If Work From Home becomes a thing...

hots · 23-06-2020 11:54AM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

It was in its asre tongue in cheek. Chained to desk - where did I say that? I didn't say anything of the sort. If anything, we are afforded plenty of flexibility, but people are expected to reply in a timely manner during the working day. I think that is the way in most organisations and I don't see what you think is so unusual about that? We needed to get something done yesterday evening - do you know what a deadline is?

Somebody not replying to a request for information which is urgently needed, is in most organisations a problem. If you don't understand that, then I will just leave it there. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from a call centre, I will have you know! I honestly don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was a call centre, but your brain clearly works in mysterious ways.

In most organisations, people work in teams and report information up. Mine is no different! I don't see how or what you find so strange about that? If you have an issue with me mentioning his employment status, when there was no intention to suggest that he was a 2nd class citizen (which they are not treated like in our organisation at all), the issue is all yours.

Anyway, you have a good day.

Someone not returning an IM in an hour isn't unreasonable in any org I've ever worked with, unless there's an expectation for it previously set (like it's a go-live day or they know they are needed at the drop of a hat). An hour could feasibly be someone's lunch break, I assume them not responding because of that reason would be ok?

Generally if you haven't set the expectation that they need to be able to respond with an hour at all times, that's on you. If the culture is that you do have then that's their fault. I would see it as a very heavy mgmt style where there's no flexibility to allow 60 minutes away from the desk though.

If you're pro-wfh take it as a chance to set the expectation that if people are away from their desk then they need to put it in their calendar/ set their teams status or let X people know.

Cyrus · 23-06-2020 12:00PM

folks every organisation is different, where i work if the CEO wants something and someone has disappeared for an hour and cant be contacted he goes mental, lunch or not.

but everyone here (of a certain level of seniority at least) understands that and works within those parameters.

like with everything its a decision, are you paid enough to put up with it and happy to do so, if yes then carry on, if no, go somewhere else more relaxed

23-06-2020 12:11PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

...........We needed to get something done yesterday evening - do you know what a deadline is?
............

I do indeed, I also know what a plan is. I find them helpful to avoid things needing to be done last minute

The Spider · 23-06-2020 12:28PM

Blanco100 wrote: »

Would your address not be a standard inclusion in your CV?

Nope, cant actually remember getting a cv with an address on it, gdpr on top that
Will prevent that. You don't have to provide any information outside of your ability to attend and perform the job in question.

ELM327 · 23-06-2020 12:29PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I have worked in several organisations and never would I expect to have to have a meeting set up or e-mails back and forth if something is needed, especially when it is needed by senior management! Anyway.....

That sounds like micromanaged hell.

Have you ever watched the film "Office Space". You should.

hots · 23-06-2020 12:34PM

Cyrus wrote: »

folks every organisation is different, where i work if the CEO wants something and someone has disappeared for an hour and cant be contacted he goes mental, lunch or not.

but everyone here (of a certain level of seniority at least) understands that and works within those parameters.

like with everything its a decision, are you paid enough to put up with it and happy to do so, if yes then carry on, if no, go somewhere else more relaxed

True enough, in that scenario would you not have a mobile number for him to get you on though or something? I assume if you're in a meeting then their not going to be flat out pinging your Teams furious you're not responding?

The Spider · 23-06-2020 12:49PM

jrosen wrote: »

Couple of things. You say you have worked well at home. Has your work been consistent at home compared to pre-covid? Work load the same, deadlines etc? Or was your work load reduced.

If you work load has been consistent and you have been doing your job the same at home as you would in the office then you could put forward a convincing argument for some wfh flexibility. But some companies for whatever reason are not supportive of work from home.

Just get a different job, I think companies that don't offer work from home deserve to lose their talented staff, they're contributing to the skewed life imbalances in Ireland.

I think a lot of them are going to find out the hard way, and yes as has been mentioned middle managers will find it harder to get ahead not being in the office or they may become surplass to requirements as their teams carry on without much interference from them.

I understand the fear and need to get back to an office if you essentially aren't producing outputs but your team is

Cyrus · 23-06-2020 12:50PM

hots wrote: »

True enough, in that scenario would you not have a mobile number for him to get you on though or something? I assume if you're in a meeting then their not going to be flat out pinging your Teams furious you're not responding?

absolutely and he will call landline mobile etc but the poster had said he also called the persons mobile as well teams (and at least in my organisation a call on teams also calls the teams app on your mobile)

Cyrus · 23-06-2020 12:54PM

ELM327 wrote: »

That sounds like micromanaged hell.

Have you ever watched the film "Office Space". You should.

its fair to say people work in different organisations with different ways of working, i have experienced a lot of variety but where i am now is similar to what that poster is describing, if something is required its required immediately, not tomorrow, not next week.

If we are doing something we are doing it now.

is it efficient, no, is it the best way of managing a project no. But the owner is a multi multi millionaire so he kinda things his way is right, and he pays my bills so what ya gonna do :pac:

beauf · 23-06-2020 01:35PM

Steve Jobs was known for calling in the early hours and expecting people to drop what ever they are doing (like sleeping) and start working. But then hes also known as being a Jerk

This is really how you manage your work, team or business. Some people like everything to be a crisis, constant firefight, and most of the time its isn't. Like the way some people think everything is urgent when it isn't. It becomes habit, and ingrained. Not usually a nice place to work.

But there are ways of pushing back. My favorite is to ask them a question that sounds like they need to answer before I have to do anything but often isn't required. Or ask for a spec. They usually go away before realising its not needed.

beauf · 23-06-2020 01:38PM

Cyrus wrote: »

.... if something is required its required immediately, not tomorrow, not next week. ...

Usually with these kinda of people, you need to throw them something to play with. Hopefully something that redirects them to bother someone else.

The Spider · 23-06-2020 01:40PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

+1 to that. I say on my Skype/Teams "On lunch back at 2" or when I had a doctors appointment recently "Doctors appointment back in 1 hr - on mobile" or something to that effect.
Now we urgently needed the data and the other guy who could provide it was off sick, so he was the key contact. It isn't a place with a big overtime culture. A bit is expected occasionally but not much.

I guess it depends on the industry.

Bad planning and ad hoc systems, worked in a large organisation that had out of whack systems, product development ran like clockowork between UX development etc. Marketing different kettle of fish, had to be able to talk to someone at the drop of a hat because of their latest random idea.

23-06-2020 02:26PM

beauf wrote: »

Usually with these kinda of people, you need to throw them something to play with. Hopefully something that redirects them to bother someone else.

With company owners as Cyrus mentions it's very much things are done how they like them done. They are a breed apart IMO in many cases.

I worked for a company once where the owner was running it, maybe 15 employees ......... was grim enough at times, it was my 2nd proper job and my last one as an employee....... never again all going well.

23-06-2020 02:28PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

In most organisations, people work in teams and report information up. Mine is no different!

Its certainly not always like this, anywhere I have worked has been fairly flat from a hierarchy perspective. There are the teams and then management, or teams, high level management and one or two very senior management/CEO/site director level etc.

I communicate with management level if its something they need to know, I communicate with top level if its directly involving them or in most cases I deal with the external people myself and don't involve any internal management.

I've always been big into networking also though and have always got talking to senior people on nights out, building up relationships with them and end up having their ear which is always helpful.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I have worked in several organisations and never would I expect to have to have a meeting set up or e-mails back and forth if something is needed, especially when it is needed by senior management! Anyway.....

Its probably a little different as most of the projects I work on I look after most aspects and only need input here and there from other people but pretty much any interaction would be prearranged as I know others are busy with their own work, are working their own hours or taking lunch when they want, have appointments, are on days off etc etc. So in most cases an email would be sent to arrange a call with a few days notice etc. I deal mostly with external people though also which means schedules are totally different at times.

The fact is I'd never have someone looking for me with the need for an immediate response that just not how our projects work the exception being the last few hours before a deadline when its all hands on deck and you know this well in advance.

Also for collaborative work we tend to always used shared documents like google docs or word online so people add their input in their own time rather than it having to be requested.

Cyrus wrote: »

its fair to say people work in different organisations with different ways of working, i have experienced a lot of variety but where i am now is similar to what that poster is describing, if something is required its required immediately, not tomorrow, not next week.

If we are doing something we are doing it now.

It's a very different way of working for sure, as above thats not how projects run in many places and I'd see it as poorly managed form one side or another if things suddenly pop up like that (but of course it can be different in different industries so not saying you are poorly managing things). I know weeks in advance when there is going to be a day or two of all hands on deck and quick response times needed to push something over the line but outside of this there is nothing needing such urgency. That's not to say things aren't very busy but busy working away alone and if I need something an email would be sent and if a call or meeting (if we are onsite) is needed it would be prearranged even with internal colleagues.

beauf · 23-06-2020 02:40PM

Augeo wrote: »

With company owners as Cyrus mentions it's very much things are done how they like them done. They are a breed apart IMO in many cases.

I worked for a company once where the owner was running it, maybe 15 employees ......... was grim enough at times, it was my 2nd proper job and my last one as an employee....... never again all going well.

Oh I agree.

Cyrus · 23-06-2020 02:52PM

beauf wrote: »

Usually with these kinda of people, you need to throw them something to play with. Hopefully something that redirects them to bother someone else.

whats it someone said about their neighbour and a new car, it didnt matter what kind of sh!t it was as long as it was steaming fresh,

its a bit like that, send them something new, might not be what they asked for but will keep the wolf from the door

beauf · 23-06-2020 02:53PM

This is so accurate....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyV0IVItlM4

PhilOssophy · 23-06-2020 02:54PM

Micromanaged p1ss/hell hole!! Love it, when I posted the original observation I did not think it would result in such craic!
Top finance guy in company asks person for something urgent, can't get it myself so asks someone to help and it is a micromanaged kip on that basis!
Fantastic! I am in the presence of geniuses on boards.

hots · 23-06-2020 02:56PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Top finance guru

:pac:

PhilOssophy · 23-06-2020 02:59PM

hots wrote: »

:pac:

Predictive text is a curse some times!

23-06-2020 03:01PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Micromanaged p1ss/hell hole!! Love it, when I posted the original observation I did not think it would result in such craic!
Top finance guru in company asks person for something urgent, can't get it myself so asks someone to help and it is a micromanaged kip on that basis!
Fantastic! I am in the presence of geniuses on boards.

It's you that is painting the picture .........

PhilOssophy wrote: »

.........The minority who can't be disciplined enough to do it, will just ruin it for everybody...........

PhilOssophy wrote: »

......I'm not trying to cause a row or anything, I am just saying that this is why WFH will just be abandoned in so many places. Sadly.
........

Fill us in anyway, what happened when you went back to the top finance guru after the chap you asked to help you (who isn't disciplined enough, your words) didn't respond for an hour?

PhilOssophy · 23-06-2020 03:14PM

Augeo wrote: »

It's you that is painting the picture ...

I still don't know how you thought that and came to such a wildly inaccurate conclusion.

beauf · 23-06-2020 03:23PM

Augeo wrote: »

....Fill us in anyway, what happened when you went back to the top finance guru after the chap you asked to help you (who isn't disciplined enough, your words) didn't respond for an hour?

Sounds like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGFGD5pj03M

ELM327 · 23-06-2020 03:27PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I still don't know how you thought that and came to such a wildly inaccurate conclusion.

Did you get the memo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsLUidiYm0w

Lumen · 23-06-2020 03:48PM

The key word in PhilOssophy's acecdote is "required".

Just because someone more senior asked for it does not make it "required".

In my experience, the common sources of time-critical management requests are when (a) sh!t has hit the fan with a customer, the problem has been escalated and a quick response is desired to make everyone look better, which is kind of fair enough but should be rare, or (b) the company is stuffed with worthless middle management who are crawling over each other to look like they're doing something useful by demanding down and responding up.

If I had to put money on it, I'd pick (b), but it's just a guess.

PhilOssophy · 23-06-2020 03:57PM

Lumen wrote: »

The key word in PhilOssophy's acecdote is "required".

Just because someone more senior asked for it does not make it "required".

In my experience, the common sources of time-critical management requests are when (a) sh!t has hit the fan with a customer, the problem has been escalated and a quick response is desired to make everyone look better, which is kind of fair enough but should be rare, or (b) the company is stuffed with worthless middle management who are crawling over each other to look like they're doing something useful by demanding down and responding up.

If I had to put money on it, I'd pick (b), but it's just a guess.

Well you'd be way out, it just happened to be a busy period and something was needed quickly. But I know what you mean about b as worked in a few of them in the past.
I have to admit I'm amazed at people's aversion to an urgent request. It isn't something that happens often but occasionally. I would guess there's a lot of civil servants on here if that is the level of agility!

23-06-2020 04:35PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

.......... I would guess there's a lot of civil servants on here if that is the level of agility!

That's totally uncalled for :pac:

ELM327 · 23-06-2020 04:37PM

Augeo wrote: »

That's totally uncalled for :pac:

I'll file a ticket for you in the grievances department.
Estimated SLA is 46 weeks

Cyrus · 23-06-2020 04:39PM

Lumen wrote: »

The key word in PhilOssophy's acecdote is "required".

Just because someone more senior asked for it does not make it "required".

In my experience, the common sources of time-critical management requests are when (a) sh!t has hit the fan with a customer, the problem has been escalated and a quick response is desired to make everyone look better, which is kind of fair enough but should be rare, or (b) the company is stuffed with worthless middle management who are crawling over each other to look like they're doing something useful by demanding down and responding up.

If I had to put money on it, I'd pick (b), but it's just a guess.

not sure about where you work but in my place if the owner wants it or the CFO wants it, its required.

Better get it done than get into a philsophical argument like the above that will get me the sack :pac:

beauf · 23-06-2020 04:42PM

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well you'd be way out, it just happened to be a busy period and something was needed quickly. But I know what you mean about b as worked in a few of them in the past.
I have to admit I'm amazed at people's aversion to an urgent request. It isn't something that happens often but occasionally. I would guess there's a lot of civil servants on here if that is the level of agility!

The problem with urgent requests, is that its usually not urgent, it's usually someone acting in haste, which usually means not done properly. Which means it will have to be redone or corrected, which causes a load of completely unnecessary work. Consumes resources very inefficiently.

It's usually habitual and cultural and causes a cascade of other issues.

Not sure why "civil servants" is your response to people pointing out the obvious issues with what you posted.

If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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