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George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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Comments

  • #8972
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It wasn’t a crime scene. These attempts to justify what two arrested cops did is getting increasingly pathetic.


  • #8973
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    It's gone well into the soapboxing territory a long time ago imo. It's ridiculous and stupid!


  • #8974
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    joe40 wrote: »
    I absolutely do not hate the police and would always support the Gardai. They have their issues but on the whole I think they do a good job in difficult circumstances.

    I still fail to see how anyone can look at the video of the old man been pushed over in the manner in which he was and think it was ok.
    Then the callous manner all the police walked by without hardly a look.

    I don't believe our Gardai would have behaved like that with an elderly man and they're perfectly capable of swinging a baton when the need arises.

    Maybe they're just more professional.

    AGS is one national force with standard training and procedure. The US has over 17,000 police departments and there are glaring deficiencies of standardization.


  • #8975
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    joe40 wrote: »
    I absolutely do not hate the police and would always support the Gardai. They have their issues but on the whole I think they do a good job in difficult circumstances.

    I still fail to see how anyone can look at the video of the old man been pushed over in the manner in which he was and think it was ok.
    Then the callous manner all the police walked by without hardly a look.

    I don't believe our Gardai would have behaved like that with an elderly man and they're perfectly capable of swinging a baton when the need arises.

    Maybe they're just more professional.

    Ok he was pushed and he unfortunately fell , it was simple push it wasn't some kind of slam .

    Now secondly watch the video the Police man who pushed him goes to check in him but a higher ranked officer ( different badge) come up from behind and move him on, Watch that officer he straight away radios it in from the equipment on his shoulder,
    John Evans has said its was procedure for that kind of unit to keep moving and the officer where doing as they are trained ,


  • #8976
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Ok he was pushed and he unfortunately fell , it was simple push it wasn't some kind of slam .

    Now secondly watch the video the Police man who pushed him goes to check in him but a higher ranked officer ( different badge) come up from behind and move him on, Watch that officer he straight away radios it in from the equipment on his shoulder,
    John Evans has said its was procedure for that kind of unit to keep moving and the officer where doing as they are trained ,

    Fair enough I can accept the walking past if help was requested immediately. For me it still doesn't take away the fact the push was too strong on an elderly man.
    Excessive force was used, in that circumstance.


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  • #8977
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Overheal wrote: »
    It wasn’t a crime scene. These attempts to justify what two arrested cops did is getting increasingly pathetic.

    If that was 3 weeks ago that story would have received similar attention to that of George Floyd IMO.

    Brutal police behaviour; people would have been outraged.

    People are merely explaining why there isn't as much outrage in this current climate.
    It's in no way excusing the cops behaviour. Things changed a lot in a week.

    False dichotomy.


  • #8978
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2u2me wrote: »
    If that was 3 weeks ago that story would have received similar attention to that of George Floyd IMO.

    Brutal police behaviour; people would have been outraged.

    People are merely explaining why there isn't as much outrage in this current climate.
    It's in no way excusing the cops behaviour. Things changed a lot in a week.

    False dichotomy.

    people are saying it is entirely his false. how is that not excusing the cops behaviour?


  • #8979
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    people are saying it is entirely his false. how is that not excusing the cops behaviour?

    Apologies, I was talking about me. Argue with whoever is saying its entirely false.


  • #8980
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Killing isn't illegal around these parts. Murder is.

    I believe you'll find that the vast majority of police shootings are justified, and the vast minority of shootings of police are justified.

    This is going back a bit and you may not see this.

    But out of curiosity, in the Taylor case, if police did in fact fail to announce themselves as police when they barged in at 3am - would you consider that a "justified" killing of police is the boyfriend had killed one of them?

    As to whether the vast majority of police shootings are justified, is the entire point not that we can not trust that statement coming from the criminal justice system?


  • #8981
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    joe40 wrote: »
    Fair enough I can accept the walking past if help was requested immediately. For me it still doesn't take away the fact the push was too strong on an elderly man.
    Excessive force was used, in that circumstance.

    That's fair enough , I just think people don't release how tuff it is for officer and have a sheltered view that somehow they have time and ability to chat to guy and say oh its cool this is just some 75 year old man,

    I think the push obviously ended up being to hard as he fell over but I don't think it was the intent of the police and to hurt the man ,


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  • #8982
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    "Update – June 11, 9:18 a.m.: David Pinney, a man who said George Floyd “bumped heads” with Derek Chauvin, now says that he mistook Floyd for another black employee at a nightclub.

    The club’s former owner Maya Santamaria got him in touch with CBS News for his interview.

    “She specifically said she was unable to give detail information about George because she did not have a close relationship with him as I did,” he told the outlet, saying this led to the mistake he made. “I apologize for not doing my due diligence and placing you in a very uncomfortable situation.”

    He nonetheless maintained his account that Chauvin was aggressive."

    https://lawandcrime.com/george-floyd-death/george-floyd-previously-bumped-heads-with-officer-who-kneeled-on-his-neck-says-mutual-former-co-worker/


  • #8983
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    people are saying it is entirely his false. how is that not excusing the cops behaviour?

    I don't think anyone has said its entirely his fault,he put himself in harms way but the police man was obviously the one that pushed him

    I for one just think the police man should NOT lose his job over it , I think it was an unfortunate accident and the event started due to the mans behaviour but was obviously not entirely his fault ,


  • #8984
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 53,646 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    walshb wrote: »
    I am not

    Police did the right thing.....no need for me to make excuses

    They severely injured an old man. There's is nothing right about that. There's nothing right ever about police brutality.
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Just put yourself in the police shoes,

    Your following orders in the middle of protest after days of hard work and worry , all of a sudden there is someone not listing to police instruction walking towards you with a mask on , he was also taller than both police officers ,

    I'd imagine they had no idea how old he was until they seen how he fell over,

    You seem to think this is like a meeting on the street where you have time to take it all in and its in relaxed environment,

    How about the officer in question followed his training. Give the guy a warning. Then if he didn't comply arrest him. If he resists, arrest with the appropriate amount of force. Instead he choose to assault him then left him bleeding and unconscious.

    The Police have a duty to keep the peace, serve and protect. Serve and protect the very people this police officer gave concussion.


  • #8985
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has said its entirely his fault,he put himself in harms way but the police man was obviously the one that pushed him

    I for one just think the police man should NOT lose his job over it , I think it was an unfortunate accident and the event started due to the mans behaviour but was obviously not entirely his fault ,


    i decided to only quote 2 examples. one of them being a post of yours
    walshb wrote: »
    More goal posts moving and excuses and blaming everyone but the actual person responsible, the falling man.
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    It seems you can't comprehend what Walsh B has been saying , Whatever he was ,what ever done or didn't do before that day is just padding to the story ,
    In that moment he refused to listen to numerous police instructions and done the opposite and walk towards them ,

    He lack of common sense lead to the incident, yes of course the police action are also involved but all could have be avoided by him,


  • #8986
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    "Update – June 11, 9:18 a.m.: David Pinney, a man who said George Floyd “bumped heads” with Derek Chauvin, now says that he mistook Floyd for another black employee at a nightclub.

    It's genuinely shocking how often eye-witness testiomy in court is wrong.

    It's why I find it hard to digest subjective experiences into fact.



  • #8987
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i decided to only quote 2 examples. one of them being a post of yours

    Someone also clearly stated it was “100%” the old man’s fault


  • #8988
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    They severely injured an old man. There's is nothing right about that. There's nothing right ever about police brutality.



    How about the officer in question followed his training. Give the guy a warning. Then if he didn't comply arrest him. If he resists, arrest with the appropriate amount of force. Instead he choose to assault him then left him bleeding and unconscious.

    The Police have a duty to keep the peace, serve and protect. Serve and protect the very people this police officer gave concussion.

    He choose to push him away and he fell over don't make it something its not ,

    As John Evans said both officer where doing what they are trained to do ,


  • #8989
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i decided to only quote 2 examples. one of them being a post of yours

    Are you ok ? the post you quoted of mines says " yes of course the police actions are also involved "


  • #8990
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Overheal wrote: »
    AGS is one national force with standard training and procedure. The US has over 17,000 police departments and there are glaring deficiencies of standardization.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/bray-men-court-protests-2765451-May2016/

    very similar age profile from these two lads , walking sticks and crutch's too .

    I know Sean Doyle and can assure he only needs the walking stick when going on a protest ,

    Same lad got a slap of a baton in gorey a few years later and the garda was cleared as it was shown that doyle had instigated the incident and was grabbing at him under the level of the camera

    any one see any parallels here ?


  • #8991
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    One of the four ex-police now out on bail. Awful lot of money for him to pay himself.
    MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. – One of the former police officers arrested in the death of George Floyd is out of jail.

    The Hennepin County Jail website lists Thomas Keirnan Lane, 37, as having paid bond and been released from custody around 4 pm Wednesday. Lane was being held on $750,000 bond for aiding and abetting 2nd degree murder and 2nd degree manslaughter.
    The jail website lists his next court appearance as June 29.

    https://www.kimt.com/content/news/Police-officer-charged-in-death-of-George-Floyd-is-out-of-jail-571170891.html


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  • #8992
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    One of the four ex-police now out on bail. Awful lot of money for him to pay himself.



    https://www.kimt.com/content/news/Police-officer-charged-in-death-of-George-Floyd-is-out-of-jail-571170891.html

    His bail was crowdfunded.


  • #8993
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Overheal wrote: »
    His bail was crowdfunded.

    Lane had been on the police force for four days when Floyd died and was "doing everything he thought he was supposed to do as a four-day police officer,"

    He was the officer who:
    "suggested more than once that they roll the Floyd to his side"

    CNN


  • #8994
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 53,646 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    He choose to push him away and he fell over don't make it something its not ,

    As John Evans said both officer where doing what they are trained to do ,

    I'm not. It's assault. As I said before if you forcibly pushed someone away and they tripped and cracked their heads you'd be up for assault even if it's an accident. The police aren't above the law. And as a trained professional he should have known better.


  • #8995
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    2u2me wrote: »
    Lane had been on the police force for four days when Floyd died and was "doing everything he thought he was supposed to do as a four-day police officer,"

    He was the officer who:
    "suggested more than once that they roll the Floyd to his side"

    CNN

    The MPD protocol states that if an officer sees excessive use of force being used they're to step in, he tried yes then he took a back seat and let the scene play out.


  • #8996
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »
    The MPD protocol states that if an officer sees excessive use of force being used they're to step in, he tried yes then he took a back seat and let the scene play out.

    Well that's all fair enough; but how is he to know what excessive force is? He hardly has any experience. Also imagine how difficult it is to overrule your superior in the first week, you won't have much of a career.

    I'd say this is why he raised so much money, just my guess.


  • #8997
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I'm not. It's assault. As I said before if you forcibly pushed someone away and they tripped and cracked their heads you'd be up for assault even if it's an accident. The police aren't above the law. And as a trained professional he should have known better.

    You’d be up for attempted murder to be fair.


  • #8998
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    2u2me wrote: »
    Well that's all fair enough; but how is he to know what excessive force is? He hardly has any experience. Also imagine how difficult it is to overrule your superior in the first week, you won't have much of a career.

    I'd say this is why he raised so much money, just my guess.

    I believe (open to correction here) that this officer is the one who took a pulse and found none, he asked Derek should he be rolled over, he said no and they continued to restrain a dead man.

    I've said it earlier, the attitude of cops not having the backs of **** cops is a problem in the states, probably the world over. They're **** cops and the good ones need to step up, otherwise they become part of the problem of aiding these type of cnuts to continue in a position they are not fit for.


  • #8999
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    2u2me wrote: »
    Well that's all fair enough; but how is he to know what excessive force is? He hardly has any experience. Also imagine how difficult it is to overrule your superior in the first week, you won't have much of a career.

    I'd say this is why he raised so much money, just my guess.

    they knelt on his neck for nearly 9 minutes.


  • #9000
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Overheal wrote: »
    You’d be up for attempted murder to be fair.

    no you wouldn't

    again your overstating your knowledge on an issue

    at most assault would be the charge


    you may be charged with manslaughter if the person died


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  • #9001
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,032 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    What did George pass to that cop while on the ground, and why is it not getting mentioned. Seems a big deal to me, that George gave the cop something, and he pocketed it very fast while making sure no one was looking .


This discussion has been closed.
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