Madeleine McCann

cnocbui · 18-06-2020 04:09PM

2u2me wrote: »

Not necessarily. The new 'evidence' we have, although no conclusive; is that the german authorities suspect CB who changed his licence plate the day after.

The other part of new information is that CB had a phone call for nearly 30 minutes shortly before this time(I'm not sure it has been reported exactly what time this phone call took place) but the police suspect this phone call has something to do with the disappearance; they must do if they are looking for information about it.

This surely implies a conspiracy :

And exactly what is this evidence you claim the Germans have?

I'm beginning to think the prosecutor might be grandstanding and blowing smoke rings. It seems incredibly unprofessional to publicise this before it has been thoroughly investigated. We have been down this new leads, promising suspect road too many times before.

MonsterCookie · 18-06-2020 04:58PM

i wonder what is the story with Clarence Mitchell?

he's generally seen as a spokesperson for the McCanns yet they have publicly stated this week that they do not have a spokesperson despite the fact that he has been on various channels purporting to speak for them.

hardly just a misunderstanding?

MonsterCookie · 18-06-2020 05:09PM

cnocbui wrote: »

And exactly what is this evidence you claim the Germans have?

I'm beginning to think the prosecutor might be grandstanding and blowing smoke rings. It seems incredibly unprofessional to publicise this before it has been thoroughly investigated. We have been down this new leads, promising suspect road too many times before.

I’d be surprised if it turned out there was nothing at all in what they have. They must have something solid enough to go public. If even guess they have more than they’re letting on as they want people to come forward with more evidence.

The pace this is moving at is frustrating though. They found the usb sticks in 2016!

2u2me · 18-06-2020 05:46PM

cnocbui wrote: »

And exactly what is this evidence you claim the Germans have?

I have no idea; perhaps others know more. I'm just betting on the fact that many careers would be ruined if this 'evidence' came to nothing.

TheW1zard · 18-06-2020 06:02PM

The Netflix series is given more credit than the parents police statements. Weird.

MonsterCookie · 18-06-2020 06:41PM

Someone on reddit translated an article from a German news outlet, if true it’s interesting and sickening;

“According to Police Saxe-Amhalt, quoted by Bild who quotes "Spiegel TV", investigators also found a pit in the grounds in which Bruckner had buried his dog, as well as a Lidl shopping bag that contained six USB-Sticks and two memory cards, which contained some 8000 images and videos of severe sexual abuse of babies, toddlers, children and teenagers. The metadata of some correspond to those of Bruckner´s camera. In ca 100 images, Bruckner himself can be seen”

segosego89 · 18-06-2020 06:59PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Someone on reddit translated an article from a German news outlet, if true it’s interesting and sickening;

“According to Police Saxe-Amhalt, quoted by Bild who quotes "Spiegel TV", investigators also found a pit in the grounds in which Bruckner had buried his dog, as well as a Lidl shopping bag that contained six USB-Sticks and two memory cards, which contained some 8000 images and videos of severe sexual abuse of babies, toddlers, children and teenagers. The metadata of some correspond to those of Bruckner´s camera. In ca 100 images, Bruckner himself can be seen”

Considering the German prosecutor stated they have no "forensic evidence" yet at the same time they have "concrete evidence" is it likely that the "concrete evidence" they have is either photos or videos of Madeleine with Christian Brueckner in view in some of the photos? How else would they be so confident that she has been murdered unless they found images of Brueckner being with Madeleine on one of his USB keys?

What other kind of "concrete evidence" would the Germans have if they don't have any access to Madeleine's DNA samples or no forensic evidence?

dark crystal · 18-06-2020 07:26PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Someone on reddit translated an article from a German news outlet, if true it’s interesting and sickening;

“According to Police Saxe-Amhalt, quoted by Bild who quotes "Spiegel TV", investigators also found a pit in the grounds in which Bruckner had buried his dog, as well as a Lidl shopping bag that contained six USB-Sticks and two memory cards, which contained some 8000 images and videos of severe sexual abuse of babies, toddlers, children and teenagers. The metadata of some correspond to those of Bruckner´s camera. In ca 100 images, Bruckner himself can be seen”

Evil ba*tard. Whether he's guilty of abducting Madeleine or not (and going by what this scum seemingly got up to, you'd really hope not), he should be locked up for the rest of his miserable life. :mad:

Babooshka · 18-06-2020 07:28PM

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Someone on reddit translated an article from a German news outlet, if true it’s interesting and sickening;

“According to Police Saxe-Amhalt, quoted by Bild who quotes "Spiegel TV", investigators also found a pit in the grounds in which Bruckner had buried his dog, as well as a Lidl shopping bag that contained six USB-Sticks and two memory cards, which contained some 8000 images and videos of severe sexual abuse of babies, toddlers, children and teenagers. The metadata of some correspond to those of Bruckner´s camera. In ca 100 images, Bruckner himself can be seen”

This was found in 2016, as someone's already said earlier

Edit: I'm pretty sure it was you who said it?

MonsterCookie · 18-06-2020 07:32PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Evil ba*tard. Whether he's guilty of abducting Madeleine or not (and going by what this scum seemingly got up to, you'd really hope not), he should be locked up for the rest of his miserable life. :mad:

Exactly - even though we’re hoping for closure, knowing what he might have done to her would be or will be awful.

MonsterCookie · 18-06-2020 07:34PM

Babooshka wrote: »

This was found in 2016, as someone's already said earlier

Edit: I'm pretty sure it was you who said it?

Yeah - i did say that. It seems to have taken a long time. Didn’t realize until now how it links back to him i.e. metadata from his camera, and he’s in some of the images.

limnam · 18-06-2020 07:34PM

cnocbui wrote: »

A six year old girl in the UK was kidnapped from her bath while her mother cooked supper in the kitchen, she was driven a good distance away and raped and was then dumped naked in the snow, in an ally.

I blame the perpetrator, not the mother for being inattentive. If harm came to Madeline in a similar way, I would blame the perpetrator. There have been cases in Australia and the US, worldwide I'm sure, of children coming to similar harm by evil men who broke in to their homes.

Personally, I think blaming anyone other than the perpetrators is fatuous and unproductive.

why are you comparing a loving mother cooking her daughter her supper at home to two negligent selfish creatures who chose drinking with their friends over their kids safety.

Nonsense stuff.

ronivek · 18-06-2020 07:35PM

Again; it's likely the term "concrete evidence" here isn't being used in any legal sense. You can claim anything that exists as "concrete evidence" of something; but it doesn't mean it actually holds up to any kind of scrutiny. He could be calling witness testimony from some drunk in a bar referencing something that was said as "concrete evidence".

segosego89 · 18-06-2020 07:37PM

They found little girl swimsuits in Christian Brueckner's motorhome in Germany:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8428843/Madeleine-McCann-suspects-motorhome-contained-stash-girls-swimming-costumes.html

As stated in the article, Brueckner does not have any children of his own.

Maybe there were photos of Madeleine on his USB keys wearing a couple of different swimsuits that he had purchased for her to wear? And then at a later date the very same swimsuits that she had been forced to wear when he had initially kidnapped her were found in his motorhome? He may have kept the swimsuits as souvenirs? Obviously this is total speculation on my part but maybe this is part of their "concrete evidence"?

segosego89 · 18-06-2020 07:43PM

ronivek wrote: »

Again; it's likely the term "concrete evidence" here isn't being used in any legal sense. You can claim anything that exists as "concrete evidence" of something; but it doesn't mean it actually holds up to any kind of scrutiny. He could be calling witness testimony from some drunk in a bar referencing something that was said as "concrete evidence".

I don't think a public prosecutor would announce publicly for the world to hear that they have "concrete evidence" that Madeleine was murdered based on flimsy testimony etc.

They wouldn't have announced these things unless they could back up there claim that Madeleine had been murdered. The German authorities would never set themselves up to be embarrassed at a later date. What would their ulterior motive be to use the term "concrete evidence" unless they genuinely had very good evidence that backed their statements?

ronivek · 18-06-2020 08:57PM

segosego89 wrote: »

I don't think a public prosecutor would announce publicly for the world to hear that they have "concrete evidence" that Madeleine was murdered based on flimsy testimony etc.

They wouldn't have announced these things unless they could back up there claim that Madeleine had been murdered. The German authorities would never set themselves up to be embarrassed at a later date. What would their ulterior motive be to use the term "concrete evidence" unless they genuinely had very good evidence that backed their statements?

That would have been my feeling too until things developed.

They initially said she was definitely dead, then they said she might be still alive, then they went back to dead again. If they could back up the claim with "concrete evidence" why would they then roll it back?

They also differentiated between forensic and concrete evidence; so we know it's not DNA or fingerprints or any actual physical evidence directly from Madeleine.

They refuse to give details of the evidence to even the family; which makes you wonder if it was something like footage or photographs then surely they would be the only people who could confirm that it would indeed be Madeleine.

So what does that actually leave?

Also we're talking about a German prosecutor; I have no idea how he might translate terms which have a legal bearing in German courts and press releases to English phrases we would be more accustomed to.

In any event I very much hope I'm wrong and they genuinely do have good evidence which will give the McCann's some peace; but they way it has been handled thus far doesn't really give me much hope.

Sweet.Science · 18-06-2020 09:03PM

ronivek wrote: »

That would have been my feeling too until things developed.

They initially said she was definitely dead, then they said she might be still alive, then they went back to dead again. If they could back up the claim with "concrete evidence" why would they then roll it back?

They also differentiated between forensic and concrete evidence; so we know it's not DNA or fingerprints or any actual physical evidence directly from Madeleine.

They refuse to give details of the evidence to even the family; which makes you wonder if it was something like footage or photographs then surely they would be the only people who could confirm that it would indeed be Madeleine.

So what does that actually leave?

Also we're talking about a German prosecutor; I have no idea how he might translate terms which have a legal bearing in German courts and press releases to English phrases we would be more accustomed to.

In any event I very much hope I'm wrong and they genuinely do have good evidence which will give the McCann's some peace; but they way it has been handled thus far doesn't really give me much hope.

Yeah. One one hand he's a criminal mastermind who can abduct a child and leave without a trace

On the other we are to believe he told his ex girlfriend he had a horrible job that day . Then disappear the day after she went missing. Not the cleverest thing to do

Find it hard to believe . If so , the girlfriend is another one we can add to the odious list for not reporting it asap

segosego89 · 18-06-2020 09:16PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Yeah. One one hand he's a criminal mastermind who can abduct a child and leave without a trace

On the other we are to believe he told his ex girlfriend he had a horrible job that day . Then disappear the day after she went missing. Not the cleverest thing to do

Find it hard to believe . If so , the girlfriend is another one we can add to the odious list for not reporting it asap

Who said that he told his girlfriend what he was planning to do? Saying that you have a "horrible job today" to someone is a bit ambiguous. It could mean anything? He did odd jobs didn't he?

He may not have planned the abduction at all. He may have just intended to burglarize the apartment at first and then came across Madeleine in her bed and decided to kidnap her almost on a whim. Perhaps he did plan the abduction totally.

Sweet.Science · 18-06-2020 09:19PM

segosego89 wrote: »

Who said that he told his girlfriend what he was planning to do? Saying that you have a "horrible job today" to someone is a bit ambiguous. It could mean anything? He did odd jobs didn't he?

He may not have planned the abduction at all. He may have just intended to burglarize the apartment at first and then came across Madeleine in her bed and decided to kidnap her almost on a whim. Perhaps he did plan the abduction totally.

A robbery of an apartment . Especially a couple on holidays. That isn't going to be the most lucrative job in the world . Hardly life changing like he stated .

Also if it was just a robbery and he just happened to then she her an abduct her . Well that's just some luck on his part isnt it . That he could take her . She wouldn't wake up . Nobody would witness it etc

SusieBlue · 18-06-2020 09:25PM

He could very well have left a trace in the apartment but the crime scene wasn’t preserved, and any evidence left behind was contaminated.
13 sets of unidentified finger prints were found in the apartment but they were so contaminated they couldn’t be tested. One of these could very well have been CB.

He could have just been very ‘lucky’ (I hate to use that word in this context) that the evidence of his crime was destroyed by all the people in and out of the apartment trying to help in the subsequent hours after Madeleine disappeared.

segosego89 · 18-06-2020 09:27PM

Yeah....I don't know why he said that it is theoretically for her to be still alive after saying that they had concrete evidence that she is dead.

Maybe another way of putting what they meant is they have concrete evidence that suggests that she is dead but they need forensic evidence to confirm this? Maybe that's why the German prosecutor felt comfortable to say that it was theoretically possible for her to be still alive.

They refuse to give details of the evidence to even the family; which makes you wonder if it was something like footage or photographs then surely they would be the only people who could confirm that it would indeed be Madeleine

Maybe they don't want to show the photos to the family until they have more evidence?

segosego89 · 18-06-2020 09:35PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

A robbery of an apartment . Especially a couple on holidays. That isn't going to be the most lucrative job in the world . Hardly life changing like he stated .

Also if it was just a robbery and he just happened to then she her an abduct her . Well that's just some luck on his part isnt it . That he could take her . She wouldn't wake up . Nobody would witness it etc

I read somewhere that he used money that he had gotten from burglaries to purchase cannabis at wholesale prices and then sell it to make a significant profit. This could be what he meant by "life changing".

Banana Republic. · 18-06-2020 09:47PM

segosego89 wrote: »

Who said that he told his girlfriend what he was planning to do? Saying that you have a "horrible job today" to someone is a bit ambiguous. It could mean anything? He did odd jobs didn't he?

He may not have planned the abduction at all. He may have just intended to burglarize the apartment at first and then came across Madeleine in her bed and decided to kidnap her almost on a whim. Perhaps he did plan the abduction totally.

I think you are being very naive. Horrible job was hardly unblocked a toilet, this fella by all accounts is a sick puppy and add everything that happened then I doubt he changed the reg of his car because he done a crap nixer. This theory of he came across the child and thought Oh my lucky day I’ll take a kid like some jewellery lying around, I just can’t believe that for one second (few general theories not just yours) The Story from the girl who was subjected to his rape shows how meticulous this guy is.

ittakestwo · 18-06-2020 10:39PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

A robbery of an apartment . Especially a couple on holidays. That isn't going to be the most lucrative job in the world . Hardly life changing like he stated .

Also if it was just a robbery and he just happened to then she her an abduct her . Well that's just some luck on his part isnt it . That he could take her . She wouldn't wake up . Nobody would witness it etc

Most likely it was not the first time the person robbed an apartment. Perhaps an opportunity to kidnap emerged in a previous robbery but was not taken as was not planned for Perhaps after they thought about the missed opportunity and how they could have got away, so when another opportunity came with Madeline they took it.

I dont think alot/most kids wouldn't wake if lifted gently out of bed while asleep. It's very believable that a robber could go into and take a kid without causing mush disturbances. Particularly if it was someone like CB who was a professional robber.

Praia de Luz is very small. Population of 2500. At 10pm they could have left and got into a car parked discreetly close to the apartment and not have been noticed. Lucky but far from unbelievable.

Banana Republic. · 18-06-2020 11:07PM

ittakestwo wrote: »

Most likely it was not the first time the person robbed an apartment. Perhaps an opportunity to kidnap emerged in a previous robbery but was not taken as was not planned for Perhaps after they thought about the missed opportunity and how they could have got away, so when another opportunity came with Madeline they took it.

I dont think alot/most kids would wake if lifted gently out of bed while asleep. It's very believable that a robber could go into and take a kid without causing mush disturbances. Particularly if it was someone like CB who was a professional robber.

Praia de Luz is very small. Population of 2500. At 10pm they could have left and got into a car parked discreetly close to the apartment and not have been noticed. Lucky but far from unbelievable.

I can’t believe anyone came along to run an apartment but left with a child never to be seen again in the next 13 years. That’s a hell of a run of luck there. I can’t fathom it was opportunistic to suddenly in a split second go oh I’ll take this child and then instead of leaving the apartment with money and goods to whatever car he was escaping in. Think of it like this it is a very very low percentage of happening. If anything it was planned to a tee from the reports of Christian B’s behavior.

ittakestwo · 18-06-2020 11:46PM

Banana Republic. wrote: »

I can’t believe anyone came along to run an apartment but left with a child never to be seen again in the next 13 years. That’s a hell of a run of luck there. I can’t fathom it was opportunistic to suddenly in a split second go oh I’ll take this child and then instead of leaving the apartment with money and goods to whatever car he was escaping in. Think of it like this it is a very very low percentage of happening. If anything it was planned to a tee from the reports of Christian B’s behavior.

If it was planned it could have been only planned that week. How was any kidnapper to know that there would be a couple staying there that week and leaving their kids alone at night.

Who ever did this did have luck. Even for the people who think the McCann's did it. They would have needed a lot of luck to get away with it. I would guess it was a planned robbery. Either before hand or during the robbery they became aware that there was children alone and took the opportunity.

If CB was in the area of Praia de Luz in the days Madeleine was kidnapped then that is obviously very significant.... A known pedophile who robs apartments for a living happens to be in the same small village as Madeleine at the time a she goes missing from her apartment. I know who my money would be on.

irishproduce · 19-06-2020 12:06AM

The pit where the usb stuff was found, was that in Portugal or Germany?

segosego89 · 19-06-2020 12:44AM

irishproduce wrote: »

The pit where the usb stuff was found, was that in Portugal or Germany?

It was in Germany. He owned a derelict factory in Germany where he would store his white campervan(a white Allegro Bay RV he had bought in early 2010). Apparently he would drive the van to Portugal and Spain and back to Germany regularly. He made money selling drugs I think and I believe that was one of the reasons he used the campervan in order to smuggle narcotics.

The USB sticks were buried underneath the body of his dead dog at the factory.

Also, police found little girl swimsuits in the campervan. Here's the link to this information: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12340797

segosego89 · 19-06-2020 12:49AM

ittakestwo wrote: »

If it was planned it could have been only planned that week. How was any kidnapper to know that there would be a couple staying there that week and leaving their kids alone at night.

Who ever did this did have luck. Even for the people who think the McCann's did it. They would have needed a lot of luck to get away with it. I would guess it was a planned robbery. Either before hand or during the robbery they became aware that there was children alone and took the opportunity.

If CB was in the area of Praia de Luz in the days Madeleine was kidnapped then that is obviously very significant.... A known pedophile who robs apartments for a living happens to be in the same small village as Madeleine at the time a she goes missing from her apartment. I know who my money would be on.

Yes I would place my money on CB also.

However I remember reading that it was found that that area of Portugal contained quite a number of paedophiles and sex offenders when the police in Portugal were conducting their investigation initially.

However, a known paedo who also happens to burglarize apartments narrows down the suspects.

Ardillaun · 19-06-2020 03:31AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

He could very well have left a trace in the apartment but the crime scene wasn’t preserved, and any evidence left behind was contaminated.
13 sets of unidentified finger prints were found in the apartment but they were so contaminated they couldn’t be tested. One of these could very well have been CB.

He could have just been very ‘lucky’ (I hate to use that word in this context) that the evidence of his crime was destroyed by all the people in and out of the apartment trying to help in the subsequent hours after Madeleine disappeared.

The local police don’t seem to have done a great job. Assuming it is him for a minute, like many repeat offenders he was experienced and well prepared but had a bit of luck too.

Madeleine McCann

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