The decline continues

IRE60 · 12-06-2020 9:37pm

That was a feature to cover the C19 sales period, according to them...however...

I can see everything going tits up. On News UK, their last cert said you can email a request for the figures. Still.....waiting........!

Muahahaha · 15-06-2020 11:11am

Id imagine the Indo and others are keeping close tabs on the ongoing Facebook/Google vs. the Australian print media case. The publishers are trying to establish a new system whereby Facebook pays them when their content gets shared.

Facebook are playing hard ball saying that if they got rid of all news from their site there would be no significant impact on their business. Also read a claim that in 3 months Facebook 'facilitated' 3 billion click throughs to Aussie news media sites which would have led to $195m in advertising revenues for them, according to Facebook themselves.

It seems to me like something is going to give here and it could be then used as a model worldwide if Facebook relent in Australia. The default position of the Australian media industry and government seems to be that something has to change, as like here they have had big job losses in media and the closure of lots of local newspapers.

Would imagine if Facebook come to a deal to pay to share content European titles will seek to do similar. Remains to be seen if such a system would pass muster with EU competition law, Facebooks claim is that they would be forced to subsidise websites that they are also competing against for advertising spends.

bcklschaps · 15-06-2020 11:20am

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm not sure what is going on with the Indo website but they have match reports from euro2012?

There's no current sport....and they have no staff to write about it even if there was. Soo they have some spotty intern dredging through their 'archive' to pull out some 'classics' to fill the newspaper/website.

jmcc · 15-06-2020 12:21pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Id imagine the Indo and others are keeping close tabs on the ongoing Facebook/Google vs. the Australian print media case. The publishers are trying to establish a new system whereby Facebook pays them when their content gets shared.

This is the kind of Google/EvilCorp scumbaggery that will give newspaper and other media publishers sleepless nights:

https://hackernoon.com/how-wikipedia-lost-3-billion-organic-search-visits-to-google-in-2019-qz6630u6

Regards...jmcc

expectationlost · 16-06-2020 12:29am

Muahahaha wrote: »

Id imagine the Indo and others are keeping close tabs on the ongoing Facebook/Google vs. the Australian print media case. The publishers are trying to establish a new system whereby Facebook pays them when their content gets shared.

Facebook are playing hard ball saying that if they got rid of all news from their site there would be no significant impact on their business. Also read a claim that in 3 months Facebook 'facilitated' 3 billion click throughs to Aussie news media sites which would have led to $195m in advertising revenues for them, according to Facebook themselves.

It seems to me like something is going to give here and it could be then used as a model worldwide if Facebook relent in Australia. The default position of the Australian media industry and government seems to be that something has to change, as like here they have had big job losses in media and the closure of lots of local newspapers.

Would imagine if Facebook come to a deal to pay to share content European titles will seek to do similar. Remains to be seen if such a system would pass muster with EU competition law, Facebooks claim is that they would be forced to subsidise websites that they are also competing against for advertising spends.

the wonderful australian press, we couldn't lose it and its contribution to democracy https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jun/14/journalists-at-the-age-express-alarm-over-increasing-politicisation-and-loss-of-independence

expectationlost · 26-06-2020 7:08pm

i Newspaper Available on the Irish Market From Tomorrow https://www.adworld.ie/2020/06/19/dmg-media-ireland-is-to-launch-the-i-newspaper-on-the-irish-market-tomorrow-june-20th/ are many going to buy this?

IRE60 · 26-06-2020 7:48pm

expectationlost wrote: »

i Newspaper Available on the Irish Market From Tomorrow https://www.adworld.ie/2020/06/19/dmg-media-ireland-is-to-launch-the-i-newspaper-on-the-irish-market-tomorrow-june-20th/ are many going to buy this?

Some fcuking necks. its 65p in the UK M-S and £1.20 on Sunday. Cant understand that. It's a crowded, declining and expensive market as it stands. There will be 13 Papers on the Newstands in the morning now!

L1011 · 26-06-2020 7:50pm

I saw one and was wondering when they'd (re?) introduced it.

Loafing Oaf · 19-07-2020 1:18am

Hugh Linehan scrutinising the Guardian's decision to slash its Saturday offering here. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/guardian-axing-its-popular-saturday-supplements-is-an-odd-decision-1.4306166
He really gets to the nub of that paper's predicament:

But with the Guardian, it has seemed at times as if the company wanted to accelerate the demise of its printed newspaper so that it could become purely digital as soon as possible.

This bold strategy would be more impressive if it weren’t for the fact that the Guardian has lost vast amounts of money in pursuit of it and would be insolvent by now if it hadn’t been able to draw on the substantial reserves held by its parent company.

JTMan · 20-07-2020 6:12pm

The magazine sector is particularly screwed ...

Q magazine to fold after 34 years. Article here.

In May, its owner Bauer Media had put the title under review along with a number of others in its portfolio, as sales and advertising revenues diminished during the coronavirus pandemic. “The pandemic and lockdown has further accelerated the trends already affecting the publishing industry,” Chris Duncan, the chief executive of UK publishing, said when announcing the plans. Its circulation had dwindled to 28,359, with less than half of that coming from newsstand sales, compared with a peak of more than 200,000 in 2001.

Beechwoodspark · 22-07-2020 9:54am

Would buy Q maybe 3 times a year and always a good read. I found myself gravitating more towards mojo and uncut in recent years as Q seemed to go down the pop route a bit more, maybe that’s just me getting older!

I particularly enjoyed their end of year issue with albums of the year count down.

I remember they did a great article about U2 and dublin a few years back too.

sad to see it fold.

Surprised they havnt started up a subscription based app instead?

JTMan · 22-07-2020 10:20am

A lot of magazines have digital subscription options but most have only achieved very low digital subscription numbers. Not enough to even slightly negate print decline.

JTMan · 23-07-2020 6:51pm

INM sells its 50% stake in Irish Daily Star to Reach. More here.

The consolidation trend in the declining newspaper market continues.

L1011 · 23-07-2020 6:55pm

The Irish Daily Mirror is fairly skeleton isn't it? Merged newsrooms would be the obvious thing there; the Star's remaining selling point is sports.

JTMan · 23-07-2020 7:24pm

Yeah, Reach merged the Express, Mirror and Star pressrooms in the UK after the acquisition there. One would guess that something similar will happen here.

At it's speak, The Irish Daily Star had circulation of 110k per day, it is now 32k per day.

Consolidation buys time.

Loafing Oaf · 26-07-2020 10:00pm

Interesting piece by John Burns about what's starting to look like a stampede by journalists into government jobs, presumably prompted by the recent defections by Fiach Kelly, deputy political editor of The Irish Times, and Susan Mitchell, deputy editor of the Business Post.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/is-journalism-no-longer-a-vocation-and-now-just-a-job-gn7hwp9jc?shareToken=3e7016c9eb98879659fe4d73f49087de

Although if, as Burns notes, this trend can be seen as "a symptom of industry decline", you'd wonder how much 'press' there will be left for these guys to advise government ministers on in the years to come.:p

strandroad · 26-07-2020 10:03pm

The Irish Garden magazine suspended publishing until the new year. Apparently their sales actually increased but advertisers were hit hard and could not commit. A supermarket stand staple gone...

dulpit · 26-07-2020 10:18pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Interesting piece by John Burns about what's starting to look like a stampede by journalists into government jobs, presumably prompted by the recent defections by Fiach Kelly, deputy political editor of The Irish Times, and Susan Mitchell, deputy editor of the Business Post.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/is-journalism-no-longer-a-vocation-and-now-just-a-job-gn7hwp9jc?shareToken=3e7016c9eb98879659fe4d73f49087de

Although if, as Burns notes, this trend can be seen as "a symptom of industry decline", you'd wonder how much 'press' there will be left for these guys to advise government ministers on in the years to come.:p

Where is Fiach Kelly going? Hadn't heard anything..

Loafing Oaf · 26-07-2020 10:25pm

dulpit wrote: »

Where is Fiach Kelly going? Hadn't heard anything..

Press adviser to Helen McEntee

dulpit · 27-07-2020 10:18am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Press adviser to Helen McEntee

Shame. Good for him I guess, but I enjoyed his work.

Loafing Oaf · 27-07-2020 10:28am

This trend first struck me a few years ago when Chris Donoghue left Newstalk to work as an advisor for Simon Coveney. I mean here was a guy who you would think would have had his pick of positions in radio leaving the sector for what I would have regarded as a 'boring civil service job'.

Presumably job security is a major factor driving the trend but wasn't this always an issue to some extent in the media? As Burns says, better pay and conditions must also be behind it to some extent...

yosser hughes · 27-07-2020 10:58am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

This trend first struck me a few years ago when Chris Donoghue left Newstalk to work as an advisor for Simon Coveney. I mean here was a guy who you would think would have had his pick of positions in radio leaving the sector for what I would have regarded as a 'boring civil service job'.

Presumably job security is a major factor driving the trend but wasn't this always an issue to some extent in the media? As Burns says, better pay and conditions must also be behind it to some extent...

Really? I thought he was a complete lightweight and came across as very wet behind the ears. Not to mind his inability to be impartial but that doesn't seem to matter these days. I don't think anyone else would have been queuing up to offer him anything.
Getting the government gig would have been a massive pay rise for him. Of course he grabbed it with both hands. It's a promotion way beyond his competence. I couldn't believe he was offered it.

J_M_G · 27-07-2020 12:32pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Interesting piece by John Burns about what's starting to look like a stampede by journalists into government jobs, presumably prompted by the recent defections by Fiach Kelly, deputy political editor of The Irish Times, and Susan Mitchell, deputy editor of the Business Post.

Although if, as Burns notes, this trend can be seen as "a symptom of industry decline", you'd wonder how much 'press' there will be left for these guys to advise government ministers on in the years to come.:p

It's almost as if the refrain we've heard all these years from journalists (activists) about how essential they all are for "speaking truth to power!" and how they are an independent force for "protecting our precious democracy!" and are "definitely not just mouthpieces for the establishment in any way!"....

...is looking increasingly clear to anyone paying attention, to have been a giant steaming pile of bs. Are the dissident voices of independent analysts, bloggers, youtubers, etc who routinely oppose the establishment narrative going to be offered any nice cosy jobs in the public sector? I think we all know the answer to that.

The reality is that the entirety of the legacy media was ALWAYS something that paid lip service to holding politicians to account. Sure you can find examples here and there of some exposé of a corrupt minister or what have you. But no serious ideological opposition or even mere questioning of the status quo has existed in a long long time.

Maybe journalism was once a genuine endeavor, independent of the establishment. A fourth estate that reflected the opinions of the populace it purported to represent. That time, if it ever existed, is long gone however. The legacy media can't die quick enough.

Gloomtastic! · 27-07-2020 1:21pm

But surely political advisors only last as long as their political masters. So you might get four/five years work out of it but what then?

J_M_G · 27-07-2020 1:35pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

But surely political advisors only last as long as their political masters. So you might get four/five years work out of it but what then?

Onto the next TD or councillor! When there's little to no ideological difference between them, it's not unrealistic to simply keep hopping from one to the next. And sure if there's no available positions, there's always the NGO fallback. God knows we have a seemingly unlimited supply of those. Many at least partially government funded too. And all essentially ideologically aligned with the progressive liberal orthodoxy of the day. How convenient!

Worst case scenario, five years on the gravy train and a CV that proves your establishment bona fides for your next job hunt isn't too bad a deal if you're a careerist shill like these ex-"journalists". Especially one who has no qualms about trivial things like honesty, integrity or responsibility to something greater than their own personal enrichment.

dulpit · 27-07-2020 2:01pm

J_M_G wrote: »

Especially one who has no qualms about trivial things like honesty, integrity or responsibility to something greater than their own personal enrichment.

Yes, but what do you really feel about this? :pac:

J_M_G · 27-07-2020 2:55pm

dulpit wrote: »

Yes, but what do you really feel about this? :pac:

If I told you how I really feel, I'd be banned instantly.

IRE60 · 27-07-2020 4:00pm

The primary focus of any political advisor is to get their boss re-elected!

Loafing Oaf · 27-07-2020 4:12pm

IRE60 wrote: »

The primary focus of any political advisor is to get their boss re-elected!

Well yeah surely anyone accepting one of these positions is agreeing to toe the party/government line and knows that if they started using it to advance their own political agenda they would be out on their ear quick smart. Rather than 'ideological conformity', I suspect the reason so many of them are offered to former journos, particularly those with editorial experience, is they will have built up a very relevant set of skills for the job.

Anyway, the pertinent question for this thread is not why so many 'special advisor' are offered to former journalists but why so many journalists, even those in prominent roles, have been rushing to take up such positions in recent years. As Burns implies, it does seem to reflect a pervasive loss of confidence in the future of the profession...

IRE60 · 27-07-2020 5:03pm

In summary, the industry in which they plied their trade has 'sh1t the bed'

DrSerious3 · 27-07-2020 5:42pm

My father used to buy a newspaper 7 days a week - he is now down to two. Most of the content of the weekday newspaper is appalling nonsense. Number of pages continues to decrease, as does quality of output. Meanwhile, price goes up. I wonder how many people under 65 buy a paper every day? Minuscule I suspect.

yosser hughes · 27-07-2020 6:21pm

DrSerious3 wrote: »

My father used to buy a newspaper 7 days a week - he is now down to two. Most of the content of the weekday newspaper is appalling nonsense. Number of pages continues to decrease, as does quality of output. Meanwhile, price goes up. I wonder how many people under 65 buy a paper every day? Minuscule I suspect.

My Mother used to get one every day as well. She just gets the Irish Times on a Saturday now.

I subscribe to stuff, patreon, some news magazines and am happy to pay for good content. I don't subscribe to an Irish publication or service though. It's just not good enough I'm afraid. It was never up to much really.

J_M_G · 27-07-2020 7:49pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Anyway, the pertinent question for this thread is not why so many 'special advisor' are offered to former journalists but why so many journalists, even those in prominent roles, have been rushing to take up such positions in recent years. As Burns implies, it does seem to reflect a pervasive loss of confidence in the future of the profession...

Well in that regard can you blame them? They know the end is nigh. ABC circ details are thin on the ground these days but basically all papers are down to less than half their all-time highs and many are pushing 75%+. Even the annual rate of decline was increasing into the double digits. And that was pre-covid.

Print is finished by 2025 for literally every paper in Ireland. Local and national. The math just doesn't add up. There's still more consolidation and cuts and bits and pieces they can do to keep above water but they're walking dead and that's why the rats are fleeing the ship. Most can't sustain any transition to digital-only either. I expect only one or two will bridge that gap and even then they'll be a shadow of their former selves.

This is a good thing. It needs to happen. These rags are utterly toxic now and there's not one single paper that is an exception to that. They all need to and will disappear and the "democracy" they so cherish will actually be the healthier for it.

L1011 · 27-07-2020 7:53pm

Weekday papers will go a long time before weekend editions and weekly locals, I'd expect. Weekly local content does not actually exist anywhere else.

J_M_G · 27-07-2020 9:37pm

L1011 wrote: »

Weekday papers will go a long time before weekend editions and weekly locals, I'd expect. Weekly local content does not actually exist anywhere else.

It does: Facebook.

Local paper circulation declines are in many cases worse than nationals and that's because local papers actually masqueraded for decades as vital, but in reality they're not and never were.

Anything major that happened would be covered by national news (either RTE or any national weekday paper) and the rest was stuff that nobody but the people involved ultimately care about (local sports reporting, etc). It was mostly a social thing that got people to buy the paper. Your kid winning some school award and getting their pic in the paper, some couple celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary and people at it being photographed. This kind of stuff all got usurped by facebook years ago. And people 50+ are all still on facebook and they are the demographic that were propping up local paper sales.

When you actually go through a local paper and you strip out all the ads, tv listings, sport, horoscopes, or utterly trivial local things that nobody actually cares about (as evidenced by them not buying the paper anymore) - there's nothing much left. It was never essential. It was just people buying it to see if anybody they knew was in it that week. Local voyeurism.

But then Facebook became the new way to indulge in that, and far more effectively too. Any local news was either trivial and boring, or big and thus covered more effectively by bigger national media.

And the typical standard of writing and editing - shocking! Grammar mistakes and misspellings left and right. Clunky and disjointed. Awful stuff.

One other reason for local news decline is the homogenisation of local areas across the country. Any distinct regional identity was far more common even just 10 years ago. But more and more, towns and villages are becoming less distinct and starting to resemble one another. Thank multiculturalism, globalism, increased transience and a general decline in social cohesion where people are, bit by bit, identifying less with their local town as a part of their identity. Obviously this process is only in its early stages still so it's not a massive factor, but it is a factor nonetheless imo.

Local papers are all owned by 2 or 3 big companies too. Working off the same boring templates. They're not "local" anymore, at least not like they might once have been. And they all can't resist pushing the liberal progressive angle too. I see it in my own home town. Two papers owned by INM and Iconic (I think). So they take their marching orders from them editorially just like they all do. The opinion pieces are always the same predictable snark and signalling. I'm sure plenty lap it up, but I'm sure many also get turned off and quit buying it.

They'll all go. The national dailies like the mirror, star, herald, etc will go first, but the local weeklies will be next and they'll fall nationwide in very rapid succession. Last to go will be the bigger dailies (independent/IT/etc).

coinop · 28-07-2020 7:05am

Fantastic analysis @J_M_G. The sole reason people bought the local paper years ago was for, as you say, local voyeurism. Nosiness really. Who got married this week, who made their confirmation, who was up in court for drink driving. This has of course all been replaced by Facebook with the added bonus that the busybodies can have their say and comment on the local gossip. Nobody was buying the local paper for Pulitzer Prize winning journalism.

Regarding your second point about the homogenisation of local areas across the country: I couldn't agree more. About 5 years ago I got the urge to travel to different towns down the country and explore Ireland as I felt embarrassed I had lived here my entire life yet barely ventured beyond the Pale. What an eye opener it was, in a disappointing way. Paddypower, Dealz, Lidl, Polish shops, and Chinese takeaways...this is what modern Ireland looks like and every town is the same. You could be parachuted into Castlebar or Clonmel, Roscrea or Roscommon, and you wouldn't know the difference. Even regional accents are sadly disappearing. Pop into the local petrol station and you're more likely to be greeted by a stone faced Polish or Pakistani blow-in rather than a local character. I recommend John Water's "Give Us Back The Bad Roads" for a deeper analysis on the loss of regional flavours in Ireland.

dulpit · 28-07-2020 8:22am

coinop wrote: »

Pop into the local petrol station and you're more likely to be greeted by a stone faced Polish or Pakistani blow-in rather than a local character. I recommend John Water's "Give Us Back The Bad Roads" for a deeper analysis on the loss of regional flavours in Ireland.

Sweet Jesus.

jmcc · 28-07-2020 9:48am

One of the biggest mistakes made by the print media seems to have been to try targeting the permanently outraged demographic. Unfortunately, while they may be permanently outraged and take offence on behalf of others, they just don't buy newspapers. They are too busy voicing their outrage on Facebook/Twitter/WhatsApp etc.

Regards...jmcc

L1011 · 28-07-2020 9:54am

J_M_G wrote: »

It does: Facebook.

Facebook doesn't get the court reports; or all the local sports results in one place. What you get is a disjointed mess of gossip, usually tinged with the rants of whoever posted it.

My local paper is still an independent, not one of the groups. Stack that's delivered weekly would be larger than the six days together of any one of the other papers.

antimatterx · 28-07-2020 10:17am

I actually miss reading physical newspapers, so I have upgrade my Irish Times subscription to also include delivering a Saturday news paper. I'm looking forward to my first issue.

DrSerious3 · 28-07-2020 10:22am

'The Decline Continues' is actually my favourite thread in Boards. I don't know why that is. Very knowledgeable posters maybe!

Loafing Oaf · 28-07-2020 10:32am

J_M_G wrote: »

Well in that regard can you blame them? They know the end is nigh. ABC circ details are thin on the ground these days but basically all papers are down to less than half their all-time highs and many are pushing 75%+. Even the annual rate of decline was increasing into the double digits. And that was pre-covid.

Print is finished by 2025 for literally every paper in Ireland. Local and national. The math just doesn't add up

Well in the long run we are all dead but I'd be hesitant about predicting imminent armageddon for the newspaper industry. After all, people have been talking about it as a dying industry since the turn of the century but it's still hanging in there. I used to wonder why the Daily Mail bothered with an Irish edition when all they could manage was to hold circulation steady at 50K but they're on less than half that now and no sign of them quitting the market. When the Sunday Tribune closed I was sure another few national papers would be following them out the door in short order bit that's nearly a decade ago now...

work · 28-07-2020 10:36am

I've read the Irish Times for years and though far From perfect they seem the closest to journalists. Certainly the level of errors and vacuous articles has increased and will speed their demise. My real worry is with the loss of journalism what will fill the void, a dystopic Trumpian future where we are fed complete lies seems the only outcome.
Another way to look at it would be to ask how can we support independent investigative journalists? I really do not have an answer but this should be a priority.

jmcc · 28-07-2020 10:42am

L1011 wrote: »

What you get is a disjointed mess of gossip, usually tinged with the rants of whoever posted it.

A good description of almost every opinion column in Irish newspapers. The newspapers and Facebook are not really that far apart.

Regards...jmcc

DrSerious3 · 28-07-2020 10:43am

work wrote: »

I've read the Irish Times for years and though far From perfect they seem the closest to journalists. Certainly the level of errors and vacuous articles has increased and will speed their demise. My real worry is with the loss of journalism what will fill the void, a dystopic Trumpian future where we are fed complete lies seems the only outcome.
Another way to look at it would be to ask how can we support independent investigative journalists? I really do not have an answer but this should be a priority.

A lot of people feel that the current media has been bought and paid for for some time and dont really care that they will be gone.

jmcc · 28-07-2020 10:45am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

When the Sunday Tribune closed I was sure another few national papers would be following them out the door in short order bit that's nearly a decade ago now...

You are missing the business angle. The Sunday Tribune was a loss-making operation but its real objective was to act as a deterrent to the Irish Times launching a Sunday edition and to keep the Sunday Times in check. It was supported by IN&M. The IT launched its Saturday edition which is essentially a Sunday edition and sells (or used to) on Sunday as well.

Regards...jmcc

J_M_G · 28-07-2020 11:40am

dulpit wrote: »

Sweet Jesus.

Where's the lie?

Anyway, I'll refrain from making this thread even more political than I already have. Let's get back to focusing on celebrating the ongoing demise of the print media!

J_M_G · 28-07-2020 11:57am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well in the long run we are all dead but I'd be hesitant about predicting imminent armageddon for the newspaper industry. After all, people have been talking about it as a dying industry since the turn of the century but it's still hanging in there. I used to wonder why the Daily Mail bothered with an Irish edition when all they could manage was to hold circulation steady at 50K but they're on less than half that now and no sign of them quitting the market. When the Sunday Tribune closed I was sure another few national papers would be following them out the door in short order bit that's nearly a decade ago now...

Yeah it's true that people had been expecting many to disappear by this point but I think they underestimate just how big their margins were, and just how much fat they have/had to trim. You do run into a wall of fixed costs eventually, but it is remarkable how long a company can survive on seemingly nothing but fumes.

It's interesting to peer into the financials of some of the big public publishers like Reach (god even their name is dumb :rolleyes:) or DMGT in the UK. In the last few years, many have actually increased their circ revenue, despite seeing total sales decline. Simply just increasing the price by a bigger % than they lost the previous year. The problem is that although this creates a vicious cycle of further loss in circulation from price elastic buyers, there's an additional problem that I think is starting to appear very recently. Once you get into the €3+ range, I suspect it's a psychological barrier that will really shed buyers. And many papers, local especially, are getting to that point. Most are already in the €2.50-3.50 range. I think once they're forced to bump the price to the €4+ mark they'll hemorrhage what remains of the customer base. And then it's over.

IRE60 · 28-07-2020 12:15pm

It was always about the margin. Just to retreat a bit the Sunday Trib was saddled with debt, big ticket on that paper at the time. So INM used it to block the Sunday Times and cash strip the business.
Locals - the last regional sold to INM was the Sligo Champion, for €25m! Who knew!

I bang on about this (and for those that are glazing over - forgive me) and why some papers still throw themselves prostrate on the shelves every day to tease the passerby.

The Guardian, at the till, will take an estimated €1.85m this year from the RoI. Take 45% of that in vat and retail margin margin, take a further 15% for disruption and 25% for printing etc. they will take about €320K for doing nothing! No plate changes, no marketing, not sod all!
I'd lie back and think of Blighty for three large!

An Ciarraioch · 28-07-2020 12:17pm

J_M_G wrote: »

Where's the lie?

Anyway, I'll refrain from making this thread even more political than I already have. Let's get back to focusing on celebrating the ongoing demise of the print media!

The immigrants who live here just want to earn enough to pay for rent/mortgage, household bills and to send their kids to school, so blaming them for the decline of provincial towns, when often they help to keep teacher numbers and community organisations healthy, is a bit rich. No, blame planners for taking footfall out of town centres through suburban shopping complexes, and online websites for diverting commerce from local independent stores.

The decline continues

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