beef price tracker

T0001 · 17-06-2020 01:49PM

Aravo wrote: »

Animal tested last year on say 20th June and reading say on 23rd June. What is the expiry date for slaughter this year.

Factories operate a "no going home" policy on cattle presented.

There's info on the DAFM website about different scenarios where cattle sent are out of test.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2010/april/title,41953,en.html

Duke92 · 17-06-2020 11:57PM

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s no doubt we are price takers at farm level but the the correlation between weekly kill, currency fluctuation and market demand does not directly link to beef price, . How can every processor have identical processing costs and how is there none pushing for increasing output, improving efficiencies and ousting their competitors? Week on week perfect uniformity in pricing for the vast majority of cattle which are coming from hobby sized farmers.

A cartel if you will...

8 families control a billion euro industry.

We aren’t on our own with this situation but this is interesting
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-15/u-s-meat-giants-face-biggest-attack-in-century-from-trump-probe?fbclid=IwAR23rlf3dQccaQ94LpSgvyYN4Z5pOOuwvHm-uMIgMjSvNxPbvZ7j6BEhxgI

Yes it’s supply and demand
Milk the same there nearly all around a 1/2 a cent difference in price
Grain the same never much more than a few euro difference in price
That is life

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2020 12:09AM

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s no doubt we are price takers at farm level but the the correlation between weekly kill, currency fluctuation and market demand does not directly link to beef price, . How can every processor have identical processing costs and how is there none pushing for increasing output, improving efficiencies and ousting their competitors? Week on week perfect uniformity in pricing for the vast majority of cattle which are coming from hobby sized farmers.

A cartel if you will...

8 families control a billion euro industry.

We aren’t on our own with this situation but this is interesting
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-15/u-s-meat-giants-face-biggest-attack-in-century-from-trump-probe?fbclid=IwAR23rlf3dQccaQ94LpSgvyYN4Z5pOOuwvHm-uMIgMjSvNxPbvZ7j6BEhxgI

If you look at the Irish beef industry you have to wonder how four operators have gone from being fairly small businesses controling 60ish % if the Irish beef processing to companies that control over 80%of Irish processing, over 50% of the UK processing as well as processing on other parts of Europe. As well a couple of them have diversified into other sectors, property, medical and nursing homes.all this in an industry where margins are supposed to be wafer thin.

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2020 12:09AM

Duke92 wrote: »

Yes it’s supply and demand
Milk the same there nearly all around a 1/2 a cent difference in price
Grain the same never much more than a few euro difference in price
That is life

You are incorrect about milk

Duke92 · 18-06-2020 01:05AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are incorrect about milk

How

ruwithme · 18-06-2020 01:17AM

Duke92 wrote: »

How

Let him sleep Duke

Anto_Meath · 18-06-2020 05:51PM

Last year during the factory protests, I was saying it was the wrong thing to be doin as it was putting farmer against farmer. I think today hearing the stories about Larry I figured out how we can get at the factories. Investigate all the various companies they own, how they manage their taxes. As the saying goes follow the money. If farmers want better prices then we need to know where the money actually is. The one thing factory owners wouldnt like is their business dealings been investigated, if we can follow the money and start showing how the factory owners are abusing the system by tax avoidance then factories will be quick to up the quotes to keep farmers quite about their dealings.

Water John · 18-06-2020 08:26PM

Slaney looking for organic cattle esp Angus.

charolais0153 · 18-06-2020 09:11PM

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Last year during the factory protests, I was saying it was the wrong thing to be doin as it was putting farmer against farmer. I think today hearing the stories about Larry I figured out how we can get at the factories. Investigate all the various companies they own, how they manage their taxes. As the saying goes follow the money. If farmers want better prices then we need to know where the money actually is. The one thing factory owners wouldnt like is their business dealings been investigated, if we can follow the money and start showing how the factory owners are abusing the system by tax avoidance then factories will be quick to up the quotes to keep farmers quite about their dealings.

farmers would be able to investigate massive conpanies and shell companies etc while blaming factories for no profits in factories:')

Anto_Meath · 18-06-2020 09:21PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

farmers would be able to investigate massive conpanies and shell companies etc while blaming factories for no profits in factories:')

Farmers wouldnt but if the likes of beef plan & IFA put enough effort into it then tthey would, alot of this information is readly available through the likes of the CRO. A spot light on how Larry & his mates run their operations would pull them back into line somewhat. You can bet Larry isnt to happy with the IFJ tonight.

Anto_Meath · 18-06-2020 10:42PM

Information on various companies he owns, how 5 of the holding companies are registered in Luxembourg, have no employees yet makes millions in profits and I think only a few hundred thousand in tax. It also details some of the properties he own and the billions he is worth. But Larry is a very private individual so you can be sure he isn't happy to have this much information in the public and I would guess his whole business is like an onion lots of layers but once you start peeling you can get to the center of it if you try, so he will want a stop put to this quickly.

charolais0153 · 18-06-2020 11:08PM

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Information on various companies he owns, how 5 of the holding companies are registered in Luxembourg, have no employees yet makes millions in profits and I think only a few hundred thousand in tax. It also details some of the properties he own and the billions he is worth. But Larry is a very private individual so you can be sure he isn't happy to have this much information in the public and I would guess his whole business is like an onion lots of layers but once you start peeling you can get to the center of it if you try, so he will want a stop put to this quickly.

Is their anything illegal about that?

Anto_Meath · 18-06-2020 11:15PM

Ah Larry & his like are too clever to do anything that is illegal.. but tax avoidence does get the revenue interested in your affairs so that could cost him a few €€ to sort out.

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2020 11:18PM

Duke92 wrote: »

How

While the price of milk is often very close it is not always. This happens especially when prices get very strong or weak. As well with milk there is forward pricing so farmers can lock into these when they are available. There is also different conditions to supply by different processor's and these are constantly not trying to talk down the price of milk

Milk processor's are made up of a diverse mixture of entities. From small and large co-ops to MN companies. The co-ops have a transparent account structure and suppliers have an idea of the profitability of the sector. Kerry group have a commitment to pay a leading milk price this has forced it to pay a top price similar to a number of co-ops in West Cork that usually lead the pack. These co-ops have a very transparent account structure and are returning profits dividends as part of the milk price. Kerry group have to match that.

Another feature is milk price top ups or bonuses paid for product purchased by producer's. Finally there is not a special pricing arrangements for some suppliers which other producers do not have access to.

Just saw on the milk price thread difference between Dairygold and Carbery is 3c/L

I says · 19-06-2020 12:31AM

blue5000 wrote: »

I reckon every beef farmer, big or small is a hobby farmer, certainly not in it for the money at present anyway.

Expensive lawnmowers

Fireside Solicitor · 19-06-2020 08:41AM

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Information on various companies he owns, how 5 of the holding companies are registered in Luxembourg, have no employees yet makes millions in profits and I think only a few hundred thousand in tax. It also details some of the properties he own and the billions he is worth. But Larry is a very private individual so you can be sure he isn't happy to have this much information in the public and I would guess his whole business is like an onion lots of layers but once you start peeling you can get to the center of it if you try, so he will want a stop put to this quickly.

What he is no different to what all multinationals do. That’s why the EU are out to stamp out any differences between member states that allow you save because of different rules in different countries. Only problem is Ireland is going to lose if that happens.IFJ have it arseways as usual.

Fireside Solicitor · 19-06-2020 08:44AM

The reason Larry can pay a fortune in tax planning fees to KPMG is because he’s making a lot of profits in Ireland, UK, Poland and elsewhere from ABP and investments. Getting the Irish revenue to investigate will yield nothing as Ireland’s only a small piece of the jigsaw and they probably have investigated many times already. Only way is for Government to introduce price legislation.

Fireside Solicitor · 19-06-2020 09:12AM

Sure look at all the other business geniuses Ireland has - Dermot Desmond, John Magnier, Denis O’Brien, JP McManus, Michael Smurfit, Larry etc. One thing in common, according to similar media reporting they all engage in tax planning including living offshore. One rule for the rich....

wrangler · 19-06-2020 09:21AM

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Sure look at all the other business geniuses Ireland has - Dermot Desmond, John Magnier, Denis O’Brien, JP McManus, Michael Smurfit, Larry etc. One thing in common, according to similar media reporting they all engage in tax planning including living offshore. One rule for the rich....

They wouldn't stay in the country if it was any different....... where would you be then.
Same with price legislation , survival of the fittest is the way it has to be , other wise it'd be like the Civil service..... just because it's surviving doesn't mean it'd work in the real world

Fireside Solicitor · 19-06-2020 09:47AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

While the price of milk is often very close it is not always. This happens especially when prices get very strong or weak. As well with milk there is forward pricing so farmers can lock into these when they are available. There is also different conditions to supply by different processor's and these are constantly not trying to talk down the price of milk

Milk processor's are made up of a diverse mixture of entities. From small and large co-ops to MN companies. The co-ops have a transparent account structure and suppliers have an idea of the profitability of the sector. Kerry group have a commitment to pay a leading milk price this has forced it to pay a top price similar to a number of co-ops in West Cork that usually lead the pack. These co-ops have a very transparent account structure and are returning profits dividends as part of the milk price. Kerry group have to match that.

Another feature is milk price top ups or bonuses paid for product purchased by producer's. Finally there is not a special pricing arrangements for some suppliers which other producers do not have access to.

Just saw on the milk price thread difference between Dairygold and Carbery is 3c/L

And a lot of the older member suppliers of Kerry, Avonmore, Waterford, Golden Vale etc did very well out of their co-op shares getting them PLC shares. One Kerry man told me he made more out of the Kerry PLC share than a lifetime milking. On top of that Kerry were shareholders in IAWS PLC and they got a lump of shares out of that too. Great example in fairness to the sector for all the giving out about milk price tables

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2020 01:04PM

Jjameson wrote: »

If there was a greener field somewhere else they’d be there.

I always find it hard to understand lads making assumptions based of if's and but's. At the end of it we are about the 6th larges beef exporter in the world. The EU as whole exports less than 350 million tons outside it's borders, we export over 600 million tons out if Ireland, Poland has about 400 million tons export.

Most economic analyst's say that there is about 1% over production at present. It actually dropping. The assumption that Larry or other processor's will suddenly leave Ireland and it beef excess ( which has a top notch reputation) and replace all this product with Polish or Brazilian beef is mind boggling.

The other factor is knowing the ground. While money is mobile, wealth is not unless in a liquid form. As well local knowledge and contacts are critical in an business. Look at the way some business men only do well in certain area's. Tony O'Reilly was sharpest tool in the box at Heinz, he lost it all his wealth on bad business and investment decisions in Ireland. Denis O'Brien has made a fortune on Ireland his empire in the Carribbean is struggling. Move away from you area of operations and area of influence and you become vunerable. Ask Sean Quinn.

You are only the sharpest tool when you are in your own box

richie123 · 19-06-2020 01:36PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I always find it hard to understand lads making assumptions based of if's and but's. At the end of it we are about the 6th larges beef exporter in the world. The EU as whole exports less than 350 million tons outside it's borders, we export over 600 million tons out if Ireland, Poland has about 400 million tons export.

Most economic analyst's say that there is about 1% over production at present. It actually dropping. The assumption that Larry or other processor's will suddenly leave Ireland and it beef excess ( which has a top notch reputation) and replace all this product with Polish or Brazilian beef is mind boggling.

The other factor is knowing the ground. While money is mobile, wealth is not unless in a liquid form. As well local knowledge and contacts are critical in an business. Look at the way some business men only do well in certain area's. Tony O'Reilly was sharpest tool in the box at Heinz, he lost it all his wealth on bad business and investment decisions in Ireland. Denis O'Brien has made a fortune on Ireland his empire in the Carribbean is struggling. Move away from you area of operations and area of influence and you become vunerable. Ask Sean Quinn.

You are only the sharpest tool when you are in your own box

You have your export figures mixed up we export approx 550000 tonnes not 500 million.

wrangler · 19-06-2020 01:41PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I always find it hard to understand lads making assumptions based of if's and but's. At the end of it we are about the 6th larges beef exporter in the world. The EU as whole exports less than 350 million tons outside it's borders, we export over 600 million tons out if Ireland, Poland has about 400 million tons export.

Most economic analyst's say that there is about 1% over production at present. It actually dropping. The assumption that Larry or other processor's will suddenly leave Ireland and it beef excess ( which has a top notch reputation) and replace all this product with Polish or Brazilian beef is mind boggling.

The other factor is knowing the ground. While money is mobile, wealth is not unless in a liquid form. As well local knowledge and contacts are critical in an business. Look at the way some business men only do well in certain area's. Tony O'Reilly was sharpest tool in the box at Heinz, he lost it all his wealth on bad business and investment decisions in Ireland. Denis O'Brien has made a fortune on Ireland his empire in the Carribbean is struggling. Move away from you area of operations and area of influence and you become vunerable. Ask Sean Quinn.

You are only the sharpest tool when you are in your own box

I think you'll find that Irelands generous tax system is not only keeping millionaires here but attracting more as well.
Ireland has stood strong against EUs effort to change it for that reason

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2020 01:51PM

richie123 wrote: »

You have your export figures mixed up we export approx 550000 tonnes not 500 million.

I have the same mistake accriss the rest so figures are the same. We are still the 5/6 biggest exporter and Poland has 400k tons and the EU exports 350k tons. Same story just a decimal point in the wrong place on all figures

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2020 02:03PM

wrangler wrote: »

I think you'll find that Irelands generous tax system is not only keeping millionaires here but attracting more as well.
Ireland has stood strong against EUs effort to change it for that reason

What you said is rubbish.Ireland personal tax rates are highish and a lot more really wealthy individuals are tax exiles, Surmfit, O'Brien and McManus are all tax exiles as are a few more.yes corporate tax rates are low but that is to keep multi nationals happy.

And even with our so-called low rates Goodman, U2 and others use offshore companies to shelter corporate income. However you miss my point, Goodman and the other processor's are going nowhere just like Kerry Group and Glanbia's and the big baby formula producers like Nestle are staying in Ireland it where the product they want is. If they have to pay a few cent extra they will pass it on to there customers.

jfh · 19-06-2020 05:27PM

Lads, I sent off a lmxaa bullock few days, 26 months, graded r=5-, would that be because he was too fat?

tanko · 19-06-2020 05:50PM

jfh wrote: »

Lads, I sent off a lmxaa bullock few days, 26 months, graded r=5-, would that be because he was too fat?

Yeah 4+ in fat is the limit for the so called in spec payment.
He was good and fat alrite.
Did they cut your payment?

jfh · 19-06-2020 06:01PM

tanko wrote: »

Yeah 4+ in fat is the limit for the so called in spec payment.
He was good and fat alrite.
Did they cut your payment?

They sure did, 3.36 per kilo

jfh · 19-06-2020 06:02PM

jfh wrote: »

They sure did, 3.36 per kilo

He should have gone a month ago?

tanko · 19-06-2020 06:18PM

At least a month sooner i suppose. AA crosses don’t be long getting fat.

beef price tracker

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