, it doesn't matter if we stay in lockdown for another 2 weeks or 2 years. The only difference will be the billions of euros that have been flushed away.

The slow lads might even start to think how handy those billions of euros would have been to fund a health service that's even more dysfunctional because we're hundreds of billions in debt.

Lockdown was about buying a few weeks preparation time for the health service to gear up - not about eliminating the virus - it's been driven now by hysteria on social media and single-issue bureaucrats. The politicians are paralyzed by fear of being labeled 'granny-killers'.

The slow lads will wake up one morning and see the devastated economy, the thousands of viable businesses lost, the hundreds of thousands out of work, the hundreds of billions of debt to be passed onto their kids and grand-kids, the chronically underfunded public services and wonder why nobody told them this was going to happen.

It's almost funny to see the penny start to drop with some of them

I disagree.
The "slow lads" as you call them are basically all of us. We can only be motivated in a short term horizon and we are completely focused on our own selfish needs. This has always been the main problem with humans when we try to overcome these instincts to improve our long term survival.

This is just another example of it, we have tiny inconveniences in the short term for a long term payoff, we have the logic and data but our instincts make us focus on these minor inconveniences as if they are life threatening and we are preoccupied with effect on us and our immediate bubble.

We know that we can have a surviving economy if we persevere with enacting the correct precautions and we have compliance(people can still construct, study, shop and work) , we are capable of innovating our way to a competent level in these respects.

Instead we constantly allow our instincts to overcome what we know is rational and fear. The fear of "well if x isn't doing it or if y is not believed to be effective then why should I have to do it? Or why should we bother at all?" That is the easy answer. The race to the bottom is not a solution. We diligently struggle to find holes in the latest advice or reports, not because we want to help with constructive criticism but because we don't want to comply because we are afraid and our instincts tell us to be.

If we actually manage to sustain enough compliance and we progress far enough scientifically to overcome this virus without major loss, it will be the greatest achievement in modern human history because we will have proven that as a conscious collective we can overcome our individual fears and instincts.

I am very proud of how everyone has tried to fight this. Of course the virus never goes away but neither do we and we are just as adaptive and capable of change.

As far as the economy goes, it wont be much better if we end up in the situation that Florida appears to be just coming out of.

Penfailed · 07-08-2020 03:10PM

https://www.ft.com/content/8a8c9630-7cce-417a-8732-f0589009be14

Anecdotes aplenty.

HeidiHeidi · 07-08-2020 03:22PM

The Belly wrote: »

Let me reverse that for you

Your looking to control the 80% of the population(or wants the 80% to limit their lives, if you want to look at it like that) so your life can resume, as was.

Seriously selfish and unempathetic attitude.

Haha!

Apart from anything, I'm firmly within your 80% bracket.

But unlike others, I'm not looking to control anyone (and certainly not to their detriment and my benefit).

Like it or not, we're all in this together - there's a virus out there that has potential to cause mayhem - you can't just write off a whole section of the population (except in your dreams).

bluelamp · 07-08-2020 03:36PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

But you are missing a vital element. Lets say we lock the elderly up. Of course we then have to coccoon those with existing health conditions as well. So cancer patients, ansmatha sufferers, the obese etc etc.

But are they never going to seen again? Only seen by those with immunity? Only by each other? Do those with existing conditions then have to give up work?

And of course not all elderly that get it will die, so then you run into the argument that only certain people within that group should be quarantined.

And who gets to decide. Apparently we cannot take the advice of medical professionals as they are all corrupt and or too conversation. So who then?

Who gets to decide....

How about we let them decide themselves?

My god, what a strange point we have reached.

facehugger99 · 07-08-2020 04:01PM

bluelamp wrote: »

Who gets to decide....

How about we let them decide themselves?

My god, what a strange point we have reached.

Don't be ridiculous.

De man on de telly does my thinking for me and that the way I like it.

Lundstram · 07-08-2020 04:12PM

As a Kildare man, I’ll blow a gasket if the Leinster three go into a lockdown.

There was a stage when Dublin accounted for over a half of infections but no such regional lockdown up there, funny that.

As a nation we are really milking this, nothing else matters it seems.

2 Covid19 deaths in 11 days. 2. Crazy.

11 road deaths in 11 days. Not a word.

Stupid country.

07-08-2020 04:28PM

Lundstram wrote: »

As a Kildare man, I’ll blow a gasket if the Leinster three go into a lockdown.

There was a stage when Dublin accounted for over a half of infections but no such regional lockdown up there, funny that.

As a nation we are really milking this, nothing else matters it seems.

2 Covid19 deaths in 11 days. 2. Crazy.

11 road deaths in 11 days. Not a word.

Stupid country.

11 road deaths but also many more were seriously injured as well.
If we done a daily report on crashes, hospitalizations and deaths, most of this forum would never drive again.

joseywhales · 07-08-2020 04:29PM

bluelamp wrote: »

Who gets to decide....

How about we let them decide themselves?

My god, what a strange point we have reached.

We have created systems over centuries to train medical professionals and all scientists to better standards. They are intensely criticised and must defend their scientific judgements for their entire professional lives. Only those that succeed end up in senior positions. Perhaps we should leverage this system that we have painstakingly toiled over for eons. I am not saying that their advice will always be correct but they are the best that we have to offer.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings