Garda opened my fpn and delivered it to me

yamaha4life · 31-07-2020 11:40am #1

I got fixed penalty notice in the post but i obviously wasnt in at the time, post man put a pink return to sender on envelope, it has an AGS stamp on it 22 of this month, anyway a garda knocked on my door on the 29th and with no gloves, no mask, no social distance and asked who i was etc. After confirmation of identity gave me my fpn stapled to the envelope and told me ive 7 days to pay the fine.

Now dont get me wrong here i am not trying to get out of the fpn i have paid it. What is annoying me is 7 days to pay or pay higher fine or go to court? What happend to 28 days i asked to which the response was pay or go to court, with everything going on right now i was lucky to have the price of the fine in a week and no ppe thought it was very unprofessional? I didnt realise AGS could open your post either.

Bikerman2019 · 31-07-2020 11:43am

If it was returned to sender, maybe he opened it as it was not your post, it was sent by him/them. When does it become yours? When it is successfully delivered perhaps?

As for PPE, I see some gardai around without it. But what does that have to do with delivery?

yamaha4life · 31-07-2020 11:49am

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

As for PPE, I see some gardai around without it. But what does that have to do with delivery?

Would you like to stand less that 1 meter from someone not wearing a mask? Or hand you something without gloves on?

Maybe this pandemic is a conspiracy as gardai cant contract or spread it?

ronivek · 31-07-2020 11:56am

The 28 days would be from the date of the offence/issue of the fixed charge notice. Presumably that was 21 days ago if you have 7 days left to pay. Gardaí have no powers to change those dates.

Also it would have been An Post who likely opened the mail; if there was no return address on the envelope.

yamaha4life · 31-07-2020 12:04pm

The envelope has a return address a P.o box in dublin, i was lucky then to get it before the 28 days was up or else i would have had to pay the larger fine

Bikerman2019 · 31-07-2020 12:07pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

Would you like to stand less that 1 meter from someone not wearing a mask? Or hand you something without gloves on?

Maybe this pandemic is a conspiracy as gardai cant contract or spread it?

No I wouldn't like to, but I was in Iceland Tallaght this morning and their were people doing this to me. I was wearing a mask and had used the gel. Gloves are not necessary, have a read up.

P.S. I have some medical training and get memos direct from HSE.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/face-masks-disposable-gloves.html

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/gloves.html

Mrcaramelchoc · 31-07-2020 12:12pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

I got fixed penalty notice in the post but i obviously wasnt in at the time, post man put a pink return to sender on envelope,

Why would he do that?no postman would put a return to sender on a letter unless you told them to or he specifically knew you didn't live there anymore.if it was a registered letter and you weren't home he would have left a note for you to collect.
Can you explain why it was sent back in the first place?

ronivek · 31-07-2020 12:14pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

The envelope has a return address a P.o box in dublin, i was lucky then to get it before the 28 days was up or else i would have had to pay the larger fine

It’s possible they opened it to check the date and try to get it to you to give you time to pay; or potentially to verify the address details were correct since it had been returned to them. Hard to know exactly.

Just be glad you were able to pay it in time I suppose.

MrStuffins · 31-07-2020 1:00pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

Maybe this pandemic is a conspiracy as gardai cant contract or spread it?

Jesus Christ!

Rodney Bathgate · 31-07-2020 1:03pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

The envelope has a return address a P.o box in dublin, i was lucky then to get it before the 28 days was up or else i would have had to pay the larger fine

Yes, you have missed the big picture, he was doing you a favour.

Billgirlylegs · 31-07-2020 1:14pm

ronivek wrote: »

It’s possible they opened it to check the date and try to get it to you to give you time to pay; or potentially to verify the address details were correct since it had been returned to them. Hard to know exactly.

Just be glad you were able to pay it in time I suppose.

you got a note that An Post could not deliver your FPN and apparently did nothing about it.
There must be a procedure where these are returned (by An Post)to Sender.
They have to deal with it.

I would say they noted the date and delivered it personally(as opposed to putting it back in the post.
I think I would be grateful if I were you.

as for mask/gloves/gels etc - I think the Gardai and other delivery services have a pretty decent appreciation of the risks involved.

Bandana boy · 31-07-2020 1:37pm

So you got notice of a letter waiting at post office for you to collect , you ignored it and cost the state even more money in forcing a Garda to track you down to pay your fine.

Garda should have been wearing PPE but no sympathy for you , this all resulted from your behaviour.

0ph0rce0 · 31-07-2020 1:47pm

Not in relation to the OP but can a guard just knock on your door and ask who you are?

If they came to my house and knocked and said who are you?? Do I have to tell them or could I just tell him/her to piss off and close the door? (Not that I would but just as a hypothetical situation)

ELM327 · 31-07-2020 2:52pm

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Not in relation to the OP but can a guard just knock on your door and ask who you are?

If they came to my house and knocked and said who are you?? Do I have to tell them or could I just tell him/her to piss off and close the door? (Not that I would but just as a hypothetical situation)

They can ask.

As far as I am aware, you are required to identify yourself to a member if requested, but are not required to answer any further questions they may ask - unrelated to identification - without further due process. Of course, to not answer a Garda with a reasonable request is a stupid COA.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance.html

Turner · 31-07-2020 3:56pm

ELM327 wrote: »

They can ask.

As far as I am aware, you are required to identify yourself to a member if requested, but are not required to answer any further questions they may ask - unrelated to identification - without further due process. Of course, to not answer a Garda with a reasonable request is a stupid COA.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance.html

If you are at home and get a knock to the door, you are not legally required to answer any questions.

And could tell them to piss off.

In fact, you dont even have to answer your door.

tayto lover · 31-07-2020 3:57pm

Turner wrote: »

If you are at home and get a knock to the door, you are not legally required to answer any questions.

And could tell them to piss off.

In fact, you dont even have to answer your door.

It would take a special kind of retard to do that imo.

ELM327 · 31-07-2020 4:04pm

Turner wrote: »

If you are at home and get a knock to the door, you are not legally required to answer any questions.

And could tell them to piss off.

In fact, you dont even have to answer your door.

I thought it was that you are compelled to identify yourself to an AGS member if requested?

Agree with the other poster, it would be a silly COA to do the above.

Sofa King Great · 31-07-2020 4:44pm

My post man isn't wearing a mask or gloves, nor are anyone else delivering packages or take aways. In fact most people working in shops have not been wearing them and they are also handing me things from a metre away.

Is your issue the lack of PPE or the fact that it was a garda?

kravmaga · 31-07-2020 4:54pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

I got fixed penalty notice in the post but i obviously wasnt in at the time, post man put a pink return to sender on envelope, it has an AGS stamp on it 22 of this month, anyway a garda knocked on my door on the 29th and with no gloves, no mask, no social distance and asked who i was etc. After confirmation of identity gave me my fpn stapled to the envelope and told me ive 7 days to pay the fine.

Your story does not make sense, I got an FPN 4 years ago and it was posted into my letter box in the regular post, there is no requirement for you to sign for the letter. Unless the system has changed in the past 4 years.

Were you done by a Go safe van or by AGS at a Garda speed trap?

The Garda has done you a favour as usually if you do not pay within the 1st time frame period, it goes up to €120, if you fail to pay that amount on time, then a Summons is issued.
In front of a Judge you could get 5 points and a bigger fine.

yamaha4life · 31-07-2020 5:08pm

Bandana boy wrote: »

So you got notice of a letter waiting at post office for you to collect , you ignored it and cost the state even more money in forcing a Garda to track you down to pay your fine.

Garda should have been wearing PPE but no sympathy for you , this all resulted from your behaviour.

I received no note from anyone in relation to the envelope containing the Fpn, it wasnt a go safe van. I stated on the envelope that the garda gave me on the day had a sticker on it from the post man saying it wasnt delivered. AGAIN i never knew there was an attempt to deliver it was returned to sender without any knowledge on my part.

talla10 · 01-08-2020 5:23pm

tayto lover wrote: »

It would take a special kind of retard to do that imo.

Agreed. There could be many reason a Garda is looking to talk to you. Could be to break bad news, door to door enqs or seeking information in relation to suspicious behaviour in your area.

Or may have a warrant to search and focibly make entry if no answer

BorneTobyWilde · 01-08-2020 5:30pm

Pretty sure AGS need to suspect you of committing a crime to demand you identify yourself?

BorneTobyWilde · 01-08-2020 5:38pm

yamaha4life wrote: »

I got fixed penalty notice in the post but i obviously wasnt in at the time, post man put a pink return to sender on envelope, it has an AGS stamp on it 22 of this month, anyway a garda knocked on my door on the 29th and with no gloves, no mask, no social distance and asked who i was etc. After confirmation of identity gave me my fpn stapled to the envelope and told me ive 7 days to pay the fine.

Now dont get me wrong here i am not trying to get out of the fpn i have paid it. What is annoying me is 7 days to pay or pay higher fine or go to court? What happend to 28 days i asked to which the response was pay or go to court, with everything going on right now i was lucky to have the price of the fine in a week and no ppe thought it was very unprofessional? I didnt realise AGS could open your post either.

See I think this is the issue, the joy of power he showed over you, garda love that.

What happend to 28 days i asked ?

to which the response ....

could have been....Not sure mate , seems it's 7 days now, seems unfair but I don't make the rules, get it paid before it increase would be my advise, have a good day.

But no with Garda it's always arrogance and rude behavior

whomitconcerns · 03-08-2020 7:34am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

See I think this is the issue, the joy of power he showed over you, garda love that.

What happend to 28 days i asked ?

to which the response ....

could have been....Not sure mate , seems it's 7 days now, seems unfair but I don't make the rules, get it paid before it increase would be my advise, have a good day.

But no with Garda it's always arrogance and rude behavior

And then the person goes to court and says the Garda told him it seemed unfair.... Garda confirms to judge reluctantly and case is deemed unsound...

Can't be doing that

03-08-2020 7:51am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

could have been....Not sure mate , seems it's 7 days now, seems unfair but I don't make the rules, get it paid before it increase would be my advise, have a good day.

Did they not even offer to tuck you back into bed, the b@stards!

OP, do you live in an apartment complex which is hard to access? Can't imagine why a postal worker wouldn't deliver if they had access to your letter box.

Last time gardai came to my door it was early morning. Landline wasn't working, and it wasnt good news. They don't tend to randomly call to houses to do identity checks.

Dempo1 · 03-08-2020 8:12am

Have to say I find this very, very odd. Surely An Post would have some tracking mechanism to identify the sender without opening it, I presume it had a government mark of some discription. If the service of the FCP failed on first attempt, should it not have been resent. It just seems odd it was opened, sent to a local garda station to be served physically. Also, what say would have happened if the Garda who called failed in serving the notice? How would recepient prove he/didn't recieve it or that wasn't served, just an odd way to be managing service of FCP, whatever happened to registered post, I suspect a lot cheaper than having Gardai calling to people's homes.

Treppen · 03-08-2020 8:21am

No hat = no fine OP

Get Real · 03-08-2020 8:24am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

See I think this is the issue, the joy of power he showed over you, garda love that.

How is that power and arrogance? The literal law is pay or go to court. The Guard could have just taken it to the next step and let it go to court.

I'd rather pay a fine than have it turn into a summons and go to court.

If anything, calling out to the house was carrying out due diligence and giving a person every opportunity. Not the guards fault it was returned to sender.

If there was a headline in a year of all the fixed charges that go unpaid (due to situations like this) would you also complain the guard did nothing to follow up?

Darc19 · 03-08-2020 8:30am

yamaha4life wrote: »

Would you like to stand less that 1 meter from someone not wearing a mask? Or hand you something without gloves on?

Maybe this pandemic is a conspiracy as gardai cant contract or spread it?

Gloves????

What use is gloves.??

And I would guess that your door opens into the street and your interactions with the Garda is only a couple of minutes, so the chances of being at risk is practically zero unless of course you are a daily mail reader and believe every piece of sh1te on social media

RobbieMD · 03-08-2020 5:53pm

whomitconcerns wrote: »

And then the person goes to court and says the Garda told him it seemed unfair.... Garda confirms to judge reluctantly and case is deemed unsound...

Can't be doing that

A garda cannot serve a defendant summons in a prosecution taken in their own suit, they can serve a witness summons though. Most garda districts will have a summons server who does it full time.

If I remember correctly a few years ago this went to the high court about not receiving the fine. The fcpn system changed and if the fine wasn’t paid it went to summons with a page attached for a second late payment for the fcpn. If the fine was paid you didn’t have to go to court. Up till then a defendant was prejudiced in that if convicted in court the penalty points double that on the fcpn, now they can either pay the fine or go to court, but no longer can say they didn’t get the opportunity to pay the notice.

Killinator · 04-08-2020 4:05am

Gonna come at this from my experience of serving these.
The postman tried to deliver and for whatever reason (usually ticked/written) on a non-delivery sticker couldn't deliver.
This could be for any number of reasons but usually along the lines of no access or a person not known at that particular address.
The FCPN is then returned envelope and all back to Fixed Charge Processing office who in turn forward it to the local district of the address on the envelope which is generally where a vehicle which has been intercepted for whatever offence is registered or in the case of public order offences, the address given to the Garda at the time
The FCPN will be roved from the envelope so that the Garda assigned to serve it knows what the details of the alleged offence are and doesn't just rock up at the accused's address and say 'heres a ticket, don't know what it's for, good luck'. They also need to have the FCPN out of the envelope as they need to explain the various time limits and dates involved which they couldn't easily do if it was still in the envelope.
The FCPN will still have the envelope with the postal sticker attached as proof that an attempt was made to deliver it.
The Garda serving the FCPN is not going to be the Garda that issued it and will only know the same details that are available to be viewed on the ticket.
The Garda serving it is not responsible for it not being delivered previously by the post. The Garda will check to see if the person at the address (if it can be found) is the person who the FCPN was issued to. If they do not live at that address or are unknown there then further enquires will be carried out.
You may tell the Garda who tries to deliver the FCPN to piss off or not answer the door but as a result it may be concluded that it is the right address but accused was uncooperative, the FCPN will subsequently move on to court summons and if accused still doesn't turn up the a bench warrant can be issued.
Of course accused can stand up.in court and claim they never received a ticket and the Garda who was told to piss off can then give evidence that he attempted to serve the notice and was met with such a response.

As for PPE (gloves and the like) it varies from Garda to Garda. Not best practice to not have mask or gloves but not detrimental in any way to a prosecution, if that is an angle.

Garda opened my fpn and delivered it to me

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