FF/FG/Green Next Government

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 02:50PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Which would have included talking to SF.
So in some instances the ideology was immovable and dogmatically insisted upon.

If they had talked and been unable to reach an agreement fair enough. But refusing outright to enter negotiations combined with guff about SF being 'unfit' was dogmatic ideology at its worst and an insult to the mandate which, like it or not, SF received from the electorate.

FF and FG do not get to decide who is and is not 'fit' - especially when they seek the support of the likes of Lowry. If they can accept Lowry has a mandate- they can accept SF have one. And going on number of seats a stronger one than FG.

And once again before the 'shinnerbot' BS starts I did not give SF even a preference vote. I did give the Greens one and even though not elected that candidate spoke out against the PfG.

One of Ireland many issue is the number of independents candidate which restrict parties getting a majority

FF and FG do have the right to pick who they want or do not want to partner with. Same as SF had the option to approach other parties to join with them. If SF has the Greens on board then they would have shut down the current alliance, the Greens went to SF first but got nowhere

FG came out and said they would go into opposition, they all waited then. Nothing happened

At some stage the politicians had to pull some sort of government together or we would end up with a situation like Northern Ireland and no government for 3 years

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:54PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Depends on how important you think climate change is versus housing.

Housing much more important to the electorate.
Healthcare also.

Cycling lanes only benefit bare minimum of people. More public transport infrastructure would be more beneficial to get people out of their cars.

People travelling from Meath, Kildare, wicklow to dublin for work wont be cycling.
People in rural Ireland travelling to supervalu for the weekend shop wont be cycling

It's a pet project to bring greens on board and keep them distracted. Leo and Micheal run the country.

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 02:55PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Housing much more important to the electorate.
Healthcare also.

Cycling lanes only benefit bare minimum of people. More public transport infrastructure would be more beneficial to get people out of their cars.

People travelling from Meath, Kildare, wicklow to dublin for work wont be cycling.
People in rural Ireland travelling to supervalu for the weekend shop wont be cycling

It's a pet project to bring greens on board and keep them distracted. Leo and Micheal run the country.

Sure. But the Greens will get some policies implemented while FG and FF do the heavy lifting. That's politics for you.

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 02:58PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Oh ok. Can you link me to the mention of Ireland 2040 in the programme. Thanks

Google search for Programme for Government 2020. Easy as that.

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 02:58PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sure. But the Greens will get some policies implemented while FG and FF do the heavy lifting. That's politics for you.

So you do agree with my statement about cycling infrastructure?

It's a waste of money that could be spent on housing or healthcare or welfare or business support or renewable energy or education etc

Plenty of other options to spend 1.8 billion

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 03:01PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

So you do agree with my statement about cycling infrastructure

It's not important. Any program for government today will be full of wishful thinking. There's an economic clusterfúck coming down the tracks.

StackSteevens · 27-06-2020 03:01PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

FF and FG do not get to decide who is and is not 'fit' - especially when they seek the support of the likes of Lowry. If they can accept Lowry has a mandate- they can accept SF have one. And going on number of seats a stronger one than FG.

Have you been following the news? Because - and I hope this won't come as a major shock to you - that's exactly what FF and FG have just done. And the world didn't come to a shuddering end - not yet anyhow.

So perhaps you need to reassess how democracy works in the real world and put those textbooks away.

LawBoy2018 · 27-06-2020 03:02PM

Darragh O'Brien & Michael McGrath en route to get their assignments! Who will be next...

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 03:03PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

So you do agree with my statement about cycling infrastructure?

It's a waste of money that could be spent on housing or healthcare or welfare or business support or renewable energy or education etc

Plenty of other options to spend 1.8 billion

It's also for walking and pedestrian infrastructure. Cycling and walking is very positive for health and wellbeing.

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 03:03PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's not important. Any program for government today will be full of wishful thinking. There's an economic clusterfúck coming down the tracks.

It is important. You asked if housing is more important than climate change.

Now you've completely dismissed both my point and your own!

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 03:04PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

It is important. You asked if housing is more important than climate change.

Now you've completely dismissed both my point and your own!

No, I didn't ask that. Read the post again.

robwen · 27-06-2020 03:04PM

If FF are taking the housing & health portfolios you kinda have to say fair play to Martin he's putting his money where his mouth is, it's a fair gamble on the future of FF

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 03:04PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

It's also for walking and pedestrian infrastructure. Cycling and walking is very positive for health and wellbeing.

Definitely. I agree. If you wanted to go for a walk right now do you need infrastructure put in?

1.8 billion euro worth

The_Brood · 27-06-2020 03:04PM

I just want to know why did voters decide they hate working class people? Why does Irish society have so much against people working every day of their lives to try and make a living but are not on google salaries?

Ireland has proven itslef as one of the most corporate capitalist friendly socieites on earth.

Professor Moriarty · 27-06-2020 03:05PM

robwen wrote: »

If FF are taking the housing & health portfolios you kinda have to say fair play to Martin he's putting his money where his mouth is, it's a fair gamble on the future of FF

Poisoned chalices, especially Health during a pandemic.

LawBoy2018 · 27-06-2020 03:05PM

robwen wrote: »

If FF are taking the housing & health portfolios you kinda have to say fair play to Martin he's putting his money where his mouth is, it's a fair gamble on the future of FF

If it's true, then he made the ultimate blunder and solidified FF's doom imo.

27-06-2020 03:07PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

So you do agree with my statement about cycling infrastructure?

It's a waste of money that could be spent on housing or healthcare or welfare or business support or renewable energy or education etc

Plenty of other options to spend 1.8 billion

More people cycle to work in Dublin than use DART, Luas and suburban rail combined. And that's with fairly appalling levels of provision to date.

We need to provide facilities so that cycling is safe for everyone. This will have considerable public health benefits, transport chaos benefits and environmental benefits.

LawBoy2018 · 27-06-2020 03:07PM

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Darragh O'Brien & Michael McGrath en route to get their assignments! Who will be next...

Norma got the call up! 3 to go...

Bannasidhe · 27-06-2020 03:07PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One of Ireland many issue is the number of independents candidate which restrict parties getting a majority

FF and FG do have the right to pick who they want or do not want to partner with. Same as SF had the option to approach other parties to join with them. If SF has the Greens on board then they would have shut down the current alliance, the Greens went to SF first but got nowhere

FG came out and said they would go into opposition, they all waited then. Nothing happened

At some stage the politicians had to pull some sort of government together or we would end up with a situation like Northern Ireland and no government for 3 years

I would tend to agree about the Independents.

I disagree that either FG or FF have the right to declare another party as 'unfit' to be in govt. Disagree with their policies, attack their polices absolutely.
But to place themselves as judges based on a long over conflict (esp given their own histories) is reprehensible. If the DUP can work with SF so the least FF and FG could do is talk to them.
I agree FG and SF are incompatible btw. But a deal between FF and SF would have been possible.
We'll never know though as FF didn't respect the mandate SF received.

I fully expect that in years to come SF will replace FF, much as FF once replaced SF.
FF lost their way when Haughey came to power and openly became a party of dodgy deals and backhanders.
SF will take the place occupied by the Lemass era FF on the centre left but without the pro/anti treaty baggage that should have long been ditched.
And I still won't be voting SF

Truthvader · 27-06-2020 03:08PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

More people cycle to work in Dublin than use DART, Luas and suburban rail combined. And that's with fairly appalling levels of provision to date.

We need to provide facilities so that cycling is safe for everyone. This will have considerable public health benefits, transport chaos benefits and environmental benefits.

I do not want to cycle

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 03:10PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Definitely. I agree. If you wanted to go for a walk right now do you need infrastructure put in?

1.8 billion euro worth

In some places yes we do. And we certainly need cycling infrastructure in many places. There is significant demand for such infrastructure but it's pretty crap right now.

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 03:11PM

Truthvader wrote: »

I do not want to cycle

Pity for you that government don't tailor public policy just to what you want.

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 03:12PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

More people cycle to work in Dublin than use DART, Luas and suburban rail combined. And that's with fairly appalling levels of provision to date.

We need to provide facilities so that cycling is safe for everyone. This will have considerable public health benefits, transport chaos benefits and environmental benefits.

For sure. More public transport for cities.

How many hundred thousand people commute daily from Kildare, Meath ,Wicklow? They wont be cycling to work in the capital.
How about the rest of the country?
A cycle lane from Ennis to Eyre square maybe or from Castlebar into Galway city centre.
Any number of examples that spending 1.8 billion on cycling infrastructure wont fix.

An absolute cluster fûck waste of taxpayers money just to get the greens on board .
1 million euro a day!

is_that_so · 27-06-2020 03:15PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

More people cycle to work in Dublin than use DART, Luas and suburban rail combined. And that's with fairly appalling levels of provision to date.

We need to provide facilities so that cycling is safe for everyone. This will have considerable public health benefits, transport chaos benefits and environmental benefits.

Well the DART alone was about 90K passengers a day in 2018 so please provide a link to this ludicrous looking claim. 90K cyclists would leave no room for anyone else!

namloc1980 · 27-06-2020 03:15PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

For sure. More public transport for cities.

How many hundred thousand people commute daily from Kildare, Meath ,Wicklow? They wont be cycling to work in the capital.
How about the rest of the country?
A cycle lane from Ennis to Eyre square maybe or from Castlebar into Galway city centre.
Any number of examples that spending 1.8 billion on cycling infrastructure wont fix.

An absolute cluster fûck waste of taxpayers money just to get the greens on board .
1 million euro a day!

You'd swear that this expenditure on cycling and pedestrian infrastructure was the sum total of anticipated transport expenditure. Don't worry, roads and motorised public transport will still get the overwhelming bulk of the expenditure.

Mortelaro · 27-06-2020 03:16PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Imagine using Mort's phrase as an excuse for not paying your mortgage.

The judge:

You don't adhere to a contract, you have legal consequences
However even though you have a zealousy for devaluing the word lie,I hope you are not calling people who lose their houses in this way liars

LawBoy2018 · 27-06-2020 03:16PM

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Norma got the call up! 3 to go...

Dara Calleary next.. 2 to go!

Shefwedfan · 27-06-2020 03:18PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I would tend to agree about the Independents.

I disagree that either FG or FF have the right to declare another party as 'unfit' to be in govt. Disagree with their policies, attack their polices absolutely.
But to place themselves as judges based on a long over conflict (esp given their own histories) is reprehensible. If the DUP can work with SF so the least FF and FG could do is talk to them.
I agree FG and SF are incompatible btw. But a deal between FF and SF would have been possible.
We'll never know though as FF didn't respect the mandate SF received.

I fully expect that in years to come SF will replace FF, much as FF once replaced SF.
FF lost their way when Haughey came to power and openly became a party of dodgy deals and backhanders.
SF will take the place occupied by the Lemass era FF on the centre left but without the pro/anti treaty baggage that should have long been ditched.
And I still won't be voting SF

The DUP don’t work with SF, they have done nothing to improve the quality of life in the North. They shut down the government for 3 years while they bickered. The SF fans here even struggle to come up with development SF have done in north with DUP.
FF and FG know that if they joined with SF their core voters would walk away, I would not support FF again if they joined with SF

It might come as a surprise but a huge part of this country despise SF and everything about them. Those people are also FF and FG voters

I said it here multiple times. If this failed and MM brought SF to the table FF would be dead in the morning. Some voters might stay but I would expect 90+% would leave and move to alternative

Are you saying we should shut down those voices because of 24% of a vote in an election?

Bishop of hope · 27-06-2020 03:19PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Pity for you that government don't tailor public policy just to what you want.

Why not, more ev charging points and even ev driving lanes maybe, might encourage more people, to buy ev's.
Public transport capacity has been at least halved if not more, who knows, how long that will last.
Perhaps a rejig of where the money is spent needs, to be on the cards.

ExMachina1000 · 27-06-2020 03:21PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

You'd swear that this expenditure on cycling and pedestrian infrastructure was the sum total of anticipated transport expenditure. Don't worry, roads and motorised public transport will still get the overwhelming bulk of the expenditure.

And so they should. Roads need to be maintained and upgraded consistently.

1.8 billion spent on cycling infrastructure has no major impact. Its money down the drain.
Money that could be spent elsewhere. Money that we as a nation dont have.

People will still need to travel from the commuter counties. This goes for all of our cities. Cycling 30km to work and home again on a track beside the motorway. Stop the lights. Can you imagine it. It's not real but if the idea is to get people out of their cars then isn't that where the money should be spent?

FF/FG/Green Next Government

Comments