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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck [Part 2] (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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  • 16-06-2020 12:17am
    #1
    Tokyo
    Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Continuation of the previous thread here.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058081445



    Admin Note (03-06-20):

    There are pages of backhanded swipes in this thread in the past day, enough that I was considering just purging the last 6 hours of posts.

    From here on in, any backhanded comments or swipes towards each other will be met with an immediate card (yellow or red, depending on the severity), and a threadban. Outright insults will be met with a week long forum ban.


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    #2
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The claim in the 13th that you are parroting is that Nixon's "war on drugs" was in fact a "war on race" so easily disproven.

    Viewers can discern for themselves whether what Ehrlichman said is a fair or unfair summation of Nixon’s war on drugs policy. That said, the quote from John Ehrlichman is a verified statement by the man. That is not in dispute, the quote is a matter of record.

    Originally when I suggested people watch it it was with a view we could critique the content, so if you want to expand into whether Nixon’s war on drugs was racist it seems like it would be illuminating and fitting conversation.


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    #3
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    It is a perfectly valid statement, but then to present it as fact in a narrative(in the 13th) is disingenuous to say the least, without offering the balance that Ehrlichman has every reason to lie. I've seen things banned on youtube for less.
    But Ehrlichman's claim is likely an oversimplification, according to historians who have studied the period and Nixon's drug policies in particular.

    There's evidence that Ehrlichman felt bitter and betrayed by Nixon after he spent time in prison over the Watergate scandal.

    More importantly, Nixon's drug policies did not focus on the kind of criminalization that Ehrlichman described.

    None of that means that the drug war hasn't disproportionately hurt black Americans. It clearly has. But the lessons of Nixon's drug policies may not be so much that he was a racist, power-hungry politician — although, again, he was — but rather that even well-meaning policies can have big, terrible unintended consequences.
    Vox(Far left source)

    That the 13th then use this claim by Ehrlichman as fact is bordering of obfuscating the truth. Their whole narrative is built upon this.

    The truth is Nixon's policies had widespread support left and right because of riots like we're seeing. They were happy with more crackdown on drugs afterwards, this has led to more terrible consequences we've seen today. But to say it was a war on blacks is just disgustingly inaccurate.


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    #4
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    2u2me wrote: »
    It is a perfectly valid statement, but then to present it as fact in a narrative(in the 13th) is disingenuous to say the least, without offering the balance that Ehrlichman has every reason to lie. I've seen things banned on youtube for less.


    Vox(Far left source)

    That the 13th then use this claim by Ehrlichman as fact is bordering of obfuscating the truth. Their whole narrative is built upon this.

    The truth is Nixon's policies had widespread support left and right because of riots like we're seeing. They were happy with more crackdown on drugs afterwards, this has led to more terrible consequences we've seen today. But to say it was a war on blacks is just disgustingly inaccurate.

    Nothing about the popularity of Nixon’s policies actually seems to logically invalidate what Ehrlichman is saying. Cant reasonable people agree that one of the consequences of this policy was disproportionate incarcerations in black communities given the structure of the criminal penalties and schedules? (Nevermind the fact that the police down south in the Nixon era were unquestionably racist by institution, look for example at segregation/de-segregation era Alabama). If you want to argue there’s no way to know Nixon’s real intent: that’s fine, but it was also a bipartisan effort as you say, and you cannot convince me that racists were not all aboard it.


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    #5
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    "A 911 dispatcher called a Minneapolis Police sergeant over her concern of the way officers were handling the deadly arrest of George Floyd Memorial Day night, according to newly released data from the Minneapolis Police Department.

    In the phone call with the sergeant, the dispatcher said she was watching the arrest on a live camera feed outside Cup Foods."

    https://www.fox9.com/news/you-can-call-me-a-snitch-if-you-want-911-dispatcher-concerned-about-george-floyd-arrest-called-mpd-sergeant


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    #6
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    "A 911 dispatcher called a Minneapolis Police sergeant over her concern of the way officers were handling the deadly arrest of George Floyd Memorial Day night, according to newly released data from the Minneapolis Police Department.

    In the phone call with the sergeant, the dispatcher said she was watching the arrest on a live camera feed outside Cup Foods."

    https://www.fox9.com/news/you-can-call-me-a-snitch-if-you-want-911-dispatcher-concerned-about-george-floyd-arrest-called-mpd-sergeant

    Surely all body cameras should be recording and trasmitting all the time. It's a shame that the protestors are calling body cameras racist and they want to eradicate them. Seems to be a backwards step. The more people that know the better.


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    #7
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Overheal wrote: »
    Cant reasonable people agree that one of the consequences of this policy was disproportionate incarcerations in black communities given the structure of the criminal penalties and schedules?

    For sure, but to focus on this racial disparity as the overarching narrative is not helping anybody. It affects everybody, however unequally.
    This war on blacks crap is just not helpful, not useful, and not true however much it was implemented by racist individuals, and disproportionately affected black and latino people. That's why the narrative of the wire so many people rate so highly; because they genuinely address the roots of these causes. It's not just 'because racism'.

    We need to learn the lesson that sweeping changes may have unintended consequences. (Defunding the police is literally the worst idea ever).

    "What began as a war on drugs against dangerous narcotics is now a war against the under-class" David Simon(creator:The Wire)


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    #8
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    2u2me wrote: »
    Surely all body cameras should be recording and trasmitting all the time. It's a shame that the protestors are calling body cameras racist and they want to eradicate them. Seems to be a backwards step. The more people that know the better.

    Don't think that was the point of the article (also think she was watching from a cam on the street), what I'm curious about she is saying you can call me a "snitch" if you want, but there is something going on at cups food.
    She's deliberately getting in contact with the Sargent to say she's seeing something that's not right, is trying to defend herself straight off the bat, weird comment to make for me.

    I wouldn't be in favour of bodycams being ditched at all, not something I would advocate or ascribe as positive.


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    #9
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    what I'm curious about she is saying you can call me a "snitch" if you want, but there is something going on at cups food.
    She's deliberately getting in contact with the Sargent to say she's seeing something that's not right, is trying to defend herself straight off the bat, weird comment to make for me.

    I believe the 'snitches get stiches' culture is prevalent in the police forces, it's why they are so resistant to change. It also pops up in schools, prisons, gang culture.
    Fair play to that lady for making a call and standing up for what she believed in.

    I don't think it has anything to do with Cup's foods in particular. Sure look at Snowden he's still being hunted.


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    #10
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    2u2me wrote: »
    Surely all body cameras should be recording and trasmitting all the time. It's a shame that the protestors are calling body cameras racist and they want to eradicate them. Seems to be a backwards step. The more people that know the better.




    Exactly.


    If the whole police force is as systematically racist as some would have us believe, then all the more reason to keep bodycams and record incidents.


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    #11
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    who's calling for body cams to be dropped?


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    #12
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    who's calling for body cams to be dropped?

    Don't know. Here's the list of demands from at least one group

    So what does Campaign Zero want? Here’s their list:

    End Broken-Windows Policing
    Community Oversight
    Limit Use of Force
    Independent Investigations and Prosecutions
    Community Representation
    Body Cams/Film the Police
    End Policing for Profit
    Training
    Demilitarization
    Fair Police Union Contracts

    Here's another report
    But tactical differences have emerged between different camps of activists in the seven years since Black Lives Matter first became a national rallying cry. Some activists have adopted a reformist approach, pushing successfully to equip cops with body cameras, require implicit-bias training and encourage community policing.

    Maybe others here will post a link to where a significant group within the BLM movement want cameras banned.


  • Options
    #13
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    who's calling for body cams to be dropped?

    Demand #7 here was brought up in discussion a while back in other thread.
    An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).

    https://archive.fo/dGyqs#selection-423.0-423.219


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    #14
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    2u2me wrote: »
    Demand #7 here was brought up in discussion a while back in other thread.

    https://archive.fo/dGyqs#selection-423.0-423.219

    I’m not sure what the abbreviated system is but iirc this may be referring to stuff more akin to

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03228-6

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/business/facial-recognition-software-controversy.html

    Was just reading a report actually earlier that companies have been tracking how many people go to what denomination of church, how many are registered to vote, whether they went to a political rally or a protest, etc.

    https://gizmodo.com/voter-registration-groups-targeted-black-lives-matter-p-1844044299

    There are years old reports about criminal justice scoring systems being discriminatory as well

    https://www.wired.com/2017/04/courts-using-ai-sentence-criminals-must-stop-now/

    https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3972&context=dlj

    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/06/03/1002589/technology-perpetuates-racism-by-design-simulmatics-charlton-mcilwain/

    It sounds more so the above issues than having a silent witness during violent altercations with police etc.


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    #15
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    joe also referenced blm having it in their manifesto

    post #8728 in the first thread


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    #16
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Imho the demand against surveillance it looks more like speaking out against algorithmic sentencing and pre-crime deep-learning AI.

    It’s easy to justify deep learning AI and better data collection by police to predict some things though. There’s researchers at clemson (I’ve seen them in symposium) that are using deep learning to analyze traffic accident data to model and predict accident probabilities in conjunction with big data (tapping into IBM and other data to find similarities and patterns across all sorts of data sets like weather and holidays etc). The goal though is to design safer roadways and prevent root causes, not maximize ticket revenues - but anyone could certainly design software to optimize police deployments for ticket revenues, too. It’s only a question of morals. Should we be maximizing arrests or minimizing emergencies?

    The problem I see with predicting crimes vs predicting accidents is that driving behaviors change much less frequently than social behaviors, and you’re left to question how many decades of data the system accounts for. For example if Mineapolis restructures and theres a civilian review board, buy-in from the community etc. you may see a shift in police behaviors anyway if working from a clean slate but if you used a police data set from decades of past problems on tribulations with police and the public well then you’re basically saying “that neighborhood has always been criminal and will always remain criminal” - which to me is a flawed way to think. Makes me wonder how eg. Colorado’s data would be skewed after legalization of marijuana? Would they still be over policing neighborhoods with a high rate of drug related offenses?


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    #17
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Justin Credible Darts wrote: »
    joe also referenced blm having it in their manifesto

    post #8728 in the first thread

    That post doesn't refer to any link. Here is what it says.
    Yeah I agree, I was surprised to see the BLM manifesto looking for body cams to be discontinued.
    They're only effective if police aren't allowed to conceal or not release footage after an incident.

    I'm not saying this is the BLM Manifesto, but the site implies it is.
    Black Lives Matter (BLM), the activist group that campaigns against police brutality and racial injustice, have just come out with their plan to help fix the issues that plague police forces up and down the country.

    Their plan – “Campaign Zero?? – focuses on 10 points where they would like the law to change. They believe that these changes will help stop racial profiling and lessen the dangers everyday citizens face when dealing with the police.

    To get an idea of what they are asking for we thought we’d provide a breakdown of their plan:

    1. End “broken windows” policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones.
    a. “Broken windows?? policing is the idea that vigorously enforcing small crimes (like vandalism) will prevent larger crimes from happening. This law has allowed police to increase “stop and frisks??, which BLM claims enables racial stereotyping. They argue that Black men and women are unfairly targeted by police using this law as an excuse, and that this policy ultimately led to the death of Eric Garner (remember the guy that was choked to death after he was caught selling loose cigarettes). This is their first point in their plan, and probably the most controversial.

    2. Use community oversight for misconduct rather than having the police department decide what consequences officers should face.
    a. Rather than the police deciding how an officer is punished after they’ve committed a crime (like when an officer who caused a death is ‘punished’ by being put on paid leave for six months), they want an independent group to review all cases and dole out the punishments. Since, you know, the police department might be a tad on biased.

    3. Make standards for reporting police use of deadly force.
    a. A lot of reports of police using deadly force aren’t released to the public. This skews the statistics when it comes down to who died by police hands and it leaves the public in the dark about how the police operate. BLM want to standardize the reporting methods and make the whole process more transparent.

    4. Independently investigate and prosecute police misconduct.
    a. Much like point two, BLM doesn’t want the police investigating crimes committed by the police since it’s proven to be a recipe for trouble. Instead, they want an independently run government body to investigate whether or not an officer has violated the law. The short version: if a cop shoots someone, someone other than the cops should look into the case to see if that shooting was lawful.

    5. Have the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve.
    a. This one is simple enough to ask for, harder to carry out in practice. BLM want the police force to be racially representative of the areas they protect. If a community is 50% Black, 30% Hispanic, and 20% White, they want to see a police force that reflects those demographics. Hypothetically, for every two White officers they’d hire, they’d also hire five Black officers and three Hispanic officers.

    6. Require officers to wear body cameras.
    a. This policy has already been implemented in several different police forces across the country – and with great success in some cases. However, the debate starts when it comes down to when and why an officer can turn the camera off. For example, you wouldn’t want people watching you when you went for a piss, would you?

    7. Provide more training for police officers.
    a. More training is never a bad thing. Many supporters of BLM believe that a lot of the issues between police officers and citizens have been instigated by rookie cops that are a little too eager to prove themselves in the field, and they feel a little extra training could help that out.

    8. End for-profit policing practices.
    a. This is a biggie. As of now, the police can legally take any money or property that they “believe?? is in some way linked to a crime, and they can use that money and property as they see fit, even if you’re never convicted of that crime. It’s called Civil Forfeiture and the police in many areas have used this “right?? to fund their own agencies and precincts. This is a major issue, and many people from different walks of life see it as legalized robbery. For more information check out John Oliver’s take on it, as he explains it far more eloquently than I ever could.

    9. End the police use of military equipment.
    a. BLM argues that the police should be working with the community to provide peaceful resolutions to society’s issues and that the use of military equipment shows an intent to abuse their power over citizens. It drives home the Us vs Them mentality. Big guns and body armour = scared citizens. Open dialogue and transparency = happy citizens.

    10. Implement police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct.
    a. So, police unions have a history of protecting police (shocking, I know). Police officers accused of misconduct are no exception, but other members are often discouraged by their unions to speak out against those accused. This can delay convictions and stop valuable information or evidence from coming to light which prevents real justice. While the police need unions to protect their rights, BLM argue that the unions should play their part in weeding out the bad apples. If not, the abuse of power will continue because the bad officers know they can get away with it.


    If it is, Point 6 would indicate they are most definitely not calling for the removal of cameras.


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    #18
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://twitter.com/meganrabundis/status/1272712681275842560?s=21



    ^ the above account was tweeting videos of this whole protest, in the tweet thread

    https://twitter.com/bill_maxwell_/status/1272738472277622784?s=21

    They call themselves the New Mexico Civil Guard for Curry County.

    Their mission: Defend citizens and their private property.

    "We will not allow businesses in our community to be put through the pain we've seen nationwide," their Facebook page reads.

    "The protests are necessary, we fully understand that, and to an extent the violence is necessary, but we will not allow that violence to be directed at our citizens and their property."

    The group, headed up locally by painter O'Rion Petty, made itself known publicly for the first time Wednesday night on the perimeter of a "Clovis Vigil for George Floyd" gathering in Greene Acres Park.

    Photos on social media show eight men, many of them heavily armed with what appear to be bullet-proof vests.

    But Petty said he wants to be clear the group is here to protect peaceful people and property, not to start anything.

    He said they plan to be more visible tonight when a second discussion about community racism is planned for 5:30 p.m. to 7 p.m. at Greene Acres.
    "We're not against the protesters or whatever you want to call them," said Petty, who is the group's captain. "We're not there to intimidate the protesters or anything like that. We're not with antifa. We're there because of everything that's going on (around the country) and we're not going to watch our community be destroyed, if it comes to that."

    s_topTEMP350x700-3406.jpeg

    Article posted less than two weeks ago, longer than I quoted by a lot

    https://www.easternnewmexiconews.com/story/2020/06/03/news/nm-civil-guard-at-protests-to-defend-citizens-property/165811.html

    Now see ^ that’s an organization. Take notes class.


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    #19
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Jon Stewart popped back in from the wilderness:

    “I’d like to say I’m surprised by what happened to [George Floyd], but I’m not. This is a cycle, and I feel that in some ways, the issue is that we’re addressing the wrong problem. We continue to make this about the police — the how of it. How can they police? Is it about sensitivity and de-escalation training and community policing? All that can make for a less-egregious relationship between the police and people of color. But the how isn’t as important as the why, which we never address. The police are a reflection of a society. They’re not a rogue alien organization that came down to torment the black community. They’re enforcing segregation. Segregation is legally over, but it never ended. The police are, in some respects, a border patrol, and they patrol the border between the two Americas. We have that so that the rest of us don’t have to deal with it. Then that situation erupts, and we express our shock and indignation. But if we don’t address the anguish of a people, the pain of being a people who built this country through forced labor — people say, ‘‘I’m tired of everything being about race.’’ Well, imagine how [expletive] exhausting it is to live that.”

    More extensive interview in link

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/15/magazine/jon-stewart-interview.html


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Someone posted in the other thread that

    "The American penal system is well known to be barbaric. It is just another example where the rest of the developed world have moved on and progressed while America is still regressive."

    In general I agree but at a gut instinct level I feel good that someone like Ted Bundy doesn't get the right to breathe oxygen that he denied his many victims.

    And I also think about someone like Larry Murphy out and about on the streets.

    It is more nuanced but there is a part of me that favours the American system sometimes. Pity we can't pick and choose on a case by case basis.


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    #21
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Can't recall the posters name, calling the medical examiner that did the second autopsy a "charlatan", clarification was asked none provided iirc.

    "In fact, according to forensic pathologists and medical experts, the two autopsy reports aren’t actually all that different in their conclusions. “They are just different ways of describing the same thing,” said Dr. Joye Carter, forensic pathologist to the sheriff of San Luis Obispo County, California. What’s more, experts told me, the autopsies of George Floyd help show the complexity of medical examinations, how those examinations work and what they can and cannot tell us.

    Some of the public confusion over Floyd’s autopsy reports can be blamed on misinterpretation by the media and the public, said Dr. Judy Melinek, a San Francisco-based forensic pathologist . “Anybody suggesting asphyxia was ruled out by the medical examiner is wrong,” she said."

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-two-autopsies-of-george-floyd-arent-as-different-as-they-seem/

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/george-floyds-autopsy-and-the-structural-gaslighting-of-america/

    The second link is within the first link, the sentence.. "the two autopsy reports aren’t actually all that different in their conclusions"

    I'll admit, I was lead to believe they were different myself, can the OP and the claim of "charlatan" provide evidence when both are confirming that it was the restraint used, the knee on the kneck and chest that killed George.

    https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913

    Also another good read from a link from the first one "the cause of death is police restraint".. it states from the moment it appears George loses consciousness to when Derek removes his knee is nearing 4 minutes, the first pulse taken to when the knee was removed was nearly 1 minute..

    "Floyd first appears to become unresponsive at 4:01. He stops talking, his eyes close, and his face is still. Bystanders start noticing this at 4:45. At 6:58 an officer checks his pulse. Officer Chauvin's knee doesn't come off Floyd's neck until 7:55, over 3 minutes after Floyd first seems to have gone unconscious."

    It think the charlatan claim is a very very poor attempt at muddying the waters.


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    #22
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    3 officers from NYPD hospitalized from milkshakes- before anyone investigated several police union accounts started spreading fear that it was a deliberate attempt to kill police by the Shake Shack in question. That lie reverberated around the world and has been trending. But it turns out,

    “ following an investigation, NYPD Chief Detective Rodney Harrison announced that “there was no criminality by Shake Shack’s employees.” CBS reported from sources that the incident was an accident that occurred after cleaning solution was not fully removed from the shake machine after a wash down.”

    https://www.mediaite.com/weird/nypd-determines-no-criminality-by-shake-shack-after-employees-accused-of-intentionally-poisoning-cops/

    Just for when anyone comes along later and says ‘omg theyre assassinating cops etc’


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    #23
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,993 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Man hanged in Manhattan

    https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-man-found-hanged-tree-inwood-park-20200609-irhvgdkizzbpfnkyulxzm2n2tq-story.html

    Man hanged in Palmdale

    https://www.revolt.tv/2020/6/12/21289253/black-man-palmdale-hanging

    Man hanged in Houston

    https://www.newsweek.com/fbi-reviewing-investigations-recent-hangings-third-man-found-dead-houston-1511119

    The FBI is investigating these


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    #24
    xtal191
    Registered Users Posts: 6,330 ✭✭✭xtal191


    https://twitter.com/SomeBitchIKnow/status/1272616532875583489


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    #25
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    2u2me wrote: »
    I believe the 'snitches get stiches' culture is prevalent in the police forces, it's why they are so resistant to change. It also pops up in schools, prisons, gang culture.
    Fair play to that lady for making a call and standing up for what she believed in.

    I don't think it has anything to do with Cup's foods in particular. Sure look at Snowden he's still being hunted.

    Snitches get to stay on the job, while the other loses their job and pension..

    https://v.redd.it/7t33zra7zx151

    I read about this early on the aftermath of George's death, didn't know about the guys continued sh!t behaviour till this clip.

    Hope she gets her pension!


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    #26
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Overheal wrote: »
    Jon Stewart popped back in from the wilderness:

    “I’d like to say I’m surprised by what happened to [George Floyd], but I’m not. This is a cycle, and I feel that in some ways, the issue is that we’re addressing the wrong problem. We continue to make this about the police — the how of it. How can they police? Is it about sensitivity and de-escalation training and community policing? All that can make for a less-egregious relationship between the police and people of color. But the how isn’t as important as the why, which we never address. The police are a reflection of a society. They’re not a rogue alien organization that came down to torment the black community. They’re enforcing segregation. Segregation is legally over, but it never ended. The police are, in some respects, a border patrol, and they patrol the border between the two Americas. We have that so that the rest of us don’t have to deal with it. Then that situation erupts, and we express our shock and indignation. But if we don’t address the anguish of a people, the pain of being a people who built this country through forced labor — people say, ‘‘I’m tired of everything being about race.’’ Well, imagine how [expletive] exhausting it is to live that.”

    More extensive interview in link

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/15/magazine/jon-stewart-interview.html

    He does make a good point there. The police are a reflection of society. The problem isn't that the police is broken; it's that it's working the way it was designed to work. Society in the US was once segregated by race and that is now over.

    The way he swings and bobs from "people of colour" to "the black community" and finally to 'segregation' I think he's talking about segregation between rich and poor.

    Also his point later on about no-one would switch places with a rich black person; I think he's talking bollox here. I don't know many men that wouldn't in an instant switch lives with Tiger Woods or Mike Tyson(especially from a few years back).

    The part at the end I think he just added on to sell his book. It's the type of eviscerating mentality he never bought into. He made fun of it.


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    #27
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    Snitches get to stay on the job, while the other loses their job and pension..

    https://v.redd.it/7t33zra7zx151

    I read about this early on the aftermath of George's death, didn't know about the guys continued sh!t behaviour till this clip.

    Hope she gets her pension!

    Yep that's why the police departments are so resistant to change. If you speak out about the any injustices you see it's usually to your detriment.

    Hope she gets her pension too, it seems disgusting that she got fired for speaking up; even if she's wrong(which I have no idea because haven't seen that video- is it available somewhere?)

    This is the fine line police are walking now, follow the instructions given to them and they lose their jobs, follow their morales and their principles; they lose their job. They just can't win.


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    #28
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    2u2me wrote: »
    Yep that's why the police departments are so resistant to change. If you speak out about the any injustices you see it's usually to your detriment.

    Hope she gets her pension too, it seems disgusting that she got fired for speaking up; even if she's wrong(which I have no idea because haven't seen that video- is it available somewhere?)

    This is the fine line police are walking now, follow the instructions given to them and they lose their jobs, follow their morales and their principles; they lose their job. They just can't win.

    I don't know how viewing the actions of your colleague and thinking they were wrong, seeking to end them that that can be seen as such a bad wrong She faced 13 "charges" she was found guilty on 11 of them, insanity imo.
    I've done some googling came up with zero for a video of it, it seems bodycams came in to use in the US around 2014.


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    #29
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    https://youtu.be/5lCbyxJ8mMg

    Senate hearing on police use of force.


  • Options
    #30
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    Terrible

    https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1272750711831494657


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    #31
    Justin Credible Darts
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Justin Credible Darts


    to all those in this thread who would have you believe you must be with them on their side or belong on what was referred to as the otherside.


    this shows why decent rational people are not on either side.


    And this is 30 years old


    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=586579685568675


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