Was Dublin better in the 80s?

Rodney Bathgate · 22-06-2020 11:20PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

The physics definition of work. The product of force and displacement. Less force and displacement utilised sitting outside a Spar than walking house to house.

Effort might be a better choice of word.

beauf · 22-06-2020 11:20PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

One thing I was thinking of earlier is that there are people begging outside Spars in the suburbs nowadays. I never saw that as a kid. We may have more materials now but maybe we are poorer socially.

There were beggars in the 80s. But they generally didn't have a mobile phone worth 400 quid. There are lots of people very poor these days and homeless. But some beggars are simply professional beggars.

beauf · 22-06-2020 11:26PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

This photo will give the OP - and anyone else too young to remember - a little taste of the state of inner city Dublin back in the 1980s...

This is Ormond Quay Lower, near where the Morrison Hotel is now.

Good photo gallery on Dublin city Centre in the 1980s here in this link:

https://www.dublincity.ie/library-galleries1/202

They had an opportunity at this time to knock a lot of these and widen at least some of the quays. But no threw the opportunity away. Did the same with Luas tracks. Lots of building up the edge of those too.

dasdog · 22-06-2020 11:36PM

Some of the suburbs were fine but parts of the city were absolutes holes. I remember the smell of the leaky refuse sacks on the streets, black chewing gum covering grey pavement slabs, derelict city centre crumbling buildings everywhere and the more iconic buildings covered in dirt from car exhaust fumes, the smog, jumpers and jeans junkies, flagon drinkers, glue sniffers, the violence, the skinheads, the joyriders (it was like a national sport), the unemployment. It's no wonder there was so much emigration. The only chinks of light and hope came from the arts and music. Just about everything else was as pretty bleak. The 90's was like some sort revolutionary paradise compared to it.

22-06-2020 11:36PM

Overall I’d say Dublin is far better than in the 80s but there’s a but!
The city is far too expensive nowadays, working class people have been squeezed out of a lot of areas. The social side of the city has also changed greatly, community doesn’t exist in the way it did then. But loads of things are better.
A more interesting comparison is Dublin in the mid to late 90s versus now. I’d probably opt for that time, was a great sense of momentum but I don’t think people had been left behind by the pace of change yet. Inequality is far greater now than in the 90s.

dhaughton99 · 22-06-2020 11:38PM

Shopping for clothes in Army Bargains and buying cassette tapes of gigs on O’Connell bridge. No thanks

Hurrache · 22-06-2020 11:49PM

beauf wrote: »

They had an opportunity at this time to knock a lot of these and widen at least some of the quays. But no threw the opportunity away. Did the same with Luas tracks. Lots of building up the edge of those too.

I can't believe you're serious with a lot of your thoughts on facilitating more traffic in and out of the city at the expense of the city itself.

Lucy8080 · 23-06-2020 12:54AM

beauf wrote: »

They had an opportunity at this time to knock a lot of these and widen at least some of the quays. But no threw the opportunity away. Did the same with Luas tracks. Lots of building up the edge of those too.

The buildings along the Dublin quays may have been falling into disrepair (long before the 80's too). Thank fcuk nobody drove a highway through those place's in the name of modernism.

When ever I visit Dublin ,I want to see those Quays and their narrow streets/roads that lie each side.

Some of us understand that people can know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

chrissb8 · 23-06-2020 01:02AM

beauf wrote: »

They had an opportunity at this time to knock a lot of these and widen at least some of the quays. But no threw the opportunity away. Did the same with Luas tracks. Lots of building up the edge of those too.

Aaaaand that attitude and thinking is why so much of the beautiful buildings and architecture disappeared over the years in Ireland. Building techniques and styles that give us a tangible memory to our past.

All for a road.

F*** me.

Larbre34 · 23-06-2020 01:11AM

I'm well old enough to remember the sight of Dublin in the early 80s, driving around on the auld lads lorry and going to matches in Croke Park etc. And even as a nipper I remember the acres upon acres of straight up dereliction. Gardiner St up to Mountjoy Square and down around Charlemont St looked like Dresden after the fire bombing. And I'm not exaggerating.

Yes Dublin has some issues of success now, but its WAY better as a City these days, in every measureable aspect and most of the immeasurable ones too.

beauf · 23-06-2020 01:33AM

Lucy8080 wrote: »

The buildings along the Dublin quays may have been falling into disrepair (long before the 80's too). Thank fcuk nobody drove a highway through those place's in the name of modernism.

When ever I visit Dublin ,I want to see those Quays and their narrow streets/roads that lie each side.

Some of us understand that people can know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

chrissb8 wrote: »

Aaaaand that attitude and thinking is why so much of the beautiful buildings and architecture disappeared over the years in Ireland. Building techniques and styles that give us a tangible memory to our past.

All for a road.

F*** me.

You're missing the point. They demolished the buildings anyway, and replaced them with bland new buildings. But at the same time kept the building line. . So there is no room for Luas, bus lanes, cycle lanes or wide footpaths. They kept the cars, so we have the same and worse traffic.

... and you're happy they did that. You think whats there now is the best outcome.

beauf · 23-06-2020 01:36AM

Hurrache wrote: »

I can't believe you're serious with a lot of your thoughts on facilitating more traffic in and out of the city at the expense of the city itself.

The space created wouldn't have been for cars. I thought that was obvious.

beauf · 23-06-2020 01:40AM

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Overall I’d say Dublin is far better than in the 80s but there’s a but!
The city is far too expensive nowadays, working class people have been squeezed out of a lot of areas. The social side of the city has also changed greatly, community doesn’t exist in the way it did then. But loads of things are better.
A more interesting comparison is Dublin in the mid to late 90s versus now. I’d probably opt for that time, was a great sense of momentum but I don’t think people had been left behind by the pace of change yet. Inequality is far greater now than in the 90s.

Lot of grubby areas in the city now. Full of squalor, drugs etc.

Its become like a big city in Europe or UK. Less character, less Irish.

But then richer, both in wealth and with other cultures and experiences. We've gained a lot, but lost somethings also.

JupiterKid · 23-06-2020 01:55AM

It has to be remembered that Ireland was a much, much poorer country back in the 1980s compared to today. We barely qualified for the ranks of developed countries. The state of Dublin at that time very much reflected that fact. Corruption was endemic in politics and business.

I have a superb Time Life book on Dublin from 1978 - part of a series called The Great Cities - and the author gives a very good insight into Dublin at that time. Some superb photography of a Dublin now long gone.

Poverty and deprivation everywhere, a very aloof but quite small and ivory tower cohort of well-to-do in the professions who were the regulars at the RDS horse show. Connections and family ties meant everything back then compared to the relative meritocracy of today. Limited opportunities. The pub was, of course, the primary social outlet and alcohol was the coping mechanism for the many ills of life in Dublin 40 years ago. An all-powerful Catholic Church. A repressive society.

Dublin is described as “a city of charms that is down at heel and of faded glory” - that same author also lamented that “Dublin was always a bit behind the times.”

jimmyohallogan · 23-06-2020 02:02AM

better than what?
dublin is just dublin

Richard Hillman · 23-06-2020 02:09AM

I was in Zagreb a couple of years ago and I think I got close to the feel of the Ireland in the 80s. There were lots of run down buildings, boarded up shops and infrastructure was quite old. But the thing that stuck with me most was that there were no young people. It seems like they had all emigrated.

I did enjoy the City but obviously Croatia is not too far along after the war and have joined the EU, so things are starting to come along. It was probably similar to Ireland in the early 90s.

Bratislava is quite similar.

ArnoldJRimmer · 23-06-2020 04:17AM

Thats a typical comment from a Dublin taxi driver, along with how the gubberment is a disgrace, how coddle is great, with of course some casual racism thrown in here and there

Dublin has its problems these days, mainly around affordable housing for its residents, inadequate infrastructure, and antisocial behaviour in pockets of the city centre. But its light years ahead of the 1980s. Ireland was poor, and this was most evident in large sections of Dublin. People may well have looked after each other more back then, but thats because in a lot of communities, no one had a pot to p!ss in. For the taxi driver, like all nostalgia, its because he was young, not because things were better

Hurrache · 23-06-2020 08:44AM

beauf wrote: »

You're missing the point. They demolished the buildings anyway, and replaced them with bland new buildings. But at the same time kept the building line. . So there is no room for Luas, bus lanes, cycle lanes or wide footpaths. They kept the cars, so we have the same and worse traffic.

... and you're happy they did that. You think whats there now is the best outcome.

There was no Luas or crystal ball to foresee that we may once have money to spend on one back then. It inevitably would be paved over for cars, it's not as if the city wasn't polluted enough already as it was.

beauf wrote: »

The space created wouldn't have been for cars. I thought that was obvious.

It most certainly would.

Mad_maxx · 23-06-2020 08:54AM

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Overall I’d say Dublin is far better than in the 80s but there’s a but!
The city is far too expensive nowadays, working class people have been squeezed out of a lot of areas. The social side of the city has also changed greatly, community doesn’t exist in the way it did then. But loads of things are better.
A more interesting comparison is Dublin in the mid to late 90s versus now. I’d probably opt for that time, was a great sense of momentum but I don’t think people had been left behind by the pace of change yet. Inequality is far greater now than in the 90s.

There's a constant prevailing narrative that "inequality "is worse now but the actual data is somewhat different

For Forks Sake · 23-06-2020 09:26AM

satguy wrote: »

Back then,, a working couple could buy a really nice house,, and run a very nice car.

Now you can't even get on the property ladder,, and all your money goes on rent, and bills.

Average mortgage interest rate throughout the 80s was in the region of 13-14%, topping out at a tasty 16.25% for most of 1981/82

Fuel prices for cars were also wildly variable, the car ran until rust ate it due to the shocking state of the materials used to build them, or joyriders lifted it.

Hurrache · 23-06-2020 09:28AM

And there wouldn't be too many working couples, either for the scarcity of jobs, or that for some, either women weren't allowed, or had to leave them once they got married.

Cal4567 · 23-06-2020 09:32AM

It was a bit of a kip alright. I went to London for 3 years in 82 and when I came back only then did I realise how much of a kip it was. We seemed to be living in a state controlled time warp.

Thing is though because it was all we knew we didn't really think otherwise. Looking back 30 plus year later, all of us who left were those who couldn't get various public sector jobs or who couldn't just go and work in their family business.

Ger Roe · 23-06-2020 09:37AM

banie01 wrote: »

22000 cars stolen in Dublin alone in 1983!

22000....
That's staggering!

Granted you could rob a car those days with a house key and a coat hanger!
But just shows you the regard that property and by extension property crime were held in at the time.

The 80's.... hearing frequent stolen car reports broadcast on illegal pirate radio stations.
They were great times.

ChikiChiki · 23-06-2020 09:40AM

Tell said taxi driver he needs to shove his misguided nostalgia up his rectum.

beauf · 23-06-2020 09:48AM

Hurrache wrote: »

There was no Luas or crystal ball to foresee that we may once have money to spend on one back then. It inevitably would be paved over for cars, it's not as if the city wasn't polluted enough already as it was.

It most certainly would.

Not everyone was as shortsighted as you're suggesting...

https://www.thejournal.ie/40-years-on-wood-quay-4286789-Oct2018/

"The idea for a new tram or light rail system for the city of Dublin was first suggested in 1981, by a Dublin Transportation Initiative (DTI) report"

That said we are doing the same thing now. Very poor planning going on.

CoBo55 · 23-06-2020 09:50AM

satguy wrote: »

Back then,, a working couple could buy a really nice house,, and run a very nice car.

Now you can't even get on the property ladder,, and all your money goes on rent, and bills.

You must be the taxi driver he was talking to... A nice car in the 80's? Dream on..

marieholmfan · 23-06-2020 09:53AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

One thing I was thinking of earlier is that there are people begging outside Spars in the suburbs nowadays. I never saw that as a kid. We may have more materials now but maybe we are poorer socially.

There were TONNES of beggars in Ireland in the '80s. You just don't remember because you were born in '88.

topper75 · 23-06-2020 10:04AM

I think the Commitments movie (1991 if I recall) captured a bit of the zeitgeist for those who didn't live it and are curious.
Maybe even the Snapper movie had some of the vibe.

I didn't really engage fully with the place until I moved there in 1995 but that is only a few years off the era the taxi driver referred to.

I would see some of his point. All the negatives have been alluded to already - and they were blatant. However it was a much more accessible town. Though jobs weren't easy to come by - if you got one, it was relatively straightforward to set yourself up in life. You'd pay punishing interest on a mortgage but if the payslips were in order, you'd get that mortgage soonish for a 3 bed semi. There was much less pretension and little fakery compared with today. Parking was easier. Traffic was lighter. Having a bit of a banter with a stranger at a bus stop or in a shop wasn't weird. Dublin wit was a real thing back then. Some gas characters and fast off the mark, esp bus workers (in the early 80s you still had conductors). The broadsheets didn't feel any need to sensationalise. Cops would actually walk all streets on a regular basis. Concert and sports tickets were extremely reasonable by contrast to today. The economic damage of the tiger has been all but patched up but the social damage seems to be permanent. We're not going back. Of course a lot of what I'm talking about isn't Dublin-specific. Dublin bobs along in a global tide.

Sheep_shear · 23-06-2020 10:06AM

My uncle worked in a bar. Didn't own it or anything. His wife stayed at home and brought up the kids. On a single salary, they bought a good solid, nice house which they're still in today.

My sister now lives in Dublin. She's got some fancy job with a decent pay pack and her husband is in the public sector. They have a new-ish build semi-d which is pretty small, precorona and probably postcorona they pay a bucket load to strangers to look after the kids for most of the day, and I dread to think of how long their commute actually is.

Yeah a lot of things are better than in the 80s. Other things have most definitely gotten worse.

DarTipp · 23-06-2020 10:33AM

society was much better, people looked out for each other more and not like now where people are quick to report people to get a compo claim etc.

Was Dublin better in the 80s?

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