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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #3632
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Treppen wrote: »
    It just makes them feel better when others are made to feel worse

    The problem with this type of bullying is that it never actually works out. They still have to go to bed at night and know that they’re just utter c**ts.


  • #3633
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Have yet to see anyone saying it was OK to leave three kids under the age of three alone in an apartment away from where the parents were eating and drinking out of sight or hearing of the little kids.

    Sorry now but that is not normal no matter what anyone says in response.

    And the irony is that kids and babies are SO welcome everywhere in such areas.


  • #3634
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    ODFOK dear.

    Get a life and concentrate on the reality that happened in PdL that night.

    Any comment on the fact that if the parents had cocooned their babies within their sight, the loss of Madeleine would never have happened, would it?

    Gwan now.

    Get a life, from the person who came onto the thread while today’s news and updates on the case were being discussed just to regurgitate a point that was first made about an hour after Madeleine went missing in May 2007.
    A point that you repeat at least once a day, particularly when the conversation moves on to the stacked up evidence against CB.
    But I need to get a life.... right.

    I don’t have a comment because I’ve already made more than enough posts on the matter, it’s been rehashed, done to death, and isn’t interesting to me.

    Your obsessive efforts to persecute them at every turn while absolving the violent convicted rapist and pedophile who likely abducted Madeleine of any responsibility is mind blowing, but clear for everyone to see.

    However I’m just shooting the breeze here, I have no interest in getting personal like you just did.
    Some of us just find it in poor taste and unnecessary to see others speak so nastily and callously about two people who have had their lives ruined, but please don’t let that stop you.
    As you were.


  • #3635
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Get a life, from the person who came onto the thread while today’s news and updates on the case were being discussed just to regurgitate a point that was first made about an hour after Madeleine went missing in May 2007.
    A point that you repeat at least once a day, particularly when the conversation moves on to the stacked up evidence against CB.
    But I need to get a life.... right.

    I don’t have a comment because I’ve already made more than enough posts on the matter, it’s been rehashed, done to death, and isn’t interesting to me.

    Your obsessive efforts to persecute them at every turn while absolving the violent convicted rapist and pedophile who likely abducted Madeleine of any responsibility is mind blowing, but clear for everyone to see.

    However I’m just shooting the breeze here, I have no interest in getting personal like you just did.
    Some of us just find it in poor taste and unnecessary to see others speak so nastily and callously about two people who have had their lives ruined, but please don’t let that stop you.
    As you were.

    The bottom line is, if the parents had the kids with them there would have been NO abduction. Babies in buggies and kids are just so welcome in such places.


  • #3636
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The bottom line is, if the parents had the kids with them there would have been NO abduction. Babies in buggies and kids are just so welcome in such places.

    Yes that is true, it was true 13 years ago and it is true today..

    Now, moving on.....

    Do you think the police will find something in their search in Germany related to Madeline?

    Do you think he brought her all the way to Germany?


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  • #3637
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,412 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The bottom line is, if the parents had the kids with them there would have been NO abduction. Babies in buggies and kids are just so welcome in such places.

    Enjoy your sleep this evening you absolute perfect human being.

    Must be pure bliss.

    You should consider writing a book. Maybe a blog. You have followers already it seems.


  • #3638
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    At the end of the day the parents are responsible for the safety of their children, there is no way out of that really.

    A mistake can happen, but not five or whatever nights in a row.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The parents were at fault here.

    If the child was abducted it was because she was left alone.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    And you are absolving the parents of the same thing, you know those who went drinking night after night. But that's ok for you, but most parents would not do it.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    ODFOK dear.

    Get a life and concentrate on the reality that happened in PdL that night.

    Any comment on the fact that if the parents had cocooned their babies within their sight, the loss of Madeleine would never have happened, would it?

    Gwan now.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Have yet to see anyone saying it was OK to leave three kids under the age of three alone in an apartment away from where the parents were eating and drinking out of sight or hearing of the little kids.

    Sorry now but that is not normal no matter what anyone says in response.

    And the irony is that kids and babies are SO welcome everywhere in such areas.
    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The bottom line is, if the parents had the kids with them there would have been NO abduction. Babies in buggies and kids are just so welcome in such places.

    Drop the comments about the parents and any responsibility they may have - that has been done to death repeatedly on this site

    The current discussion is about recent developments and in particular the claims that a German national was involved


  • #3639
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,129 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Rock77 wrote: »
    Yes that is true, it was true 13 years ago and it is true today..

    Now, moving on.....

    Do you think the police will find something in their search in Germany related to Madeline?

    Do you think he brought her all the way to Germany?

    What do you think? Seems possible but awful if you get me. Not sure at all, but DNA will help in the worst case scenario. Brace for that.


  • #3640
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    I wonder what motivated them to dig that particular property and so thoroughly? It’s entirely possible that either Bruekner or someone very close to him has sent them there.
    Either that or there was information on the USB sticks that led them there.


  • #3641
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    What do you think? Seems possible but awful if you get me. Not sure at all, but DNA will help in the worst case scenario. Brace for that.

    I think they found something about Madeline on a usb belonging to CB. I think they will find more of the same in Germany.. I don’t think he brought her to Germany.


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  • #3642
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Big long rant I can’t make sense of. But I can gather from it that “morality”is not what you think it is, neither is “kangaroo court” and the notion of “innocent till proven guilty” went right over your head.

    Who made you judge and jury? You are seriously annoying me now so give it a rest.


  • #3643
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I wonder what motivated them to dig that particular property and so thoroughly? It’s entirely possible that either Bruekner or someone very close to him has sent them there.
    Either that or there was information on the USB sticks that led them there.

    Could be a tip off from the appeals made recently from past friends or ppl close to CB. CB seems to have rented a lot of properties and vehicles so no wonder he’s been so elusive but surely there is a paper trail of his hires and rental agreements and this would lead to new sites to investigate.


  • #3644
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Rock77 wrote: »
    I think they found something about Madeline on a usb belonging to CB. I think they will find more of the same in Germany.. I don’t think he brought her to Germany.

    I think it is plausible he brought her to Germany, they haven’t found anything from her in PDL or surrounding areas, he was well gone by the time they started to spread the search throughout Europe and remember they weren’t looking for him or any mode of his transport then either.


  • #3645
    Rock77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭Rock77


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    I think it is plausible he brought her to Germany, they haven’t found anything from her in PDL or surrounding areas, he was well gone by the time they started to spread the search throughout Europe and remember they weren’t looking for him or any mode of his transport then either.

    I agree, it’s definitely plausible. However I don’t think he brought her to Germany..


  • #3646
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Rock77 wrote: »
    I agree, it’s definitely plausible. However I don’t think he brought her to Germany..

    What to do think or where?


  • #3647
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Every news station in the world have confirmed the cellar. No one is jumping to any conclusions. The fact that a paedophile rapist now being linked to a number of missing children including the most famous one had a hidden cellar is big news. Stop trying to downplay it.

    Plus there was this bit in an article
    Last month a former friend of Brueckner reportedly claimed the kidnap suspect told him he had a cellar at a different property which he wanted to line with metal sheets 'like Josef Fritzl's'.

    If true that would suggest CB was an admirer of what Fritzl did and wanted to replicate it, it could have been his intention to hold a child captive in a bunker. From memory of the Frizel case there was a copycat found about a year later, simiilar set up with young girls held captive in a basement. I think it was in Israel but open to correction on that, it got nowhere near the coverage that Fritizl got at the time, mainly because the manner of Fritzels crime was one that was never known to the public before so hence made worldwide news.


  • #3648
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    https://twitter.com/mwilliamsthomas/status/1288595163426820100?s=19


  • #3649
    TheQuietBeatle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭TheQuietBeatle


    Most likely they got a tip off he used live there and it had a cellar. Enough reason alone to search it.

    I didnt have high hopes they'd find anything but was wishing they would.


  • #3650
    WildWater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 775 ✭✭✭WildWater


    If it was CB then, I think the possibility of him bringing her to Germany is all down to whether the abduction was opportunist or the intent. If it was opportunist then no, I don't think he would have brought her to Germany. In such a scenario, I think it unlikely that poor Madeleine survived beyond a few hours.

    However, if abduction was his intent that night, then yes he easily could have. I would even suggest that if he wanted to keep her alive, then getting to Germany was probably the least riskiest move for him to make. He would have been out of Portugal before the PJ even arrive on scene and perhaps out of Spain by the time the world was waking up the news.

    If abduction was the intent he was likely planning for it for months if not years. Thus, if the plan was to get to Germany, then he would have had the camper fully equipped for his journey. Including, I would expect, extra containers of fuel so that he would not have to stop at a filling station for a long time. Perhaps not at all. Also, he would have been very fired up and I think it possible that he could have driven the whole way without any or with very little sleep.

    This case is famous for its lack of definitive evidence for anything, including an abduction. Thus for me, the key question to ask is what type of scenario is most likely to leave the least amount of evidence at the resort, in PDL or even in Portugal? For me, that is a planned scenario with a clear getaway plan that involves getting perpetrator and Madeleine the hell out of, and as far away from, PDL as quickly as possible.

    Take a good plan, factor in the complete shambles by the PJ of not securing the crime scene, the ‘luck' of not being definitively spotted and you have all you need for an evidence free crime. We know the latter two occurred.


  • #3651
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    If I was investigating this guy Christian B, I would definitely check out every place he ever lived.

    And he was a drifter and wanderer, turning up here and there in cars and vans and staying in various places.

    Tedious as it sounds, it would be wise to check out, and thoroughly search, every place he has ever been associated with.
    He is a lifelong habitual criminal: you just can't afford to NOT check every single location.

    I fear they may not have found much in today's diggings, but it had to be done. Can't ignore a cellar, even if the only things found in it had been very old potatoes!


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  • #3652
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,861 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    WildWater wrote: »
    If it was CB then, I think the possibility of him bringing her to Germany is all down to whether the abduction was opportunist or the intent. If it was opportunist then no, I don't think he would have brought her to Germany. In such a scenario, I think it unlikely that poor Madeleine survived beyond a few hours.

    However, if abduction was his intent that night, then yes he easily could have. I would even suggest that if he wanted to keep her alive, then getting to Germany was probably the least riskiest move for him to make. He would have been out of Portugal before the PJ even arrive on scene and perhaps out of Spain by the time the world was waking up the news.

    If abduction was the intent he was likely planning for it for months if not years. Thus, if the plan was to get to Germany, then he would have had the camper fully equipped for his journey. Including, I would expect, extra containers of fuel so that he would not have to stop at a filling station for a long time. Perhaps not at all. Also, he would have been very fired up and I think it possible that he could have driven the whole way without any or with very little sleep.

    This case is famous for its lack of definitive evidence for anything, including an abduction. Thus for me, the key question to ask is what type of scenario is most likely to leave the least amount of evidence at the resort, in PDL or even in Portugal? For me, that is a planned scenario with a clear getaway plan that involves getting perpetrator and Madeleine the hell out of, and as far away from, PDL as quickly as possible.

    Take a good plan, factor in the complete shambles by the PJ of not securing the crime scene, the ‘luck' of not being definitively spotted and you have all you need for an evidence free crime. We know the latter two occurred.


    Just reading news articles, one which says “German police say they have solid evidence about the involvement of a German citizen in the child’s disappearance”. I don’t know anything obviously about German law, but here Gardai would need a search warrant just to rock up and start digging or searching on a premises... that would only be obtained from a court. A warrant would be obtainable in Germany...”The public prosecutor’s office can order police searches of houses for the purpose of obtaining evidence for criminal proceedings. House searches are regulated by §§ 102 & 103 StPO (Code of Criminal Procedure) and it refers to both the seizure of suspects and the seizure of evidence.” That’s from the German statute books.


  • #3653
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    WildWater wrote: »
    If it was CB then, I think the possibility of him bringing her to Germany is all down to whether the abduction was opportunist or the intent. If it was opportunist then no, I don't think he would have brought her to Germany. In such a scenario, I think it unlikely that poor Madeleine survived beyond a few hours.

    However, if abduction was his intent that night, then yes he easily could have. I would even suggest that if he wanted to keep her alive, then getting to Germany was probably the least riskiest move for him to make. He would have been out of Portugal before the PJ even arrive on scene and perhaps out of Spain by the time the world was waking up the news.

    If abduction was the intent he was likely planning for it for months if not years. Thus, if the plan was to get to Germany, then he would have had the camper fully equipped for his journey. Including, I would expect, extra containers of fuel so that he would not have to stop at a filling station for a long time. Perhaps not at all. Also, he would have been very fired up and I think it possible that he could have driven the whole way without any or with very little sleep.

    This case is famous for its lack of definitive evidence for anything, including an abduction. Thus for me, the key question to ask is what type of scenario is most likely to leave the least amount of evidence at the resort, in PDL or even in Portugal? For me, that is a planned scenario with a clear getaway plan that involves getting perpetrator and Madeleine the hell out of, and as far away from, PDL as quickly as possible.

    Take a good plan, factor in the complete shambles by the PJ of not securing the crime scene, the ‘luck' of not being definitively spotted and you have all you need for an evidence free crime. We know the latter two occurred.

    Excellent analysis. I concur with every element.

    Along most continental motorways there are rest stops - not filling stations where there might be cameras, but picnic areas, with tables and a place to park up. If it was pre-planned he could have had the required fuel with him, pull into a rest stop, top up the fuel, brew some coffee and get on the road again.

    Not getting caught would be enough incentive for him to drive almost constantly, and as you point out, he'd probably be pretty fired up anyway.


  • #3654
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,861 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Yes, excellent and very plausible theory. Body could have been covered by canisters in the boot and maybe more fuel canisters on the roof rack in bags to not look suss.


  • #3655
    Montageofhell
    Site Banned Posts: 64 ✭✭Montageofhell


    I'm just wondering how it could be pre-planned? How did he know Madeleine would be left all alone? Even if he spotted the previous evenings that this was happening, how would he know that the families holiday was over or they took the kids with them to the dinner or they decided not to go out? It just doesn't make sense. There could have been someone within the hotel letting him know but again, why and how could they know for sure about checks on the kids and if the plans had changed?


  • #3656
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Montageofhell wrote: »
    I'm just wondering how it could be pre-planned? How did he know Madeleine would be left all alone? Even if he spotted the previous evenings that this was happening, how would he know that the families holiday was over or they took the kids with them to the dinner or they decided not to go out? It just doesn't make sense. There could have been someone within the hotel letting him know but again, why and how could they know for sure about checks on the kids and if the plans had changed?

    Maybe it was pre planned that he would take a child, not specifically Madeleine. He could have been scoping out a few different targets for any amount of time beforehand. Saw an opportunity and went for it.


  • #3657
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Montageofhell wrote: »
    I'm just wondering how it could be pre-planned? How did he know Madeleine would be left all alone? Even if he spotted the previous evenings that this was happening, how would he know that the families holiday was over or they took the kids with them to the dinner or they decided not to go out? It just doesn't make sense. There could have been someone within the hotel letting him know but again, why and how could they know for sure about checks on the kids and if the plans had changed?

    That came up in one of the documentaries. It turns out the tapas bar crowd had booked the same table for the week of the holiday and their reservation was written in a book in the reception that all staff had access to. So maybe CB got a tip off. The tip off may have been "That would be a good time for a burglary", but CB got a different idea.


  • #3658
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Montageofhell wrote: »
    I'm just wondering how it could be pre-planned? How did he know Madeleine would be left all alone? Even if he spotted the previous evenings that this was happening, how would he know that the families holiday was over or they took the kids with them to the dinner or they decided not to go out? It just doesn't make sense. There could have been someone within the hotel letting him know but again, why and how could they know for sure about checks on the kids and if the plans had changed?

    The Mc Canns & Co had been doing this for a few nights so the element of risk was always going to be there for CB but that night he decided to go for it with the phone call I’m sure he was told what’s happening and the checks were regular as clock work. In and out of the apartment and carried her away while she was sleeping without waking her up. This is possible because the twins never woke up during all the commotion so they must of been given a heavy sedative so Madeleine presumably has true same which aided the abductor accidentally by the parents and there was no child screaming or anything cause she was out cold. If they didn’t wake during all that commotion Madeline wouldn’t of some by just being carried away.


  • #3659
    Banana Republic.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That came up in one of the documentaries. It turns out the tapas bar crowd had booked the same table for the week of the holiday and their reservation was written in a book in the reception that all staff had access to. So maybe CB got a tip off. The tip off may have been "That would be a good time for a burglary", but CB got a different idea.

    He had spoken before of taking a little thing to use for a few days so this was his golden opportunity.


  • #3660
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Banana Republic. wrote: »
    The Mc Canns & Co had been doing this for a few nights so the element of risk was always going to be there for CB but that night he decided to go for it with the phone call I’m sure he was told what’s happening and the checks were regular as clock work. In and out of the apartment and carried her away while she was sleeping without waking her up. This is possible because the twins never woke up during all the commotion so they must of been given a heavy sedative so Madeleine presumably has true same which aided the abductor accidentally by the parents and there was no child screaming or anything cause she was out cold. If they didn’t wake during all that commotion Madeline wouldn’t of some by just being carried away.

    This is what I think happened. Whether it was CB or not I don't know. But I think the kids were given calpol or something else. Then an intruder took Madeleine.


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  • #3661
    Montageofhell
    Site Banned Posts: 64 ✭✭Montageofhell


    Redordeadqwwer wrote: »
    Maybe it was pre planned that he would take a child, not specifically Madeleine. He could have been scoping out a few different targets for any amount of time beforehand. Saw an opportunity and went for it.

    How did he see an opportunity? Decided to check apartment to see if they were unlocked and hoped a child would be left alone inside?


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