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N72 - Mallow Northern Relief Road [refined route options published]

«13

Comments

  • #2
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I have to ask. Is there any planned N72 Fermoy bypass on the table ?


  • #3
    sonnyblack
    Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭sonnyblack


    marno21 wrote: »
    This seems to be back under discussion with the mothballing of the M20 scheme

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bypass-worth-euro90m-to-mallow-339581.html

    I'd be surprised if Mallow gets the jump on Macroom in terms of funding allocation. In terms of bypasses Macroom has been out there for a long time whereas Mallow had the misfortune to be linked to the now dead M20 PPP project. My humble opinion


  • #4
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    sonnyblack wrote: »
    I'd be surprised if Mallow gets the jump on Macroom in terms of funding allocation. In terms of bypasses Macroom has been out there for a long time whereas Mallow had the misfortune to be linked to the now dead M20 PPP project. My humble opinion

    It's a different bypass though. M20 is north-south while this one is east-west.

    Macroom is more important than this scheme for many reasons IMO.


  • #5
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/mallow-bypass-plan-steps-up-a-gear-341702.html


  • #6
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Now back on the table following the re-re-re-mothballing of the M20

    I presume it'll be something similar to the N72 link road that was planned when the preferred route for the M20 was published in 2009.

    364187.JPG


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  • #7
    Deedsie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    When the M20 is finally built will this bypass be incorporated/connected to the motorway?


  • #8
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    the last we heard in 2008, it was cancelled due to ridiculous land costs, due DIRECTLY to the county council zoning land
    The land in question was originally valued at €14.6m in 2005 but after Cork County Council re-zoned the land, it shot up in price to more than €50m by the end of 2007 after An Bord Pleanala had given the green light for a compulsory purchase order to go ahead, he said.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55317780
    and
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/836450m-cost-of-land-halted-road-project-1307962.html

    the half of me is happy to see it, the other half is thinking it should be not built to signal to voters and politicans down in Mallow that they have to get their act together, and that rising house/ land prices is NOT a great thing, this being an example of one stroke too at a local level many getting its rightful come-uppance at national level.


  • #9
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    I presume it'll be something similar to the N72 link road that was planned when the preferred route for the M20 was published in 2009.
    You can't build it that way unless you also build the motorway.


  • #10
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Possible routes are described in this article.


  • #11
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/end-in-sight-for-buttevant-roadworks-406042.html

    Feasability studies are to start on this 'before the end of the year'.

    It's nice to see some initiative being taken here and this project being rushed. One year from being announced and we're at the 'planned feasability study' stage. **** sake.


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  • #12
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Confirmed by TII's Dominic Mullaney that a feasability study is ongoing as to the viability of this scheme. If it's decided it will go ahead, there is provision for it in the Capital plan, and will move to planning & land acquisition in 2017.


  • #13
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    On the topic of the Mallow Northern Relief Road, the meeting heard that it is on the current Capital Investment Programme and it is awaiting a further study before a ‘rigorous appraisal’ of its feasibility, said Cllr O’Flynn.

    “The northern relief road could go ahead without the M20, it could be a standalone project and then it could fit in with the M20. There is a great need for that road, it would have major benefits for the future economic development of Mallow, Fermoy and Mitchelstown,” he said.

    https://avondhupress.ie/cork-representatives-meet-transport-minister-roads-issues/

    Expect little or no movement on this soon.


  • #14
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    So just talking about it then. wonderful


  • #15
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Discussion on this scheme on C103 today, from 16 minutes in: https://soundcloud.com/cork103/cork-today-fri-6th-oct-2017


  • #16
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://johnpauloshea.ie/mallow-traffic-congestion-end-northern-relief-road-moves-step-closer-fruition/

    To no surprise, the Mallow relief road passed both feasibility studies it underwent in the past 2 years and a number of routes have been published.

    Hopefully the route along the old railway line is selected. The one up by the hospital is quite circuitous.

    I'd imagine this will be bundled in with the M20 scheme and both will be done together as originally planned back in the day


  • #17
    boardsuser1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭boardsuser1


    marno21 wrote: »
    http://johnpauloshea.ie/mallow-traffic-congestion-end-northern-relief-road-moves-step-closer-fruition/

    To no surprise, the Mallow relief road passed both feasibility studies it underwent in the past 2 years and a number of routes have been published.

    Hopefully the route along the old railway line is selected. The one up by the hospital is quite circuitous.

    I'd imagine this will be bundled in with the M20 scheme and both will be done together as originally planned back in the day

    The old railway line is on the West side of Mallow isn’t it?

    Is having both done at the same time, while sensible, even possible?


  • #18
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Cork Truck Driver wrote: »
    The old railway line is on the West side of Mallow isn’t it?

    Is having both done at the same time, while sensible, even possible?

    It runs around the north side of the town. The NRA were going to build a relief road along it except the councillors voted to zone it as residential to increase the compo for their developer buddies. Once the land acquisition costs were worked out the NRA cancelled the job.


  • #19
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tom Stritch confirmed in the Corkman that pending funding, this will proceed to design in 2018. Preferred route by the council is along the old railway with it diverging to meet the N72/N73 near Olivers Cross. It will require a slight deviation from the raiilway route as part of the railway route is built on east of Spa Glen.


  • #20
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    marno21 wrote: »
    Tom Stritch confirmed in the Corkman that pending funding, this will proceed to design in 2018. Preferred route by the council is along the old railway with it diverging to meet the N72/N73 near Olivers Cross. It will require a slight deviation from the raiilway route as part of the railway route is built on east of Spa Glen.
    Article in question

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/council-hopeful-of-approval-for-mallow-relief-road-in-new-year-36425546.html


  • #21
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Latest from the council:
    N72 Mallow Northern Relief Road (4.0kms): An allocation of €300,000 is available in 2018.
    JACOBS has completed a Feasibility Report and is now completing a Project Appraisal Plan.
    Draft Tender Documents for the appointment of Consultants is complete. The appointment
    will enable preparation of document for Scheme Design, Compulsory Purchase Order and
    Environmental Impact Statement and submission of same to An Bord Pleanála.


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  • #22
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cork County Council aiming to have consultants appointed to this by year end. A project appraisal plan was submitted to TII but they weren't satisfied with this so it is being redone. Once approved by TII a tender for consultants will be advertised. The council indicate that once consultants are appointed the project should be ready for An Bord Pleanala within 9 months


  • #23
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Quite a lot of misinformation in this article but if the part about the route is correct then it means a route has been selected. Which will make 2019 easier for design & EIS

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/its-an-insult-to-us--cork-councillors-angry-as-bypass-put-on-hold-again-899110.html


  • #24
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    I'd imagine the route to be used will be same as the one selected when the M20 was designed. The disused rail line is zoned as residential. It should be used as a green way, as it's too expensive to CPO for a road.


  • #25
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    cjpm wrote: »
    I'd imagine the route to be used will be same as the one selected when the M20 was designed. The disused rail line is zoned as residential. It should be used as a green way, as it's too expensive to CPO for a road.
    The preference by the council is to use the railway line. It makes the most sense and would remove the most traffic from the town as it's the most direct route and is useful.

    If it's zoned residential then it should be rezoned for the road. The outer route by the hospital is foolish


  • #26
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/news/council-seeking-confirmation-that-mallow-relief-road-will-not-be-part-of-m20-project-37836633.html

    No surprise here. 3.5 years later and we've had route options published and still no consultants appointed. Very casual attitude to this project for a badly needed one.


  • #27
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/senior-engineer-doubts-there-will-be-change-to-cork-limerick-route-918069.html

    Cork County Council are now preparing an economic assessment to push for this road, after 2 separate feasibility studies deemed it viable

    I mean this really is headbanging stuff.


  • #28
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Limerick74


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/senior-engineer-doubts-there-will-be-change-to-cork-limerick-route-918069.html

    Cork County Council are now preparing an economic assessment to push for this road, after 2 separate feasibility studies deemed it viable

    I mean this really is headbanging stuff.

    Economic Assessment = Business Case which is required for every project to progress to the next phase. Nothing unusual.


  • #29
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Economic Assessment = Business Case which is required for every project to progress to the next phase. Nothing unusual.
    The way it's phrased led me to believe it was an independent economic assessment to try and get this prioritised.

    The reason I have concern is this project has been ongoing for several years now and so far we've had 2 feasibility studies and route options published.

    I know this was only thrown into the 2015 Capital Plan to soften the blow of leaving out the M20 and maybe as a bone for Sean Sherlock to throw at voters but there has been nothing done since that couldn't have been done in 6-12 months.


  • #30
    highwaymaniac
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭highwaymaniac


    marno21 wrote: »
    The way it's phrased led me to believe it was an independent economic assessment to try and get this prioritised.

    This. Council reacting to pressure from councilors etc, need to be seen to be doing something.


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  • #31
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    According to documents published by DPER today, this has a start date of 2025 and completion date of 2027. This means its effectively been abandoned as a standalone project and will be completed as part of the M20 project like the old plan.


  • #32
    annfield1978
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 569 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    Tender Documents for this scheme have been issued for Phases 1 to 4 - N72/N73 Mallow Northern Relief Road


  • #33
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    annfield1978 wrote: »
    Tender Documents for this scheme have been issued for Phases 1 to 4 - N72/N73 Mallow Northern Relief Road
    FFS Phase 1 and 2 were done in 2017. Back to scratch again.

    Thanks for update though.


  • #34
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Limerick74


    Only an expanded Phase 0 has been completed including the Project Appraisal Plan. Phases 1 - 4 out for tender now.


  • #35
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Only an expanded Phase 0 has been completed including the Project Appraisal Plan. Phases 1 - 4 out for tender now.
    Ok thank you.

    The reason for my confusion was that feasibility study and route selection work have been ongoing since 2016 (as documented in this thread).

    The route options are in this link here: http://johnpauloshea.ie/mallow-traffic-congestion-end-northern-relief-road-moves-step-closer-fruition/

    I believe the preferred route by the council is the old railway line but we'll have to wait and see what the results of the various appraisals are.

    Given how little movement has happened on this scheme, I was surprised they bothered appointing consultants and didn't just merge it with the M20 scheme like what happened with the old M20 scheme where the Mallow northern link was part of the M20 scheme itself.

    EDIT: apologies, the route options above look more like a summary of previously examined routes.


  • #36
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Council aim to have route selected by end 2020 and to go to An Bord Pleanála in April 2022. Aim is to have construction underway within five years of now


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  • #37
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Barry Transportation appointed for Phases 1-4

    https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Relief-road-for-congested-Cork-town-moves-a-step-closer-477701fd-2831-4992-a6dd-522c66edd9a7-ds


  • #38
    Limerick74
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Limerick74


    marno21 wrote: »
    Jacobs appointed for Phases 1-4

    https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Relief-road-for-congested-Cork-town-moves-a-step-closer-477701fd-2831-4992-a6dd-522c66edd9a7-ds

    Slight correction: JB Barry Transportation, not Jacobs.


  • #39
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Slight correction: JB Barry Transportation, not Jacobs.

    Whoops.. the speed reading not up to scratch. Thanks for that


  • #40
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tender out for traffic data collection for the project

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/163260/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE


  • #41
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://corkrdo.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/NROWebsite_N72N73-Mallow-RR_Study-Area_260620.pdf

    Study area published. Keeps east of the N20 but extends quite a bit further east than Oliver's Cross. Would be nice if they took the opportunity to realign even a small stretch of the cat roads east of Mallow.


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  • #42
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Latest from Minister Hildegarde Naughton:
    The proposed N72-N73 Mallow relief road project is included among a number of major national road schemes that were identified in the national development plan for planning, design and construction. This scheme consists of a single or dual carriageway bypass of the town of Mallow. The scheme length would be of the order of 4.5 km to 7 km. The pre-appraisal plan for the Mallow relief road was approved by the economic unit of the Department. Following this, the procurement process for the appointment of technical advisors to progress the first four stages of TII’s project management guidelines was completed. Early planning, design and appraisal work for the project has commenced. Cork County Council and its advisors are currently assessing all route options available given the constraints.

    The relief road project would provide numerous benefits. It would bypass Mallow, reducing congestion and improving the environment of the town. It would cater for strategic traffic. It would improve access to and from Mallow. It would bring economic improvements for the Munster region. It would provide cycle and walking facilities for non-motorised users.

    The scheme is at an early stage of development and, therefore, it is not possible at this time to indicate a likely timeframe for construction of the project. The timeframe for delivery of any major or minor works or projects that require statutory approval, whether for environmental impact assessment or compulsory purchase orders or both, is between eight and 13 years. As this project is in the early stages of planning it is not yet possible to provide an accurate estimate of the total cost. The estimated cost cannot be finalised until the project reaches the business case stage of the process.
    As I have outlined, the project is at an early stage in this process. The programme for Government commits to bringing forward the planned view of the national development plan from 2022 and to use the review to set out an updated national development plan for the period to 2031. The review of the NDP will be aligned with the national planning framework and Project Ireland 2040. Work is under way within the Department to contribute to this planned review and the programme for Government also states that the process of reviewing the NDP and updating the national planning framework will not frustrate or delay any existing projects.

    TII remains committed to progressing the N72-N73 Mallow relief road and, as previously stated, this is subject to the public spending code guidelines and the necessary statutory approvals.


  • #43
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Route options published for public comments. Maybe someone else could upload the map.








    https://www.corkrdo.ie/news/n72-n73-mallow-relief-road/






    Public Consultation No. 1 – July 2020

    The purpose of this public consultation is to inform the public of the initial potential options which have been developed to address the problems identified and the constraints identified to date. Public consultation forms an important part of advancing the design process and allows the involvement of the public in developing the Preferred Option.
    A Brochure is available which gives an update on the project, its current status and the next steps. A Questionnaire and Online Feedback Form is also available to provide feedback and further information to the project team.
    Public Consultation No.1 Brochure
    Public Consultation No.1 Questionnaire – To be returned by the 18th of August 2020
    Public Consultation No.1 Online Feedback Form
    The project is currently at Phase 2 (Option Selection) of the TII Project Management Guidelines. One of the first stages of the options selection includes an examination of an area, within which all possible solutions could be identified. This area is referred to as the “Study Area”, which has now been established and is depicted in the drawing below.


  • #44
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This route options set is a bit odd. The ones south of Mallow need to be discounted immediately. They make absolutely no sense; through a mountain range, would require a Blackwater crossing and are miles from the N72 west of the town.

    I'd like to see the dark blue routing but continued along the N72 from where it meets the N72 to where the cyan route ends. Would upgrade a lot of the crap N72 also. The orange link road back down to west of Olivers Cross would help alleviate some traffic in the town but would require a mainline junction.

    IMO the red and turquoise terminus on the N20 are too far north of the town. Unnecessarily so.


  • #45
    quietsailor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Here's the route options - I've zoomed in as much as possible on the route area, if you want to see the original open the second attachment.

    520857.JPG


  • #46
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    On the South:
    It feels like only the blue/green route seems viable. The roads through Lavally would seem to be quite difficult to me because the relief there is pretty extreme, to say the least.

    Can anyone explain why they decided to not go the way of the Clyda river? Is it because the M20 uses that route?

    On the North:
    The dark blue, orange and pink routes all look very close to existing dwellings.
    Is this supposed to be a bypass or a distributor? I thought it was supposed to be a bypass.


  • #47
    cjpm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭cjpm


    I doubt very much that there will be a Blackwater crossing. Any the topography to the south would be a costlier build.


  • #48
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Fine plate of spaghetti there again, seems to be the norm thesedays.

    North of the town will be done, as south will be too expensive. The M20 is the only road that'll do anything around the south of Mallow.


  • #49
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Sorry, I thought there was both a North and South road being done.
    Well in that case, the routes on the South make no sense at all to me either. As I say the relief there is way too challenging.

    Of the North, I don't see how they'd get away with the dark blue, orange and pink routes.


  • #50
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    hans aus dtschl wrote: »
    Of the North, I don't see how they'd get away with the dark blue, orange and pink routes.

    These routes shadow the disused rail line, which was always the preferred option for the council. However, the same council allowed housing development back as far as the line which is an inconsistent position to have if you want to build a road along there

    I’d like to see the western terminus as south as possible (obviously remaining to the north of the town). Dragging traffic halfway to Newtwopothouse doesn’t really make sense as traffic has to enter the town anyway to head north.

    If you wanted to completely bypass the town you’d also need to continue the route west of the N20. This would be much shorter than the eastern section.

    Overall, lots of questions to be asked here


  • #51
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I'd have also said they should continue west of the N20/M20. I'm not 100% clear what this "relief road" is for. I'd have thought it was for East-West traffic to bypass the town. Not a "distributor".

    There's housing developments right up to the old railway now and I wouldn't have said there's a desire for these to have access onto both the existing road and the new road, or they'd potentially become rat-runs.

    Just with my "crayons" out:
    If it's a new "distributor road" I'd suggest the disused railway would make a good "green corridor", allow development on the other side of it, and then the distributor road beyond that.
    If it's a new "bypass road" then home owners in those estates won't be pleased. Again I suggest it would make sense to allow non-residential development on the other side of a green corridor and a bypass beyond that.


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