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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #2402
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    Yes, this is one of the more plausible theories. Kate had talked about how Madeline was a difficult child and the lady staying above had reported the calling out for the father. I think there was also accusations of falsifying signatures in the Crech services. From memory I think this is exported in the Maddie podcast done by 9.au if you haven't listened to it it's excellent. Would certainly make it easier to move the body as some McCann defenders like to obsess about. Also they questioned Kate alone believing they would get her to confess. So seems they shared your logic.

    Independent witnesses including other holidaymakers, parents and hotel staff all corroborated the fact that Madeleine was collected from kids club at 6pm on the day she disappeared.
    Earlier that day she had been playing at the pool with the other Tapas kids, and that’s when the very last picture of her smiling in the sun hat was taken.
    So she was without doubt alive and well, seen by independent witnesses all day on the day she disappeared up till 6pm.

    Kate saying she was a difficult child, which most kids that age are btw, does not mean she murdered her own daughter.


  • #2403
    flasher0030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    limnam wrote: »
    Does your partner delete them at the same time?

    Do you delete call history to save space?

    Does your partner do it at the same time?

    The link that was provided in a few posts previously was written by Paulo Reiz - journalist background. This is what he (apparently) said about the McCanns.

    "The McCann couple may return to Portugal, next May. After insulting the country, the people, the institutions, the legal system and the police, these careless parents think that Portuguese people just forget all of those insults. I hope Gerry and Kate go to Praia da Luz. I'm sure local population will prepare a nice welcome for them".

    So I think anything he produces on the case can be taken with a pinch of salt. And view as biased.
    It's 13 years ago. If the Portugues police wanted to find a culprit, and focused on the parents, they would leave no stone unturned with the phones in the subsequent years. Anything deleted from the phones is easily retrieveable. And obviously they concluded that the phones threw up nothing.


  • #2404
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Regarding phone calls and messages on a mobile in 2007:

    This was the year that the apple iphone was launched, very expensive. As doctors I am guessing they may have had Blackberries - because of professional requirements (wild guess) - Kate McCann was a GP and may have received messages about patients, etc (another guess but a reasonable one)

    An English couple, abroad, at a time when they were still sending bills on paper. Roaming charges would apply, the service provider will have charged for every call and message, sent and received - regardless of whether they were later deleted from the actual devices.

    Many a conviction has been secured by mobile phone data: it does not "disappear" - this query could have been (must have been) cleared up easily.

    Edited to add: if Kate saw that she had had a call from an Unknown number, she might have said "****, I hope that wasn't a kidnapper checking on our whereabouts!" - and saved that number for the record, just in case.


  • #2405
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    flasher0030 wrote: »
    The link that was provided in a few posts previously was written by Paulo Reiz - journalist background. This is what he (apparently) said about the McCanns.

    "The McCann couple may return to Portugal, next May. After insulting the country, the people, the institutions, the legal system and the police, these careless parents think that Portuguese people just forget all of those insults. I hope Gerry and Kate go to Praia da Luz. I'm sure local population will prepare a nice welcome for them".

    So I think anything he produces on the case can be taken with a pinch of salt. And view as biased.
    It's 13 years ago. If the Portugues police wanted to find a culprit, and focused on the parents, they would leave no stone unturned with the phones in the subsequent years. Anything deleted from the phones is easily retrieveable. And obviously they concluded that the phones threw up nothing.

    Not sure how it's relevant.

    If both deleted selected calls or texts from their phones at the same time.

    That's odd.

    Me questioning if the posters partner would do it at the same time and clear calls to "free space" has nothing to do with what you posted.

    I don't know much about the phone issue.

    But if both of them deleted selected calls and texts from their phones. It's very strange behavior.

    While log retention is common place now for carriers. I'm not sure what it was then as a lot of the rules came in around 2008

    Regardless of why they did it. It's another line of very weird behavior from them if thats what they did.


  • #2406
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    No they were'nt wiped. Some messages were deleted which can be normal and to do with space. However, the call history on both phones were also selectively deleted.

    This is the problem when things happen so fast. You attempted to be clever but your haste in carrying out the task you in fact do something even more incriminating. We will never know who the calls were to. We just know that the McCanns didn't want anyone to find out about them. We know that they thought they were incriminating.

    No, that's what you think. You have no idea what they were thinking.


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  • #2407
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    That's a lovely rebuttal dark crystal.

    Perhaps you can layout as many scenarios as you like which might explain lawful reasons why the McCanns might of concealed calls by selectively deleting them from their phones and why Gerry lied about it.


  • #2408
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    That's a lovely rebuttal dark crystal.

    Perhaps you can layout as many scenarios as you like which might explain lawful reasons why the McCanns might of concealed calls by selectively deleting them from their phones and why Gerry lied about it.

    Or maybe they were freeing up space on their phones for incoming calls and texts relating to their missing daughter, phones back then had a much more limited capacity. I remember if your inbox was full you wouldn’t get any more messages until you cleared space.
    Maybe they deleted the unimportant ones to make more room.

    There doesn’t have to be a sinister conspiracy in everything.


  • #2409
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Clearing call history has no impact on incoming calls or texts.

    Even if it did. If Gerry lied about it.

    Why lie.


  • #2410
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Or maybe they were freeing up space on their phones for incoming calls and texts relating to their missing daughter, phones back then had a much more limited capacity. I remember if your inbox was full you wouldn’t get any more messages until you cleared space.
    Maybe they deleted the unimportant ones to make more room.

    As has been covered a number of times in the last two pages AND in the PJ files.

    1) Deleting messages to save space makes sense. Selectively deleting phone calls doesn't free up any space and as a result makes no sense.

    2) Gerry lied when he said that his phone could only take 10 calls it actually had a log of 17 when he said it.

    Now that his has been again corrected. Would you like to try to answer the question again. Please provide as many lawful reasons as you like why the McCanns would conceal calls by selectively deleting them.


  • #2411
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    As has been covered a number of times in the last two pages AND in the PJ files.

    1) Deleting messages to save space makes sense. Selectively deleting phone calls doesn't free up any space and as a result makes no sense.

    2) Gerry lied when he said that his phone could only take 10 calls it actually had a log of 17 when he said it.

    Now that his has been again corrected. Would you like to try to answer the question again. Please provide as many lawful reasons as you like why the McCanns would conceal calls by selectively deleting them.

    This is an aspect of the case where I'd expect even the most fanatical of McCann "supporters" to say without much hesitation. It was very un-usual behavior.

    It doesn't make you a murderer. But it's very very suspicious behavior. Anyone argues that. It's merely for the sake of arguments sake.


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  • #2412
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Don't know if it has been mentioned but in 2007 the papers (well some of them) were full of accusations of phone tapping by News International into all sorts. 7/7 victims, Millie Dowler' s parents etc. Really low stuff.
    It would've been good advice at the time to delete any info the press might be able to hack. It wasn't until the Levinson Enquiry in '11 that the public got a clearer picture into how they did the hacking and the extent of it.


  • #2413
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    humberklog wrote: »
    Don't know if it has been mentioned but in 2007 the papers (well some of them) were full of accusations of phone tapping by News International into all sorts. 7/7 victims, Millie Dowler' s parents etc. Really low stuff.
    It would've been good advice at the time to delete any info the press might be able to hack. It wasn't until the Levinson Enquiry in '11 that the public got a clearer picture into how they did the hacking and the extent of it.

    Why lie then?

    Just say you're paranoid of phone hackers.....


  • #2414
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    That's a lovely rebuttal dark crystal.

    Perhaps you can layout as many scenarios as you like which might explain lawful reasons why the McCanns might of concealed calls by selectively deleting them from their phones and why Gerry lied about it.

    Lawful reasons? Like clearing space on your phone? Why do you automatically leap to concealment? That is conspiracy talk.

    How did that link from the PJ files come about? It's worded very oddly, accusingly. The report mentions the 'busty' aerobics instructor who 'is not the sort of woman men would wish see to leave too quickly', how 'they were so 'into each other' that they didn't want to be disturbed while sardine munching'. It's like reading The Sun and not a police report at all.

    Then, I look to see which officer made this rather salacious report - Paulo Reis. I look him up and - surprise, surprise, he is not a police investigator at all, but a 'freelance journalist' who has written an anti-McCann book just like our other old pal, Amoral.

    This isn't a judicial forensic phone log report at all. It's a Portuguese hack piece! :pac:


  • #2415
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Lawful reasons? Like clearing space on your phone? Why do you automatically leap to concealment? That is conspiracy talk.

    Why keep bringing this up?

    Clearing selective call history has no impact on space.

    Why lie about it?


  • #2416
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    limnam wrote: »
    Why keep bringing this up?

    Clearing selective call history has no impact on space.

    Why lie about it?

    You know, he might have had more on his mind than actually counting the messages required to fill his inbox. Ten or a dozen or twenty....dammit, his daughter is missing!! Old messages from work or friends at home? When there might be an incoming ransom demand? Delete the lot! Wife do the same! There might be a call from police finding a body....keep the phones open!

    I can so see myself thinking that way, if it were me and my kid in a foreign country in an emergency.


  • #2417
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Day Lewin wrote: »
    You know, he might have had more on his mind than actually counting the messages required to fill his inbox. Ten or a dozen or twenty....dammit, his daughter is missing!! Old messages from work or friends at home? When there might be an incoming ransom demand? Delete the lot! Wife do the same! There might be a call from police finding a body....keep the phones open!

    I can so see myself thinking that way, if it were me and my kid in a foreign country in an emergency.

    But he gave a specific number.

    Why not say i don't know.

    Messages I can understand.

    Why selective call history and why lie about it ?

    Why did they both choose selective call history to remove?

    No space will be gained.

    Why be so selective on both phones RE: call history?

    Doesn't help with space.

    Won't prevent calls. Won't prevent texts.


  • #2418
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    limnam wrote: »
    Why keep bringing this up?

    Clearing selective call history has no impact on space.

    Why lie about it?

    Maybe not on modern phones, but perhaps on older phones (someone mentioned a Blackberry earlier) they did.

    In fact, I had a wee look out of curiosity and found a T-mobile website regarding Blackberries, and it states that deleting texts and call logs does/did indeed free up space.

    https://www.t-mobile.com/support/devices/blackberry/blackberry-classic/internal-storage-rom-blackberry-classic
    Clear storage regularly
    Clear storage at least once per week.

    Delete unnecessary text messages (SMS) and picture messages (MMS).
    Transfer pictures and media to a computer, and remove it from the phone memory.
    Clear the browser cache, cookies, or history.
    Clear Facebook app cache.
    Manage applications. See section below.
    Delete the call logs.

    Also, what lies did Gerry tell that were so nefarious as to paint him as a child killer? Did this salacious report by the book writer find any calls to/from suspicious numbers? Did the phone ping off miles away from the Mark Warner resort at any stage during that evening?

    I mean, we have phone records from CB that can almost pinpoint his exact location that night and who he was calling. Any information on that front that implicates the McCanns in a crime or consorting with criminals of any kind?

    I would have found that much more convincing than all this talk about busty aerobics instructors and a wrong number from Wales. In truth that ' report' really doesn't prove anything that points to a possible crime at all, does it?


  • #2419
    antgal23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭antgal23


    If I were on holidays and my daughter went missing I don't know what exactly I would do as shock would set in

    But, I've been in two family situations involving my kids and my first reaction was to take them to the hospital

    Now, in the case of a disappearance I recognise it's different.

    However, I'd say if my kid disappeared I'd instantly leave the area and go looking for her. I'd want to take immediate action that involves moving and doing

    My natural reaction would not be " Let's sit down and selectively delete my call and SMS history. "

    That would require a very calm mental and physical state to which I wouldn't have due to the shock of the disappearance


  • #2420
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Maybe not on modern phones, but perhaps on older phones (someone mentioned a Blackberry earlier) they did.

    In fact, I had a wee look out of curiosity and found a T-mobile website regarding Blackberries, and it states that deleting texts and call logs does/did indeed free up space.

    https://www.t-mobile.com/support/devices/blackberry/blackberry-classic/internal-storage-rom-blackberry-classic

    If there's a limit on call history. Not deleting it won't prevent a call/text.

    Again, if this was your concern. delete all history.

    There's no reason to be selective on two phones in the same window
    dark crystal wrote: »
    I would have found that much more convincing than all this talk about busty aerobics instructors and a wrong number from Wales. In truth that ' report' really doesn't prove anything that points to a possible crime at all, does it?

    Been honest I don't know what the busty aerobics instructor has to do with anything

    I've said all ready. The behavior doesn't point at a crime

    It points at very suspicious behavior.

    That's to anyone that hasn't already made up their mind on the case.


  • #2421
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    Do we know what model of phones they had?


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  • #2422
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    limnam wrote: »

    I've said all ready. The behavior doesn't point at a crime

    It points at very suspicious behavior.

    That's to anyone that hasn't already made up their mind on the case.

    Like you have on the new German suspect?


  • #2423
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    antgal23 wrote: »
    If I were on holidays and my daughter went missing I don't know what exactly I would do as shock would set in

    But, I've been in two family situations involving my kids and my first reaction was to take them to the hospital

    Now, in the case of a disappearance I recognise it's different.

    However, I'd say if my kid disappeared I'd instantly leave the area and go looking for her. I'd want to take immediate action that involves moving and doing

    My natural reaction would not be " Let's sit down and selectively delete my call and SMS history. "

    That would require a very calm mental and physical state to which I wouldn't have due to the shock of the disappearance


    Ah but the McCanns don't react the same way to stress and shock as everyone else

    how they react changes depending on if you're "with them" or "against" them


  • #2424
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Like you have on the new German suspect?

    I've my mind made up in the fact I think he shouldn't see the light of day.


  • #2425
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    limnam wrote: »
    I've my mind made up in the fact I think he shouldn't see the light of day.

    That we can all agree on, however, you have stated you believe nothing will come of this lead. That it's a dead end so to speak.

    Your mind is no more open on him than anyone else's is on the McCanns.


  • #2426
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    antgal23 wrote: »
    If I were on holidays and my daughter went missing I don't know what exactly I would do as shock would set in

    Agreed.


  • #2427
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    dark crystal wrote: »
    That we can all agree on, however, you have stated you believe nothing will come of this lead. That it's a dead end so to speak.

    Your mind is no more open on him than anyone else's is on the McCanns.

    Based on what we've seen/heard so far it doesn't sound like it will bear fruit.

    Germans stating they've evidence she's dead but maybe alive. nonsense stuff.

    But I'm not closed off to him.


  • #2428
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    limnam wrote: »
    Based on what we've seen/heard so far it doesn't sound like it will bear fruit.

    Just like the McCann investigation. Doesn't stop people accusing them of the unthinkable though.
    Germans stating they've evidence she's dead but maybe alive. nonsense stuff.

    They say they have 'concrete evidence ' she's dead. That's their current position. It remains to be seen if it's nonsense stuff or not.
    But I'm not closed off to him.

    Ok.


  • #2429
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    dark crystal wrote: »
    They say they have 'concrete evidence ' she's dead. That's their current position. It remains to be seen if it's nonsense stuff or not.

    They said she maybe alive.

    That concrete doesn't sound like it set correctly


  • #2430
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    limnam wrote: »
    They said she maybe alive.

    That was the initial statement, they have since stated and reiterated that they have concrete evidence. It's all on google and indeed this thread.
    That concrete doesn't sound like it set correctly

    There's that open mind at work again ;)


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  • #2431
    limnam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,345 ✭✭✭limnam


    dark crystal wrote: »


    There's that open mind at work again ;)

    Someone being dead and alive at the same time is difficult for me.

    I'm weird like that ;)


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