Why do the British know so little about us?

ThewhiteJesus · 12-06-2020 01:46PM

Rodin wrote: »

Lots of Irish can't pronounce Taoiseach.
Many add a 'h' after the T

Nowhere near as bad as people who say "CRIPS" instead of "CRISPS"
or "MACHEW" instead of "MATTHEW"

Finty Lemon · 12-06-2020 01:46PM

Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Australia
The Bahamas
Bahrain
Barbados
Belize
Botswana
Brunei
Canada
Cyprus
Dominica
Egypt
Fiji
The Gambia
Ghana
Grenada
India
Iraq
Jamaica
Jordan
Kenya
Kiribati
Kuwait
Lesotho
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mauritius
Myanmar
Nauru
New Zealand
Nigeria
Pakistan
Qatar
St lucia
Saint Kitts and Nevis
St Vincent and the Grenadines
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Soloman islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Swaziland
Tanzania
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States (Colonies)
Vanuatu
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Ireland is part of a long list of former colonies in the British Empire. Compared to the breadth of India, ANZ, South Africa and Canada, the details of this unremarkable island are quite trivial indeed.

armaghlad · 12-06-2020 01:48PM

There are plenty of British that actually *live* on this island and they are experts In Irish history - 1690 being a specialist subject.

banie01 · 12-06-2020 01:54PM

Zaph wrote: »

I think this tweet says a lot about the education system in the UK. And if that's not improving continuously then you can hardly expect the population to be much better informed now than they were 30 or 40 years ago.

https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1269919507675525132

Funnily enough BoJo was mouthing off earlier today about the threat to Churchill's statue and that "we cannot try to edit or censor our past"

It's a strange situation where I find myself agreeing with the spirit, but not the truth of what he says.

Churchill was a great wartime leader(at his 2nd attempt, even then he cost far too many lives on flights of strategic fantasy)
But...
Don't just remember his speeches, don't let his seminal "Great guy" win out over his utterly abhorrent treatment of Indians, native peoples and the Irish.

If ever the axiom that History is written by the victors needed to be proven?
The man has a Nobel prize in literature for the history he wrote, and that for many years was a primary source!

He is flawed, but when a man who imposed famine in Bengal, Gave voice to his white supremacist views, oversaw the Tan's rampage through the war of independence and made strategic mis-steps such as Gallipoli, who advocated the RAF using poison gas against the Kurds, His stance on unions and strikebreaking.

If the British people knew the totality of their heroes, rather than snippets of their highlights reel it would be far easier to accept their jingoism.

The lack of understanding of their own history by a vast majority of those who haven't done it at Uni is a disappointment.
Their curricul is still very much white saviour.

partyguinness · 12-06-2020 01:57PM

flazio wrote: »

In answer to the OP, probably the same reason the average Irish person wouldn't know much about the history of, let's say, Iceland for example.

Well that is not really an accurate comparison now is it? Simple bcause Iceland's influence and part in Irish history is non existant. Compare that with the UK.

It is no real exaggeration to say that 99% of Irish history is dominated by the British.

Hamsterchops · 12-06-2020 01:59PM

flazio wrote: »

In answer to the OP, probably the same reason the average Irish person wouldn't know much about the history of, let's say, Iceland for example.

Iceland :rolleyes:

Iceland is nearly a thousand miles away, Britain is just twelve miles away from this island.
Ireland & Britain are part of the same archipelago of islands, hence we have much in common. I dare say we should know much more about each other.

Lots of confusion on here regarding the UK and what it actually is.

buried · 12-06-2020 02:00PM

Sheep_shear wrote: »

WW1 was started by the King? News to me.

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder... I've lived here years and think you're talking through your arse tbh.

WW1 was started and executed by the warring royal houses of Europe, all decendants of Queen Victoria. Of course its news to you man, it's obviously shocking news for you to discover too but the truth is the truth.

You are the one with the chips, I'm just giving you facts. No need to be rude with all of your arse talk either man

partyguinness · 12-06-2020 02:00PM

A few posters have mentioned that they are shocked how 'ignorant' the British are re Ireland. I have lived here for 10 years and I could level the charge against them about pretty much every country.

It's not so much ignorance but they really don't give a **** and I suppose why should they?

Don't confuse ignorance with apathy.

py2006 · 12-06-2020 02:07PM

Finty Lemon wrote: »

, the details of this unremarkable island are quite trivial indeed.

Fair enough, but we are literally next door and not some distant far of land.

banie01 · 12-06-2020 02:09PM

partyguinness wrote: »

It's not so much ignorance but they really don't give a **** and I suppose why should they?

Don't confuse ignorance with apathy.

Very, very true.
Far too used to being the big boy in clubs and still labouring under the illusion that they are.

maccored · 12-06-2020 02:11PM

when i was growing up in the north friends of mine who went to non catholic schools werent taught the same history as we were. they didnt seem to learn of much or any of the bad parts of british hstory

Church on Tuesday · 12-06-2020 02:11PM

chrissb8 wrote: »

I was born and lived in the UK the first 9 years of my life. I currently live in the Uk. Have done so the last few years, and at a time when Ireland was being discussed in terms of Brexit it was alarming how many British people didn't understand the implications of a hard border.

History, literally within most people's lifetimes.

This ignorance has fed into the sense of British exceptionalism which props its head up. Be it the war, Churchill etc.

There is a sense of Britain is still great and that is down to what they're spoon-fed in school and constantly being told of their noble achievements. That what they did was good and what they did was right.

This has created the mindset in England you see today. For things like....

Brexit, wherein the voters who voted leave have deluded themselves somehow cutting nearly 500 million people as a market place is fine because they believe they still have enough eminence in the world to be a world power. Which, they are, in some areas, but are absolutely nowhere near to where they were 100 years ago.

Anti-immigration: NHS non national workers being turfed out or having to pay to work for the NHS is an example. The lack of understanding that their nation/empire has always been propped up by those of other nations. Because British people will get Britain back to its "former glory".

It's a pervading sense of blind jingoistic behaviour that is strong here in the UK. The basic level of historical understanding among the average British person is alarming. They have a world history and they barely know any of it. I could tell you the basic history of Ireland from the famine upwards and most could tell you important aspects of Irish history.

Being sensitive to your shared history as a nation means you can understand, grown and learn. As pointed out above that has not been the case and as an Irish person, bothers me in the extreme that they were so unbothered about the border and what it means to Ireland and what it could do. If they thought better of us and knew better of us, even just that issue I wouldn't be bothered. But they don't and other nations/people suffer because of it.

The reality is that England's history with us is small fry to them. Irish history, as a former colony, is barely acknowledged in the English history curriculum. We are not the only former colony exploited by the British either.

The people that voted for Brexit mostly fit the Little Englander caricature in the sense that they tended to be older people who nothing to lose anyways and the other demographic was mostly disenfranchised lower working classes in former industrial towns and cities who felt left behind and whom the Brexit movement exploited.

Ultimately, the majority of the the English population voted for Brexit and now they have to lie in the bed they have made for themselves, which is a shame but there you go.

chrissb8 · 12-06-2020 02:14PM

py2006 wrote: »

Fair enough, but we are literally next door and not some distant far of land.

Yeah and also in a time where news wasn't instant you would hear and read more about Ireland than most other colonies halfway across the world.

py2006 · 12-06-2020 02:14PM

I always heard that in their history books at school they have a brief chapter or even a paragraph relating to Ireland.

You would think as being part of their empire at one stage and so close to them with English having homes here throughout history that they would have something more

Sheep_shear · 12-06-2020 02:14PM

buried wrote: »

WW1 was started and executed by the warring royal houses of Europe, all decendants of Queen Victoria. Of course its news to you man, it's obviously shocking news for you to discover too but the truth is the truth.

The King and Queens of Britain have not had the power to do any of what you claim, for centuries. That is a fact.

Anywho, back at the ranch I forever have a ghost that follows me. When asked where in Ireland I'm from when meeting someone new, I get the exact same response... "Oh I love Galway Girl!". FU Ed Sheeran.

WesternZulu · 12-06-2020 02:15PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

The reality is that England's history with us is small fry to them

I would argue that it's not small fry. We were a part of the UK, albeit against our will, and we left. That in itself is a big deal.

completedit · 12-06-2020 02:15PM

There's only so much time. In Ireland we prattle on about the formation of the state while the rest of Europe was recovering from WW1 and Facism and Communism were beginning to dominate the landscape. We just don't have the collective experience that the rest of Europe has because of our isolation. There isn't enough hours in the day for British history thought in their schools to focus on their relationship with Ireland in any detail. Good point above, the fact we were actually more than a colony and left you would think would make us more noteworthy in their collective history but so much happened since then

Hamsterchops · 12-06-2020 02:16PM

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Nowhere near as bad as people who say "CRIPS" instead of "CRISPS"
or "MACHEW" instead of "MATTHEW"

Love it

... I've heard Machew & Catrin many times, but people don't really say crips, do they?

Taught.

mrcheez · 12-06-2020 02:16PM

FrDougal wrote: »

I just read the below RTE article about how little the British know about Ireland.

I know quite a lot about England purely from watching TV, but I know very little about Wales likely because I've hardly seen anything about it.

I've only travelled to London and Ipswitch, and then Edinburgh in Scotland, but I've travelled around the world and probably know more about Vietnam than the UK.

I imagine it's the same for the English who don't watch anything about Ireland beyond reports of Northern Ireland or Father Ted.

mick087 · 12-06-2020 02:17PM

maccored wrote: »

when i was growing up in the north friends of mine who went to non catholic schools werent taught the same history as we were. they didnt seem to learn of much or any of the bad parts of british hstory

The one thing i have learned about history is the victors and leaders write it.
In the last few years i have been reading articals letters from folk living working fighting from WW1. Now this is from all sides the Fench British, Germans, Turks the Irish. Reading what Joe Soap says to what we are told at school and history books is quite frighting

Church on Tuesday · 12-06-2020 02:18PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

I would argue that it's not small fry. We were a part of the UK, albeit against our will, and we left. That in itself is a big deal.

Big for us, mild irritation to them.

I told ya · 12-06-2020 02:22PM

newbie85 wrote: »

Has to be the state of their education system. No joke, a few years ago we bought a car in London to import to Ireland. The salesman couldn't understand why we were getting a ferry from Wales "can you not just drive there?" We couldn't believe we had to explain that we were a separate island. Had obviously never seen a map in his life.

Think that's bad.

My sister has been in the UK since 1983. Married to a Kerryman. When the children were growing up, they used the 'cupla focail' at times. So one day, there's an electrician (English guy) in the house and my sister asks Jim, as gaeilge, has he any money on him. He replies in the mother tongue. Later on the electrician asks, politely, what language they were using. My sister replies that they got into the habit of using Irish when they didn't want the children listening. The electrician replies that he never knew that, he thought Irish was Irish people speaking English with an Irish accent. True story.

brightspark · 12-06-2020 02:22PM

banie01 wrote: »

Very, very true.
Far too used to being the big boy in clubs and still labouring under the illusion that they are.

Or they just have their own interests such as who is playing the next game etc., people have differing interests why expect a lot of English people to obsess about Ireland just because some Irish people are obsessing about England.

Incidentally while failing to acknowledge any of the details, thinking that England has been the same for 800 years when in fact rulers changed there too. England was frequently invaded, by the Vikings, the Normans (part of France). King Billy of the Battle of the Boyne was Dutch. The royal family are partly German. Most of the aristocracy spoke French not English.
Ireland used to raid Britain for slaves, but that seems to be brushed over a lot too.

murpho999 · 12-06-2020 02:24PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Of course we know loads about Britain, our big brother across the sea, and nearly all of our culture is based on theirs. Tea, Coronation st, football, rugby, fry ups...
How much would the average Irish person know about Wales? Probably feck all.

I really hate this argument.

Coronation Street does not make up our culture or support of football clubs.

I would argue that Ireland has very different history, outlook on life and the world to British people and that's what makes us Irish.

To follow your thinking I would also add that GAA, Irish music, literature, legends, language and folklore also add to our uniqueness from Britian.

Watching Coronation Street or having a fry whilst watching a premiership or rugby match does not mean you're british.

py2006 · 12-06-2020 02:25PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

people don't really say crips, do they?

Taught.

Spend some time in Finglas or Ballymun

brightspark · 12-06-2020 02:26PM

I told ya wrote: »

Think that's bad.

My sister has been in the UK since 1983. Married to a Kerryman. When the children were growing up, they used the 'cupla focail' at times. So one day, there's an electrician (English guy) in the house and my sister asks Jim, as gaeilge, has he any money on him. He replies in the mother tongue. Later on the electrician asks, politely, what language they were using. My sister replies that they got into the habit of using Irish when they didn't want the children listening. The electrician replies that he never knew that, he thought Irish was Irish people speaking English with an Irish accent. True story.

Strange that they weren't trying to teach their children some Irish?

I've also heard some very strong Ulster accents, they were speaking English but I couldn't understand a word.

py2006 · 12-06-2020 02:27PM

In Ireland we would be far more aware of their politics etc. A lot of Irish people could mention the last few Prime Ministers going back to Thatcher and further

buried · 12-06-2020 02:34PM

Sheep_shear wrote: »

The King and Queens of Britain have not had the power to do any of what you claim, for centuries. That is a fact.

Anywho, back at the ranch I forever have a ghost that follows me. When asked where in Ireland I'm from when meeting someone new, I get the exact same response... "Oh I love Galway Girl!". FU Ed Sheeran.

That's exactly what I'm talking about sheep, I said they have no clue of their own history, their own Royal Family's history, who they are and where they come from. All of that is important to face, not to ignore. That is my point. They don't do it.

That's a nice story about your ghost.

Necro · 12-06-2020 02:35PM

Mod:

AH is not the place for these type of threads, especially with some of the posts so far. Thread locked pending review

Why do the British know so little about us?

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