Eviction Ban extended

Pkiernan · 15-07-2020 9:42am

Crimsonred wrote: »

The landlords in this area will try and brazen it out until the end of August and use the current restrictions as cover to leave troublesome tenants in situ.

Throwing them out would mean a loss of revenue for the poor landlords and we can't have that now, can we?

Is that your answer to what the LL can do?

Or are you bereft of ideas? I don't see any legal recourse for the LL in this situation.

beauf · 15-07-2020 10:02am

It's very likely they'll wreck the house, are not paying rent and the LL will have to take costly legal proceedings to get them out. He'll be lucky to get the house back in business before September.

But that's the business. You make as much money as you can when you can, because the legislation leaves a LL exposed to high losses.

Overcrowding is an issue for local authority. We have no proper vetting system so it's a complete lottery.

But hey this is how people want this business to be run. People lobbied for all the legislation changes over the past couple of decades. This is the result.

Crimsonred · 15-07-2020 10:10am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Is that your answer to what the LL can do?

Or are you bereft of ideas? I don't see any legal recourse for the LL in this situation.

Apart from anything else, we don't know the exact nature of the agreement in place between the LL currently before the courts and his tenants. He owns several properties in the area around UCC,.

I think it would be wrong to assume that all these tenancies are registered with the RTB.

What he can do does depend on those factors.

I'm as curious as anyone else to see the outcome here.

The_Conductor · 15-07-2020 10:10am

Crimsonred wrote: »

The landlords in this area will try and brazen it out until the end of August and use the current restrictions as cover to leave troublesome tenants in situ.

Throwing them out would mean a loss of revenue for the poor landlords and we can't have that now, can we?

Seriously?
Its in a landlords interest to maintain as harmonious a relationship with neighbours as possible.
In the case being discussed in this thread (the students next door to UCC)- the landlord has no options at all at his disposal.
What is going to do? Appeal to the students better nature to show due respect towards the elderly and neighbours?
They obviously don't give a damn, and know that there is absolutely nothing that the landlord can do.

The only thing the landlord can do in this instance- is purely a box ticking exercise.

Yes, Judge- I have explained in detail the antisocial manner in which the tenants are being towards neighbours- and sent a registered letter to the property (copy of tracking supplied)- and here is a copy of the letter.

I have also (belatedly) commenced a case with the RTB (which most probably if its expedited take 2 months to be heard).

I have spoken to the local Community Gardai (copy of correspondence attached) requesting they visit the property and keep an eye on the antics of the tenants...........

Its a box ticking exercise on the part of the landlord- and the judge knows it- yet, its what he has asked the landlord to do.

I'd dispute the assertion that the court are behind the residents on this one- if they were, they'd actually guide the landlord in actions he can take to remedy the case- instead of cutting him loose to do as he will.

The current restrictions on evictions- are not working- and cases like this are simply highlighting the stupidity of using a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with the crisis in housing in this country.

brisan · 15-07-2020 10:21am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Seriously?
Its in a landlords interest to maintain as harmonious a relationship with neighbours as possible.
In the case being discussed in this thread (the students next door to UCC)- the landlord has no options at all at his disposal.
What is going to do? Appeal to the students better nature to show due respect towards the elderly and neighbours?
They obviously don't give a damn, and know that there is absolutely nothing that the landlord can do.

The only thing the landlord can do in this instance- is purely a box ticking exercise.

Yes, Judge- I have explained in detail the antisocial manner in which the tenants are being towards neighbours- and sent a registered letter to the property (copy of tracking supplied)- and here is a copy of the letter.

I have also (belatedly) commenced a case with the RTB (which most probably if its expedited take 2 months to be heard).

I have spoken to the local Community Gardai (copy of correspondence attached) requesting they visit the property and keep an eye on the antics of the tenants...........

Its a box ticking exercise on the part of the landlord- and the judge knows it- yet, its what he has asked the landlord to do.

I'd dispute the assertion that the court are behind the residents on this one- if they were, they'd actually guide the landlord in actions he can take to remedy the case- instead of cutting him loose to do as he will.

The current restrictions on evictions- are not working- and cases like this are simply highlighting the stupidity of using a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with the crisis in housing in this country.

Genuine question
Under the current laws what else can the landlord do ?
I agree the tenants should be evicted but how can they legally be.
What guideline can the court offer the landlord

beauf · 15-07-2020 10:31am

Crimsonred wrote: »

Apart from anything else, we don't know the exact nature of the agreement in place between the LL currently before the courts and his tenants. He owns several properties in the area around UCC,.

I think it would be wrong to assume that all these tenancies are registered with the RTB.

What he can do does depend on those factors.

I'm as curious as anyone else to see the outcome here.

No it doesn't depend on those factors. It always has to be done the same way to be legal. The process is defined, you have to follow it.

Graham · 15-07-2020 11:10am

Crimsonred wrote: »

I think it would be wrong to assume that all these tenancies are registered with the RTB.

It would be wrong to assume RTB registration makes a difference.

The_Conductor · 15-07-2020 11:18am

brisan wrote: »

Genuine question
Under the current laws what else can the landlord do ?
I agree the tenants should be evicted but how can they legally be.
What guideline can the court offer the landlord

Absolutely nothing.
Thats why I'm saying that cutting the landlord loose and giving him a week to 'address the issues which have been proven to the court' is a complete and utter waste of time.

The landlord is a proxy for the ire of the neighbours/residents of the area- the culprits are the obnoxious students who are completely and utterly abusing the perceived lack of ability the landlord has to do anything- to party like its 1999.

I was being a little tongue in cheek with my list of proposed actions the landlord can/could do- the list (it should be obvious) is completely and utterly ineffectual.

The landlord needs to get the students out- and until he does- the students are running rings around him, the RTB, the court system, the judge- but most of all- the neighbours and residents.

The students are abusing the perceived impotence of the system to their advantage- safe in the knowledge they can party 24-7 and no-one has any power to stop them.

Claw Hammer · 15-07-2020 11:28am

The_Conductor wrote: »

The risk of having a tenant overhold for up to two years, while not paying rent, while they play the system- and eventually leave, and you have no manner or means of getting a penny out of them?

There is no 2 year limit on how long a tenant can overhold. It can go on for much longer if the tenant is well enough informed.

The_Conductor · 15-07-2020 11:34am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is no 2 year limit on how long a tenant can overhold. It can go on for much longer if the tenant is well enough informed.

I know

It depends on how motivated they are- and the longer and further a case proceeds, the more and more likely that it'll feature on the internet and any future prospective landlord might be able to do a little research- I'd hazard a guess that the only reason that some people eventually drop out at around the 2 year mark, is so as not to murky their records any further.

The 2 year mark- seems to be quite common though.

Claw Hammer · 15-07-2020 11:38am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I know
It depends on how motivated they are- and the longer and further a case proceeds, the more and more likely that it'll feature on the internet and any future prospective landlord might be able to do a little research- I'd hazard a guess that the only reason that some people eventually drop out at around the 2 year mark, is so as not to murky their records any further.

The 2 year mark- seems to be quite common though.

Featuring on the internet doesn't worry the hard neck merchants. If its ends after 2 years it is more that they made a mess of stringing out the process.

The_Conductor · 15-07-2020 12:03pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Featuring on the internet doesn't worry the hard neck merchants. If its ends after 2 years it is more that they made a mess of stringing out the process.

I really wish the RTB would publicise the most atrocious tenants and landlords- I know you can hunt for determinations etc- but they shouldn't hide them in the manner in which they do.

Claw Hammer · 15-07-2020 12:08pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I really wish the RTB would publicise the most atrocious tenants and landlords- I know you can hunt for determinations etc- but they shouldn't hide them in the manner in which they do.

They never put in the subsequent court orders either so you can't see how long things went on after it left the RTB.

JimmyVik · 15-07-2020 12:33pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I really wish the RTB would publicise the most atrocious tenants and landlords- I know you can hunt for determinations etc- but they shouldn't hide them in the manner in which they do.

I know people who store determinations on their google drive. Every one of them, in case they are looking up potential tenants in future but the RTB have removed them. They actually share the google drive among each other.
Seems like a lot of work to me all the same.

brisan · 15-07-2020 12:54pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know people who store determinations on their google drive. Every one of them, in case they are looking up potential tenants in future but the RTB have removed them. They actually share the google drive among each other.
Seems like a lot of work to me all the same.

If you have as a landlord been bitten for 2-8k on a property by a bad tenant ,it may be worth your while .
I would say a lot of LL will get bitten when the payment breaks on rents are discontinued
I know of one landlord who has 6 properties at roughly 1750 each.
2 of those have taken 3 month breaks and paid no rent .
How will they pay the arrears ,how long will it take ,will they even bother or will they just move out or return home

longgonesilver · 15-07-2020 3:13pm

Only option i can see for the cork landlord is to pay/bribe his tenants to leave, give them their deposits back maybe suggest they go to the beach on holidays. It will cost thousands but solve the problem.

Could he get court orders against them forcing them to behave and not allow visitors into the house?

na1 · 15-07-2020 3:28pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Worth bearing in mind that filming anyone without their consent is technically illegal under GDPR, particularly if footage its on a app like whatsapp or facebook.

AFAIK the public filming (including children) is allowed. It is illegal to use someone's distinctive images without their permissions.

Source:
https://www.heritageweek.ie/content/files/Guidelines_for_taking_images.pdf

housetypeb · 15-07-2020 3:35pm

longgonesilver wrote: »

Only option i can see for the cork landlord is to pay/bribe his tenants to leave, give them their deposits back maybe suggest they go to the beach on holidays. It will cost thousands but solve the problem.

Could he get court orders against them forcing them to behave and not allow visitors into the house?

Sad state of affairs if the only option the landlord has is to bribe his tenants to leave to keep the neighbors happy.
Making landlords responsible for the behaviour of tenants seems at odds with the rights of tenants to enjoy their home as they see fit.

The_Conductor · 15-07-2020 3:40pm

housetypeb wrote: »

Sad state of affairs if the only option the landlord has is to bribe his tenants to leave to keep the neighbors happy.
Making landlords responsible for the behaviour of tenants seems at odds with the rights of tenants to enjoy their home as they see fit.

It puts landlords in a wholly untenable situation.
How is it ever plausible for one person to be responsible for the behaviour of another?
I fully accept that the neighbours are being terrorised by the students (in the Cork example)- however, what I don't get- is why the landlord is being dragged up to court- and not the students themselves.

A couple of nights on remand would put manners on the lot of them.

FAILSAFE 00 · 15-07-2020 3:43pm

It should be the tenants in court being held responsible for their behaviour.

15-07-2020 4:09pm

longgonesilver wrote: »

Only option i can see for the cork landlord is to pay/bribe his tenants to leave, give them their deposits back maybe suggest they go to the beach on holidays. It will cost thousands but solve the problem.

Could he get court orders against them forcing them to behave and not allow visitors into the house?

This fella is a seasoned LL with multiple properties, not a chance will he pay off people and get a name for being a soft touch.

longgonesilver · 15-07-2020 4:18pm

I know but what will the judge do? Can he order him to carry out an illegal act?

Landlord ends up in court for an illegal eviction and gets the first judge listed as a codefendant?

Crimsonred · 15-07-2020 4:31pm

Ramon Some Permit wrote: »

This fella is a seasoned LL with multiple properties, not a chance will he pay off people and get a name for being a soft touch.

He moved these tenants in during lockdown, students who would otherwise have travelled abroad for the summer, surely he would have known that this was likely to lead to a summer of hassle for local residents.

He would also have been aware of the temporary ban on evictions.

I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

Yellow_Fern · 15-07-2020 4:34pm

Crimsonred wrote: »

He moved these tenants in during lockdown, students who would otherwise have travelled abroad for the summer, surely he would have known that this was likely to lead to a summer of hassle for local residents.

He would also have been aware of the temporary ban on evictions.

I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

I dont know how you know this.

housetypeb · 15-07-2020 4:55pm

Crimsonred wrote: »

...

In the area around UCC some landlords rent out their houses to students from September to May at a premium price, then rent out the same properties at a cheaper rate from June to the end of August to whoever they can get to take short term lets.

These landlords are motivated by pure greed....

So what of it? It's a business.
Are they supposed to let properties empty because you don't like the business model they operate under?
Greed in your eyes might be a necessity in their eyes.

Blut2 · 15-07-2020 5:02pm

Very interesting case in Cork. Is there anything legal the landlord could do to 'encourage' the problem tenants to move out? Schedule maintenance/construction work at 8am every morning? Request the electricity to be cut off for the duration of the construction, for safety reasons?

It'll take him a long long time to get rid of the tenants through outright eviction otherwise. All the while its not even just him suffering, its the neighbours, and public health.

Crimsonred · 15-07-2020 7:58pm

housetypeb wrote: »

So what of it? It's a business.
Are they supposed to let properties empty because you don't like the business model they operate under?
Greed in your eyes might be a necessity in their eyes.

Fachtna O'Reilly is 80 years of age, does he really need the hassle at his age of dealing with this?

My point is that landlords make such a killing during college term in that part of the city that many of them are happy to leave their houses empty for the summer and to do whatever redecorating is needed for the next influx of students the following year.

Admittedly this year was exceptional because of covid-19, most students had moved out by the end of March, but the houses began to fill up again in early May which was when the trouble started. By all means let the landlords take in tenants for the closed season of college but to make locals lives hell for the summer is in my opinion unacceptable and I await with interest Friday's update.

Btw, this problem goes back at least as far as 2002, and beyond.

See below from 2002 on the topic.

HARASSED residents near University College Cork have hired a private security firm to monitor their area following a spate of public order incidents involving students.

Sean O'Callaghan, of the Connaught Avenue Residents Association, said locals currently employ a security guard on Thursday nights in a bid to determine who the prime troublemakers are. Mr O'Callaghan said residents are considering hiring the guard on Tuesdays because it has become a popular pub and nightclub night for students. "All the firm does is monitor the situation. On one occasion we had 70 students come out of one house after a party. At a later stage in the night a window box was thrown through my window because I was seen to have been one of the people who protested at the noise levels. My car window was broken," he said.

He said many residents were reluctant to complain because they feared students would take direct action against them.

The residents' group claims 34 out of 59 houses in Connaught Avenue are being rented to students.

They are calling for some form of disciplinary action to be taken by UCC against the students who harass locals or engage in anti-social behaviour when under the influence of alcohol.

Residents have also issued a complaint to landlords of houses which have been identified as being inhabited by unruly students.

Meanwhile, Cllr Colm Burke (FG) said a recent survey of five residents' groups near UCC revealed that 33pc of locals had notified gardai at some stage about disturbances caused by students.

Forty-seven per cent of residents expressed concern about increasing levels of intoxication among students living in the area.

Householders on the Western Road reported that damage is being caused to their properties by students who leave pubs to head in to nightclubs. Cllr Burke said residents in the UCC area were very worried about the way rental properties are being kept by students.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/security-firm-keeps-watch-on-unruly-students-26031997.html

Topgear on Dave · 15-07-2020 8:52pm

They've been letting them out over the summer for years. I had a house over the summer there somewhere around the Glasheen Road in 2001.

Landlords rights to evict tenants and tell them what to do have been severely and quite popularly curtailed.

The ultimate solution to this of course is to move UCC and CIT somewhere else. Or at least get them to stop taking in students.

FAILSAFE 00 · 15-07-2020 10:28pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

...

The ultimate solution to this of course is to move UCC and CIT somewhere else. Or at least get them to stop taking in students.

Or just bring the tenants swifly before the courts to be held accountable for their own actions.

The parties would be short lived then.

godtabh · 15-07-2020 10:30pm

housetypeb wrote: »

So what of it? It's a business.
Are they supposed to let properties empty because you don't like the business model they operate under?
Greed in your eyes might be a necessity in their eyes.

The government doesnt treat it that way

Eviction Ban extended

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