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Declaring a loss to revenue (any point?)

  • 26-09-2018 11:51pm
    #1
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭


    Is there any thread that discusses how to go about declaring profits/loses on shares?
    If you made a net loss from the sale do you still have to declare it ?


Comments

  • #2
    elgriff
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭elgriff


    No, as no tax owed. It would form part of your calculations for a full year position, if you made a profit overall in the year


  • #3
    Prezatch
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭Prezatch


    100% declare the loss if you plan on continuing to buy/sell stocks in the next few years. It's not mandatory but you should for the reason below.

    Utilize the losses against taxable profits in future years - you won't be able to do this unless you make the time and effort to declare the loss now. You could end up rolling forward losses for the next 3 years and than bam you make a large profit. It would be nice to not pay tax on that right?

    CGT is declared through Form 11. You'll need to register for self assessment income tax through ROS. It's very simple, all the boxes relating to your PAYE will be filled out automatically online and you just fill in the CGT bits and hit send. Registering for ROS is the most awkward piece.


  • #4
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Reviving an old thread, as it’s closest to my question:


    I have a huge loss from a liquidated company this year (€200k).
    Do I just need to register that full loss in my returns this year and then Revenue will subtract from it for future gains, until it’s all used up?

    Thank


  • #5
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    sk8board wrote: »
    Reviving an old thread, as it’s closest to my question:


    I have a huge loss from a liquidated company this year (€200k).
    Do I just need to register that full loss in my returns this year and then Revenue will subtract from it for future gains, until it’s all used up?

    Thank

    Did you invest in shares of the company, or was it a directors loan to the company?


  • #6
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭sk8board


    thegolfer wrote: »
    Did you invest in shares of the company, or was it a directors loan to the company?

    Invested in shares. In 2014 The company was sold and I cashed out half of them, paid CGT and rolled forward the other half into the new entity without any CGT event. It’s that 2nd half of the shares that are now lost.


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  • #7
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    sk8board wrote: »
    Invested in shares. In 2014 The company was sold and I cashed out half of them, paid CGT and rolled forward the other half into the new entity without any CGT event. It’s that 2nd half of the shares that are now lost.

    Cool. Yes then file and record the losses, if challenged and not filed you'd loose the entitlement. Revenue will not automatically offset losses for you in the future, for you to do.


  • #8
    Jambonjunior
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Jambonjunior


    Do you have to decalre the loss in that tax year?
    I had losses two years ago but I didn't realise I could carry them forward so I never declared them. Is it too late?

    Also, if you have trading profits this year, do you just report the overal pnl or do you have to do each trade?


  • #9
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    Jambonjunior wrote: »
    Do you have to decalre the loss in that tax year?
    I had losses two years ago but I didn't realise I could carry them forward so I never declared them. Is it too late?

    Also, if you have trading profits this year, do you just report the overal pnl or do you have to do each trade?

    If you do not declare the loss and claim this in a later tax period, then Revenue is within their rights to deny the loss.

    As for the separate trade, I would split out the trades into separate accounts, this facility is present on the Revenue Form 11, all income is amalgamated for the tax return.


  • #10
    Stop touching yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Stop touching yourself


    Prezatch wrote: »
    100% declare the loss if you plan on continuing to buy/sell stocks in the next few years. It's not mandatory but you should for the reason below.

    Utilize the losses against taxable profits in future years - you won't be able to do this unless you make the time and effort to declare the loss now. You could end up rolling forward losses for the next 3 years and than bam you make a large profit. It would be nice to not pay tax on that right?

    CGT is declared through Form 11. You'll need to register for self assessment income tax through ROS. It's very simple, all the boxes relating to your PAYE will be filled out automatically online and you just fill in the CGT bits and hit send. Registering for ROS is the most awkward piece.



    Can you tell me where this form 11 is? I logged the question with ROS and they were utterly useless with the answer.

    Also, are losses only written off against future investment profits, or are they deducted from income taxes?

    I don't know much about taxes so apologies for the newbie questions...


  • #11
    Stop touching yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Stop touching yourself


    Anyone?


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  • #12
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭homer911


    If you are registered on "myAccount" by default you will fill out a Form 12. If registered on ROS, by default its a Form 11
    CGT has nothing to do with Income Tax, the two are separate.

    It might be advisable to get some professional tax advice..


  • #13
    bfa1509
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    Can I just clarify if offsetting losses in one year against gains in another year is independent of the product that the loss/gain was made? For example can I use the loss of Share A in 2020 to offset the taxable gain I made for Share B in 2021?

    And likewise could I use the loss in ETF A in 2020 to offset the taxable gain I made for Share B in 2021?

    Or can you just simply ignore everything and just report overall loss/gain for the year? I'm confusing myself even more typing this question out... :(


  • #14
    Stop touching yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Stop touching yourself


    Got a message from revenue that I don't have to declare my losses in 2020 until this year, is that right?

    They said I need to fill out form 11


  • #15
    sk8board
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭sk8board


    Stop touching yourself wrote: »
    Got a message from revenue that I don't have to declare my losses in 2020 until this year, is that right?

    They said I need to fill out form 11

    That’s correct - you don’t file a final return for a tax year during that year - you do it the following year.

    So yes, once the 2020 form 11 appears on the Revenue site in Jan, you can file your 2020 return.
    Most people wait until Oct/Nov and try to get some return on that money in the meantime


  • #16
    Stop touching yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Stop touching yourself


    sk8board wrote: »
    That’s correct - you don’t file a final return for a tax year during that year - you do it the following year.

    So yes, once the 2020 form 11 appears on the Revenue site in Jan, you can file your 2020 return.
    Most people wait until Oct/Nov and try to get some return on that money in the meantime

    What would qualify as proof of my losses, would you know? I wonder if screenshots would be enough, or would Revenue want more?


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