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Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

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    #1262
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    RANIA wrote: »
    But if you have lost your job ate you not very unlikely to sell your house, knowing the bank won't give you another even smaller mortgage? Will people not just not pay and stay put?

    That is exactly what will happen and what happened back in the last recession, sure why would you put yourself through the pain of going on the housing list or renting and then selling up at a lower value to what your house is worth. When you can just stick you fingers in your ears for a few years and gradually engage with the bank and PIPS and other left leaning orgs that will play the poor me card.


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    #1263
    wassie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,342 ✭✭✭wassie


    brisan wrote: »
    I bought my first house in 1982 as a 4th year apprentice
    3 bed semi for 24500 pounds
    Borrowed 18k at 16.5 %
    Lads now complain about 3 or 4 % mortgages lol

    I had this discussion the other day with someone who couldn't understand why I'm fine with my mortgage rate of 2.4% when I could switch & get 2.3%......


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    #1264
    Akesh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 315 ✭✭Akesh


    awec wrote: »
    How many 4th year apprentices do you think can buy 3 bed semi's today?

    Some people really don't understand inflation... Imagine writing that post you quoted thinking you were making a valid point :eek:


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    #1265
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Akesh wrote: »
    Some people really don't understand inflation... Imagine writing that post you quoted thinking you were making a valid point :eek:

    It is also attitude and entitlement..How many 4th year apprentices will sacrifice 5/6 years of not going out , not taking 2 holidays to the canaries and live with the parents saving on rent in order to get a deposit and to be in a position to buy. Its not just about inflation


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    #1266
    Cantstandsya
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Cantstandsya


    fliball123 wrote: »
    It is also attitude and entitlement..How many 4th year apprentices will sacrifice 5/6 years of not going out , not taking 2 holidays to the canaries and live with the parents saving on rent in order to get a deposit and to be in a position to buy. Its not just about inflation


    So the fourth year apprentice should start saving for his deposit in third year of secondary school?


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    #1267
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Shelga


    fliball123 wrote: »
    It is also attitude and entitlement..How many 4th year apprentices will sacrifice 5/6 years of not going out , not taking 2 holidays to the canaries and live with the parents saving on rent in order to get a deposit and to be in a position to buy. Its not just about inflation

    Do you think it's right that that is what someone has to do, in order to have a place to call their own? Do you think someone is a better person if they have zero life for 6 years and live with their parents for 6 years, well into their late 20s/early 30s?

    Let's focus on the broken system, not pat ourselves on the back for the amount of misery points we accrued, while totting up our savings :rolleyes:

    And yes, I'm well aware that "that's just the way it is."


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    #1268
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,977 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    fliball123 wrote: »
    It is also attitude and entitlement..How many 4th year apprentices will sacrifice 5/6 years of not going out , not taking 2 holidays to the canaries and live with the parents saving on rent in order to get a deposit and to be in a position to buy. Its not just about inflation

    Again, we now live in an entirely different world compared to previous generations, of high asset price inflation and low wage inflation, it's a hell of a lot to do about inflation!


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    #1269
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Cantstandsya wrote: »
    So the fourth year apprentice should start saving for his deposit in third year of secondary school?

    No but they should be saving as soon as they start earning and if they want to buy a house they will have to make sacrifices I have my gaff 20 odd years and I didn't go out side the door for about 4 years, my night out was a bar of chocolate, some pop corn and a rented DVD for the night, I would spend less than a tenner, my peers would be out in pubs and night clubs out on the lash spending 20 times that. It all depends on where you are and what you want to do. If you want to party and go on a few holidays a year when your in your teens and twenties go for it I dont begrudge you living that way but don't expect to pick up a house possible the biggest purchase you will ever make by saving for a few months, that just wont happen and no amount of pi$$ing and moaning will force people to lower the price of their property.


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    #1270
    MacronvFrugals
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭MacronvFrugals


    brisan wrote: »
    I bought my first house in 1982 as a 4th year apprentice
    3 bed semi for 24500 pounds
    Borrowed 18k at 16.5 %
    Lads now complain about 3 or 4 % mortgages lol

    Must have been tough competing with IRES back then lol


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    #1271
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Shelga wrote: »
    Do you think it's right that that is what someone has to do, in order to have a place to call their own? Do you think someone is a better person if they have zero life for 6 years and live with their parents for 6 years, well into their late 20s/early 30s?

    Let's focus on the broken system, not pat ourselves on the back for the amount of misery points we accrued, while totting up our savings :rolleyes:

    And yes, I'm well aware that "that's just the way it is."

    Well I did it, anyone I know in my extended family and friends who has a house now did it, my parents before me did it. Now weather it is right or wrong I couldn't answer that but on the flip side why should it just be handed to the current generation? All I know is that someone selling wont just go ahh look at this poor 20/30 something we have to help out this poor buyer out as they partied for a few years and had a lot of holidays and unfortunately now they have very little savings so lets drop our price to suit them. That is just not a reality we live in. If you want something you have to sacrifice and its not just in property but its pretty much how it works in all facets of life


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    #1272
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭hometruths


    brisan wrote: »
    I bought my first house in 1982 as a 4th year apprentice
    3 bed semi for 24500 pounds
    Borrowed 18k at 16.5 %
    Lads now complain about 3 or 4 % mortgages lol

    Imagine how much they will complain if their 3% variable rate becomes 15%!


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    #1273
    Cantstandsya
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Cantstandsya


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well I did it, anyone I know in my extended family and friends who has a house now did it, my parents before me did it. Now weather it is right or wrong I couldn't answer that but on the flip side why should it just be handed to the current generation? All I know is that someone selling wont just go ahh look at this poor 20/30 something we have to help out this poor buyer out as they partied for a few years and had a lot of holidays and unfortunately now they have very little savings so lets drop our price to suit them. That is just not a reality we live in. If you want something you have to sacrifice and its not just in property but its pretty much how it works in all facets of life


    No, you didn't do it. You bought a house in a property market that doesn't exist anymore.


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    #1274
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,553 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well I did it, anyone I know in my extended family and friends who has a house now did it, my parents before me did it. Now weather it is right or wrong I couldn't answer that but on the flip side why should it just be handed to the current generation? All I know is that someone selling wont just go ahh look at this poor 20/30 something we have to help out this poor buyer out as they partied for a few years and had a lot of holidays and unfortunately now they have very little savings so lets drop our price to suit them. That is just not a reality we live in. If you want something you have to sacrifice and its not just in property but its pretty much how it works in all facets of life

    This is one of the laziest, most patronising elements of society today, the idea that people buying today have it easy.

    Anyone who thinks people struggle to buy houses today because they go out at weekends is an idiot. There is no other word for it. It's that avocado toast nonsense.

    It is always so bemusing to hear how easy it is today from people who bought a 3 bed house in Dublin on a single working class salary.


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    #1275
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,891 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Cantstandsya wrote: »
    No, you didn't do it. You bought a house in a property market that doesn't exist anymore.

    the premise remains the same, buying a house is easier if you sacrifice,

    previous generations were more likely to scarifice than current generations.

    generally now, we want it all, and we want it now.


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    #1276
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    awec wrote: »
    This is one of the laziest, most patronising elements of society today, the idea that people buying today have it easy.

    Anyone who thinks people struggle to buy houses today because they go out at weekends is an idiot. There is no other word for it.


    I never said they had it easy. I just said there should be no expectation of it being handed to them, big big difference.


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    #1277
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Cantstandsya wrote: »
    No, you didn't do it. You bought a house in a property market that doesn't exist anymore.

    OK I will bite explain??


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    #1278
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,553 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    fliball123 wrote: »
    I never said they had it easy. I just said there should be no expectation of it being handed to them, big big difference.

    No such expectation exists.


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    #1279
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    awec wrote: »
    No such expectation exists.

    Ok you have lost me I never said it was easy for the current generation. I simply said that things should not just be handed to them. Do you see the difference? I have 2 kids and I know they will be running the same race and jumping the same hurdles you are. I do sympathize that some cannot afford to buy where they want but why should a seller sell at a lower price so that someone can afford to buy where they want and most likely where other people will want and will be willing to pay more?


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    #1280
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,553 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Cyrus wrote: »
    the premise remains the same, buying a house is easier if you sacrifice,

    previous generations were more likely to scarifice than current generations.

    generally now, we want it all, and we want it now.

    It wouldn't matter if someone ate koka noodles and toast twice a day and lived in their mum's attic, in the grand scheme of things it's insignificant, house prices have soared and wages have not kept up.

    People on average salaries struggle to or just can't afford average homes.

    It's nothing to do with sacrifice. The market today is totally different to what it was 20/30/40 years ago.


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    #1281
    Cantstandsya
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Cantstandsya


    Cyrus wrote: »
    the premise remains the same, buying a house is easier if you sacrifice,

    previous generations were more likely to scarifice than current generations.

    generally now, we want it all, and we want it now.

    What does this mean?

    Please show me the evidence that "previous generations were more likely to sacrifice".

    It sounds like the usual dismissive guff that gets trotted out by a generation passively enriched by rocketing asset prices to convince themselves they earned their wealth.


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    #1282
    Cantstandsya
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Cantstandsya


    fliball123 wrote: »
    OK I will bite explain??


    Explain what? Are seriously clueless enough to think being a FTB in the 90s is the same as today?


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    #1283
    MacronvFrugals
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭MacronvFrugals


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well I did it, anyone I know in my extended family and friends who has a house now did it, my parents before me did it. Now weather it is right or wrong I couldn't answer that but on the flip side why should it just be handed to the current generation? All I know is that someone selling wont just go ahh look at this poor 20/30 something we have to help out this poor buyer out as they partied for a few years and had a lot of holidays and unfortunately now they have very little savings so lets drop our price to suit them. That is just not a reality we live in. If you want something you have to sacrifice and its not just in property but its pretty much how it works in all facets of life

    I went to college 4 years, study most weekends to get certifications and currently a programmer on 48k aged 24, live with my parents and nearly have the deposit up yet i'm still relying on the Rebuilding Ireland scheme to buy in a very rough part of D11, thats fine though i'm excited about getting my own home and understand how lucky i am.

    Many of those weekends though i thought to myself this isnt sustainable only to a hyper introvert who loves learning like myself, is this the standard for a single person to own their own home now? if so its pretty miserable tbh.

    This avocado toast attitude has ran its course, my dad often acknowledges he bought a 4 bedroom really nice house on 1 bricky wage in the 80s - compare that standard to now.


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    #1284
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    awec wrote: »
    It wouldn't matter if someone ate koka noodles and toast twice a day and lived in their mum's attic, in the grand scheme of things it's insignificant, house prices have soared and wages have not kept up.

    People on average salaries struggle to or just can't afford average homes.

    It's nothing to do with sacrifice. The market today is totally different to what it was 20/30/40 years ago.

    True back then FTB were not getting 30k off the gov
    People were not guaranteed a place to live if on the dole
    People with a few kids were not given a gaff taking more out of the stock of houses
    REITS and Vulture funds were not snapping up property left right and center
    Interest rates were 10 times what they are .
    Wages are also up even if they have not kept up with property prices.
    Stamp duty was multiple times what it is now
    There was no property tax back then

    Above are some conditions that have changed the property market that would help or stop people from buying a house where they want but if there is a will there is a way. Being honest if I was starting all over I would probably have to stay in and no holidays for another couple of years but 30k off the gov is one hell of help that was not available back when I was starting.


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    #1285
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    MacronvFrugals wrote: »
    I went to college 4 years, study most weekends to get certifications and currently a programmer on 48k aged 24, live with my parents and nearly have the deposit up yet i'm still relying on the Rebuilding Ireland scheme to buy in a very rough part of D11, thats fine though i'm excited about getting my own home and understand how lucky i am.

    Many of those weekends though i thought to myself this isnt sustainable only to a hyper introvert who loves learning like myself, is this the standard for a single person to own their own home now? if so its pretty miserable tbh.

    This avocado toast attitude has ran its course, my dad often acknowledges he bought a 4 bedroom really nice house on 1 bricky wage in the 80s - compare that standard to now.

    Well aren't you just proof that it can be done? I am not saying its easy and you will be on the ladder and once your on when your more comfortable or moving on in your life as in a wife, kids whatever floats your boat you can trade up and when the kids fly the coup and you don't need the 4/5 beds anymore you can trade down. I have listed a fair few differences between now and when I was starting out but fair play and congrats on your gaff..go and enjoy it as you have made a lot of sacrifices for it.


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    #1286
    Cantstandsya
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Cantstandsya


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well aren't you just proof that it can be done? I am not saying its easy and you will be on the ladder and once your on when your more comfortable or moving on in your life as in a wife, kids whatever floats your boat you can trade up and when the kids fly the coup and you don't need the 4/5 beds anymore you can trade down. I have listed a fair few differences between now and when I was starting out but fair play and congrats on your gaff..go and enjoy it as you have made a lot of sacrifices for it.

    Did you read what the poster actually wrote?


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    #1287
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Cantstandsya wrote: »
    Did you read what the poster actually wrote?

    Yes I did and what was wrong with what I replied? I dont know when his dad bought I couldnt have bought one on a brickies wage when I was buying it took my wage and the misses? I dont know where I have offended you?


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    #1288
    Cantstandsya
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Cantstandsya


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Yes I did and what was wrong with what I replied? I dont know when his dad bought I couldnt have bought one on a brickies wage when I was buying it took my wage and the misses? I dont know where I have offended you?


    You totally missed their point, whether intentionally or otherwise.

    You didn't offend me. Just interesting to see how someone else chooses to (mis)read a pretty simple comment.


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    #1289
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well aren't you just proof that it can be done? I am not saying its easy and you will be on the ladder and once your on when your more comfortable or moving on in your life as in a wife, kids whatever floats your boat you can trade up and when the kids fly the coup and you don't need the 4/5 beds anymore you can trade down. I have listed a fair few differences between now and when I was starting out but fair play and congrats on your gaff..go and enjoy it as you have made a lot of sacrifices for it.

    If he earned just €2,001 more he would not be able to use the rebuilding ireland home loan and would get a much lower multiple from a bank. Also, read his post. It is far more than just sacrificing he is doing.

    I know plenty of people that have enough for a deposit saved up, but house prices are too expensive and would leave them either in a rough area or with a seriously long commute.


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    #1290
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Shelga


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Well I did it, anyone I know in my extended family and friends who has a house now did it, my parents before me did it. Now weather it is right or wrong I couldn't answer that but on the flip side why should it just be handed to the current generation? All I know is that someone selling wont just go ahh look at this poor 20/30 something we have to help out this poor buyer out as they partied for a few years and had a lot of holidays and unfortunately now they have very little savings so lets drop our price to suit them. That is just not a reality we live in. If you want something you have to sacrifice and its not just in property but its pretty much how it works in all facets of life

    But who is saying it should just be handed to us? No one is arguing that.

    Ok, you had no life for 4 years, well done. That's 4 years of your 20s you'll never get back, and no I'm not saying go out and spend all your money on alcohol, but there has to be some leeway for occasional eating out, socialising, seeing a little bit of the world, even if that's just an odd weekend away. I think those things apply to both the 1980s and now. I would crack up if I sat in my living room for 4 years straight.

    All people are saying is that it is frustrating and demoralising if you are on a middling salary of say €40-45k in Dublin, you pay €700 a month in rent, you cut the rest of your expenses down to the bone, and say you save €800-1000 a month. The bank will only lend you €158000. Say a pretty basic 2 bed place in Dublin costs €260k. It will take you 9.5 years to save a deposit, plus come up with an extra €5k for stamp duty and expenses. For all of this 9 years you can have no major expenses, no holidays, no unexpected large bills.

    Now, obviously people would aim to earn more as the years go by. But what if you start off on €23k, and work your way up to €45k after 5-10 years? I'm sure this isn't a million miles away from what teachers and nurses earn.

    What kind of life is that? There is chasm between what I have just outlined, and "expecting a house to be handed to you." The truth is, it's near impossible to do, without a partner or family help, whereas my parents could easily secure a mortgage on 1 income, and the house was about twice my father's annual salary. You cannot compare the two.

    Anyway, I'm out, these conversations go nowhere.


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    #1291
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,891 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Cantstandsya wrote: »
    What does this mean?

    Please show me the evidence that "previous generations were more likely to sacrifice".

    It sounds like the usual dismissive guff that gets trotted out by a generation passively enriched by rocketing asset prices to convince themselves they earned their wealth.

    im probably the same generation as you so you can retract your last comment,

    my parents bought a modest house when they were young, some of the rooms had no flooring, it was about 600 sq feet. its not 3500 sq feet and it would be most peoples idea of a dream house, but for years they had no flooring, no curtains, you get the jist.

    most people wouldnt care to live like that today, thats what i meant.


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