If Work From Home becomes a thing...

Cyrus · 29-06-2020 11:02AM

beauf wrote: »

You have to make it work.

are you referring to someone taking time out to care for their own kids?

well of course if you cant afford it it isnt a choice. Its a binary thing, you can afford it or not, if you can then its an option.

gladerunner · 29-06-2020 11:07AM

Cyrus wrote: »

you literally proved my point yet you cant see it

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is no solution for the masses.

People work different patterns
People can ask parents to help
People can take unpaid leave
Partners can give up work for a time
You can use the creche full time or part time
You can work earlier or later

In the general scheme of things, it could be useful for many

to remove the commute time to lessen the need for childcare - be that full time or part time in the creche. A benefit, a small benefit.

Cyrus · 29-06-2020 11:11AM

gladerunner wrote: »

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but there is no solution for the masses.

People work different patterns
People can ask parents to help
People can take unpaid leave
Partners can give up work for a time
You can use the creche full time or part time
You can work earlier or later

In the general scheme of things, it could be useful for many to remove the commute time to lessen the need for childcare - be that full time or part time in the creche. A benefit, a small benefit.

of course there is, its paid childcare, its what most people use

its a small benefit now, i thought your original point was that lots of money could be saved on child care?

our creche (and many others i know of) dont offer part time discounts either, its all in or nothing.

gladerunner · 29-06-2020 11:13AM

Cyrus wrote: »

of course there is, its paid childcare, its what most people use

And if you and your family are happy with that, isn't that a marvellous solution for you.

Our childcare costs would be substantially reduced, but you know, that's just me.

shesty · 29-06-2020 11:26AM

gladerunner wrote: »

I just wish that some people could remember that we don't all work the same jobs.
When you mention childcare costs not reducing, you can only talk about yourself. You don't know how that system of play could work for others.
For me, I could work 7 - 2.30 ( 7hrs 30mins which is a full day for me.
School finishes at 2.30 and is local, so i could get even my parents to collect them and bring them home. Id be home for dinners, homework and all the usual madness.
In exchange my husband could do the get ready out the door breakfast madness. so yes, a much more reduced childcare situation.
Smaller children too could be minded by grandparents - say dropped up later and collected earlier. At least allowing people to make choices.

We have been caught in a form of madness prior to this pandemic.
Its time to get rid of the old way of thinking.
I see parents using breakfast clubs for children and tired children entering another creche facility after a tiring day at school.
All for what ? huge commutes, huge childcare costs and less time with children.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, I just want people to see the positives and that all people have different workable solutions given the choice.

Yes - the opposite side of that IS that people don't all work the same jobs. I think what was going on before was nuts. Kids in creches 10/11 hours of the day, from early morning to late evening. Madness. I specifically went for jobs in certain areas to cut my commute, and get good hours, just to avoid this. Husband does mornings, I do pick up at 4.30pm. Kids are maximum 8 hours, generally 7, between our minder/school. (2 are also at preschool and primary school).

But I did specifically say that younger kids have heaviest childcare costs. If you have all school-going kids, then yes, I am sure plenty of people could work something out. I also have a 2 year old, and it is impossible to work at home with him around, so his age group would still need full time care. At most, some people's commutes being gone would reduce the hours in childcare - mightn't benefit the monthly bill, but it would benefit the child. Grandparents are an alternative but not for everybody.

I have nothing against working from home by the way, I think it's great for everyone. I could do the school run at lunchtime, not have to worry about relying on others to do it. I just don't see that it would heavily reduce childcare costs for everyone, wouldn't be banking on that as a guaranteed saving. That's all.

gladerunner · 29-06-2020 11:31AM

shesty wrote: »

Yes - the opposite side of that IS that people don't all work the same jobs. I think what was going on before was nuts. Kids in creches 10/11 hours of the day, from early morning to late evening. Madness. I specifically went for jobs in certain areas to cut my commute, and get good hours, just to avoid this. Husband does mornings, I do pick up at 4.30pm. Kids are maximum 8 hours, generally 7, between our minder/school. (2 are also at preschool and primary school).

But I did specifically say that younger kids have heaviest childcare costs. If you have all school-going kids, then yes, I am sure plenty of people could work something out. I also have a 2 year old, and it is impossible to work at home with him around, so his age group would still need full time care. At most, some people's commutes being gone would reduce the hours in childcare - mightn't benefit the monthly bill, but it would benefit the child. Grandparents are an alternative but not for everybody.

I have nothing against working from home by the way, I think it's great for everyone. I could do the school run at lunchtime, not have to worry about relying on others to do it. I just don't see that it would heavily reduce childcare costs for everyone, wouldn't be banking on that as a guaranteed saving. That's all.

Yes, I know where you are coming from
I suppose if you removed the cost of the commute too ( petrol & parking etc ), you " might "have more money to off-set into childcare situations for smaller kids.

29-06-2020 06:25PM

Cyrus wrote: »

That’s a euphemistic way of saying why not rope in some free labour where available.

If you are happy going that way good for you but don’t present it as a solution for balance , it’s specific to you .

My wife is going to take a few years off work to look after the kids and we will see how it goes , should I present that as a solution to all for balance ?

Well among my friends and in my family grandparents doing the childcare would be the norm (always and long before covid) so it’s very common in my experience.

It’s one of the advantages of living close to or next door to home which is also very common among my friends with most either living next to home, building or planning to soon.

Your tone suggested you look down on those who get free child care from grandparents, a jealousy think maybe given two people can work and earn have low/no childcare costs.

Cyrus · 29-06-2020 07:08PM

Jaziel Unkempt Photographer wrote: »

Well among my friends and in my family grandparents doing the childcare would be the norm (always and long before covid) so it’s very common in my experience.

It’s one of the advantages of living close to or next door to home which is also very common among my friends with most either living next to home, building or planning to soon.

Your tone suggested you look down on those who get free child care from grandparents, a jealousy think maybe given two people can work and earn have low/no childcare costs.

I’m either jealous or look down nox which is it ?

I’ve heard all this before , you live at home your mammy looks after you you’ll build a house beside them and drink 20 pints on a weekend and they will look after your kids , that cover it?

Personally I wouldn’t expect my parents to subsidise me but you have no problem with it. That’s where we differ

gladerunner · 29-06-2020 07:47PM

Cyrus wrote: »

I’m either jealous or look down nox which is it ?

I’ve heard all this before , you live at home your mammy looks after you you’ll build a house beside them and drink 20 pints on a weekend and they will look after your kids , that cover it?

Personally I wouldn’t expect my parents to subsidise me but you have no problem with it. That’s where we differ

I think your kids are better off in crèche with the type of personality you have on display here . Always on the attack, always perceiving people have it so much better off than you.
Maybe if you spent less time online you could condense your own working hours a day and lessen your childcare expenses that way.
No problems kid, just solutions.

Cyrus · 29-06-2020 07:50PM

gladerunner wrote: »

I think your kids are better off in crèche with the type of personality you have on display here . Always on the attack, always perceiving people have it so much better off than you.
Maybe if you spent less time online you could condense your own working hours a day and lessen your childcare expenses that way.
No problems kid, just solutions.

I genuinely think you have some sort of comprehension issue , I’m sure I never said anyone had anything better than me.

If you think lumbering grandparents with kids is having it better than someone or living at home is says more about you than me .

gladerunner · 29-06-2020 07:59PM

Cyrus wrote: »

I genuinely think you have some sort of comprehension issue , I’m sure I never said anyone had anything better than me.

If you think lumbering grandparents with kids is having it better than someone or living at home is says more about you than me .

Must be the eloquent way you sound out your arguments that has me all confused

beauf · 29-06-2020 08:04PM

I know one person using an au-pair. Which used to be very common, but not in recent years. At least I've not heard it much lately. Anyway I posted the stats about which is more popular. So it's pretty clear.

limnam · 29-06-2020 08:07PM

beauf wrote: »

I know one person using an au-pair. Which used to be very common, but not in recent years. At least I've not heard it much lately. Anyway I posted the stats about which is more popular. So it's pretty clear.

I think there was a court case were one sued for crazy amounts of money may have put the fear into some people about bringing them in.

29-06-2020 08:21PM

Cyrus wrote: »

I’m either jealous or look down nox which is it ?

I’ve heard all this before , you live at home your mammy looks after you you’ll build a house beside them and drink 20 pints on a weekend and they will look after your kids , that cover it?

Personally I wouldn’t expect my parents to subsidise me but you have no problem with it. That’s where we differ

Giving the impression of looking down on but jealous at the back of it all.

It’s not subsidising anyone, In most cares grandparents are over the moon to have be minding their grand children and spending time with them. I bet all the grandparents seeing their grandchildren on skype from Oz or elsewhere would give anything to have them living next door and be getting to spend time with them every day.

It’s how childcare was always done in my parents generation and it’s still how many still do it nowadays as why waste a load of money on childcare if it’s not necessary.

Cyrus · 29-06-2020 09:41PM

Jaziel Unkempt Photographer wrote: »

Giving the impression of looking down on but jealous at the back of it all.

It’s not subsidising anyone, In most cares grandparents are over the moon to have be minding their grand children and spending time with them. I bet all the grandparents seeing their grandchildren on skype from Oz or elsewhere would give anything to have them living next door and be getting to spend time with them every day.

It’s how childcare was always done in my parents generation and it’s still how many still do it nowadays as why waste a load of money on childcare if it’s not necessary.

If you can take one thing from any of our interactions please take this , I don’t envy you one bit. And I have no doubt the feeling is mutual .

Cyrus · 29-06-2020 09:43PM

gladerunner wrote: »

Must be the eloquent way you sound out your arguments that has me all confused

It must be.

I’ll ask you again, where did I say anyone had it better than me?

cloudatlas · 04-07-2020 03:18PM

Mr.S wrote: »

We did this before COVID

But in all seriousness, yes the gradual return to the office will tedious for smaller offices. I am sure, if cases remain low, that restrictions like mask wearing will be eased and 1-2m distances between desks will be removed.

A lot of places that have opened back up have had to lock down again. I don't think we are going back in there.

I need to renew my union membership on Monday as my workplace keeps on sending out emails explaining their financial situation and are manoeuvring into place to look at voluntary redundancy.

KyussB · 08-07-2020 02:19PM

Inside the Invasive, Secretive “Bossware” Tracking Workers
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/06/inside-invasive-secretive-bossware-tracking-workers

08-07-2020 02:59PM

Jaziel Unkempt Photographer wrote: »

Giving the impression of looking down on but jealous at the back of it all.

It’s not subsidising anyone, In most cares grandparents are over the moon to have be minding their grand children and spending time with them. I bet all the grandparents seeing their grandchildren on skype from Oz or elsewhere would give anything to have them living next door and be getting to spend time with them every day.

It’s how childcare was always done in my parents generation and it’s still how many still do it nowadays as why waste a load of money on childcare if it’s not necessary.

What a sweeping statement, in my opinion, asking grandparents to take on full time childcare of children is taking advantage even if the are willing do it, a few hours here and there or a day or two a week is different, even asking them to pick them up evey day from school is a big ask.

Grandparents providing help and support is one thing but full-time child care no.

08-07-2020 11:03PM

Jaziel Unkempt Photographer wrote: »

Giving the impression of looking down on but jealous at the back of it all.

It’s not subsidising anyone, In most cares grandparents are over the moon to have be minding their grand children and spending time with them. I bet all the grandparents seeing their grandchildren on skype from Oz or elsewhere would give anything to have them living next door and be getting to spend time with them every day.

It’s how childcare was always done in my parents generation and it’s still how many still do it nowadays as why waste a load of money on childcare if it’s not necessary.

I doubt that's the case, id say there are far more grandparents who are doing it but would probably prefer not to be.

08-07-2020 11:17PM

mariaalice wrote: »

What a sweeping statement, in my opinion, asking grandparents to take on full time childcare of children is taking advantage even if the are willing do it, a few hours here and there or a day or two a week is different, even asking them to pick them up evey day from school is a big ask.

Grandparents providing help and support is one thing but full-time child care no.

Most grandparents ask before they are asked. In my family and close group of friends the majority of kids are minded full time or close to full time by grandparents (or shared among the two sets of grandparents) and I can guarantee you it is not seen by anyone as taking advantage the grandparents are over the moon to be doing it.

I know of one case with a relation where there was almost a falling out over it as the couple didn’t want the grandparents having to do the childcare but this highly offended the grandparents and to keep the peace they had to let the grandparents do the full time childcare.

Also how you could see full time pick ups from school as a big ask is beyond me, it’s an absolute ideal scenario to have grandparents do this as they see their grandkids for a few hours per day as they love to do and save a large amount of money for the parents. As I said I bet many grandparents with grandkids on the other side of the world would give anything to be doing childcare and pick ups and seeing their grandkids everyday.

Electric Sheep · 08-07-2020 11:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt that's the case, id say there are far more grandparents who are doing it but would probably prefer not to be.

I agree, I am acquainted with a few of these. Worn out and fed up, but feel obliged to help out. Meanwhile the son or son in law spends the price of a weeks daycare in the pub every weekend.

JoeA3 · 09-07-2020 12:15AM

Expecting your retired (approaching elderly) parents to be delighted to be full time carers for your offspring is beyond delusional. It's taking the fcuking piss tbh. They did their time with all that. A few hours here and there yes. Full time? No way, I wouldn't dream of asking. They may "offer" but to accept that offer as the norm is beyond the realms of taking them for granted imo.

Cyrus · 09-07-2020 07:24AM

I’ll be interested to see how much nox supports this grandparents doing full time childcare in 30 years time when his 2 or 3 kids have a few of their own

09-07-2020 07:28AM

Nox, have you never heard the relief of parents having their children rared or knowing that they won't be having more children?

Eg if a close friend asks a woman if she plans any more children, "no way! ",or "three's enough! " is often the relieved response.

Then comes along the grandchildren to be dumped on them.

Imagine the sense of responsibility placed on aging grandparents especially in the summer time trying to keep energetic young kids from exploring too far and getting hurt. Especially on farms and near busy roads.

09-07-2020 07:30AM

Cyrus wrote: »

I’ll be interested to see how much nox supports this grandparents doing full time childcare in 30 years time when his 2 or 3 kids have a few of their own

Nox won't be minding them, he'll be safely out of the way out on the farm tipping about.

It'll be the wife left with the grandchildren.

09-07-2020 10:49AM

JoeA3 wrote: »

Expecting your retired (approaching elderly) parents to be delighted to be full time carers for your offspring is beyond delusional. It's taking the fcuking piss tbh. They did their time with all that. A few hours here and there yes. Full time? No way, I wouldn't dream of asking. They may "offer" but to accept that offer as the norm is beyond the realms of taking them for granted imo.

As I said think what you want but it’s the norm among my family and friends/neighbours etc and it is not looked on in anyway whatsoever the way you are.

Cyrus wrote: »

I’ll be interested to see how much nox supports this grandparents doing full time childcare in 30 years time when his 2 or 3 kids have a few of their own

No problem.

salonfire wrote: »

Imagine the sense of responsibility placed on aging grandparents especially in the summer time trying to keep energetic young kids from exploring too far and getting hurt. Especially on farms and near busy roads.

You are not looking at this like many or most would, the grandparents love to have the grandkids and if they don’t you can be sure they would say it. My grandparents minded me, collected me from school when I started etc that’s just how it was and is still done for most people I know.

Also it’s not just that they like having the grandkids they can see the thousands of euro it’s saves their children in an expensive time of life and helps them have a more comfortable life financially into the future.

salonfire wrote: »

Nox won't be minding them, he'll be safely out of the way out on the farm tipping about.

It'll be the wife left with the grandchildren.

I spent most of the first 4 years of my life going around on the farm with my grandad (I was able to steer the tractor confidently before I started school), the shape of my arse was indented in the tractor I spent so long up there. I’d intend doing the same with a child of my own or a grandchild. Obviously it can’t be all day when more dangerous stuff is going on but just going around herding, doing bit s etc when them in the jeep or tractor work where they would happy sit for hours (and nowadays tractors have proper second seats etc so not like when I was a child sitting on a mudguard).

fret_wimp2 · 09-07-2020 11:23AM

Jaziel Unkempt Photographer wrote: »

As I said think what you want but it’s the norm among my family and friends/neighbours etc and it is not looked on in anyway whatsoever the way you are.

No problem.

You are not looking at this like many or most would, the grandparents love to have the grandkids and if they don’t you can be sure they would say it. My grandparents minded me, collected me from school when I started etc that’s just how it was and is still done for most people I know.

Also it’s not just that they like having the grandkids they can see the thousands of euro it’s saves their children in an expensive time of life and helps them have a more comfortable life financially into the future.

I spent most of the first 4 years of my life going around on the farm with my granddad (I was able to steer the tractor confidently before I started school), the shape of my arse was indented in the tractor I spent so long up there. I’d intend doing the same with a child of my own or a grandchild. Obviously it can’t be all day when more dangerous stuff is going on but just going around herding, doing bit s etc when them in the jeep or tractor work where they would happy sit for hours (and nowadays tractors have proper second seats etc so not like when I was a child sitting on a mudguard).

Those who do call on grandparents dont see it as an issue and others do. its an attitude thing.
Its similar with deposits for houses, some will take any money offered, some think their parents deserve to use the money to enjoy their retirement.

I agree with Cyrus on this.
My parents would mind the kids if i asked, but i also know that they are beyond tired after any weekend we call over, so I simply wont ask. They are too good to say no, but they done their time and they are now also not physically as capable as they were. Ill read between the lines and use my better judgement.

Noxx001 has some lovely memories of childhood with their grandparents, a beautiful thing to have, and a nice thing to want the kids to share in, as long as its tempered by good judgement to read between the lines and realize that parents hate saying no to their kids and grand kids, even if its in everyone's best interest

Mostly unfortunately its a financial decision, grandparents = free childcare, end of thought process.

BrianD3 · 10-07-2020 09:24PM

Well, work from home certainly hasn't "become a thing" in my public sector workplace. I was ordered to get back to the office, I questioned why when government guidelines and HR policy was for people to WFH where possible. Told it wasn't possible and that I wasn't doing my job while I was WFH for the last few months. I know that I have been working just as well if not better than I did in the office pre Covid-19. But what's the point in arguing with some so called manager who has already seemingly made up his mind that you are a dosser.

I'm not the only "dosser" of course. Every other staff member in my department has gotten similar treatment/accusations. I was the last one to be targeted, the ordering in of more junior and shorter serving staff started a few weeks ago. Again I know that these people had being working very well from home, working many hours of unpaid overtime and doing great work.

I would be annoyed no matter what my personal circumstances were but what makes me fume is, I live with and am a family carer for a vulnerable person. First of all, if I bring Covid home, my relative is in serious danger. Secondly, care supports have been reduced due to Covid, e.g. no home help and HSE daycare centre is closed indefinitely. Thirdly, I have a 3.5 hour round trip to the office.

To sum up, I could manage the commute and the caring pre Covid, I can't now.

Good thing I have accumulated a large amount of F*ck You money, I never thought I'd have to deploy it though. So much for the public sector being family friendly and setting an example.

Anyone else experience similar? Great way to demotivate your staff.

Technocentral · 11-07-2020 12:29AM

Sorry to hear that, bizzare, I'm Public Sector too, just a few days a week in office for a few hours each day, it should be the same for every department, the virus is with us until a cure or vaccine, maybe a year or two who knows, only essential workers should be in at all never mind full-time.

If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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