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Madeleine McCann

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/20/madeleine-mccann-case-tabloids-and-trolls-fill-vacuum-as-wait-goes-on

    Weeks after Germans identified a suspect, there is no further clarity but much slander and speculation.

    Out of the blue, more than 13 years after Madeleine McCann disappeared, it seemed as if a resolution to the case might be in sight when German police this month identified a new prime suspect and launched an international appeal for information.

    Circumstantial evidence placed Christian Brückner, a convicted paedophile currently in prison, in the town of Praia de Luz on the day of the disappearance, 3 May 2007. “It was a real bombshell in Germany,” said Roman Lehberger, a journalist at the news magazine Der Spiegel. “It was clear to all of us immediately that this was a huge breakthrough.”

    A fortnight later, the clarity that the McCann family have sought so desperately is yet to be found. Even as the German prosecutor referred to “concrete evidence” that Madeleine was dead, a saga seen by some as one of the most unedifying in the history of the British media has reverted to type. There are sharp disagreements between police forces, anonymised and libellous warfare on social media, dubious claims reported as fact, exhaustion in Praia de Luz – and, at the centre of it all, a family whose only defence against the world is silence.

    “This is the first time in many years that it seems like a real suspect has been brought forward. There are real facts,” said Robbyn Swan, a co-author with Anthony Summers of the 2014 book Looking for Madeleine. “But we are seeing, sadly, a repeat of the behaviour that we saw years ago.”


    With hundreds of leads flooding in to police, the fact that the case has not yet been solved should not be viewed as reason to think it never will be. “It’s really early, and they’re keeping their cards very close to their chests,” Lehberger said. “My sense is that there has not yet been a major breakthrough – they would have announced it by now if there was solid evidence. But they need time to get a clear picture.”

    But he added: “He [Brückner] has months to serve still, but his release is on the horizon. They’re getting a little bit nervous and they need to pin this on him now. This is their last resort.”

    Observers of the circus that has long followed the McCann story say that in the vacuum created by the wait since that appeal for a clear outcome, the narrative has reverted to type.
    Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
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    Dr John Synnott, a senior lecturer in investigative and forensic psychology at the University of Huddersfield, published a study in 2017 of the behaviour of online trolls who maintain that Kate and Gerry McCann were responsible for their daughter’s disappearance, against all evidence to the contrary. Three years later, he says the behaviour of his subjects remains the same.

    One thread on a popular messageboard, whose members accuse the McCanns, has drawn almost 1,000 posts in the past fortnight, while the #mccann hashtag on Twitter has become a torrent of speculation and abuse.

    The trolls jump on any new information and find their own angle. “It is hugely important to a lot of people’s identities,” Synnott said. “They see new information, but they find something in there that aligns with their existing critique, and they regurgitate it.”



    If the trolls have reverted to type, so too have parts of the media, publishing anonymous second-hand source accounts of Brückner’s confession, suggestions that he “turned his friend into a paedophile”, and speculation on his mental state from an expert who “once examined Adolf and Eva Hitler’s skulls”. One story focused on pictures of an apartment Brückner once lived in featuring a child’s cuddly horse – only to note in the caption that the pictures had been taken after he moved out and the flat was redecorated.


    Meanwhile, the police forces of the three countries involved are said to have been in dispute, with questions in Germany over whether British investigators acted on leads relating to Brückner shared by their German counterparts between 2013 and 2017, and accounts emerging from Portugal of anger at an “arrogant” German request to retest a saliva sample.

    In Portugal, where the case has gripped public attention over the years just as it has in the UK, updates have led broadcast news bulletins and front pages. Rui Gustavo, a journalist for the Expresso newspaper, said police disagreements were overplayed, and readers were following the case as closely as ever. “People are reacting with surprise because everyone thought the case was dead,” he said. “It’s an incredible phenomenon.”

    In Germany it is suspected either that the proof of Madeleine’s death may not be admissible in court because of how it was obtained, or that police are deliberately holding back information that could only be known to the perpetrator in order not to jeopardise the investigation.

    Until the police have followed up every tip, the picture will remain as opaque and as open to speculation as it has always been. “They needed that response from the public,” said Anthony Summers. “A lot of it will be useless, but investigations really are resolved this way: the idea that there’s someone, somewhere, who knows the little bit that we need to slot the thing together.”

    Like Synnott, Summers fears that for some it will never be enough. “There is a hardcore cadre who will never believe any resolution,” he said. “They will take this to the ‘we never landed on the moon’ level.”

    Swan, the author, said such accounts should not overwhelm the smaller and more significant story at the centre of the maelstrom. “If we’re talking about a suspect convicted of child sexual assault and abuse and that is the kind of person who is ultimately found to be guilty – those are the people who do it again if they aren’t stopped,” she said.

    “And we try to remind ourselves every time we talk about it that there is this family at the heart of it, to speak with some care and some empathy for what they must go through every time her name is mentioned. The world talks about it as a case; for them it is their lives.”

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal



    Aaah, Amaral...amoral...whatever.

    Now, I wonder why he's dismissing this suspect... It wouldn't be because he might be in a spot of bother for writing a book about how the parents were guilty, would it?

    He might look like even more a fool than he did when he was sacked from the investigation and demoted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    Aaah, Amaral...amoral...whatever.

    Now, I wonder why he's dismissing this suspect... It wouldn't be because he might be in a spot of bother for writing a book about how the parents were guilty, would it?

    He might look like even more a fool than he did when he was sacked from the investigation and demoted.

    Now he's saying they checked the new suspect out

    The Portuguese and German authorities are in conflict with the new lines of investigation in the case of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, who disappeared on May 3, 2007, in Praia da Luz. According to the English press, the PJ refused the request of the German police to return performing tests on the saliva sample taken from the apartment where Maddie slept, moments before disappearing. Portuguese researchers have already analyzed this sample and, according to Gonçalo Amaral, also the yellow and white VolksWagen van by Christian Brueckner, the German pedophile who is the new suspect in the case, was analyzed in Portugal and Germany, with no trace of relevant DNA to research.

    At a time when the German police continue to ask the population for any important information in the case, the Daily Mail writes that the PJ considered that the request for a new test of saliva found "typically arrogant", since it has already been analyzed previously and that "it is impossible to extract any DNA profile from the sample" to compare it with Christian Brueckner's DNA profile.

    "It has already been analyzed and it is an insult that they ask to be done again. It is a waste of time. And worse is that they want to do it in German laboratories, as if ours were not trained to do so", says a source from the mentioned PJ by the English daily.

    After more evidence was found by the German police, in a caravan that also belonged to Brueckner (children's clothing and pens with more than 8,000 child pornography files), the PJ and the German authorities are at an impasse and the I suspect Madeleine has yet to draw the permanent ink - the evidence presented so far is circumstantial.

    Also the yellow and white van of Christian Brueckner, a VolksWagen Westphalia where the German lived during his time in Portugal, has already been analyzed by the German authorities. What would prove to be a key piece of evidence turned out to be fruitless, since the vehicle will have already been thoroughly analyzed and no traces of DNA were found that link Christian Brueckner to the murder of Madeleine McCann.

    Gonçalo Amaral, ex-inspector of Faro PJ who led the case in Portugal, tells the Australian channel 9news that it is wrong that Christian Brueckner escaped the radar of the Portuguese authorities and that the German was investigated at the time. "He was investigated by the PJ at the time and, when the investigation was over, he was discarded," says Gonçalo Amaral, who reveals that even though Brueckner's van was analyzed even before the German police made the suspect known.

    "The caravan where he lived was taken to Germany and analyzed. Tests were done but no DNA evidence was found, nothing was found there," said Gonçalo Amaral.

    Despite this impasse, the German authorities guarantee that Madeleine McCann "is dead", without however revealing what evidence (which will not be biological) leads to this certainty. Around here, the PJ has already guaranteed that it will only search the field again if the German investigators reveal the specific places where Maddie's body may be and share the clue that supports the thesis of the death of the English girl at the hands of Christian Brueckner .

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths



    Now, I wonder why he's dismissing this suspect... It wouldn't be because he might be in a spot of bother for writing a book about how the parents were guilty, would it?

    Spot of bother? Didn't he win the case of libel the McCanns brought? The BBC said he did.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-36088240


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Spot of bother? Didn't he win the case of libel the McCanns brought? The BBC said he did.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-36088240

    He lost the first libel case, then it was overturned on appeal, yep. That's why he's probably panicking a little now there's a new suspect on the horizon. Imagine having to pay back all that money he made from his book!

    He'd have quite a bit of egg on his face if it turned out they were innocent all along, not that he made much of a convincing argument otherwise in his book, mind you. Something about putting the body in a fridge or something, then it was a well, then it was cremated in a church...there were many tall tales from this stellar detective who was convicted of falsifying evidence in another case.

    Oh, he also believes MI5 are covering it up too. So, you'll forgive me if I take this man's ramblings with a pinch of salt.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    But the two issues are no way comparable as a crime under law. One is infinitely a more serious crime. Obviously the abduction was the real crime. So when this thread gets going on talking about who is responsible for the crime of abduction the thread gets keeping being taken back to the parents when the real crime was committed by the abductor.

    There is currently no more evidence of an abduction than there is of the parents doing it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    He lost the first libel case, then it was overturned on appeal, yep. That's why he's probably panicking a little now there's a new suspect on the horizon. Imagine having to pay back all that money he made from his book!

    He'd have quite a bit of egg on his face if it turned out they were innocent all along, not that he made much of a convincing argument otherwise in his book, mind you. Something about putting the body in a fridge or something, then it was a well, then it was cremated in a church...there were many tall tales from this stellar detective who was convicted of falsifying evidence in another case.

    Oh, he also believes MI5 are covering it up too. So, you'll forgive me if I take this man's ramblings with a pinch of salt.

    He didn't win the libel case because the court thought he was 'right' and this might now be overturned. He won the case because he could show what was in his book was the contents of the real police investigation and it was not libel to describe the contents of the shelved investigation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    The investigation of this has been an absolute shambles from the start and attracted some of the most dubious characters with questionable motives. The Portuguese detective who wrote a book about it, the Portuguese police who displayed little serious interest in the case from the start, the UK private investigator who turned out to be a fraud, a German detective sending letters saying he's sure Madeline is dead and then elsewhere saying he doesn't know, and then the various acquaintances of the German suspect some of whom were either cellmates or partners in crime, great reliable witnesses alright.
    And then there's the rapes in Portugal the police also didn't bother to investigate properly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    He didn't win the libel case because the court thought he was 'right' and this might now be overturned. He won the case because he could show what was in his book was the contents of the real police investigation and it was not libel to describe the contents of the shelved investigation.

    Yes? I said the libel conviction was overturned, I didn't deny it.

    Whatever the ruling, he implied they were responsible for their daughter's death and the concealment of her body. This has never been proven and if this suspect turns out to have done it, he would look rather foolish in that assertion, no?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    Yes? I said the libel conviction was overturned, I didn't deny it.

    Whatever the ruling, he implied they were responsible for their daughter's death and the concealment of her body. This has never been proven and if this suspect turns out to have done it, he would look rather foolish in that assertion, no?

    And the ECHR may then overturn the decision in favour of the McCanns appeal

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    There is currently no more evidence of an abduction than there is of the parents doing it.

    Apparently there's no evidence in this case at all. I'm confused :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    The investigation of this has been an absolute shambles from the start and attracted some of the most dubious characters with questionable motives. The Portuguese detective who wrote a book about it, the Portuguese police who displayed little serious interest in the case from the start, the UK private investigator who turned out to be a fraud, a German detective sending letters saying he's sure Madeline is dead and then elsewhere saying he doesn't know, and then the various acquaintances of the German suspect some of whom were either cellmates or partners in crime, great reliable witnesses alright.
    And then there's the rapes in Portugal the police also didn't bother to investigate properly.

    What about the UK police? A senior detective from the Met refused to led the case as he was not allowed investigate certain avenues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    limnam wrote: »
    Wouldn't need to if there wasn't people condoning leaving 3 kids on their own in an unlocked apartment while they go off on the vino.

    Not "condoning" or excusing at all: just that it isn't the whole story of what happened.

    There's more! Wait and see! There are worse criminals than the McCann parents at large in this world - and some of them were right there in Praia that fateful night.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    There is currently no more evidence of an abduction than there is of the parents doing it.

    you may have missed the news recently where the German prosecutor has said they have concrete evidence that she's dead and that CB killed her.

    so, as most would agree, it may come to nothing. But if i was betting money on it (and i won't be) i'd say the Germans are on to something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    you may have missed the news recently where the German prosecutor has said they have concrete evidence that she's dead and that CB killed her.

    so, as most would agree, it may come to nothing. But if i was betting money on it (and i won't be) i'd say the Germans are on to something.

    Is that the German prosecutor who said she's dead, then she maybe alive. He seemed somewhat confused. Sent a letter not received or maybe was received. Confusing behaviour tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    Is that the German prosecutor who said she's dead, then she maybe alive. He seemed somewhat confused. Sent a letter not received or maybe was received. Confusing behaviour tbh.

    yep. and agree it's confusing. not helped by how it's been reported.

    what do you think has led them to say they think he's the guy?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    the UK private investigator who turned out to be a fraud,

    What happened here?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 959 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeleineMccann/comments/hdsoog/gonçalo_amaral_interview_21062020_translation_and/

    interesting interview by Amaral to say the least. helpfully translated by someone on reddit. He certainly doesn't seem to believe CB is the guy, but suggests the german investigation may lead to new leads.

    Certainly would be good to get that hair sample re-tested using more modern techniques. to get some certainty on it. as it stands there will always be a question mark over the rental car.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 CityMan2020


    People actually believe this new lead
    The McCann's have been protected from the start by very powerful people
    Why?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 764 ✭✭✭buttercups88


    The indepent is reporting that evidence recovered from the Irish woman, hazel Behan who was raped in the algarve in a similar attack to the one Christian B carried out on the elderly woman, was destroyed on order by Portuguese law officials.
    This happened in 2004 before Madeleine disappeared.

    Seems a lot of people have been failed by the Portuguese police force and legal system


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    The old chief Amaral said last year he believed that they would attempt to pin the case on a German paedophile, was it in the Maddie podcast series?

    He also told the DailyMail the Germans have doctored the pictures of his camper van as to remove the despicable men characters that were on the van. It's all so exceptionally strange.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    People actually believe this new lead
    The McCann's have been protected from the start by very powerful people
    Why?

    That is obvious, most intelligent people will ask questions.

    D notice is my opinion. So no real questions can be asked anyway. Perfect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    That is obvious, most intelligent people will ask questions.

    D notice is my opinion. So no real questions can be asked anyway. Perfect.

    Any evidence of this alleged D notice?

    You have said it numerous times on Boards.ie

    Without backing up what you are saying, you have no credibility to your statements

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Any evidence of this alleged D notice?

    You have said it numerous times on Boards.ie

    Without backing up what you are saying, you have no credibility to your statements

    They did claim a D notice was their opinion. This thread is full of opinions from various posters and in the absence of evidence every comment here is a posters opinion no more or no less valid than anyone elses tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    Can’t hide the fact that Amaral predicted all this a year ago no matter what you think of him. So you’d have to take this suspect with a as pinch of salt. One thing for sure is PDL is teeming with Peados and weirdos so I’d say there’s a list as long as their arm to investigate. It does seem like there’s been way too many Chiefs and not enough Indians since day one of the investigation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Any evidence of this alleged D notice?

    You have said it numerous times on Boards.ie

    Without backing up what you are saying, you have no credibility to your statements

    You're wasting your time, been through this numerous times.

    It has no credibility because it's a fantasy, so you won't get any proof of these claims, trust me.

    The police are all in on it, MI5 are covering it up, politicians are in their pocket etc. It's conspiracy theory 101. No proof needed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    They did claim a D notice was their opinion. This thread is full of opinions from various posters and in the absence of evidence every comment here is a posters opinion no more or no less valid than anyone elses tbh.

    Opinions are fine.....but to constantly post the same thing over and over, be it an opinion on different threads (not always with an IMO) get a bit tiresome.

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    You're wasting your time, been through this numerous times.

    It has no credibility because it's a fantasy, so you won't get any proof of these claims, trust me.

    The police are all in on it, MI5 are covering it up, politicians are in their pocket etc. It's conspiracy theory 101. No proof needed.


    100% agree IMHO ;)

    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭Banana Republic.


    You're wasting your time, been through this numerous times.

    It has no credibility because it's a fantasy, so you won't get any proof of these claims, trust me.

    The police are all in on it, MI5 are covering it up, politicians are in their pocket etc. It's conspiracy theory 101. No proof needed.
    So what happened to Madeline in your opinion? Interested in your theory.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    You're wasting your time, been through this numerous times.

    It has no credibility because it's a fantasy, so you won't get any proof of these claims, trust me.

    The police are all in on it, MI5 are covering it up, politicians are in their pocket etc. It's conspiracy theory 101. No proof needed.

    Isn't that the problem with this case , the only proof that exists is Maddie was neglected and disappeared. Everything else is opinion and guess work.


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