No Camogie & GF All Ireland for Underage

greenspurs · 30-06-2020 9:54am #1

https://www.the42.ie/ladies-football-county-minor-cancellations-5135398-Jun2020/

Absolutley stupid decision!

greenspurs · 30-06-2020 9:55am

Disgraceful decision by the LGFA and Leinster GF council, And the Camogie association.
No All Ireland series for Minor/U16/U14/U12
A few provincial series , none in Leinster.

Makes a pure mockery of the "20x"20" and "If she cant see, she cant be it" ..
How is that decision supposed to keep girls interested? Its hard enough to get girls onto pitches , and now they decide this !! Pure fcuking stupidity.....
All the work that is being done by a few clubs in Kilkenny to keep GF going, and they get this decision from the legislators !

theoneeyedman · 30-06-2020 1:29pm

Far from a disgraceful decision IMHO.
Having being involved with Ladies football for many years, including being chair of our club and a regular attendee at County board meetings, there is too much county football anyway. The likes of the U14, It's a never ending story, ay round Robin, province, lose. That drop into B competition, lose that drip into C competition, ad infinitum, and all the while the girls are being pulled and dragged and kept away from their club teammates, who are waiting for the county 'stars' to finish and come back to them.
Too much emphasis on so called elite, at ages it 11 or 12,madness :these girls should have strong structures at club level and go to county at U18 or the very earliest U16.

Many of these competitions are driven by parents and misguided officials more than by players. In many cases, just so that can say we got to an All Ireland semifinal, (albeit a C semifinal versus a 'hurling county'

This petition is BS of the highest order

CrabRevolution · 30-06-2020 1:54pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Far from a disgraceful decision IMHO.
Having being involved with Ladies football for many years, including being chair of our club and a regular attendee at County board meetings, there is too much county football anyway. The likes of the U14, It's a never ending story, ay round Robin, province, lose. That drop into B competition, lose that drip into C competition, ad infinitum, and all the while the girls are being pulled and dragged and kept away from their club teammates, who are waiting for the county 'stars' to finish and come back to them.
Too much emphasis on so called elite, at ages it 11 or 12,madness :these girls should have strong structures at club level and go to county at U18 or the very earliest U16.

Many of these competitions are driven by parents and misguided officials more than by players. In many cases, just so that can say we got to an All Ireland semifinal, (albeit a C semifinal versus a 'hurling county'

This petition is BS of the highest order

I'm not personally involved, but I've gotten this impression too. There seems to be an endless number of competitions and shields plus B and C competitions and different provincial and all Ireland competitions. It seems more difficult to get eliminated than to win.

On top of this there seems to be way more emphasis placed on U12/U14 inter county in ladies football and no scale of increasing prestige or weight from U-12 up to minor to U21 to senior. I couldn't tell you how Meath U14 hurlers/footballers are doing until maybe a summary article is published at the end of the year detailing how they got on in their blitzes. Yet the Meath LGFA seem to devote the same publicity and publish the same lengthy reports and photos from every one of the seemingly interminable series of intercounty underage Ladies Football games as they would to senior ones.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't give them games, or that we should be downplaying their achievements or not recognising their efforts. But there does seem to be a total oversaturation of underage ladies intercounty football that I don't see replicated in the mens' sport (or even camogie). Surely there comes a point where having the top 20 players in a county play yet another losers' shield plate game or third tier round robin game does less for the players' development than just having them play with their clubs?

That said it does seem strange that there are no competitions at all. You'd think one quick straight knockout championship would be runnable.

greenspurs · 30-06-2020 2:13pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Far from a disgraceful decision IMHO.
Having being involved with Ladies football for many years, including being chair of our club and a regular attendee at County board meetings, there is too much county football anyway. The likes of the U14, It's a never ending story, ay round Robin, province, lose. That drop into B competition, lose that drip into C competition, ad infinitum, and all the while the girls are being pulled and dragged and kept away from their club teammates, who are waiting for the county 'stars' to finish and come back to them.
Too much emphasis on so called elite, at ages it 11 or 12,madness :these girls should have strong structures at club level and go to county at U18 or the very earliest U16.

Many of these competitions are driven by parents and misguided officials more than by players. In many cases, just so that can say we got to an All Ireland semifinal, (albeit a C semifinal versus a 'hurling county'

This petition is BS of the highest order

Im using Co. Kilkenny as my example -
"too much county football" ?- I would look at it the other way, theres not enough Club football being run to keep girls playing.
And isn't being picked for a county team what drives most people on? Isnt that the carrot that should be dangled in front of all players?
The U14 play 5-6 club games , a league format , that then runs into a Championship/Shield final. Maybe 8 games max.
With Kilkenny u14 gf team this year, they were playing a blitz style format in Kildare , with 2 more rounds to be played later (before Covid arrived).
That is hardly "too much county football".

"all the while the girls are being pulled and dragged and kept away from their club teammates, who are waiting for the county 'stars' to finish and come back to them" -
That's Bs. In Kilkenny, if the county teams are playing, theres no club games on, due to the amount of girls on each club team!
We have 9 U14 players this year (6 u14 + 3 U13 with the balance being pulled out of u12 to field teams!)

Granted , all the competitions, could be trimmed back a bit, with less Shield trophies etc, but there is not an excessive amount of games played up to U16s.

greenspurs · 30-06-2020 2:21pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I'm not personally involved, but I've gotten this impression too. There seems to be an endless number of competitions and shields plus B and C competitions and different provincial and all Ireland competitions. It seems more difficult to get eliminated than to win.

On top of this there seems to be way more emphasis placed on U12/U14 inter county in ladies football and no scale of increasing prestige or weight from U-12 up to minor to U21 to senior. I couldn't tell you how Meath U14 hurlers/footballers are doing until maybe a summary article is published at the end of the year detailing how they got on in their blitzes. Yet the Meath LGFA seem to devote the same publicity and publish the same lengthy reports and photos from every one of the seemingly interminable series of intercounty underage Ladies Football games as they would to senior ones.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't give them games, or that we should be downplaying their achievements or not recognising their efforts. But there does seem to be a total oversaturation of underage ladies intercounty football that I don't see replicated in the mens' sport (or even camogie). Surely there comes a point where having the top 20 players in a county play yet another losers' shield plate game or third tier round robin game does less for the players' development than just having them play with their clubs?

That said it does seem strange that there are no competitions at all. You'd think one quick straight knockout championship would be runnable.

Are you mixing up hurling with under age camogie and GF ?
I don't know what its like in other counties, but here in Kilkenny theres about 8 clubs that run girls G/f , so when the "top 20" are playing with their county team , theres no clubs games on, because clubs couldn't field team due to limited numbers!

"Now I'm not saying we shouldn't give them games, or that we should be downplaying their achievements or not recognising their efforts. But there does seem to be a total oversaturation of underage ladies intercounty football that I don't see replicated in the mens' sport (or even camogie)"

Im not saying, but I just said it?
An "oversaturation" ? of reporting or of games ?

They cant run the competitions, but they want the kids to go to Cul Camps !
Cash flow is better than games.

beggars_bush · 30-06-2020 2:32pm

Focussing on elite level games for 14 year olds when most girls aged 14 don't exercise enough is farcical

Same for 17/18 year olds
Focus should be on games for all

greenspurs · 30-06-2020 2:35pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Focussing on elite level games for 14 year olds when most girls aged 14 don't exercise enough is farcical

Same for 17/18 year olds
Focus should be on games for all

Focussing on elite level?
Who ? Me ? or the LGFA ? Camogie Association?
Well its hardly them , seeing the binned them..
ME - I think they are beneficial to the girls that do get picked for county teams -meeting new people, experience, respect etc. How can it be a bad thing?

Do you think the same for boys ?

CrabRevolution · 30-06-2020 4:24pm

greenspurs wrote: »

Are you mixing up hurling with under age camogie and GF ?
I don't know what its like in other counties, but here in Kilkenny theres about 8 clubs that run girls G/f , so when the "top 20" are playing with their county team , theres no clubs games on, because clubs couldn't field team due to limited numbers!

"Now I'm not saying we shouldn't give them games, or that we should be downplaying their achievements or not recognising their efforts. But there does seem to be a total oversaturation of underage ladies intercounty football that I don't see replicated in the mens' sport (or even camogie)"

Im not saying, but I just said it?
An "oversaturation" ? of reporting or of games ?

They cant run the competitions, but they want the kids to go to Cul Camps !
Cash flow is better than games.

We can't base the whole country's systems off one particularly weak county though, no offence to Kilkenny footballers. This decision only affects the elite in each county, but obviously in some counties the elite form a pretty large cohort of the players.

My example was Meath, where there are several dozen clubs and hundreds of players. Having 25 of those players play an endless stream of intercounty games over and over does nothing for the vast majority of players in the county and is more likely to turn girls away from the club game having to wait for their county players to come back.

You also totally misinterpret my point on coverage. In hurling and football, there is (at the organisational level anyway) a strong emphasis on not having elite groups and stratifying players at lower ages. Participation, development and fun are what's stressed even at intercounty level. You'll see 100s of players on development panels, counties entering multiple teams into blitzes until about U16s when it turns more serious. And as I said coverage is minimal because they're not supposed to be "teams" in the normal competitive sense anyway but a means to develop players.

It seems to be the opposite in Ladies Football where from U12 up you have an elite bunch chosen from the county in order to beat other teams competitively and it's presented as such.

greenspurs · 30-06-2020 4:58pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

We can't base the whole country's systems off one particularly weak county though, no offence to Kilkenny footballers. This decision only affects the elite in each county, but obviously in some counties the elite form a pretty large cohort of the players.

My example was Meath, where there are several dozen clubs and hundreds of players. Having 25 of those players play an endless stream of intercounty games over and over does nothing for the vast majority of players in the county and is more likely to turn girls away from the club game having to wait for their county players to come back.

You also totally misinterpret my point on coverage. In hurling and football, there is (at the organisational level anyway) a strong emphasis on not having elite groups and stratifying players at lower ages. Participation, development and fun are what's stressed even at intercounty level. You'll see 100s of players on development panels, counties entering multiple teams into blitzes until about U16s when it turns more serious. And as I said coverage is minimal because they're not supposed to be "teams" in the normal competitive sense anyway but a means to develop players.

It seems to be the opposite in Ladies Football where from U12 up you have an elite bunch chosen from the county in order to beat other teams competitively and it's presented as such.

Wow !! :rolleyes:

So fcuk the weaker counties that are trying to improve and develop the game?
Well done Meath ….

theoneeyedman · 30-06-2020 8:58pm

greenspurs wrote: »

Wow !! :rolleyes:

So fcuk the weaker counties that are trying to improve and develop the game?
Well done Meath ….

Wow is right, you're taking this very personally there.

The Meath person is 100% correct. The LGFA is about 20 years behind, and are making the same mistakes as the GAA were doing many moons ago, having too competitive structures and games too young.
Girls have county U12? There aren't even official U12 CLUB competitions for boys in many counties.... now you could argue that's overkill, but the emphasis at this age (probably at least to 13/14 IMHO) should be on participation and the 'sport for all'. It doesn't always work out like that, mainly die to parents and other organisations like Cumman na mBunscoil organising their own competitions, , but tbf to the GAA they at least try to enforce the non competitive nature of the blitz days.

The LGFA is different.... There are a lot of well meaning and great people involved, but there are also a lot of people who seem just interested in a bit of reflected glory from the exploits of little Mary. Having 80% of club players waiting for an All-Ireland C competition to be finished is just crazy.
Counties, including Kilkenny (although I'm won't to tell The Cats how to run their affairs) should build from the bottom, lay the foundations, build up the player base, and eventually the elite will come to the top. Build from the bottom, build a strong club structure, and you'll eventually have a strong base for county teams.
My own county compounds the girls county competitions with development squads at U13 and U15 level, as well as the U14/U16 County competitions (I don't think they have a county U12 team.). These squads often run in parallel with club competitions, where girls might have a U14 Development on a Saturday morning and maybe an U14 championship the same evening or early the next day.

It's lunacy, and its the tail wagging the dog if you ask me.

joebloggs32 · 01-07-2020 8:53am

Looking in from the outside, the LGFA appear to have their priorities all wrong.

At adult level, they are fixated with filling Croke Park on All Ireland final day. However the strong arm tactics of forcing clubs all over the land to purchase tickets is desperate.
My own club has regularly hosted their Senior IC championship games. I've seen bigger crowds at a junior b hurling match. They need to try and grow attendance across the board, not for just the big day out.

Child protection, well thats how I see it anyway is lacking as they USE girls who are u18 to play adult grades. I've seen where a team will win a championship, and the 16 and 17 year old kids will go on the beer with the older ones. Why not leave adult grades to adults (even the GAA copped on to this). These talented young players are getting burned out as they play far too many grades while also studying for a leaving cert. I've seen this first hand with a very talented dual player from my club who has represented her counth at both codes from a young age.
If the lgfa barred minors from adult teams this year they could easily play an all Ireland, that's what I'd be looking to do.

All Irelands at u14 is a joke. Let kids be kids. LEAVE THEM WITH THEIR CLUBS. Have a development system in place with them maybe training a couple of ttimes a month during the summer holidays, but no more. Have 1 or 2 intercounty blitzes and leave it at that.(Surely they haven't stooped to organise u12 county teams??)

Finally, running intercounty teams at this age is just spending money I'm sure the association does not have.

greenspurs · 01-07-2020 8:55am

So, how do us "weaker counties" improve ?

Camogie , as is hurling for boys , is the dominant sport for girls in Kilkenny.
Small parishes have a limited pool of players to use.
There is only 4 adult Ladies GF clubs in Kilkenny, and 9 juvenile clubs !

Our LGF club is only 10 years old, and are trying to create a base for the future.
Having 5-6 games a season isn't enough to progress and improve. A player might have 12 competitive matches in their age group before they move on.
That's 36 competitive games before they turn to Minor, and now Minor has been removed !
How does that make sense?
To improve you need games. To improve you need to experience other environments/players/coaches. That's why the county Development squads are important.

On the camogie side, our Intermediates are flying, as are our Senior team, we have 4-5 players on the Kilkenny senior team.
So now the minors have to play with the Intermediates, thereby reducing playing time again, as there could be up to 40 players now on the Intermediate panel, this will impact on player development, and hinder progress.

I do not believe in the 'medals for everyone' way things are going/have gone, but It doesn't make sense.

greenspurs · 01-07-2020 9:03am

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Looking in from the outside, the LGFA appear to have their priorities all wrong.

At adult level, they are fixated with filling Croke Park on All Ireland final day. However the strong arm tactics of forcing clubs all over the land to purchase tickets is desperate.
My own club has regularly hosted their Senior IC championship games. I've seen bigger crowds at a junior b hurling match. They need to try and grow attendance across the board, not for just the big day out.

Child protection, well thats how I see it anyway is lacking as they USE girls who are u18 to play adult grades. I've seen where a team will win a championship, and the 16 and 17 year old kids will go on the beer with the older ones. Why not leave adult grades to adults (even the GAA copped on to this). These talented young players are getting burned out as they play far too many grades while also studying for a leaving cert. I've seen this first hand with a very talented dual player from my club who has represented her counth at both codes from a young age.
If the lgfa barred minors from adult teams this year they could easily play an all Ireland, that's what I'd be looking to do.

All Irelands at u14 is a joke. Let kids be kids. LEAVE THEM WITH THEIR CLUBS. Have a development system in place with them maybe training a couple of ttimes a month during the summer holidays, but no more. Have 1 or 2 intercounty blitzes and leave it at that.(Surely they haven't stooped to organise u12 county teams??)

Finally, running intercounty teams at this age is just spending money I'm sure the association does not have.

Some good points .
Attendances - yes, very poor. But you have to ask hurling/gaa supporters, why they don't go ?

Adult teams-
Its down to numbers. As I mentioned in my previous post, clubs are struggling to get girls off their butts/phones and onto pitches. It is very hard!
So, that's why clubs have to use players from under the age groups, its not ideal, but what can clubs do?

Dual player -
Is it not up to the player/parents to say " Hang on, you cant do everything" ??

Leave them with their clubs-
As I have mentioned also, maybe 12 games over the 2 years at each age group, is not enough game time!
That's also comes back to poor organisation from the Associations, and also down to low numbers of Clubs and players. (9 juvenile GF clubs in Kilkenny)

Money -
The U14 girls this year got a jumper, and free bus to the Leinster finals in Meath. The association is not too badly off id imagine.

joebloggs32 · 01-07-2020 9:36am

greenspurs wrote: »

Some good points .
Attendances - yes, very poor. But you have to ask hurling/gaa supporters, why they don't go ?

Adult teams-
Its down to numbers. As I mentioned in my previous post, clubs are struggling to get girls off their butts/phones and onto pitches. It is very hard!
So, that's why clubs have to use players from under the age groups, its not ideal, but what can clubs do?

Dual player -
Is it not up to the player/parents to say " Hang on, you cant do everything" ??

Leave them with their clubs-
As I have mentioned also, maybe 12 games over the 2 years at each age group, is not enough game time!
That's also comes back to poor organisation from the Associations, and also down to low numbers of Clubs and players. (9 juvenile GF clubs in Kilkenny)

Money -
The U14 girls this year got a jumper, and free bus to the Leinster finals in Meath. The association is not too badly off id imagine.

Girls playing Adult grades, to make up the numbers is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.
If I was 24 and I was sitting in the bench as 16 and 17 year olds were playing then id probably let fed up and may leave.. This argument of numbers was used in GAA also, but very few teams have stopped playing due to it.

Money, if Meath paid for one bus for the entire season for their intercouny u14 team they have done well. Are there no other expenses? Meals at away game, physio, kit etc

CouthyDown · 01-07-2020 9:44am

LGFA and camogie association at top level are so high and mighty and talk about inclusion yet at ground level 97% of clubs work on a 1 club model. I am involved in admin at club level and it drives me mad that at county level camogie and lgfa cannot speak to GAA in regards to pitches for championship matches. Last year we had minor football, senior camogie and u14lgfa sceuled for the same night with only 2 pitches. Everything is put to the clubs to sort at ground level.
As for county competitions, there are two many cups, shields, plated, tin cups or whatever played for.
Congrats you won an all ireland, who did you beat Dublin c team!!!!!!

mountgomery burns · 01-07-2020 10:08am

greenspurs wrote: »

So, how do us "weaker counties" improve ?

Camogie , as is hurling for boys , is the dominant sport for girls in Kilkenny.
Small parishes have a limited pool of players to use.
There is only 4 adult Ladies GF clubs in Kilkenny, and 9 juvenile clubs !

Our LGF club is only 10 years old, and are trying to create a base for the future.
Having 5-6 games a season isn't enough to progress and improve. A player might have 12 competitive matches in their age group before they move on.
That's 36 competitive games before they turn to Minor, and now Minor has been removed !
How does that make sense?
To improve you need games. To improve you need to experience other environments/players/coaches. That's why the county Development squads are important.

On the camogie side, our Intermediates are flying, as are our Senior team, we have 4-5 players on the Kilkenny senior team.
So now the minors have to play with the Intermediates, thereby reducing playing time again, as there could be up to 40 players now on the Intermediate panel, this will impact on player development, and hinder progress.

I do not believe in the 'medals for everyone' way things are going/have gone, but It doesn't make sense.

If there are 9 juvenile clubs would they not all play together in one league? And have a separate knockout competition, that would be 9 games guaranteed.

Given many will be playing across age groups that could be at least 20 games. I think that is part of the problem, there's too much of a crossover. I don't think Inter-County competitions foster development across a County. It sounds a bit like putting the cart before the horse.

Not saying it's not disappointing for some girls to miss the chance to play Minor inter county of course. But I'll be honest, I think the jury is still very much so out on whether we'll have inter-county within the GAA either this year.

greenspurs · 01-07-2020 10:30am

It comes down to the fact that its ladies/girls.
Its the same with soccer, they are an afterthought.
Wont ever change.

20x20 my ar$e ..

greenspurs · 01-07-2020 11:18am

CouthyDown wrote: »

LGFA and camogie association at top level are so high and mighty and talk about inclusion yet at ground level 97% of clubs work on a 1 club model. I am involved in admin at club level and it drives me mad that at county level camogie and lgfa cannot speak to GAA in regards to pitches for championship matches. Last year we had minor football, senior camogie and u14lgfa sceuled for the same night with only 2 pitches. Everything is put to the clubs to sort at ground level.
As for county competitions, there are two many cups, shields, plated, tin cups or whatever played for.
Congrats you won an all ireland, who did you beat Dublin c team!!!!!!

Cam Ass - (camogie association) :P
Yes, it seems that way, all talk, but little hands on help at club level.

The Gaa/Lgfa/CA , 3 different associations is annoying, but in fairness the GAA are very good with regards to allowing the other 2 use their facilities.

They really need to get more womens games on before Senior mens games though, it would help showcase the womens games to wider audiences that otherwise wouldn't watch them playing.

The Lost Sheep · 01-07-2020 6:02pm

greenspurs wrote: »

Disgraceful decision by the LGFA and Leinster GF council, And the Camogie association.
No All Ireland series for Minor/U16/U14/U12
A few provincial series , none in Leinster.

Makes a pure mockery of the "20x"20" and "If she cant see, she cant be it" ..
How is that decision supposed to keep girls interested? Its hard enough to get girls onto pitches , and now they decide this !! Pure fcuking stupidity.....
All the work that is being done by a few clubs in Kilkenny to keep GF going, and they get this decision from the legislators !

no all Ireland for one year isnt a problem. If not having these development games for one year means a lot of kids dont continue playing the sport then there is a lot more issues going on

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Far from a disgraceful decision IMHO.
Having being involved with Ladies football for many years, including being chair of our club and a regular attendee at County board meetings, there is too much county football anyway. The likes of the U14, It's a never ending story, ay round Robin, province, lose. That drop into B competition, lose that drip into C competition, ad infinitum, and all the while the girls are being pulled and dragged and kept away from their club teammates, who are waiting for the county 'stars' to finish and come back to them.
Too much emphasis on so called elite, at ages it 11 or 12,madness :these girls should have strong structures at club level and go to county at U18 or the very earliest U16.

Many of these competitions are driven by parents and misguided officials more than by players. In many cases, just so that can say we got to an All Ireland semifinal, (albeit a C semifinal versus a 'hurling county'

This petition is BS of the highest order

I would agree about far too much of a focus on so called "elite" development
Too much waiting for players on county squads happens in gaa. There needs to be more games played without players in county set ups at club level

greenspurs wrote: »

Im using Co. Kilkenny as my example -
"too much county football" ?- I would look at it the other way, theres not enough Club football being run to keep girls playing.
And isn't being picked for a county team what drives most people on? Isnt that the carrot that should be dangled in front of all players?
The U14 play 5-6 club games , a league format , that then runs into a Championship/Shield final. Maybe 8 games max.
With Kilkenny u14 gf team this year, they were playing a blitz style format in Kildare , with 2 more rounds to be played later (before Covid arrived).
That is hardly "too much county football".

"all the while the girls are being pulled and dragged and kept away from their club teammates, who are waiting for the county 'stars' to finish and come back to them" -
That's Bs. In Kilkenny, if the county teams are playing, theres no club games on, due to the amount of girls on each club team!
We have 9 U14 players this year (6 u14 + 3 U13 with the balance being pulled out of u12 to field teams!)

Granted , all the competitions, could be trimmed back a bit, with less Shield trophies etc, but there is not an excessive amount of games played up to U16s.

is being picked for inter county really what drives many playing sport?
As most know realistically they'll never be near an intercounty set up.

beggars_bush wrote: »

Focussing on elite level games for 14 year olds when most girls aged 14 don't exercise enough is farcical

Same for 17/18 year olds
Focus should be on games for all

you have a point but both can be managed. Play u14 club blitzes etc more often and have best players from across clubs play games on those days if possible...

beggars_bush · 03-07-2020 8:03am

greenspurs wrote: »

Focussing on elite level?
Who ? Me ? or the LGFA ? Camogie Association?
Well its hardly them , seeing the binned them..
ME - I think they are beneficial to the girls that do get picked for county teams -meeting new people, experience, respect etc. How can it be a bad thing?

Do you think the same for boys ?

Yes, I do actually
No need for county competitions until 17.

County boards need to provide more games for underage clubs and players.
It's why huge numbers drop out

This focus on the tiny number of players picked for county panels is ridiculous
When they'd be better off with their club or playing another sport alongside gaa

greenspurs · 03-07-2020 8:18am

im only speaking about whats happening here in Kilkenny.

Gaelic Football is an after thought for boys and girls, hurling is king.
Under age is where they develop as a player. 36 games as an juvenile player before they play minor is not enough really.
You can do all the training session you want, but you learn more in games, getting hit for real, scoring for real, winning, losing.

I don't understand why other posters dislike the idea of county development squads so much? The blitzes and finals that Kilkenny are involved in don't impede any club games.
The players learn while they are training 'with the county' , meet other players, make new friends, develop skills, learn new drills etc.
(drills are for spuds ??

)

No Camogie & GF All Ireland for Underage

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