General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

WishUWereHere · 10-06-2020 07:51PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Right? You obviously took that personally?

You still not paying for your bins eh?

Can I see your hate scale?

The people of Carlow/KK decided he was worthy of a seat in Dáil Éireann. I didn't vote for him.

If I had the misfortune to live in Carlow or Kilkenny I likely wouldn't have either.

To piss and moan about him now is hilarious.

Your awareness and knowledge really summarised right there. G'luck.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am too. I respect your opinions, BUT who the hell are You to make a comment about whether I pay for my bins or not?

For Your info, I do and ALWAYS have. My account is with Thornton's and my bins are collected every Monday. Want my Thornton's account #?

frw5 · 13-06-2020 10:08AM

Am I getting this right or the new government is supposed to be formed over the weekend.
Didn't all 3 parties announce increase in HTB sceheme prior to elections? In terms of amounts? I guess that would be only in budget 2021, they wouldn't touch the one already set in place?

eagle eye · 13-06-2020 10:12AM

frw5 wrote:

Am I getting this right or the new government is supposed to be formed over the weekend. Didn't all 3 parties announce increase in HTB sceheme prior to elections? In terms of amounts? I guess that would be only in budget 2021, they wouldn't touch the one already set in place?

There'll be nothing positive in the next budget. It'll be all about taking money off people and all election promises made will be explained away as not happening due to coronavirus.
We all have to pay for that 350 euro covid-19 handout.

Panda Killa · 13-06-2020 11:35AM

eagle eye wrote: »

There'll be nothing positive in the next budget. It'll be all about taking money off people and all election promises made will be explained away as not happening due to coronavirus.
We all have to pay for that 350 euro covid-19 handout.

And? No matter who is in government..that's the reality we are facing

eagle eye · 13-06-2020 12:39PM

Panda Killa wrote:

And? No matter who is in government..that's the reality we are facing

Yes.

Sierra Oscar · 13-06-2020 01:49PM

It sounds like we will have an agreement at some stage tomorrow. That's only half the battle I guess, over to the Greens now to see if their membership will back it. FF are so desperate their membership are likely to endorse it to save Micheál Martin the embarrassment of being forced out.

eagle eye · 13-06-2020 01:53PM

I never voted for them and never will but just thinking it's shocking that the party with the most seats won't be in government. I'm kinda happy about it but it feels wrong at the same time.

beggars_bush · 13-06-2020 02:25PM

eagle eye wrote: »

There'll be nothing positive in the next budget. It'll be all about taking money off people and all election promises made will be explained away as not happening due to coronavirus.
We all have to pay for that 350 euro covid-19 handout.

It's right and proper that families were supported during the covid crisis
And I'm fully expecting a tax increase or USC hike

Sam Russell · 13-06-2020 02:38PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I never voted for them and never will but just thinking it's shocking that the party with the most seats won't be in government. I'm kinda happy about it but it feels wrong at the same time.

Well, 75% of the electorate did not vote for them. So they do not have a sufficient mandate to form a Gov, and a very significant number of TDs do not want to have anything to do with them. They continue to chant that the vote was for change, but nearly half the electorate voted for FF and FG. That is a vote for no change. They (SF) were unable to persuade any party to go with them into Gov.

How is that wrong?

eagle eye · 13-06-2020 02:49PM

Sam Russell wrote:

How is that wrong?

They are the biggest party. FG and FF votes don't cross over in elections so while you see them as similar, and a lot of people do including yours truly, I don't think either has a true mandate from their own supporters to form a coalition with their long time enemy.

I just feel the biggest party should be in government. Actusliy I think it'd be the perfect time too to show them up as what they truly are, which is pretty clueless.

L1011 · 13-06-2020 03:57PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I never voted for them and never will but just thinking it's shocking that the party with the most seats won't be in government. I'm kinda happy about it but it feels wrong at the same time.

Its the absolute norm in multi-party systems

In Denmark recently enough the main party of the government came third - the first (outgoing at the time and now in government again) and second (main opposition both those times) basically let them at it.

LuasSimon · 13-06-2020 04:18PM

Interesting article in Irish times today , it seems the greens have been taken over by the far left and could well reject any deal with FG or FF

L1011 · 13-06-2020 04:53PM

Greens are an all-encompassing party; a previous attempt to split their left out (Fis Nua) died and someone reminded me elsewhere that their first ever TD quit in the early 90s and tried to do the same.

If they can't manage a broad church, realistically there needs to be a split in to a centrist ecology party and an eco-socialist one; like many other countries have.

LuasSimon · 13-06-2020 06:59PM

L1011 wrote: »

Greens are an all-encompassing party; a previous attempt to split their left out (Fis Nua) died and someone reminded me elsewhere that their first ever TD quit in the early 90s and tried to do the same.

If they can't manage a broad church, realistically there needs to be a split in to a centrist ecology party and an eco-socialist one; like many other countries have.

Looks like the one here will become a eco - far left - socialist one !!

eagle eye · 13-06-2020 07:10PM

LuasSimon wrote:

Looks like the one here will become a eco - far left - socialist one !!

How can FF/FG go with them then?

WishUWereHere · 13-06-2020 08:07PM

eagle eye wrote: »

How can FF/FG go with them then?

I don't think they can, and for that's right. What we need is another election. I know people will say thats rubbish, but I do think things will be different then.

For one, the shinners will nominate many more potential td's. Will that work for them? Who knows. At the same time I do believe FG will gain from their obedience to the HSE over CV19. FF, who needs them? As for kelly and labour? I think they will sink into oblivion.

All I'm saying is that if there was another election, the landscape may well be a LOT different to last February.

BonnieSituation · 13-06-2020 10:30PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I never voted for them and never will but just thinking it's shocking that the party with the most seats won't be in government. I'm kinda happy about it but it feels wrong at the same time.

How did you feel when Labour "shafted" Reynolds on 1994 then?

Thank god there's no rule that the "largest party" have to be in government. Imagine the state of that.

hotmail.com · 13-06-2020 11:24PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It sounds like we will have an agreement at some stage tomorrow. That's only half the battle I guess, over to the Greens now to see if their membership will back it. FF are so desperate their membership are likely to endorse it to save Micheál Martin the embarrassment of being forced out.

I'm getting the impression that Catherine Martin is about to sign off on the deal and then recommend Green members vote against it?

Have I got that right?

hotmail.com · 13-06-2020 11:26PM

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I don't think they can, and for that's right. What we need is another election. I know people will say thats rubbish, but I do think things will be different then.

For one, the shinners will nominate many more potential td's. Will that work for them? Who knows. At the same time I do believe FG will gain from their obedience to the HSE over CV19. FF, who needs them? As for kelly and labour? I think they will sink into oblivion.

All I'm saying is that if there was another election, the landscape may well be a LOT different to last February.

Absolutely.

And SF will be called out on their boll*x tax cuts. Without promising tax cuts, I think SF will suffer in an election campaign.

Jizique · 13-06-2020 11:30PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I never voted for them and never will but just thinking it's shocking that the party with the most seats won't be in government. I'm kinda happy about it but it feels wrong at the same time.

Imagine having FF running the country every single year from 1932 till 2011....

Geuze · 14-06-2020 12:35AM

LuasSimon wrote: »

Interesting article in Irish times today , it seems the greens have been taken over by the far left and could well reject any deal with FG or FF

Ah Jaysus, I suspected this.

I support environmentalism, and I voted Green reluctantly, as they were mostly pro-abortion.

I now regret voting for them, as they seem to be for illegal immigration.

AndrewJRenko · 14-06-2020 12:40AM

eagle eye wrote: »

How can FF/FG go with them then?

How can they not?

BonnieSituation · 14-06-2020 05:45AM

Geuze wrote: »

Ah Jaysus, I suspected this.

I support environmentalism, and I voted Green reluctantly, as they were mostly pro-abortion.

I now regret voting for them, as they seem to be for illegal immigration.

It seems that most people voted for something that we're not gonna get.

I'm not one for discussing what I voted for but I voted specifically for FG, SD, Green and SF given my Constituency.

I don't want FF near government ever.

So you have a situation where FG and Green have lost a loyal voter because of that decision.

I can't imagine I'm the only one. It's a long time since I was an FG member, but based on any deal that puts FF into government I can't imagine it won't go down well. It'll pass, but it won't be without damage for the next GE.

Sierra Oscar · 14-06-2020 11:39AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm getting the impression that Catherine Martin is about to sign off on the deal and then recommend Green members vote against it?

Have I got that right?

I'd say she will back it.

She doesn't seem to have been briefing against the deal at all these last few days. No concerns being raised. How can she sign off on the deal that she negotiated and then recommend to members to reject it?

Regardless it's no certainty that it will pass the membership even if both Ryan and Martin endorse the deal.

frw5 · 14-06-2020 11:42AM

Was just going through the Green Party housing policy document:
https://www.greenparty.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Green-Party-Housing-Policy.pdf

It's completely illiterate, incorrect spacing and what not, document looks like it was written by a primary school student.

Shocking.

touts · 14-06-2020 01:34PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm getting the impression that Catherine Martin is about to sign off on the deal and then recommend Green members vote against it?

Have I got that right?

She's ambitious. She will probably not recommend it or oppose it. She will come out with some vague statement that "she respects the integrity of the voting process" or some rubbish like that. So no matter what way the vote goes she will claim to have been on the winning side.

Leonard Hofstadter · 14-06-2020 06:01PM

Given the way the leadership in FF and FG have sold their minds, and souls, for the sake of getting a Programme for Government together to appease a party that got just 7% of the vote, I hope the grassroots in both parties can see through this, and reject it. Well I have little faith in FF, but I hope there are still some people in Fine Gael who have principles and some moral fibre.

They have utterly betrayed the 440,000 voters (of which I am now ashamed to say I was one of) who gave them their number one vote in the most recent election.

I know the Donegal branch in the party is opposed to it, I believe the Cork North West one is, too - I just hope others will follow suit and kill this nonsense off before the 2/3rds of people who don't live in Dublin kill off the party and gift the Shinners and all those mad Healy-Rae type independents the next Government.

WishUWereHere · 14-06-2020 06:35PM

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Given the way the leadership in FF and FG have sold their minds, and souls, for the sake of getting a Programme for Government together to appease a party that got just 7% of the vote, I hope the grassroots in both parties can see through this, and reject it. Well I have little faith in FF, but I hope there are still some people in Fine Gael who have principles and some moral fibre.

They have utterly betrayed the 440,000 voters (of which I am now ashamed to say I was one of) who gave them their number one vote in the most recent election.

I know the Donegal branch in the party is opposed to it, I believe the Cork North West one is, too - I just hope others will follow suit and kill this nonsense off before the 2/3rds of people who don't live in Dublin kill off the party and gift the Shinners and all those mad Healy-Rae type independents the next Government.

While I 100% agree with your first 2 paragraphs, your last one is scary. I hear what You say, but ( and this is a genuine question ) What the f**k is the alternative?

Only way I see, is another election.

ThunbergsAreGo · 14-06-2020 06:50PM

WishUWereHere wrote: »

While I 100% agree with your first 2 paragraphs, your last one is scary. I hear what You say, but ( and this is a genuine question ) What the f**k is the alternative?

Only way I see, is another election.

After which we'd likely be in the exact same situation

Leonard Hofstadter · 14-06-2020 07:05PM

WishUWereHere wrote: »

While I 100% agree with your first 2 paragraphs, your last one is scary. I hear what You say, but ( and this is a genuine question ) What the f**k is the alternative?

Only way I see, is another election.

Another election. Can't understand why FG doesn't take advantage of their 35% standing in the polls, that would net 70 seats. Then do a deal with Labour, Soc Dems, rural TDs, FF (what's left of them).

Maybe another election would give a similar result to February, but then FG would definitely have legitimate grounds to go into opposition, and let someoene else.

FF would ditch Martin in this scenario and probably go in with the Shinners. The only way to solve the problem of the Shinners is to expose them to the reality of being in power. Maybe then Fine Gael might grow up and remember their values, and relentlessly hammer home how incompetent a FF/SF Government would be, and we might have grown ups again in charge in a few years' time.

As things stand, Fine Gael has a death wish if their membership approves this. If this gets through, they've lost me as a voter, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I actually wouldn't know who to vote for now.

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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