Fianna Fail don't have the character to lead us through a pandemic....

jetsonx · 13-07-2020 2:04pm #1

Do you really think Fianna Fail have the character to lead us through a pandemic? I don't.

Between the next waves of the pandemic and resulting economic fall out, Fianna Fail are in no position to lead. We're seeing that already with Cowan drink driving affair.

Look at the last time (2011), when the sh!t hit the fan, some ministers all of sudden had to resign due to "health problems". The type of politician the party seems to attract - usually cute hoor types lacking in moral backbone not suitable for in normal times let alone a crisis. This country could be sailing into some very heavy seas shortly. And I have absolutely no confidence in Fianna Fail up at helm.

KiKi III · 13-07-2020 2:05pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Do you really think Fianna Fail have the character to lead us through a pandemic? I don't.

Between the next waves of the pandemic and resulting economic fall out, Fianna Fail are in no position to lead. We're seeing that already with Cowan drink driving affair.

Look at the last time (2011), when the sh!t hit the fan, some ministers all of sudden had to resign due to "health problems". The type of politician the party seems to attract - usually cute hoor types lacking in moral backbone are suitable for in normal times let alone a crisis. This country could be sailing into some very heavy seas shortly. And I have absolutely no confidence in Fianna Fail up at helm.

And this post couldn’t have gone into any of the numerous threads already discussing the new government. It really needed its own.

jetsonx · 13-07-2020 2:13pm

KiKi III wrote: »

And this post couldn’t have gone into any of the numerous threads already discussing the new government. It really needed its own.

Thanks, but what was not mentioned on previous threads was the behaviour of this morally bankrupt party.

A lot of people seem to forget is that when a crisis gets really bad, their ministers claim "health difficulties" and resign.

KiKi III · 13-07-2020 2:13pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Thanks, but what was not mentioned on previous threads was the behaviour of this morally bankrupt party.

A lot of people seem to forget what Fianna Fail when a crisis gets really bad. Their ministers claim "health difficulties" and resign.

Which Ministers did that?

jetsonx · 13-07-2020 2:16pm

Dermot Ahern resigned.

Batt O'Keefe also claimed health difficulties and resigned.

And Barry Andrews didn't even feign illness - he just resigned.

Peregrinus · 14-07-2020 3:14am

jetsonx wrote: »

Dermot Ahern resigned.

Batt O'Keefe also claimed health difficulties and resigned.

And Barry Andrews didn't even feign illness - he just resigned.

Andrews didn't resign; he remained in office (as Minister of State for Children) until he lost his seat in the 2011 general election.

Peregrinus · 14-07-2020 3:40am

juslaw4 wrote: »

Andrews was a poor campaign - seemed not want re-elect.
may have been a "story" there

There was. He didn't want to throw good money after bad.

It was the 2011 general election. FF lost both of their seats in Dun Laoghaire, which was widely expected. Andrews had always been second violin in the constitency to the more senior Mary Hanafin , anyway, having trailed her in every election that he contested, so if by some miracle FF had retained a seat in Dun Laoghaire it would not have been Andrews'. FF's entire campaign in the constituency was an (unsuccessful) attempt to retain Hanafin's seat.

[Deleted User] · 14-07-2020 4:32am

Fianna Fail got us out of massive economic crises in 1987-91 and from, 2008-11, and onwards. .

It is true to say that they also got us into those crises, this is beside the point. To the best of our awareness, they didn't cause Covid.

The Four Year Plan that was devised by the late Brian Lenihan in 2010 was the blueprint to economic recovery that was adapted by the FG-LAB coalition Government in subsequent years. This blueprint created something which has probably only successfully worked in Ireland, and twice by Fianna Fail -- an expansaionary fiscal contraction. I challenge you to show me any other country that has done this in recent decades, let alone twice.

This was not a party political broadcast, I am setting out facts. People can throw around cheap political slogans all they want, but we have to remember our recent economic history, and what was achieved by all parties working together on reasonable solutions.

One final point. We came out of the last recession despite having almost no goodwill, and a hostile ECB which effectively forced the weaker countries into painful contractions. We now have international and European willingness to co-operate, and a completely altered culture at the ECB, which is willing to participate in unprecedented monetary intervention.

James Brown · 14-07-2020 6:32pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Thanks, but what was not mentioned on previous threads was the behaviour of this morally bankrupt party.

A lot of people seem to forget is that when a crisis gets really bad, their ministers claim "health difficulties" and resign.

FF are clever. Like FG they will follow the advice of medical professionals and experts in such matters as would any party. These are the key points.

They are as capable as their bedfellows FG in making a crony buck off of it, which is to be expected from them.
I think FF would be very similar to FG in managing the pandemic. Maybe not with the quoting movies for a bet while discussing Covid 19, but certainly the likes of a sweet private deal for pals or photo ops using it as a back drop.

seligehgit · 15-07-2020 8:05pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Fianna Fail got us out of massive economic crises in 1987-91 and from, 2008-11, and onwards. .

It is true to say that they also got us into those crises, this is beside the point. To the best of our awareness, they didn't cause Covid.

The Four Year Plan that was devised by the late Brian Lenihan in 2010 was the blueprint to economic recovery that was adapted by the FG-LAB coalition Government in subsequent years. This blueprint created something which has probably only successfully worked in Ireland, and twice by Fianna Fail -- an expansaionary fiscal contraction. I challenge you to show me any other country that has done this in recent decades, let alone twice.

This was not a party political broadcast, I am setting out facts. People can throw around cheap political slogans all they want, but we have to remember our recent economic history, and what was achieved by all parties working together on reasonable solutions.

One final point. We came out of the last recession despite having almost no goodwill, and a hostile ECB which effectively forced the weaker countries into painful contractions. We now have international and European willingness to co-operate, and a completely altered culture at the ECB, which is willing to participate in unprecedented monetary intervention.

Was not the constructive opposition of Fine Gael under the leadership of Alan Dukes ( The Tallaght Strategy ) a major contributory factor and more so the Troika diktat/the new government in 2011?

[Deleted User] · 15-07-2020 10:23pm

seligehgit wrote: »

Was not the constructive opposition of Fine Gael under the leadership of Alan Dukes ( The Tallaght Strategy ) a major contributory factor

The Tallaght Strategy did not involve economic input. Credit for reforms at the turn of the 1990s belongs to the Department of Finance, firstly, and then to Ray McSharry, although his successor Albert Reynolds was the one who took some of the credit.

more so the Troika diktat/the new government in 2011

Fine Gael actually held-off on their motion of no-confidence in the Government in 2011, so that the Finance Bill would get voted through. They didn't want to start off with that on their plate.

They implemented the 4 year plan that was formulated by Brian Lenihan and the Dept of Finance, which began its planning stages about ten years ago this summer, and will come to be seen as the blueprint of our recovery.

L1011 · 16-07-2020 12:57pm

Lenihan would have been in no position to implement it (ignoring his untimely death) as domestic and international confidence was never going to return until FF were out of office.

Basically nice thoughts until someone else came in; and modifications were made anyway. Quite a lot of it was basic common sense so not much value in being the one who wrote it down

[Deleted User] · 16-07-2020 3:29pm

L1011 wrote: »

Lenihan would have been in no position to implement it (ignoring his untimely death) as domestic and international confidence was never going to return until FF were out of office.

Basically nice thoughts until someone else came in; and modifications were made anyway. Quite a lot of it was basic common sense so not much value in being the one who wrote it down

The modifications were minor.

Crediting FG with devising the economic recovery is exactly like crediting Albert Reynolds as having been the architect of Ireland's economic regeneration at the turn of the 1990s, instead of Ray McSharry and the Dept. of Finance.

Reynolds was no great thinker, nor were Kenny and Noonan.

It's true that FG enjoyed public goodwill, and that made implementation easier, that's not in dispute, But the Plan for Economic Recovery was never their plan, and in fact, it's a pity that Brian Lenihan, its author, is rarely acknowledged even in death.

s1ippy · 16-07-2020 3:42pm

You don't need character to run a country.

I would be 100% satisfied if they never appeared in the media at all so long as journalists were briefed on what has gone on, why the actions were taken and what the consequences will be going forward.

Decisions to be made, there should be some sort of an online system, rather than having to seek out all the proposals and formally petition councillors about issues. Obviously the decision will need to be made off the foot of expert advice but people will get a chance to make their views known if there's a voting system online.

Too much time and money in politics is wasted developing the spin and PR. I'm actually incredibly glad to see the back of FG because of the Concannon influence. Though I can't help but feel in the last few weeks that they're still stirring away, with Barry Cowen and Roderic O'Gorman in the sh!t. It's pathetic and indicative of their party's small phallus paranoia. Gimpy weirdos the lot of them, mistakenly thinking they're alphas.

At least FF are upfront about what a shower they are, like a mean teacher. They don't bother even hiding their corruption. The sacking this week though shows that with the other parties in power-sharing, at least they're going to hold each other to account.

I wouldn't have total confidence in any political party to be able to navigate this with any degree of surety because the faffing around the place done in government doesn't lend itself to sweeping and evasive actions, the cogs turn too slowly.

This entire situation will ultimately herald the end of mass public belief in the systems tying them to work and taxation. Just wait until the money dries up, the bubble is going to burst and the dream will be over for them all. Aside from those relying on the welfare system long term now, if there's no release from the tension that builds up in work, it will become an untenable situation for anyone who isn't a complete robot and they'll opt out.

Young people have no pubs, no jobs, no hope of owning a house, no motivation to start a family (especially if there's no school system to babysit for them). There is seriously big trouble coming in the next two years.

Fianna Fail don't have the character to lead us through a pandemic....

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