Irish Times article about DeChambeau

paddythere · 16-07-2020 5:54pm #1

Has anyone read this article in the Irish Times last week after DeChambeau's victory? Seems almost slanderous to me. Definitely out of order in my opinion.

Has anyone got any thoughts on it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/tipping-point-dechambeau-s-transformation-raises-questions-but-who-will-ask-them-1.4296716

badabing106 · 16-07-2020 6:05pm

He hit two drives over 400 yards today. 423 yards on the first

, 407 on 17th

paddythere · 16-07-2020 7:03pm

badabing106 wrote: »

He hit two drives over 400 yards today. 423 yards on the first , 407 on 17th

I don't really see that as suspicious though. Certainly doesn't warrant an article like that.

Golf is my Game · 16-07-2020 7:22pm

Thats a shocker. Real gutter journalism there. Not sure if that that writers normal style but didnt think the Irish Time would print that kind of rubbish. He stops just short of suggesting weight itself affect distance. I doubt Bryson is on anything by the way even if Rorys says there no problem getting away with it if you did wan to. He was on track to be a top 10 world player aand earn millions anyway and tournaments and quite possibly majors so it would be the dumbest thing to take even a small risk going on that kind of juice. Gose to gym, puts on muscle, long hitter hits it even further. Big deal. Its not like Jamaicas sprinters where their all clearly at it. Im sure the lawyers checked that before it was published but it still seems wrong that they can write stuff like that. The real new is what are the R&A doing to bring golf back to the game it was where distance makes sense and courses play like they were build.

16-07-2020 8:44pm

I can’t read the linked article but assume it is about steroids, Keopke seemed to hint at it last week.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.golfmagic.com/golf-news/did-brooks-koepka-just-suggest-bryson-dechambeau-steroids%3famp

tobsey · 17-07-2020 12:21am

That article is bang on the money. The No Laying Up podcast quoted it and agreed. There is no other sport in the world where putting on 3 stone in 6 months and suddenly being the best at that sport (albeit it over a short timeframe so far) where it wouldn’t be at least questioned. That’s all the article says, it didn’t state he has done anything wrong, but that it’s reasonable to ask the question. Golf is known for being lax on doping, and there aren’t many sports where someone could transform their body to that extent and see an improvement in performance where there wouldn’t be questions.

DH2K9 · 17-07-2020 1:29am

Malachy Clerkin discusses this himself on the Tackling Sport podcast with Peter Lawrie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiJEuCrbiSU&t=4s

He is simply asking why isn't anybody asking questions which I don't think is "slanderous" or "gutter journalism".

As tobsey mentioned above, his article was also discussed on the No Laying Up podcast and they agreed with the point that he should at the very least be asked whether he has been drug tested since his return. Not unreasonable.

As Rory McIlroy says himself - https://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/36774868

Mantis Toboggan · 17-07-2020 2:32am

tobsey wrote: »

That article is bang on the money. The No Laying Up podcast quoted it and agreed. There is no other sport in the world where putting on 3 stone in 6 months and suddenly being the best at that sport (albeit it over a short timeframe so far) where it wouldn’t be at least questioned. That’s all the article says, it didn’t state he has done anything wrong, but that it’s reasonable to ask the question. Golf is known for being lax on doping, and there aren’t many sports where someone could transform their body to that extent and see an improvement in performance where there wouldn’t be questions.

He hasn't put on 3 stone in 6 months, where did you read that?

17-07-2020 3:00am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

He hasn't put on 3 stone in 6 months, where did you read that?

You seem to be right, it’s closer to eight months and just under 3 stone. Some articles say he gained 20 pounds during the 3 month golf hiatus alone, and 40 since September when the PGA tour starts and the golfers give their stats, most if not all put his current weight at around 240lbs. Even if the articles/poster aren’t precise about the timescale/weight, I think most people get the gist of the debate, huge weight gain - short time frame.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/sports/golf/bryson-dechambeau-weight.amp.html

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/heavy.com/sports/2020/06/bryson-dechambeau-workout-diet-weight-gain-how/amp/

While you don’t have to be an athlete to pile on 3 stone of extra weight during that time frame, adding 3 stone of muscle/maintaining an athletic physic while working out must be incredibly difficult.

Tell me how · 17-07-2020 4:27am

paddythere wrote: »

Has anyone read this article in the Irish Times last week after DeChambeau's victory? Seems almost slanderous to me. Definitely out of order in my opinion.

Has anyone got any thoughts on it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/tipping-point-dechambeau-s-transformation-raises-questions-but-who-will-ask-them-1.4296716

Author is fully aware of what is appropriate and not in such an article.

It’s at this point where the libel laws insist that it is made clear that there is no suggestion that DeChambeau has done anything untoward in gaining all this bulk. His social channels have been all over his transformation from the start, posting footage of his daily gym sessions and so on. Every second reference to him on TV broadcasts seems to mention protein shakes and a revolutionary gym routine and all that jazz. Until we hear otherwise, that must all be taken in good faith.

SeeMoreBut · 17-07-2020 7:56am

If he has or hasn't taken a supplement in general USA don't give a care about drugs unless it hurts them. Just look at the punishment for taking stuff in baseball etc. Where if a Chinese got taken something they will scream for long bans. They still pick Gatlin to run when they could ban him

bren2001 · 17-07-2020 8:05am

I don't see how any of the article is out of order. Bryson has put on a crazy amount of muscle in a short amount of time. Questions should be asked of Bryson and what testing has been done. He may well be innocent.

17-07-2020 8:11am

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

If he has or hasn't taken a supplement in general USA don't give a care about drugs unless it hurts them. Just look at the punishment for taking stuff in baseball etc. Where if a Chinese got taken something they will scream for long bans. They still pick Gatlin to run when they could ban him

That’s the thing, I think it would hurt the golf brand if he or anyone else tested positive considering the importance of driving distance. VJ had some trouble a few years ago and there was some commentary about DJs absence.

DuckSlice · 17-07-2020 8:27am

Harrington was on the Golf weekly podcast last week or the week before. He said Bryson always had the speed just he never used it. Mentioned him hitting drives with 195mph ball speed at the open last year. Was an interesting listen.

He has not put on 3 or 4 stone of muscle either. He is in no way lean.

17-07-2020 8:44am

etxp wrote: »

Harrington was on the Golf weekly podcast last week or the week before. He said Bryson always had the speed just he never used it. Mentioned him hitting drives with 195mph ball speed at the open last year. Was an interesting listen.

He has not put on 3 or 4 stone of muscle either. He is in no way lean.

The most commonly quoted figure is 20lbs of muscle, that’s still a hell of a lot. He’s not exactly flabby either.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.menshealth.com/fitness/amp32890755/bryson-dechambeau-body-transformation-muscle-strength/

Personally, Keopke’s comment is the most compelling. I always think the most insightful opinion comes from within a sport, team mates and peers, they know what it takes to operate at that level.

Rippeditup · 17-07-2020 9:40am

Dav010 wrote: »

The most commonly quoted figure is 20lbs of muscle, that’s still a hell of a lot. He’s not exactly flabby either.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.menshealth.com/fitness/amp32890755/bryson-dechambeau-body-transformation-muscle-strength/

Personally, Keopke’s comment is the most compelling. I always think the most insightful opinion comes from within a sport, team mates and peers, they know what it takes to operate at that level.

Agreed, at an elite level the guys know what it takes to move the dial... The weight and muscle is do-able (unlike some in here have said) I have seen it with training but you will lose mobility and coordination doing it so fast as he would have had to eliminate long cardio (very hard walking around a golf course) and be in the gym huge amounts which in turn would take away from practice time and you cant just hit balls after heavy gym sessions as its likely to cause injury..

The thing is the speed is one thing, there is loads of guys who will build up speed, its the accuracy and how it has not really affected other parts of his game that seems strange.. Golf is demanding on back/hips/legs with so much twisting and turning ontop of heavy heavy lifting its a recipie for injury at this pace ...

A Shaved Duck? · 17-07-2020 9:51am

bren2001 wrote: »

I don't see how any of the article is out of order. Bryson has put on a crazy amount of muscle in a short amount of time. Questions should be asked of Bryson and what testing has been done. He may well be innocent.

I think just the small bit of the article below is out of line, fine the Journo has a bee in his bonnet butthe use of language to infer he on is on the juice but not actually say it is pretty cowardly.

"DeChambeau is an interesting enough in other ways, especially given his recent, eh transformation. He has always come across as a bit of a tosser. It’s just that now, he’s a massive one."

bren2001 · 17-07-2020 9:55am

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

I think just the small bit of the article below is out of line, fine the Journo has a bee in his bonnet butthe use of language to infer he on is on the juice but not actually say it is pretty cowardly.

"DeChambeau is an interesting enough in other ways, especially given his recent, eh transformation. He has always come across as a bit of a tosser. It’s just that now, he’s a massive one."

His point isn't that Bryson is on steroids, it's that questions have not been asked. He cannot state Bryson is on steroids otherwise he'd be sued. We have pretty strict libel laws.

The sentence you've quoted is out of line all right. I agree with him but still...

A Shaved Duck? · 17-07-2020 9:59am

bren2001 wrote: »

His point isn't that Bryson is on steroids, it's that questions have not been asked. He cannot state Bryson is on steroids otherwise he'd be sued. We have pretty strict libel laws.

The sentence you've quoted is out of line all right. I agree with him but still...

Yeah to be fair its clear something could be going on, article just seems petty to me.

GreeBo · 17-07-2020 12:06pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Author is fully aware of what is appropriate and not in such an article.

Yeah, but when you have to put something like that in your article its obvious what the point of your article is...

Ceepo · 17-07-2020 2:19pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

Thats a shocker. Real gutter journalism there. Not sure if that that writers normal style but didnt think the Irish Time would print that kind of rubbish. He stops just short of suggesting weight itself affect distance. I doubt Bryson is on anything by the way even if Rorys says there no problem getting away with it if you did wan to. He was on track to be a top 10 world player aand earn millions anyway and tournaments and quite possibly majors so it would be the dumbest thing to take even a small risk going on that kind of juice. Gose to gym, puts on muscle, long hitter hits it even further. Big deal. Its not like Jamaicas sprinters where their all clearly at it. Im sure the lawyers checked that before it was published but it still seems wrong that they can write stuff like that. The real new is what are the R&A doing to bring golf back to the game it was where distance makes sense and courses play like they were build.

Saying they someone was top 10 and earning millions, is absolutely no reason to believe that they're not tempted to use Peds.
There have been many world top 10 performers that have been Busted for Peds.
The risk to "getting caught" is minuscule when you consider that there was only 5 out of competition drug test in 2019 and none in competition test.
Remember the whole debacle that was the Zika virus and top players not wanting to play. I wonder would it have anything to do with heightened chance of getting blood tested.
Interesting enough that a lot of the same players are playing in a hot bed of covid 19 ( a virus that could potentially kill them) at the moment.
Interestingly enough you mention the Jamaica sprinters "saying what about them sure they're all at it" Do I belive that a small island with the same population as ourselves could be that genetically gifted, no absolutely not, and yes they have a ****e testing system, but also have had sprinters test positive. Golf has also a ****e testing system. And yet you infer that there no problem in golf. Maybe if they actually tested more then they might actually catch more.
Of course this doesn't mean golf has a ped issue, but let's not be fooled into believeing that the potential to use Peds is not there. Equally to belive that the PGA want to protect their image.

It also has to be remembered that the money there sprinters would have won is peanuts in comparison to what golfers can win.
There will always be temptation to cheat. Whether that's through Peds, or moving a bit of sand with your club in the bunker, to the many guys out there playing that want to "mind" their handicap

DuckSlice · 17-07-2020 2:51pm

Rippeditup wrote: »

Agreed, at an elite level the guys know what it takes to move the dial... The weight and muscle is do-able (unlike some in here have said) I have seen it with training but you will lose mobility and coordination doing it so fast as he would have had to eliminate long cardio (very hard walking around a golf course) and be in the gym huge amounts which in turn would take away from practice time and you cant just hit balls after heavy gym sessions as its likely to cause injury..

The thing is the speed is one thing, there is loads of guys who will build up speed, its the accuracy and how it has not really affected other parts of his game that seems strange.. Golf is demanding on back/hips/legs with so much twisting and turning ontop of heavy heavy lifting its a recipie for injury at this pace ...

The weight is for sure do-able, but that weight is not all muscle. I would say it is at least 40% fat. I've listened to a good podcast on this from Mike Carroll (Fit for Golf) I would tend to agree with his logic. But then again I could be wrong.

Golf is my Game · 17-07-2020 3:00pm

For me theres nothing to answer. He has put on muscle no doubt. But you can just see that he has put on fat too. You see young footballer do it too early in their careers when they make County as they try to bulk up to mix with the stronger lads. And they do it through the winter. Koepka actually looks more muscly but he came to prominence like this rather than us having seen much of him without those big biceps and shoulders but nobody asks it about him. It's just we seen Dechambeau change. It's a do about nothing and still say very bad journalism to be putting the boot on like that even if it's cleverly written and checked by lawyers to be able to squirm out of actually causing him.

bren2001 · 17-07-2020 3:44pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

For me theres nothing to answer. He has put on muscle no doubt. But you can just see that he has put on fat too. You see young footballer do it too early in their careers when they make County as they try to bulk up to mix with the stronger lads. And they do it through the winter. Koepka actually looks more muscly but he came to prominence like this rather than us having seen much of him without those big biceps and shoulders but nobody asks it about him. It's just we seen Dechambeau change. It's a do about nothing and still say very bad journalism to be putting the boot on like that even if it's cleverly written and checked by lawyers to be able to squirm out of actually causing him.

PEDs dont stop people from increasing their fat content. His diet wasn't particularly clean for the weight gain so you'd expect a decent amount of fat to be put on alongside the muscle. It is no way indicative of whether he did or did not use steroids.

While I'm suspicious of Bryson, I think the PGA have more questions to answer than Bryson i.e. how many times has he, or other golfers e.g. Brookes, Rory, Woods, been tested. That's what I took to be the point from Malachy Clerkins article.

Mantis Toboggan · 17-07-2020 4:03pm

bren2001 wrote: »

PEDs dont stop people from increasing their fat content. His diet wasn't particularly clean for the weight gain so you'd expect a decent amount of fat to be put on alongside the muscle. It is no way indicative of whether he did or did not use steroids.

While I'm suspicious of Bryson, I think the PGA have more questions to answer than Bryson i.e. how many times has he, or other golfers e.g. Brookes, Rory, Woods, been tested. That's what I took to be the point from Malachy Clerkins article.

But what sporting organisations will document each drug test? Do the GAA or the Premier league document who has been tested and how many times?

bren2001 · 17-07-2020 4:24pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

But what sporting organisations will document each drug test? Do the GAA or the Premier league document who has been tested and how many times?

I'd be very surprised if the GAA, PL, or other organisations don't have records of who has been tested and when they have been tested. The GAA and other international organisation also release the figures in the annual WADA report. The PL records are available under the Freedom of Information Act.

The PGA Tour doesn't disclose testing numbers. Up until recently, they didn't disclose if a test had been failed e.g. DJ's "voluntary" absence in 2014. I think it's fair to ask questions in relation to their testing policy. They are in no way transparent.

Malachy was on the Tackling Sport podcast, he had a few numbers.

Ceepo · 17-07-2020 6:37pm

bren2001 wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if the GAA, PL, or other organisations don't have records of who has been tested and when they have been tested. The GAA and other international organisation also release the figures in the annual WADA report. The PL records are available under the Freedom of Information Act.

The PGA Tour doesn't disclose testing numbers. Up until recently, they didn't disclose if a test had been failed e.g. DJ's "voluntary" absence in 2014. I think it's fair to ask questions in relation to their testing policy. They are in no way transparent.

Malachy was on the Tackling Sport podcast, he had a few numbers.

Didn't DJ have 3 "Injury's" lasting 3 month, 6 months and 6 months?

According to USADA they carried out 5 test in 2019 and these were out of competition test. And they don't disclose identity of who they test.
At a guess if say there's upward of 120 players week in week out playing the pga tour at the highest level. To say that there wasn't even ONE in competition test is a joke.
We in ireland are lucky to have a number of golfer in the top tier of golf. In 2017 there was only one test carried out and that was in Lpga..

Anyone who thinks golfers are above taking Peds have their head firmly in the sand

bren2001 · 17-07-2020 6:47pm

Ceepo wrote: »

Didn't DJ have 3 "Injury's" lasting 3 month, 6 months and 6 months?

According to USADA they carried out 5 test in 2019 and these were out of competition test. And they don't disclose identity of who they test.
At a guess if say there's upward of 120 players week in week out playing the pga tour at the highest level. To say that there wasn't even ONE in competition test is a joke.
We in ireland are lucky to have a number of golfer in the top tier of golf. In 2017 there was only one test carried out and that was in Lpga..

Anyone who thinks golfers are above taking Peds have their head firmly in the sand

Yeah, that's the figure Malachy had. I didn't know where he got it from so didn't want to quote it.

Just to contrast this, the GAA had 149 tests in 2018. An amateur organisation should not be out testing the PGA tour. I think it's fair to ask questions of them.

Ceepo · 17-07-2020 9:00pm

bren2001 wrote: »

Yeah, that's the figure Malachy had. I didn't know where he got it from so didn't want to quote it.

Just to contrast this, the GAA had 149 tests in 2018. An amateur organisation should not be out testing the PGA tour. I think it's fair to ask questions of them.

I take your point re the Gaa, however the fact that it's an amateur organisation should have very little bearing on the amount of tests.
As the Gaa get government funding and players get tax credits its only right and proper that they should be tested. Even if they are ONLY tested in competition.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that golf has a ped problem, but agree 100% with you that if something doesn't look right, certainly question should be asked.

17-07-2020 9:23pm

Ceepo wrote: »

I take your point re the Gaa, however the fact that it's an amateur organisation should have very little bearing on the amount of tests.
As the Gaa get government funding and players get tax credits its only right and proper that they should be tested. Even if they are ONLY tested in competition.

I'm not for a minute suggesting that golf has a ped problem, but agree 100% with you that if something doesn't look right, certainly question should be asked.

The mere whiff of PED’s would be enormously damaging to the PGA/R&A brand, the fact that one of the top players has hinted at it will set off alarm bells I would think. The distance the players are hitting the ball now is causing a big problem for the tours, Nicklaus spoke about it again last night, steroid use would really frighten them as more players may see the benefits of bulking up to hit the ball monstrous lengths. I suppose it was only a matter of time. When you think back on many of the more sensational doping cases, Michelle De Bruin being a good example, the sudden improvements in performance were followed by less than subtle hints by fellow competitors that something wasn’t right, the change in performance and body transformation was too sudden.

Ceepo · 17-07-2020 10:06pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The mere whiff of PED’s would be enormously damaging to the PGA/R&A brand, the fact that one of the top players has hinted at it will set off alarm bells I would think. The distance the players are hitting the ball now is causing a big problem for the tours, Nicklaus spoke about it again last night, steroid use would really frighten them as more players may see the benefits of bulking up to hit the ball monstrous lengths. I suppose it was only a matter of time. When you think back on many of the more sensational doping cases, Michelle De Bruin being a good example, the sudden improvements in performance were followed by less than subtle hints by fellow competitors that something wasn’t right, the change in performance and body transformation was too sudden.

But I wonder if the whiff you actually damage that brand. I don't think tennis suffered to much long term when Kournikova was Busted.
There is no doubt that as we speak young up and coming golfers are in the gym trying to bulk up after seeing the results that Bryson has had even if he doesn't win every tournament.
You also have to remember that even when people do take Peds only a very few of them get caught even when they are tested. Remember Michelle was never caught doping, as was the most famous of the all Lance.
It's well known that only the stupid or the ones that can't afford the "good" doctors get caught.
For all the flaws with testing it does catch a few but you have to test in the first place.
American sport is rife with Peds, just look at Baseball, football, ice hockey, athletics, cycling swimming, ufc, boxing, never mind the bodybuilders etc that frequent the gyms . Are we nieve enough to believe with all the money and prestige that comes with golf that there isn't a temptation.....

17-07-2020 10:36pm

Ceepo wrote: »

But I wonder if the whiff you actually damage that brand. I don't think tennis suffered to much long term when Kournikova was Busted.
There is no doubt that as we speak young up and coming golfers are in the gym trying to bulk up after seeing the results that Bryson has had even if he doesn't win every tournament.
You also have to remember that even when people do take Peds only a very few of them get caught even when they are tested. Remember Michelle was never caught doping, as was the most famous of the all Lance.
It's well known that only the stupid or the ones that can't afford the "good" doctors get caught.
For all the flaws with testing it does catch a few but you have to test in the first place.
American sport is rife with Peds, just look at Baseball, football, ice hockey, athletics, cycling swimming, ufc, boxing, never mind the bodybuilders etc that frequent the gyms . Are we nieve enough to believe with all the money and prestige that comes with golf that there isn't a temptation.....

I agree with you, the emphasis in golf now is about power off the tee and reaching par 5s in two. Also, with the additional strength, finding the fairway off the tee isn’t as important, these guys can still reach the green in regulation from the rough if they have a sight of it.

I think the reputation of tennis has suffered as a result of Kournikova being busted, PEDs are not used just to improve performance, they are used to recover more quickly from injury and prolong careers.

The tests always come after the dope, I think I’m right in saying that some athletes were found to have doped retrospectively when their samples were tested later when new tests were developed. Our own Stephen Roche was caught up in it long after his career had ended.

In relation to baseball/NFL, these are primarily domestic US sports, and as we know, American audiences are very forgiving of athletes who are winners, you can be a doper, wife beater, felon etc, and they will forgive you, just about the only thing a US athlete can’t do nowadays is be racist.

Golf is facing its biggest ever challenge due to distance the players now hit it. They can’t make 10k yrd courses because they don’t have the room and club members can’t play them. Nicklaus said last night he is going to do one more redesign of Muirfield to make it fairer for the members, that will make it easier for the pros, but that is what he has to do in his opinion for the club to survive. If the pros continue to increase length unchecked, he worries for the game and feels that equipment must be altered, which in turn creates problems for amateur golfers.

The prospect of current golfers thinking they have to increase muscle substantially so they can compete must be terrifying, a golfer who is short off the tee is now at a huge disadvantage if they take 3 to hit the par 5s or have a 7 iron in their hands for a second shot instead of a wedge.

downthemiddle · 18-07-2020 12:18pm

Nothing to see with Bryson!!!
https://irishgolfer.ie/latest-golf-news/2020/07/18/dechambeau-caught-up-in-rules-controversy-after-memorial-missed-cut/

18-07-2020 12:22pm

downthemiddle wrote: »

Nothing to see with Bryson!!!
https://irishgolfer.ie/latest-golf-news/2020/07/18/dechambeau-caught-up-in-rules-controversy-after-memorial-missed-cut/

Just watched video of the incident, he made a bit of a dick of himself. Thought the rules official did well to stay calm with the way he was being spoken to. It least he didn’t attack the camera man this week.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ukgolfguy?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1284243314380808192|twgr^&ref_url=https://d-41924075562709425146.ampproject.net/2007040248002/frame.html

RikkFlair · 18-07-2020 2:08pm

He is, the yanks say...."a piece of work"

redhill · 18-07-2020 2:48pm

Ceepo wrote: »

But I wonder if the whiff you actually damage that brand. I don't think tennis suffered to much long term when Kournikova was Busted.
There is no doubt that as we speak young up and coming golfers are in the gym trying to bulk up after seeing the results that Bryson has had even if he doesn't win every tournament.
You also have to remember that even when people do take Peds only a very few of them get caught even when they are tested. Remember Michelle was never caught doping, as was the most famous of the all Lance.
It's well known that only the stupid or the ones that can't afford the "good" doctors get caught.
For all the flaws with testing it does catch a few but you have to test in the first place.
American sport is rife with Peds, just look at Baseball, football, ice hockey, athletics, cycling swimming, ufc, boxing, never mind the bodybuilders etc that frequent the gyms . Are we nieve enough to believe with all the money and prestige that comes with golf that there isn't a temptation.....

Lance was actually caught doping, French authorities let him off....

Rikand · 18-07-2020 6:34pm

Harrington was on the radio last week and they asked him about it (newstalk I think) and he said, straight up, the numbers Bryson is pushing aren't that incredible. Ball speed and swing speed aren't that incredible compared to what can be done.

He then compared him to someone like Kyle Berkshire, the long drive world champion. He hits ball speeds of 240, so what Bryson is doing isn't really all that incredible. It's like looking at usain bolt and then someone saying, well theres this other sprinter over here and hes gone from 12 seconds last year to 11 seconds this year for the 100m, something needs to be done about that! Whoever suggested that would be laughed at.

Bryson was already swinging at 180ish last year. With the weight gain he can get that up to 190. And the weight gain can definitely be achieved if you have the time and motivation for it. The rest just isn't really that incredible in Harrington's opinion

tritriagain · 18-07-2020 7:07pm

Great time for Harrington but is he being diplomatic due to Ryder cup captaincy.? I find Bryson's increase hard to take. I know an international rugby player quite well and he's a big lad now but took him a long time to increase his size . Maybe Bryson is legit but surely he should be tested regularly along with everyone else. Pga tour is pure as the driven snow according to the pga tour.

Golf is my Game · 18-07-2020 7:17pm

tritriagain wrote: »

Great time for Harrington but is he being diplomatic due to Ryder cup captaincy.? I find Bryson's increase hard to take. I know an international rugby player quite well and he's a big lad now but took him a long time to increase his size . Maybe Bryson is legit but surely he should be tested regularly along with everyone else. Pga tour is pure as the driven snow according to the pga tour.

To be fair I dont thing a rugby lad could afford to put on as much fat and Bryson and that how he looks so heavy. Sure hes put on muscle too but golfers can carry that fat too but rugby would let them do that. So Id say that how he put on so much so fast. And maybe not in the most healthy way either where other sports are used to building lads up in a creful way so thay can keep playing and dont gut injuries and stuff.

18-07-2020 7:17pm

Rikand wrote: »

He then compared him to someone like Kyle Berkshire, the long drive world champion. He hits ball speeds of 240, so what Bryson is doing isn't really all that incredible. It's like looking at usain bolt and then someone saying, well theres this other sprinter over here and hes gone from 12 seconds last year to 11 seconds this year for the 100m, something needs to be done about that! Whoever suggested that would be laughed at.

People didn’t laugh when Ben Johnson went through a body transformation and started running faster than everyone else, they didn’t laugh when Lance Armstrong won the TdF soon after returning to the sport after cancer treatment, they didn’t laugh when Barry Bonds started piling on the pounds and bashing the ball out of the park, there was no giggling when MdeB started winning Olympic medals, what there was in all cases was hints from other athletes that something just wasn’t right.

Golf is my Game · 18-07-2020 7:52pm

Dav010 wrote: »

People didn’t laugh when Ben Johnson went through a body transformation and started running faster than everyone else, they didn’t laugh when Lance Armstrong won the TdF soon after returning to the sport after cancer treatment, they didn’t laugh when Barry Bonds started piling on the pounds and bashing the ball out of the park, there was no giggling when MdeB started winning Olympic medals, what there was in all cases was hints from other athletes that something just wasn’t right.

Oh yes there was. I would have being saying to anyone who would listen at the time that all them were on the steroids. Well Bonds was far away but still thought it.

NIMAN · 18-07-2020 7:57pm

Dav010 wrote: »

People didn’t laugh when Ben Johnson went through a body transformation and started running faster than everyone else, they didn’t laugh when Lance Armstrong won the TdF soon after returning to the sport after cancer treatment, they didn’t laugh when Barry Bonds started piling on the pounds and bashing the ball out of the park, there was no giggling when MdeB started winning Olympic medals, what there was in all cases was hints from other athletes that something just wasn’t right.

You left out Bolt.

Golf is my Game · 18-07-2020 8:22pm

NIMAN wrote: »

You left out Bolt.

All them Jamaicans. No one believes theyve just got better genetics than the Americans or whoever or they got better coaches. No one in their serious mind thinks bolt is clean. But theres nothing to suggest Dechambeau is offside at the moment.
But that a good point nonetheless Id say Harrington does have to watch his words and stuff with the Ryder Cup so cant be the start of any controversy at all or having a cloud over it like.

Kingswood Rover · 18-07-2020 8:34pm

This malarky around Bryson muscling up, i am not so sure he has bulked up yes and he looks like a big late 90's rugby player. What will he be able to do when he gets his body fat down, is cut and lean with the same body weight. I Like him because he is different and taking an approach in the sport that is not known for embracing change. Yes he makes mistakes and come across as brash and self centered but its that type of sport at the the level he is operating at.

The Tetrarch · 19-07-2020 12:46pm

US Masters 2019: Bryson DeChambeau driving distance
R1 (310.5); R2 (282.5); R3 (307.5); R4 (296.5) = Average 299.25

Ranked 24th in average driving distance of the 65 players who made the cut in the 2019 US Masters.

PGA Tour driving distance
2020 1st
2019 34th

Waesfjord · 19-07-2020 12:53pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

US Masters 2019: Bryson DeChambeau driving distance
R1 (310.5); R2 (282.5); R3 (307.5); R4 (296.5) = Average 299.25

Ranked 24th in average driving distance of the 65 players who made the cut in the 2019 US Masters.

PGA Tour driving distance
2020 1st
2019 34th

It would be be interesting to see similar stats for driver accuracy (fairways hit) to see how much that has deteriorated from 2019 to 2020 with the increase in distance. Is that stat available?

TheCitizen · 19-07-2020 1:01pm

If the authorities are slack on testing for steroids etc., there’s nothing surer than some will cheat

Ceepo · 19-07-2020 1:06pm

TheCitizen wrote: »

If the authorities are slack on testing for steroids etc., there’s nothing surer than some will cheat

This 100%..

But with a squeeky clean image to protect and a fan base with their head in the sand..

There's nothing to see here... So move on back to athletics and cycling where all the drug cheats hang out....

The Tetrarch · 19-07-2020 1:13pm

Waesfjord wrote: »

It would be be interesting to see similar stats for driver accuracy (fairways hit) to see how much that has deteriorated from 2019 to 2020 with the increase in distance. Is that stat available?

Driving accuracy percentage
2020 110th
2019 66th

Off the tee ball speed
2020 no stats
2019 42nd

Driving 320+ yards
2020 1st
2019 51st

Irish Times article about DeChambeau

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