Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

The White Wolf · 03-08-2020 08:29PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If Salah or Mane where leaving this summer you can be sure we'd be in the market for big players like we where when we needed a CB and GK

We just got to trust the boss and owners

Well this is it isn't it - our top players haven't even reached their peak and will not be leaving, so I'm resigned to the fact that FSG just aren't going to do what City have already been doing in the window since it opened.

I'd be lying though if I said I didn't find it a little disconcerting. Growing up I remember Ferguson's team being in tip top shape but it never stopped him from dipping into the market and adding one or two big signings every summer.

I guess he didn't trust his team to stay competitive amongst themselves while Klopp does, and I suppose I can live with that. :pac:

yourdeadwright · 03-08-2020 08:40PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well this is it isn't it - our top players haven't even reached their peak and will not be leaving, so I'm resigned to the fact that FSG just aren't going to do what City have already been doing in the window since it opened.

I'd be lying though if I said I didn't find it a little disconcerting. Growing up I remember Ferguson's team being in tip top shape but it never stopped him from dipping into the market and adding one or two big signings every summer.

I guess he didn't trust his team to stay competitive amongst themselves while Klopp does, and I suppose I can live with that. :pac:

I think Fergie only seems like that because he was there for 26 years,
Only last summer was quite for us since Klopp come in, he's singed some amazing players in 5 seasons,

noodler · 03-08-2020 08:45PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

The increased success has led to a sense of entitlement amongst some of the fan base. It really took hold around the Van Dijk saga the summer before he signed, and has carried over into every name linked to the club since whether there’s any truth to the links or not. If the paper prints a story about them they should be signed or else it’s the owners being frugal.

Mental OTT strawman response to all but one poster's concerns tbh.

The debate always swings this way around here.

Question Klopp substitutions? "You think.you know more than him?"

Query our lack of transfer activity for two years despite record success? "Some of our fanbase are entitled"

There seems to be no reasonable way to discuss anything without being portrayed as a Zealot of some kind.

noodler · 03-08-2020 08:48PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Presumably this is just a panic response to Sancho/Werner signings.
Neither of those clubs will be winning the league for years. It would be nice to have a "statement" signing to provide a lift in these quiet days but I'll trust those who know the plan.

There is a plan

This "won't be winning the league for years stuff" is an impossible prediction. I didn't see us challenging in 2018/2019 and certainly not Leicester in either 2015/2016 or (for much of) this year.

Utopia Parkway · 03-08-2020 09:06PM

Don't think it will be much of a factor for the next season or two but I do have concerns that in a couple years time we will have a team with a lot of players pushing 30 or already past 30. We don't really have very many starters in that early 20's range that have yet to enter their prime apart from Trent and Gomez. We've never been a more attractive proposition for young super talented players but we've pretty much passed on every one of them over the past 2 years or so. I think we could probably have signed any one of them if we really wanted to. The plan seems to be to run the current team out there again until the wheels start to fall off. Can't argue it's been very successful so far but where are we in a couple years time given the age profile of the squad. Maybe not a big thing now as we're all delighted to be winning trophies but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a tiny bit concerned that the squad isn't being future proofed for the years ahead. Especially post Klopp.

03-08-2020 09:48PM

Klopp documentary starting at 10pm on channel 4

rob316 · 03-08-2020 09:53PM

noodler wrote: »

I will admit it is concerning to see Chelsea, City and Utd strengthen without any of the covid-19 fears our owners seemingly had.

Chelsea and United have holes in there starting XI which we don't have, they have to spend big to get the best players in each position. We don't have anyone leaving, our starting team will be the same next season as last. It's hard to get quality players in at a good price who are willing to fight for a place from the bench. When we needed a goalkeeper and centre back we broke records.
We'll sign a couple players but they will be back up/squad players who maybe can develop into starters or the next mane or Salah.
Klopp won't sign players to make up the numbers and for the sake of it.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-08-2020 10:03PM

The mighty Real Madrid furloughed their staff and players, as did Barcelona. So did McDonald's, a business worth 200 Billion, not 1 billion like Liverpool. Was so silly for people to make an issue out of it in hindsight. Liverpool pay huge taxes, and had every right to avail of same help the Government was offering every other business.

Enzokk · 03-08-2020 10:46PM

Yes it can be concerning when we don't spend in the transfer market. At the same time we were 19 points ahead of City and 33 ahead of Utd and Chelsea. Not too worried as I don't see FSG being happy with the team not competing, within the way they run the club that is. US Sports can be deceiving as they want a competitive league, but even with that the Red Sox are always considered contenders. I am sure they will want the same with us, without the constraints of a salary cap that hampers dynasties in the US.

54and56 · 04-08-2020 10:14AM

FSG are very experienced and highly competent owners. Their investment is at its maximum value now (bar Covid) so they essentially have two choices:

1. Sell some or all of the club now.

2. Do whatever it takes to maintain the investment.

They can pull the trigger on option 1 at any time of their choosing but assuming they don't and their strategy is to be long term owners it would be commercial suicide to not future proof the squad by bringing in replacements for ageing players in a planned and structured manner and similarly they'll need a succession plan for Klopp when he decides to walk.

I just don't see FSG ever allowing a situation to arise where the team is over the hill, replacements haven't been recruited and Klopp walks leaving a new manager scrambling to build a new team. We'd quickly find ourselves back in 5th-8th which could easily wipe 30% or more off the value of their investment.

FSG aren't that naive.

04-08-2020 10:27AM

3. Do a Glazer's <shudder>

Tusky · 04-08-2020 10:28AM

I really hope Klopp is given a decent budget this summer to improve the squad. He has worked wonders, despite having a lot less to spend than our rivals. But no major signings following a Champions League win last year, and none this year after winning the league, would be fairly bizarre. Covid should not be used as an excuse for standing completely still.

04-08-2020 10:31AM

Tusky wrote: »

Covid should not be used as an excuse for standing completely still.

I agree. And Covid works both ways, it suppresses purchase price and possibly wage demands.

yourdeadwright · 04-08-2020 10:54AM

Tusky wrote: »

I really hope Klopp is given a decent budget this summer to improve the squad. He has worked wonders, despite having a lot less to spend than our rivals. But no major signings following a Champions League win last year, and none this year after winning the league, would be fairly bizarre. Covid should not be used as an excuse for standing completely still.

Not sure how people think he has had a lot less to spend,
To me it looks like he has spent exactly how he wanted to we spent big on midfield to get Keita and Fabhino , We spent big to sort our defence and got Alisson and VVD when they where needed ,

Currently we don't NEED a big signing so we haven't got one, I don't see why everyone is moaning,

No point buying shinny new toys that are worse than the toys we have,

04-08-2020 11:07AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not sure how people think he has had a lot less to spend,
To me it looks like he has spent exactly how he wanted to we spent big on midfield to get Keita and Fabhino , We spent big to sort our defence and got Alisson and VVD when they where needed ,

Currently we don't NEED a big signing so we haven't got one, I don't see why everyone is moaning,

No point buying shinny new toys that are worse than the toys we have,

Toys can break. Good to have excellent backups, but also if Toy Story has thought us anything its that new toys make old toys work harder. QED.

yourdeadwright · 04-08-2020 11:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Toys can break. Good to have excellent backups, but also if Toy Story has thought us anything its that new toys make old toys work harder. QED.

We aren't spending 100 million or 200 grand a week in wages for lads to be cover its just not happing,

BillyHasMates · 04-08-2020 11:42AM

It's not about getting a big name signing in though, or even trying to improve the first 11. That doesn't mean we should not try and find better cover for certain positions. Just because we won the league handily doesn't mean we don't need to look at improving our squad. Sport does not stand still. We have lost Lallana and Lovren already from the squad.

I think it's fair to say we don't have adequate cover for the front three and haven't had it for a few seasons now. I have concerns that the front three may get tired or even stale. Hard to maintain consistent and high levels of form over multiple seasons. Very few players achieve it. We dodged a bullet with Afcon getting put back but how much longer can we pin our hopes on any of the front 3 not picking up long term injuries? I think we are riding our luck tbh. Cover for Robertson is also an issue with the squad.

It's not moaning to expect the club to go out and try and shore up weaknesses in the squad. The midfield aside, we have glaring gaps in quality between our starting 11 and backup options. I made no secret of the fact I wanted the Werner deal to happen as it would have given Klopp the opportunity to rotate the front three and cover any long term injuries there. He could have been groomed to eventually replace Mane or Salah in the team. I think he wanted to join Liverpool and would have joined for less wages than he is getting at Chelsea.

Dickerty · 04-08-2020 11:55AM

When we spent big on Becker, Virgil and Salah, no-one questioned that we needed a player in that position, just maybe the price, which we shouldn't care about. So now other clubs desperately need to fill similar gaps, but we don't. So our lack of activity is not a surprise.

Every summer, we act as if there is some unique crop of young players that we MUST sign. Gotze, Dembele, Fekir, Pepe, Werner, Havertz. But next year, there will just be more of them. It's rare that one comes along that we simply MUST buy. The aforementioned Becker and Virgil are two of those must-buys, and maybe Mane on reflection. So if we don't sign another major this summer, don't sweat it - there is always next summer!

BillyHasMates · 04-08-2020 12:05PM

Dickerty wrote: »

When we spent big on Becker, Virgil and Salah, no-one questioned that we needed a player in that position, just maybe the price, which we shouldn't care about. So now other clubs desperately need to fill similar gaps, but we don't. So our lack of activity is not a surprise.

Every summer, we act as if there is some unique crop of young players that we MUST sign. Gotze, Dembele, Fekir, Pepe, Werner, Havertz. But next year, there will just be more of them. It's rare that one comes along that we simply MUST buy. The aforementioned Becker and Virgil are two of those must-buys, and maybe Mane on reflection. So if we don't sign another major this summer, don't sweat it - there is always next summer!

Holding the opinion that we can and maybe should improve the squad does not equate to holding the opinion we must buy big. Where are you getting this idea from? I think most of us feel we need to spend, just not necessarily spend big. Bit of a difference between spending and not spending anything at all.

Personally I would feel much better if we brought in cover for Robertson and an option for the front 3 better than Divock Origi. Doesn't follow that I'm automatically expecting the club to spend big to achieve this.

yourdeadwright · 04-08-2020 12:25PM

BillyHasMates wrote: »

It's not about getting a big name signing in though, or even trying to improve the first 11. That doesn't mean we should not try and find better cover for certain positions. Just because we won the league handily doesn't mean we don't need to look at improving our squad. Sport does not stand still. We have lost Lallana and Lovren already from the squad.

I think it's fair to say we don't have adequate cover for the front three and haven't had it for a few seasons now. I have concerns that the front three may get tired or even stale. Hard to maintain consistent and high levels of form over multiple seasons. Very few players achieve it. We dodged a bullet with Afcon getting put back but how much longer can we pin our hopes on any of the front 3 not picking up long term injuries? I think we are riding our luck tbh. Cover for Robertson is also an issue with the squad.

It's not moaning to expect the club to go out and try and shore up weaknesses in the squad. The midfield aside, we have glaring gaps in quality between our starting 11 and backup options. I made no secret of the fact I wanted the Werner deal to happen as it would have given Klopp the opportunity to rotate the front three and cover any long term injuries there. He could have been groomed to eventually replace Mane or Salah in the team. I think he wanted to join Liverpool and would have joined for less wages than he is getting at Chelsea.

Isn't there also the possibility the front 3 have there best season yet next year ?

Personally as well as Bobby and Mo played last season I think they where both below there normal standard, Its freighting to think they could improve ,
We also have Keita coming into his own ,
Henderson becoming a true leader on the pitch ,
Trent is still a kid improving all the time,
Alisson could have a injury free season ,
Minamino will be settled

There are lots of things to look forward to ,

And 2 months to add to that ,,

BillyHasMates · 04-08-2020 12:34PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Isn't there also the possibility the front 3 have there best season yet next year ?

Personally as well as Bobby and Mo played last season I think they where both below there normal standard, Its freighting to think they could improve ,
We also have Keita coming into his own ,
Henderson becoming a true leader on the pitch ,
Trent is still a kid improving all the time,
Alisson could have a injury free season ,
Minamino will be settled

There are lots of things to look forward to ,

And 2 months to add to that ,,

They could get better I wouldn't argue that. But they could just as easily go the other direction. Injuries could also happen. It's better to be safe and plan for the worst case scenario. Truth is I don't think Origi is good enough and Minamino may or may not come good. You named some first eleven players above. Again I don't have issue with the first eleven, just the lack of what I see as adequate cover below the first eleven.

MD1990 · 04-08-2020 12:37PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbOTqSgDQDk

what a season Mane had.

For me not even a debate between Mane & Salah. Mane is a level above he has everything. Pace,dribbling,2 feet,good in the air,pressing & game winning goals. Incredible player. Best left winger in the world

yourdeadwright · 04-08-2020 12:46PM

BillyHasMates wrote: »

They could get better I wouldn't argue that. But they could just as easily go the other direction. Injuries could also happen. It's better to be safe and plan for the worst case scenario. Truth is I don't think Origi is good enough and Minamino may or may not come good. You named some first eleven players above. Again I don't have issue with the first eleven, just the lack of what I see as adequate cover below the first eleven.

But that's the same for all the clubs,
City struggle again if Laporte, KDB, Sterling or Sergio get injured ,
United the same , Chelsea the same,

3 singings this summer will be enough , Cover for Robbo, Replace Dejan and someone who can cover for Mo/Mane,

No need to panic at all just yet,

j8wk2feszrnpao · 04-08-2020 12:57PM

MD1990 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbOTqSgDQDk

what a season Mane had.

For me not even a debate between Mane & Salah. Mane is a level above he has everything. Pace,dribbling,2 feet,good in the air,pressing & game winning goals. Incredible player. Best left winger in the world

All the stats point to Salah being better, and I think he's better. Salah has been great for Liverpool, but doesn't get the love that Torres/Suarez got.

And even now with Mane. Salah doesn't pass and he gets slated, but Mane was quite greedy in the last number of games himself, and doesn't get the same level of criticism.

We've really fortunate to have both.
Mane, 170 games, 81 goals, 34 assists
Salah, 152 games, 94 goals, 41 assists

dogbert27 · 04-08-2020 01:02PM

Minamino has been brought in for cover to the front 3.

After the CL games against RB Klopp said the players pleaded with him to sign Minamino.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/12/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-takumi-minamino-signing-transfer-lfc-news-11877583/

Klopp was also annoyed after the FA Cup game that the players weren't using Minamino correctly

https://talksport.com/football/fa-cup/678251/jurgen-klopp-liverpool-new-signing-takumi-minamino-fa-cup-chelsea/

I think with a pre-season together Minamino and the others will be on the same wavelength for next season.

Klopp usually beds a player in for a few months and with the coronavirus this has been very disjointed for Minamino.

yourdeadwright · 04-08-2020 01:40PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

All the stats point to Salah being better, and I think he's better. Salah has been great for Liverpool, but doesn't get the love that Torres/Suarez got.

And even now with Mane. Salah doesn't pass and he gets slated, but Mane was quite greedy in the last number of games himself, and doesn't get the same level of criticism.

We've really fortunate to have both.
Mane, 170 games, 81 goals, 34 assists
Salah, 152 games, 94 goals, 41 assists

Salah is unreal, every season more goals more assist and more ground covered than Mane, who is also unreal

Salah first season was so so good that some how it's effected how people see him now, he doesn't get nearly enough credit,

For me Salah and Mane are both better than Hazard but get no where near the plaudits,

BorneTobyWilde · 04-08-2020 01:57PM

Thiago could be got cheap, if he made it clear he'd only leave Bayern for Liverpool. If not Liverpool he'd be happy to stay at Bayern and leave for Liverpool for free in 11 months.
I'm sure it's whats going on behind the scenes. I'm sure FSG will wait 11 months to save 30m, as would Klopp

Tusky · 04-08-2020 01:58PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not sure how people think he has had a lot less to spend,
To me it looks like he has spent exactly how he wanted to we spent big on midfield to get Keita and Fabhino , We spent big to sort our defence and got Alisson and VVD when they where needed ,

Currently we don't NEED a big signing so we haven't got one, I don't see why everyone is moaning,

No point buying shinny new toys that are worse than the toys we have,

We lack quality cover for the front 3, at fullback, and need a new centre back after Lovren has left. We could also do with some creativity in the middle. There's no crisis in the team, but we should always be trying to improve.

[edit] and on the Mane v Salah debate. Salah was obviously better in his first season, but since then Mane has been a level above I reckon. It's not just about goals and assists. Mane has more influence over games and is a much more reliable performer. Always seems to give at least 7/10, and often 8 or 9. Salah give plenty of 8/9/10 performances, but also has a fair few 5s and 6s. We are blessed to have them both either way!

gimli2112 · 04-08-2020 02:00PM

yeah Salah for me, he's been unreal, it seems to be popular to play down his achievements but he's been phenomenal
arguably the world's greatest Egyptian

BorneTobyWilde · 04-08-2020 02:00PM

Or agree a low price now, if player makes it clear he doesn't want to join some random club in this window, free in Jan, or take the 10m today, you know it makes sense.

Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2020/2021

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