FF/FG/Green Next Government

Edgware · 02-07-2020 05:23PM

mgn wrote: »

Not good enough for him, waiting around for the next Presidential election i would think.

So Lynn Ruane wont get a free run

McMurphy · 02-07-2020 05:27PM

Said way back in February that if FF and FG got together in an official Coalition that there was only so many ministerial positions to go around, and there would undoubtedly be some from either party who would feel they were overlooked - potentially resulting in fissures within the marriage and party's themselves.

Hand wave it away now.

Itssoeasy · 02-07-2020 05:34PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Well......ummmm

I can’t see this thing working.... total fcukery so far

Steady hand of FG needed...........you cant let the media turn you over like a drunken rabbit like Wilson did to Foley.

Should never have taken that interview, only a fool would have done that a day or two into the job.

Notice none of the experienced FG appointees have been heard of.

Baaaaad start.

Yet. Opening minutes of the game Brendan.

James Brown · 02-07-2020 05:36PM

Cal4567 wrote: »

Read that first as 'the big don' as in Corleone. Gangsters does come to mind.

5 days only and I'm beginning to want FG back at this stage.

They haven't gone away you know.

efanton · 02-07-2020 05:39PM

Bowie wrote: »

I think it's lack of leadership. They don't think MM will be around long or don't care how he looks. With FF and FG it's a sense self entitlement too.

There's that to it, but I suspect some of these high profile TD's are being cute hoors too. How many people seriously think this government will last the full five year term? I dont.

By distancing themselves from the inevitable sh!tstorms that are going to develop maybe they are putting themselves in positions where they can be the obvious contenders of leadership positions, or go to the electorate if the government collapses with 'clean hands'.

Bannasidhe · 02-07-2020 05:39PM

Edgware wrote: »

Moynihan has some grounds for complaint though.
He has been a very loyally F.F. man over the years, never engaged in trying to stop a running mate and put in the local work to get two out of three seats for F F. If the people appointed Minister or Junior Minister had done the same FF would have 50 plus seats. Cork N.W. stretches from the edge of Cork city to the Kerry Limerick border and is predominantly a rural constituency. Not that Junior Minister do fûcking anything anyway but it would keep the grassroots happy. Martin will have to pull some tricks to avoid a heave after 2022. The wolves are circling

3 full ministers and a junior from Cork? asked the Cork woman.

It's 'bad' enough the 3 ministers are all from the same constituency,not to mention 2 are seen as being from the same town.
To add a junior min to that would have been a complete PR disaster and who wouldn't get the nod? Coveney or McGrath?

James Brown · 02-07-2020 05:47PM

efanton wrote: »

There's that to it, but I suspect some of these high profile TD's are being cute hoors too. How many people seriously think this government will last the full five year term? I dont.

By distancing themselves from the inevitable sh!tstorms that are going to develop maybe they are putting themselves in positions where they can be the obvious contenders of leadership positions, or go to the electorate if the government collapses with 'clean hands'.

Once again we see the stability and stepping up ****e for what it is a collection of self interested people and parties. I would be honoured to be asked to help steer the country in any small way.

SpielCheck · 02-07-2020 05:49PM

Michael Martin gave a masterclass in waffling on 6-1

A portent of what to expect

PixieValentine · 02-07-2020 07:03PM

Cal4567 wrote: »

As I look at the front page now on their websites at 3pm on Thursday afternoon, both our main 'quality' papers are leading with SF and Michelle O'Neill's attendance in Dublin last weekend and at the funeral in Belfast story, which as news items, both are time limited, but they'll eek them out as much as they can.

If SF actually got into power, this would be wall to wall. Both papers would explode with indignation.

Not a pro or even an anti comment regarding any political party, but this 'let's find any angle to have a dig at SF' is getting tiresome. Before anyone else comes on and says, they deserve it, that's a fair point. It is that it is just getting ridiculous at this stage. Yet, they will decry social media for fake news etc but have a continuous agenda.

Perhaps the weekend supplements, about to be penned, can provide us with many column inches on FF cronyism, or is this still the honeymoon period for the government they, the media, actually wanted, so they get off on any criticism.

We did also have at least 3 or 4 straight days of headlines about Leo’s picnic in the park and endless debate about whether or not he broke lockdown, for what it's worth. Agreed about it being tiresome as hell, but it's just the way the media LOVE to drag stories like that out. The bigger the names involved the more we're stuck hearing about it. There was a lot less media attention and WAY less fuss when a Sinn Fein TD without question definitely DID break lockdown, travelling 50km to attend a party member’s funeral when the limit was 5km, less than a fortnight after that picnic. So it’s not only reserved for them.

jmayo wrote: »

Ringer is doing a bit of sh** stirring.

I think the whole thing shows how disconnected and weak the leaders are, particularly Martin.

They all know he is doomed and not long for the job of either leader of government or indeed his party.

And I bet Ring knows Varadker is planning an exit.
I think Leo has grander aspirations than playing second fiddle for a couple of years and maybe trying to hold together a very unhappy marriage with FF while keeping the mistress, the greens, happy as well .

This type of stuff would never have happened before, definitely not with FF anyway or indeed FG.
Yes people were disappointed, yes they were unhappy with the leaders, yes they organised heaves, but this is right out in the open not a week into power and they couldn't give a rats ass what their leaders think.

The FFers out peddling the line about the chief whip being a difficult important job are actually right seeing the way things are panning out.
The laugh is the plonker leader gave it to one of the ones now most unhappy.

You couldn't write this stuff as fiction.

Agreed with you about the leaders being in a weak position. It couldn’t look MORE like MM has no intention of staying on after he’s done his two years as Taoiseach right now, with the amount of enemies he’s made in literally week 1. But I’m curious about you saying that about Leo- mind if I ask, why do you think he’s about to bail? It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you exactly. I certainly don’t think he’s going to be another version of our newly-minted Taoiseach, still in politics and in and out of government until he’s 60 or anything, I think he’ll be long gone by then. I’m not sure I can even see him leading FG into another election in 5 years time- if this government lasts that long (not that there’s any confidence-inspiring indications it’ll even come close right now :P) But you’re not the first person I’ve seen saying that you think he’s planning his exit, and I’m just curious. I guess I don’t get why he’d go through all this trouble to put together the coalition, which as we know is enormously unpopular even with many in his own party, if he had no intention of at least trying to make it work? I mean, he could have just taken the easier route and taken FG into opposition, and let SF and FF and the rest of them at it, if either way he's set on leaving.

jmayo · 02-07-2020 07:34PM

PixieValentine wrote: »

...
Agreed with you about the leaders being in a weak position. It couldn’t look MORE like MM has no intention of staying on after he’s done his two years as Taoiseach right now, with the amount of enemies he’s made in literally week 1.

But I’m curious about you saying that about Leo- mind if I ask, why do you think he’s about to bail? It’s not that I’m disagreeing with you exactly. I certainly don’t think he’s going to be another version of our newly-minted Taoiseach, still in politics and in and out of government until he’s 60 or anything, I think he’ll be long gone by then. I’m not sure I can even see him leading FG into another election in 5 years time- if this government lasts that long (not that there’s any confidence-inspiring indications it’ll even come close right now :P) But you’re not the first person I’ve seen saying that you think he’s planning his exit, and I’m just curious. I guess I don’t get why he’d go through all this trouble to put together the coalition, which as we know is enormously unpopular even with many in his own party, if he had no intention of at least trying to make it work? I mean, he could have just taken the easier route and taken FG into opposition, and let SF and FF and the rest of them at it, if either way he's set on leaving.

The party is just not one person.
There are others in the party who might like the old power.
What about Paschal and Simon ?
Two very high profile positions, one getting to have his name very well known due to Brexit.

And Leo is still the defacto deputy prime minister.
Not so bad to have it current on the CV.
And if they are in opposition his position as leader is more under threat.
Some of the key guys have nothing better to do bar than sharpen the knives.
Being in government keeps them busy for a bit.

But I just can't see him busting his ass dong the chicken sandwich circuit ala haughey with ff or indeed Kenny building up the party after Noonan.

Even though in government remember the two Simons on the sidelines.
The one in Cork definitely wants the top job and will sooner or later want to heave Leo.
Pretty bad local election result, bad by elections, and the knives start appearing.

And Leo definitely hasn't the political ability of Kenny to put down a revolt.
Yes you read that last sentence right.
Kenny showed his political abilities when he was totally outnumbered and on the ropes.
He taught Bruton and indeed Leo a lesson.

I expect Leo to show up in Europe.

I'd say he would ultimately fancy something like Commission president.

Podge_irl · 02-07-2020 09:10PM

jmayo wrote: »

I expect Leo to show up in Europe.

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Snow Garden · 02-07-2020 09:25PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Yeah but Trickle Hogan and Dara 'Expenses' Murphy have shown that it is the land of milk and honey. With the UK leaving, our native English speaking politicians are even more in demand for dealing with chancers in USA/UK/Canada/Australia etc.

efanton · 02-07-2020 09:27PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Lets be honest here, no Taoiseach in the last 20 years can actually say they have have a glowing CV. None have delivered even a fraction of their election promises and none have had the respect of the majority of the people

Bertie, a taoiseach caught with his hands in the till,
BIFFO a taoiseach that almost single handedly bankrupted a nation
Enda, a Taoiseach who could no get his lines right even in front of a teleprompter and made up things on the spur of the moment
Leo a Taoiseach that never once delivered an election promise, and proven to have lied in our parliament.
And now we have Mehole a man that couldnt answer a direct question even it it had a YES/NO answer

If you were in the EU recruiting for a high profile job, would you seriously consider one of the above?

Edgware · 02-07-2020 10:17PM

jmayo wrote: »

The party is just not one person.
There are others in the party who might like the old power.
What about Paschal and Simon ?
Two very high profile positions, one getting to have his name very well known due to Brexit.

And Leo is still the defacto deputy prime minister.
Not so bad to have it current on the CV.
And if they are in opposition his position as leader is more under threat.
Some of the key guys have nothing better to do bar than sharpen the knives.
Being in government keeps them busy for a bit.

But I just can't see him busting his ass dong the chicken sandwich circuit ala haughey with ff or indeed Kenny building up the party after Noonan.

Even though in government remember the two Simons on the sidelines.
The one in Cork definitely wants the top job and will sooner or later want to heave Leo.
Pretty bad local election result, bad by elections, and the knives start appearing.

And Leo definitely hasn't the political ability of Kenny to put down a revolt.
Yes you read that last sentence right.
Kenny showed his political abilities when he was totally outnumbered and on the ropes.
He taught Bruton and indeed Leo a lesson.

I expect Leo to show up in Europe.

I'd say he would ultimately fancy something like Commission president.

Can you go through that again?

Edgware · 02-07-2020 10:20PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

Yeah but Trickle Hogan and Dara 'Expenses' Murphy have shown that it is the land of milk and honey. With the UK leaving, our native English speaking politicians are even more in demand for dealing with chancers in USA/UK/Canada/Australia etc.

Don't forget Wallace Daly and Flanagan, all well able to stick their heads into Der Trough

Bannasidhe · 02-07-2020 10:29PM

Edgware wrote: »

Don't forget Wallace Daly and Flanagan, all well able to stick their heads into Der Trough

None of whom are TDs so that is complete whataboutery.
Dara Murphy brought head in the trough to a whole new level. More relevant to TDs troughing than Flanagan who hasn't been a TD for 6 years.

mgn · 02-07-2020 10:42PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

None of whom are TDs so that is complete whataboutery.
Dara Murphy brought head in the trough to a whole new level. More relevant to TDs troughing than Flanagan who hasn't been a TD for 6 years.

The same Flanagan that use to jump up and down about politicians getting paid to much, and if he got elected he would give half of his salary back to local projects.

Soon changed his tune when he jumped on the MEPs gravy train.

Bannasidhe · 03-07-2020 12:29AM

mgn wrote: »

The same Flanagan that use to jump up and down about politicians getting paid to much, and if he got elected he would give half of his salary back to local projects.

Soon changed his tune when he jumped on the MEPs gravy train.

6 years ago.

Better example still would be Doherty whose company went into liquidation in 2013 with debts of €280k - cira €60k to Revenue,€50k to AIB - their own auditors reported proper accounts weren't kept. Vat monies owed were written off.
https://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

Doherty herself was on a basic TD salary (€92,672 according to https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-salaries-slashed-by-17000-26628389.html ) at the time.

While chief whip there was the matter of the questionable top up of €15,829. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/allowance-paid-to-chief-whip-was-illegal-labour-leader-claims-1.3126893. She did say she was paying that back after getting a letter from Department of Public Expenditure and Reform

By 2017 her pay was €87,258 basic plus €70,282 = €157,540.

By 2020 it was €96,189 + €79,510 salaried allowance = €175,699 according to https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/salaries/

She lost her seat but continued to be paid €1,529.03 a week (https://extra.ie/2020/05/17/news/politics/taxpayers-ghost-ministers-lost-seats) until new govt formed ( I think it's fair she was paid - she was genuinely doing the job) however she also received a 'termination payment' of approx €15,000 plus an additional pay of between €5,600 and €6,500 . So rounding down she got €20k for being fired by the electorate. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-tds-who-lost-or-gave-up-seats-are-paid-586k-991404.html

She is now leader of the very Seanad she lead the campaign to abolish and on a salary of €68,111 plus €20,177 = €88,288 - I haven't even included the various 'expenses' she (and every other TD/Senator) can claim and have claimed.
The info is here if you want to go through it https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8b2180-ministers-expenses/

Now that is a relevant trough.

Not an independent who was never within a sniff of governing and was elected an MEP 6 bloody years ago.

c.p.w.g.w · 03-07-2020 12:34AM

Find it all very strange, do FF TD's realise how poorly their party is polling...if another election happens this year, most of the lads complaining will be out of work, and the ones who are re-elected are out of government in all likelihood

Bannasidhe · 03-07-2020 12:38AM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Find it all very strange, do FF TD's realise how poorly their party is polling...if another election happens this year, most of the lads complaining will be out of work, and the ones who are re-elected are out of government in all likelihood

Perhaps they want the big paying jobs to increase the eventual payoff/pension once the FF ship sinks?

efanton · 03-07-2020 12:59AM

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Find it all very strange, do FF TD's realise how poorly their party is polling...if another election happens this year, most of the lads complaining will be out of work, and the ones who are re-elected are out of government in all likelihood

Its not the current pay they are chasing.
Those minister pensions add up to a whole pile of money over a lifetime,

ExMachina1000 · 03-07-2020 05:51AM

Is there anything that can be done apart from going on about it repeatedly, anonymously online

Shefwedfan · 03-07-2020 06:06AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Is there anything that can be done apart from going on about it repeatedly, anonymously online

Another mass?

ExMachina1000 · 03-07-2020 06:39AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Another mass?

Bit old for fairy tales but willing to try if it might help

Brendan Bendar · 03-07-2020 07:00AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

None of whom are TDs so that is complete whataboutery.
Dara Murphy brought head in the trough to a whole new level. More relevant to TDs troughing than Flanagan who hasn't been a TD for 6 years.

Three biggest chancers who ever left Ireland, a chara.

jmayo · 03-07-2020 08:57AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Has the same not been said for every Taoiseach going back to Bertie at least? And none of them have ended up in Europe.

Well bertie had a hell of a whiff about him.
No bank account would remind too many people in Europe of the mafia perhaps.:rolleyes:
Then there was the cringey cupboard.

Besides I think the yellow suit was the beginning of the end for him.
They didn't need The Man from Del Monte with the northside brogue.

Cowen had acted like an oaf in Europe and had burned a lot of bridges.
If they needed a village drunk they could find one somewhere else.

And yes Enda does not come across well in media, that has always been his problem.
In the grand scheme of things he actually will go down as one of our better leaders, although the likes of the Dubs will never admit it.
As I said earlier politically he taught the much lauded and media loved Leo a few things.

As for Leo he is a media lovie, has appeared to deal with the Brits and Brexit reasonably well.
Came across well in Europe, was a very good boy taking all things EU on board.
And don't forget how offering to go in as doctor to help during covid lockdown is going to play.
Europeans couldn't care less whether he didn't deal with our housing or health care issues or that he allowed that muppet Flanagan propose commemorating the British forces in War of Independence.

He is going to be another Bruton Mark I.

As for Martin he will be lucky if he can crawl after the disgruntled soldiers of destiny have finished with him.

Edgware wrote: »

Can you go through that again?

Yeah I will Pm it all to you, special like. :cool:

Snow Garden · 03-07-2020 09:13AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

6 years ago.

Better example still would be Doherty whose company went into liquidation in 2013 with debts of €280k - cira €60k to Revenue,€50k to AIB - their own auditors reported proper accounts weren't kept. Vat monies owed were written off.
https://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

Doherty herself was on a basic TD salary (€92,672 according to https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-salaries-slashed-by-17000-26628389.html ) at the time.

While chief whip there was the matter of the questionable top up of €15,829. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/allowance-paid-to-chief-whip-was-illegal-labour-leader-claims-1.3126893. She did say she was paying that back after getting a letter from Department of Public Expenditure and Reform

By 2017 her pay was €87,258 basic plus €70,282 = €157,540.

By 2020 it was €96,189 + €79,510 salaried allowance = €175,699 according to https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/salaries/

She lost her seat but continued to be paid €1,529.03 a week (https://extra.ie/2020/05/17/news/politics/taxpayers-ghost-ministers-lost-seats) until new govt formed ( I think it's fair she was paid - she was genuinely doing the job) however she also received a 'termination payment' of approx €15,000 plus an additional pay of between €5,600 and €6,500 . So rounding down she got €20k for being fired by the electorate. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-tds-who-lost-or-gave-up-seats-are-paid-586k-991404.html

She is now leader of the very Seanad she lead the campaign to abolish and on a salary of €68,111 plus €20,177 = €88,288 - I haven't even included the various 'expenses' she (and every other TD/Senator) can claim and have claimed.
The info is here if you want to go through it https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/8b2180-ministers-expenses/

Now that is a relevant trough.

Not an independent who was never within a sniff of governing and was elected an MEP 6 bloody years ago.

Wow I did not know a lot of that. The FG TDs really went to town over the last few years when they knew FF couldn't say too much.

When they weren't robbing the electorate they were tying to rip off businesses with dodgy insurance claims (e.g. Farrell and Bailey). Farrell was successful in his attempt and somehow got re-elected. Some country.

The case was heard before Judge Michael Coghlan who said there were "slightly unusual" aspects to it, including the fact a claim for damages to his car was dropped. The judge said: "There is little or no notation to back up a claim of significant whiplash." During proceedings, a photograph was shown of Mr Farrell at the top of a ladder with his hands on an election poster, taken four months after the accident. Mr Farrell said the photo was staged.

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2020 09:21AM

Snow Garden wrote: »

Wow I did not know a lot of that. The FG TDs really went to town over the last few years when they knew FF couldn't say too much.

When they weren't robbing the electorate they were tying to rip off businesses with dodgy insurance claims (e.g. Farrell and Bailey). Farrell was successful in his attempt and somehow got re-elected. Some country.

Yeah. Someone should get €50,000 worth of print cartridges and print off these outrageous scandals.

FrancieBrady · 03-07-2020 09:45AM

Great to see the 'pump' ain't broke anyway.

https://twitter.com/fionnansheahan/status/1278985904019968000

Kermit.de.frog · 03-07-2020 09:47AM

Isn't Sheahan's partner a Fianna Fáilure?

They invented the parish pump!

FF/FG/Green Next Government

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