FF/FG/Green Next Government

Snow Garden · 30-07-2020 01:12PM

blanch152 wrote: »

So the 9 o'clock news is on a channel other than RTE? That is a new fact to me.

As for the headline, that is an opinion, not a fact.

Ah yes, deliberately getting it wrong. Lets try again.

I said the RTE 9 News headline statement was 'Another Day Another U-Turn'.

ShefWed said something about me giving out before that RTE was evil or some such waffle. I have never said that. I like RTE and get most of my new from RTE.

It is a fact that the newsreader said 'Another Day Another U-Turn'

I asked ShefWed to address the headline. It was concerning another U-turn in relation to the PUP.

Another Day Another U-Turn

Are you now suggesting they did not say it or there wasn't another U-Turn?

Snow Garden · 30-07-2020 01:17PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

Yeah, so I never mentioned RTE as an unreliable source, ever. I just deal in facts. Maybe you could respond to the post/headline?

I fixed the post so it is clearer. I like RTE.

Please show me where I ever denounced them. Ever.

All day long clowns!

Snow Garden · 30-07-2020 01:18PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One minute RTE is the root of all evil, are we saying now RTE are great and a reliable source? :P

For the record. I do not think RTE are the root of all evil.

Infantile stuff.

Snow Garden · 30-07-2020 01:19PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/pup-u-turn-government-announcement-fails-to-curb-opposition-criticism-1.4316876

PUP U-turn: Government announcement fails to curb Opposition criticism

Snow Garden · 30-07-2020 01:20PM

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40024091.html

Daniel McConnell: Another day, another u-turn for government

Another day, another u-turn - and you know things are bad when even your u-turns are not stopping political landmines.

Oh look...

Snow Garden · 30-07-2020 01:20PM

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/government-u-turn-people-on-pandemic-unemployment-payment-to-be-allowed-travel-abroad-for-holidays-39407412.html

The Government has been forced into another embarrassing u-turn on the pandemic unemployment payment (PUP) and those in receipt of welfare benefit will now be able to travel to Green List countries without having their pay docked.

3 new sources for your FFG U-turns...I'll be your huckleberry

Muahahaha · 30-07-2020 02:16PM

blanch152 wrote: »

As regards public servants, there was never an issue with public servants travelling to green-list countries, because they won't have to quarantine!!!!!

Michael Martin and his civil servants went to Belgium which isnt on the green list and I didnt see him quartantine for 14 days when he arrived back to Ireland

Government has agreed that the following locations be included as 'normal precautions' on the Department of Foreign Affairs' Travel Advice:

Malta

Finland

Norway

Italy

Hungary

Estonia

Latvia

Lithuania

Cyprus

Slovak Republic (Slovakia)

Greece

Greenland

Monaco

San Marino

Gibraltar

Anyone arriving into Ireland from these locations will not have to restrict their movements.

Passengers from any other location not on this list are asked to restrict their movements for 14 days.

Maybe he had a 9 euro pub meal in Brussels and that means he can go straight back to mingling with the public having come from a Covid hotspot

blanch152 · 30-07-2020 02:21PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Michael Martin and his civil servants went to Belgium which isnt on the green list and I didnt see him quartantine for 14 days when he arrived back to Ireland

Maybe he had a 9 euro pub meal in Brussels and that means he can go straight back to mingling with the public having come from a Covid hotspot

Yes, and I know someone who travelled for a family bereavement and didn't quarantine for 14 days.

Difference is, that was essential travel in both cases.

Risk management is different from risk elimination.

James Brown · 30-07-2020 02:26PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and I know someone who travelled for a family bereavement and didn't quarantine for 14 days.

Difference is, that was essential travel in both cases.

Risk management is different from risk elimination.

So they shouldn't self isolate for 14 days upon return? Did Covid number 19 say this was okay?

blanch152 · 30-07-2020 02:34PM

Bowie wrote: »

So they shouldn't self isolate for 14 days upon return? Did Covid number 19 say this was okay?

Well, yes, I have explained the difference between essential and non-essential travel in the main thread on this.

If you have been following the issue carefully (away from the let's just criticise FG bubble) you will be aware of all of the nuances.

I'm not black and white on public policy issues in the way that you are.

James Brown · 30-07-2020 02:45PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, yes, I have explained the difference between essential and non-essential travel in the main thread on this.

If you have been following the issue carefully (away from the let's just criticise FG bubble) you will be aware of all of the nuances.

I'm not black and white on public policy issues in the way that you are.

They should either self isolate for 14 days or not. There are zero exceptions. The covid number 19 won't distinguish between business or pleasure.
Seems to me you're giving a yes/no. Doesn't work like that with health, it's not politics.

Limpy · 30-07-2020 02:45PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, yes, I have explained the difference between essential and non-essential travel in the main thread on this.

If you have been following the issue carefully (away from the let's just criticise FG bubble) you will be aware of all of the nuances.

I'm not black and white on public policy issues in the way that you are.

Its not about what you or someone says is essential. That's just your opinion. What matters is what the science says. Is MM or someone attending a funeral abroad at less risk then a regular passenger?

Answer me that blanc with facts.

blanch152 · 30-07-2020 02:58PM

Bowie wrote: »

They should either self isolate for 14 days or not. There are zero exceptions. The covid number 19 won't distinguish between business or pleasure.
Seems to me you're giving a yes/no. Doesn't work like that with health, it's not politics.

Limpy wrote: »

Its not about what you or someone says is essential. That's just your opinion. What matters is what the science says. Is MM or someone attending a funeral abroad at less risk then a regular passenger?

Answer me that blanc with facts.

Well, no the public health advice is against non-essential travel.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

"Why we don't have a blanket ban on travel?
Ireland depends on ports and airports for supply chains. We need to keep airports and travel routes open.

Some people need to travel for essential reasons.

This might be:

for essential work
to care for family members abroad
to return home"

So Micheal Martin can travel for work to Brussels.

So it is not true to state that there are zero exceptions, it is a false statement. You are entitled to hold the opinion that there should be no exceptions, but the fact is that there are exceptions.

Apologies about the funeral reference, I think we all agree it is wrong to leave the jurisdiction for a funeral, particularly a non-family funeral.

James Brown · 30-07-2020 03:13PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, no the public health advice is against non-essential travel.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html

"Why we don't have a blanket ban on travel?
Ireland depends on ports and airports for supply chains. We need to keep airports and travel routes open.

Some people need to travel for essential reasons.

This might be:

for essential work
to care for family members abroad
to return home"

So Micheal Martin can travel for work to Brussels.

So it is not true to state that there are zero exceptions, it is a false statement. You are entitled to hold the opinion that there should be no exceptions, but the fact is that there are exceptions.

Apologies about the funeral reference, I think we all agree it is wrong to leave the jurisdiction for a funeral, particularly a non-family funeral.

Do you think people coming from abroad should self isolate for 14 days? Covid doesn't treat people differently based on whether you support them of not.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2020 04:06PM

Neasa Hourigan has resigned as Green Party whip after she voted against the government.

James Brown · 30-07-2020 04:09PM

And now this...

The Dáil's Business Committee is to discuss a request for time to be set aside in the Dáil to put questions to Minister for Social Protection Heather Humphreys, following a statement from the Data Protection Commission which raises doubts about whether welfare inspectors acted lawfully at airports.

Social Democrats TD Gary Gannon has written to the committee as well as to Ceann Comhairle Seán Ó Fearghaíl saying this is a matter of "utmost concern and one that deserves to be dealt with in the Dáil immediately".
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0730/1156514-pup-dpc/

In the rush to scapregoat people they really seemed to have fupped up.
HH still has the passing of the animal cruelty letter on the horizon too.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2020 04:11PM

Bowie wrote: »

And now this...

In the rush to scapregoat people they really seemed to have fupped up.
HH still has the passing of the animal cruelty letter on the horizon too.

No wonder Humphries looked she had been crying or something the last couple of days. Looks like the government have been acting illegally.

Muahahaha · 30-07-2020 04:14PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, and I know someone who travelled for a family bereavement and didn't quarantine for 14 days.

Difference is, that was essential travel in both cases.

Risk management is different from risk elimination.

The virus doesnt distinguish from people who are attempting to practice risk elinimation over those attempting to practice risk elimination

blanch152 wrote: »

So Micheal Martin can travel for work to Brussels.

Thats not under dispute, he went for essential business even if it did mean going looking for Covid bailout and coming back actually owing money. Our civil servants in the EU clearly didnt do too good a job there, Spains civil servants did a fantastic job.

Martin goes to Belgium, essential travel, fine. But where does the travel advice say that if you come back from a non-greenlist country you do not have to quarantine for 14 days? Because all I can see is the following

Anyone arriving into Ireland from these locations will not have to restrict their movements.

Passengers from any other location not on this list are asked to restrict their movements for 14 days.

It is not saying that if you went to a non greenlist country for essential travel that you then have permission to forgo the 14 days quarantine.

Is there somewhere it does say that? Because if there isnt then Martin is breaking the very same rules set down by the FFG government.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2020 04:16PM

Surely Hourigan should be expelled now for breaking the whip?

LawBoy2018 · 30-07-2020 04:19PM

I smell a new party brewing! Delighted for Hourigan. The Greens would never give her the boot, without her, Martin is their only female TD.

Limpy · 30-07-2020 04:22PM

Will HH snake out the back door, will she say I'l get back to you, or will she answer the questions honestly and out the matter to bed. Either way is it on YouTube id like to see it.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2020 04:23PM

Do we really need another left wing party?

The Social Democrats sort of fills that void along with People Before Profit etc.

A Left Green Party perhaps.

LawBoy2018 · 30-07-2020 04:23PM

Limpy wrote: »

Will HH snake out the back door, will she say I'l get back to you, or will she answer the questions honestly and out the matter to bed. Either way is it on YouTube id like to see it.

https://twitter.com/OireachtasNews/status/1288844947232362497

LawBoy2018 · 30-07-2020 04:28PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Do we really need another left wing party?

The Social Democrats sort of fills that void along with People Before Profit etc.

A Left Green Party perhaps.

A left Green Party, precisely. A Green Party without Ryan as leader, ideally.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2020 04:30PM

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

A left Green Party, precisely. A Green Party without Ryan as leader, ideally.

That won't change the Greens still being in government. Catherine Martin has signed up to it now. She's stuck now.

McMurphy · 30-07-2020 04:33PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

No wonder Humphries looked she had been crying or something the last couple of days. Looks like the government have been acting illegally.

As soon as I heard about the guards questioning folk in the airport under "immigration queries" and these same folk got their pup stopped, I thought they were on dodgy ground tbh.

MrMusician18 · 30-07-2020 04:34PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Do we really need another left wing party?

The Social Democrats sort of fills that void along with People Before Profit etc.

A Left Green Party perhaps.

No, we don't need one. Doesn't mean we won't get one though.

Limpy · 30-07-2020 04:36PM

McMurphy wrote: »

As soon as I heard about the guards questioning folk in the airport under "immigration queries" and these same folk got their pup stopped, I thought they were on dodgy ground tbh.

Also around the same time the super junior's Only took 10k of a raise instead of 16k. This government are a great laugh. All in one pond this time so no blaming the other, this time they need to back each other.

McMurphy · 30-07-2020 04:41PM

Limpy wrote: »

Also around the same time the super junior's Only took 10k of a raise instead of 16k. This government are a great laugh. All in one pond this time so no blaming the other, this time they need to back each other.

It is going exactly how many of us predicted it would, albeit a little bit quicker than many of us envisaged it might.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, and one will ultimately canabalise the other.

is_that_so · 30-07-2020 04:45PM

McMurphy wrote: »

It is going exactly how many of us predicted it would, albeit a little bit quicker than many of us envisaged it might.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum, and one will ultimately canabalise the other.

The Greens may well pull it down first. Neasa again, not sure what side she's on!

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0730/1156516-neasa-vote/

FF/FG/Green Next Government

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