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M40 motorway redesignation and demand management system [works ongoing]

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Comments

  • #242
    EnzoScifo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭EnzoScifo


    They are installing Automatic Licence plate recognition cameras as well. Make of that what you will.


  • #243
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    I understood that this was prioritised as part of the enabling works for the dunkettle interchange upgrade. Presumably to provide journey time estimates and assist with routing and lane management during the works. I suspect that the people whinging about it now are the same ones who would decry it’s absence were it not in place once the works commence

    No pleasing some people.

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  • #244
    cantalach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Hibernicis wrote: »
    I understood that this was prioritised as part of the enabling works for the dunkettle interchange upgrade. Presumably to provide journey time estimates and assist with routing and lane management during the works. I suspect that the people whinging about it now are the same ones who would decry it’s absence were it not in place once the works commence

    Not in my case. Its presence or absence when the Dunkettle work starts will matter not a jot to me because my daily commute doesn't involve any of the affected N roads. In fact, I try to walk whenever I can.


  • #245
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    cantalach wrote: »
    Not in my case. Its presence or absence when the Dunkettle work starts will matter not a jot to me because my daily commute doesn't involve any of the affected N roads. In fact, I try to walk whenever I can.

    I'm in the same boat: I avoid Dunkettle whenever possible.

    These are a dedicated body of work, part of CMATS, funded separately and standing as a body of work outside of the Dunkettle Interchange entirely. They might help a little during the interchange work, but so would temporary displays at a minute fraction of the cost.

    AKA, Dunkettle Interchange works would be a poor justification for this expenditure.

    As per the post by Cantalach, what are they going to do? A big sign up to tell you "you're completely snookered, there are few viable alternatives, sit tight for a few hours".


  • #246
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,266 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    cantalach wrote: »
    Not in my case. Its presence or absence when the Dunkettle work starts will matter not a jot to me because my daily commute doesn't involve any of the affected N roads. In fact, I try to walk whenever I can.


    I would too, but sadly my home and my job are 32km apart and neither are movable. Nor is there a reasonable public transport option.


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  • #247
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,013 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    cantalach wrote: »
    Not in my case. Its presence or absence when the Dunkettle work starts will matter not a jot to me because my daily commute doesn't involve any of the affected N roads. In fact, I try to walk whenever I can.

    Not easy to do if you're driving from East cork ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #248
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The VMS signs (along with other elements) are one of the outcomes of the N40 Demand Management Study published some years ago.

    It’s worth a read for anyone interested or if you run out of stuff to look at the next time you’re on the toilet.


  • #249
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,266 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I may sketch it out someday, but I had a good look at Google today, and its perfectly possible to widen the Douglas Viaduct to 3 lanes each way for only a tiny bit of land take from the pitches nearby and by demolishing an electricity substation, as well as a small encroachment towards the fire damaged shopping center. So when the TII lads say it isn't possible to widen it, that is not true.


  • #250
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I may sketch it out someday, but I had a good look at Google today, and its perfectly possible to widen the Douglas Viaduct to 3 lanes each way for only a tiny bit of land take from the pitches nearby and by demolishing an electricity substation, as well as a small encroachment towards the fire damaged shopping center. So when the TII lads say it isn't possible to widen it, that is not true.

    I’ve always believed that widening it wouldn’t be that all that difficult. As you say, some land acquisition, some demolition and some clever engineering/bridge building solutions. It might also be necessary to loose a slip road or two. But certainly nothing that hasn’t been tackled in many urban motorway projects around the world.

    As a matter of interest, have you a reference for TII’s statement that it is impossible ? I’d like to understand their reasons for stating this so categorically.

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  • #251
    350125GO!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭350125GO!


    Better to remove and rebuild...

    https://www.steelconstruction.info/Ladder_deck_composite_bridges

    It would be better to remove as much of that 'wall' through Douglas village and the widen / renaturalise the river culvert.

    https://restorerivers.eu/wiki/index.php?title=Case_study%3ARemoving_a_weir_and_renaturalising_the_Iton_River_on_the_Plis_industrial_site_in_Hondouville

    https://www.therrc.co.uk › lrapPDF
    the london rivers action plan - the River Restoration Centre


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  • #252
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I've started a thread on widening the Douglas flyover here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058042716


  • #253
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,013 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    marno21 wrote: »
    I've started a thread on widening the Douglas flyover here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058042716

    Isn't there a house or 2 right next the flyover on the east bound side ? I know there's an entrance way right next to the bridge ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #254
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I don't think we should widen the Douglas flyover for a few reasons:
    1: It still leaves the N40 South as a single point of failure, the N40 North is still needed
    2: The majority of peak traffic is single-occupant commuters which we need to remove from the system urgently. Providing more capacity is counter-productive to this.
    3: Cost - it's a relatively densely built area at present, increasing project cost.
    4: Noise, quality of life and resulting objections - it's a relatively densely populated area at present. Larger traffic volume on the road will not be ideal.

    Better to get on with M40 North and the Northern/Southern distributors from CMATS


  • #255
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    First VMS sign in place now eastbound at the Bloomfield Interchange. Went in during the week


  • #256
    blindsider
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Another installed Eastbound after the Wilton on-ramp..


  • #257
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭kub


    EnzoScifo wrote: »
    They are installing Automatic Licence plate recognition cameras as well. Make of that what you will.


    They sure are and so far they are fitted on poles at the overpass of The Bishopstown Roundabout and The KRR, viewing the N40 itself.


    Also at the KRR they are fitted on poles at the N40 East and West approches to the actual roundabout.


  • #258
    cantalach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭cantalach


    kub wrote: »
    They sure are and so far they are fitted on poles at the overpass of The Bishopstown Roundabout and The KRR, viewing the N40 itself.

    Also at the KRR they are fitted on poles at the N40 East and West approches to the actual roundabout.


    Do you have a reliable source for the claim that the cameras perform number plate recognition? Collecting that data would serve no current purpose given that it is not being used for road charging or traffic law enforcement purposes. A number plate is PII and collecting any PII without a strong justification for doing so runs counter to the prevailing mood in most large businesses and government bodies. Organisations must not collect PII on the off chance they find something useful to do with it at some point in the future.


  • #259
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The ANPR is used to rear registration plates to measure journey times along the route.

    The registration plates are just used to differentiate between vehicles rather than identifying individual vehicles


  • #260
    cantalach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭cantalach


    marno21 wrote: »
    The ANPR is used to rear registration plates to measure journey times along the route.

    The registration plates are just used to differentiate between vehicles rather than identifying individual vehicles

    So there is no requirement to retain data for more than say, one hour. In fact it’s not even necessary to use the reg number at all. The number could be hashed at source and the hash rather than the actual number used to correlate between different gantries. Any idea if a data retention policy been published? I feel a mail to the Data Commissioner coming on.


  • #261
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    cantalach wrote: »
    So there is no requirement to retain data for more than say, one hour. In fact it’s not even necessary to use the reg number at all. The number could be hashed at source and the hash rather than the actual number used to correlate between different gantries. Any idea if a data retention policy been published? I feel a mail to the Data Commissioner coming on.
    I would imagine that what's rolled out in Cork will be a carbon copy of the system used on the M50 and approach roads in Dublin.


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  • #262
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    There another one of the Glanmire bypass going north about 1/2 mile before the Glanmire exit.


  • #263
    NedNew2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 400 ✭✭NedNew2


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    There another one of the Glanmire bypass going north about 800m before the Glanmire exit.

    I think there is another a few km before Fermoy northbound.


  • #264
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭kub


    cantalach wrote: »
    Do you have a reliable source for the claim that the cameras perform number plate recognition?


    I know a thing or two about CCTV ;)


  • #265
    cantalach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭cantalach


    kub wrote: »
    I know a thing or two about CCTV ;)

    And I know a thing or two about data security ;)


  • #266
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭kub


    cantalach wrote: »
    And I know a thing or two about data security ;)


    They would have their hands full so with the 2 of us :D.


    I noticed another 2 today, one of the infamous South Link Road ( yes the actual one ;) ) on that lay by, inbound approx 100 meters before the Boreenmanna Road junction.


    The other one is approx 20 meters after the roundabout at Shanbally on the N28, heading towards Ringaskiddy.


  • #267
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Not a word about motorway reclassification in some time now.

    Was heading west on the N40 after the Togher exit there. 2 tractors in the middle lane about 500m apart heading for the Wilton exit. Cars passing the tractors on either side and lots of braking and traffic in general moving at about 60km/h.

    The N40 is simply too busy for this carry on. Same job with cyclists on this stretch which has no hard shoulder. It’s simply too busy. I do understand that cycling facilities in this area are not up to scratch either, which badly needs addressing. There’s a greenway between J4 and J6 which could get an upgrade and might help wirh some of it.

    A motorway order can’t come quick enough.


  • #268
    kub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,585 ✭✭✭kub


    marno21 wrote: »
    Not a word about motorway reclassification in some time now.

    Was heading west on the N40 after the Togher exit there. 2 tractors in the middle lane about 500m apart heading for the Wilton exit. Cars passing the tractors on either side and lots of braking and traffic in general moving at about 60km/h.

    The N40 is simply too busy for this carry on. Same job with cyclists on this stretch which has no hard shoulder. It’s simply too busy. I do understand that cycling facilities in this area are not up to scratch either, which badly needs addressing. There’s a greenway between J4 and J6 which could get an upgrade and might help wirh some of it.

    A motorway order can’t come quick enough.


    Agreed it is downright dangerous for all concerned.

    There may not be any updates but the works are ongoing in that from what I can see all of the screens are now fitted on all of the gantries.


  • #269
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Not a word about motorway reclassification in some time now.

    Was heading west on the N40 after the Togher exit there. 2 tractors in the middle lane about 500m apart heading for the Wilton exit. Cars passing the tractors on either side and lots of braking and traffic in general moving at about 60km/h.

    The N40 is simply too busy for this carry on. Same job with cyclists on this stretch which has no hard shoulder. It’s simply too busy. I do understand that cycling facilities in this area are not up to scratch either, which badly needs addressing. There’s a greenway between J4 and J6 which could get an upgrade and might help wirh some of it.

    A motorway order can’t come quick enough.

    Made these points on various fora over the years. Some of the responses noted that pedestrians and cyclists alike have a right to be there. Crazy.


  • #270
    Treehelpplease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 319 ✭✭Treehelpplease


    I was driving in from Carrigaline and noticed most of the screens on the big things are up, at least in the city: Maryborough Hill, Bloomfield, by the N40, N27 out of the city centre. Nice to seee. I wonder when they will turn them on


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  • #271
    cantalach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Treehelpplease wrote: »
    I was driving in from Carrigaline and noticed most of the screens on the big things are up, at least in the city: Maryborough Hill, Bloomfield, by the N40, N27 out of the city centre. Nice to seee. I wonder when they will turn them on

    The ANPR part of the system is due to become operational in September at the earliest. Not sure if the signs will be displaying other info before then.


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