Wifi mesh systems

grogi · 01-06-2020 12:46pm

vintagevrs wrote: »

So keep the Eir f2000 as my router? I agree as it hasn't caused me any issue so far.

I would.

The real fun starts if you want to create isolated guess or IoT networks. Even managed L2 switch would not route traffic between VLANs, so you either get full L3 switch (even Gb PoE L3 switches, in 2nd hand market, are not that expensive anymore, but loud and power hungry) or get simple L2 switches (unmanaged switches might drop tagged frames) and a router that understands VLANs. F2000 would not I guess, you'd need something more advanced. USG would help then.

I have a Cisco unmanaged gig switch at the min but it doesn't do POE, but will replace with another Cisco POE that I may be able to get free of charge. I presume there is no real benefit of having a unifi switch.

That's 100 quid in your pocket then... The benefit is in management and monitoring, but with one switch you will not be killing yourself by doing CLI from time to time.

I will prob buy another couple unfi APs this week. The one I bought last week (broadband buyer ) came with a 3 year cloud managed service. Should I ditch that and buy a little controller or use the cloud service as its free? I presume use the cloud in the mean time.

Last question (for now ) which is the bit I don't fully understand. If for example I have 3 unifi APs. Does WiFi roaming then improve compared with random access points I had before from old routers? If so, how or why?

Many thanks

If you have random APs, the client will keep connected to the AP it is connected as long as possible, even if better AP became available. Voodoo like same SSID and/or same channel don't work. UAPs would coordinate among them and force the client to connect to stronger AP (in the most basic scenario by denying connectivity to the AP that has weaker visibility) without much interruption to the client.

Shefwedfan · 01-06-2020 12:55pm

kala85 wrote: »

If you were to rank the mesh wifi routers what would be your best.

Its a toss up between the Tri Band Linksys and the Huawei

If you are taking price out of it then Linksys tri-band. The performance is good but I would have needed more units, the app is better and the features like Linksys aware are better.

The price/performance of the Huawei is incredible. Even I have piut an office up the top of garden and have a unit sitting in it and it is working perfect

Hopefully they invest in the app and then it would be a no brainer

If you have block wall and a spread out house then Huawei is a no brainer.

vintagevrs · 01-06-2020 1:19pm

grogi wrote: »

I would.

The real fun starts if you want to create isolated guess or IoT networks. Even managed L2 switch would not route traffic between VLANs, so you either get full L3 switch (even Gb PoE L3 switches, in 2nd hand market, are not that expensive anymore, but loud and power hungry) or get simple L2 switches (unmanaged switches might drop tagged frames) and a router that understands VLANs. F2000 would not I guess, you'd need something more advanced. USG would help then.

That's 100 quid in your pocket then... The benefit is in management and monitoring, but with one switch you will not be killing yourself by doing CLI from time to time.

If you have random APs, the client will keep connected to the AP it is connected as long as possible, even if better AP became available. Voodoo like same said and/or channel don't work. UAP would coordinate and force the client to connect to stronger AP without interruption.

Thanks for the detailed response.

"UAP would coordinate and force the client to connect to stronger AP without interruption"

How does this part work? It's the bit I don't understand? If a client has weak connection, how does the ap know to kick it off and that there will be another better connection available? Or maybe it doesn't know, and just takes the risk by kicking anyway and if nothing better the client just reconnects to the crappy signal again?

Thanks again

Gooey Looey · 01-06-2020 1:49pm

vintagevrs wrote: »

Thanks for the detailed response.

"UAP would coordinate and force the client to connect to stronger AP without interruption"

How does this part work? It's the bit I don't understand? If a client has weak connection, how does the ap know to kick it off and that there will be another better connection available? Or maybe it doesn't know, and just takes the risk by kicking anyway and if nothing better the client just reconnects to the crappy signal again?

Thanks again

It's called band steering. Client devices will happily sit on a slower AP radio (2.4ghz) if the signal is good enough with a faster radio available (5ghz). With band steering the AP ignores requests on the slower radio dictating which radio the client connects to

vintagevrs · 01-06-2020 2:15pm

Gooey Looey wrote: »

It's called band steering. Client devices will happily sit on a slower AP radio (2.4ghz) if the signal is good enough with a faster radio available (5ghz). With band steering the AP ignores requests on the slower radio dictating which radio the client connects to

Not sure band steering covers the scenario I mean though. Is that not for initial connection to an AP that broadcasts on both 2.4 and 5, where the ap will kick requests for the 2.4 for devices that it knows are compatible with 5 to steer them to the 5ghz connection.

If I am connected via AP1 and walk away from it whilst maintaining a medium/low signal, my client device will hold onto AP1 and not connect to AP2 which may offer better connection.

This is the bit I'm still not clear on tbh.

Gooey Looey · 01-06-2020 2:29pm

vintagevrs wrote: »

Not sure band steering covers the scenario I mean though. Is that not for initial connection to an AP that broadcasts on both 2.4 and 5, where the ap will kick requests for the 2.4 for devices that it knows are compatible with 5 to steer them to the 5ghz connection.

If I am connected via AP1 and walk away from it whilst maintaining a medium/low signal, my client device will hold onto AP1 and not connect to AP2 which may offer better connection.

This is the bit I'm still not clear on tbh.

Your client device doesn't just connect once, it's constantly beaconing and reconnecting. It's normally the client that decides when to roam (or when not to). Clients have been bad at making this choice. Band steering gives some control back to the AP to try to steer towards the faster 5ghz. The AP would also have a minimum signal level (minimum RSSI, this is configurable in better WiFi systems like Unifi) before it tells the client to bugger off and find a new AP.

kala85 · 01-06-2020 3:27pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Its a toss up between the Tri Band Linksys and the Huawei

If you are taking price out of it then Linksys tri-band. The performance is good but I would have needed more units, the app is better and the features like Linksys aware are better.

The price/performance of the Huawei is incredible. Even I have piut an office up the top of garden and have a unit sitting in it and it is working perfect

Hopefully they invest in the app and then it would be a no brainer

If you have block wall and a spread out house then Huawei is a no brainer.

Which hauwei units would you recommend.
If I am on a wifi call and move through the house will it pick up the the strongest router and hand over to the nearest ones.

What's the difference between hauwei and linksys.
Is the linksys very good

Clareman · 01-06-2020 9:10pm

Just to throw my 2 cents into the mix.

When I started down the smart device rabbit hole I started with Google stuff and found it great with my android devices, I don't have any Apple devices so I found the Google ecosystem to be brilliant, add in Philips Hue and Xaoimi vacuum and everything just works. I won some money so decided to get some upgrades, the Nest ecosystem fits the bill so I went for the Nest Mesh, it just works with everything, can't put it any simpler than that, it just works, I'm a geek at heart, have a couple of Cisco qualifications and all but this just works and it makes it easier. I'd love to have the time to tinker with different devices, to get to the nuts and bolts of the systems, setup all the different VLANs and all that, by gawd I love all that stuff but with 2 small kids, full time job and other responsibilities I just don't have the time so having something that just works is great.

By the way, for my setup, I just turned off the wifi on the ISP supplied router and I just use that for wired connections, that way if I ever change ISP I can just swop out the ISP router and not have to change any other settings on other devices.

Shefwedfan · 01-06-2020 9:32pm

kala85 wrote: »

Which hauwei units would you recommend.
If I am on a wifi call and move through the house will it pick up the the strongest router and hand over to the nearest ones.

What's the difference between hauwei and linksys.
Is the linksys very good

Both have a dual band for connecting to devices. Linksys has a seperate wifi network for connecting back to main hub and Huawei uses the electric lines. So if you have thick walls Huawei is better option.

The Linksys as above aer very good and the app is more robust. I think Huawei are new to the market so that is why the app is less refined

Both will provide a mesh so you wont lose connection when on wifi calls, or you should not

Duke of Url · 01-06-2020 9:53pm

I’m currently using Netgear RBK20 — Orbi AC2200 Tri-band WiFi mesh System that has been very reliable the past 2 years.

kala85 · 01-06-2020 10:54pm

Will the huawei mesh work with an extension lead plugged into a socket or do they have to be plugged into the actual socket

Shefwedfan · 01-06-2020 11:15pm

kala85 wrote: »

Will the huawei mesh work with an extension lead plugged into a socket or do they have to be plugged into the actual socket

Recommended to plug direct into a wall but they are working for me in a long extension

shaveAbullock · 02-06-2020 12:29am

Yes best to plug directly into the wall but if you are going to use an extension make sure it has no surge protection.

Grumpypants · 02-06-2020 10:56am

I think my Tenda Nova MW6 is heading back to Amazon. I've given it a good go but it is still struggling to provide me with any kind of a stable service.

I was getting speeds of under 1 Mbps on my iPhone (which usually gets 120+) so did a whole reset again ( I had to do one on Firday night too) This morning the iPhone wont't even stay connected even though I'm sitting next to the cube in my office.

I had high hopes for it but I think I'd be better off paying the bit extra. The house is just too much of a big lump of concrete. That is needs something rock solid.

degsie · 02-06-2020 4:51pm

https://youtu.be/5aJ2QAO9PZo

Nice if you could afford it!

Gooey Looey · 02-06-2020 5:14pm

degsie wrote: »

https://youtu.be/5aJ2QAO9PZo

Nice if you could afford it!

That's what you should be aiming for (^^)
You don't have to do it all at once!

I have just as good setup myself, but with Mikrotik, not Ubiquiti!

bk · 02-06-2020 6:18pm

Yep, I watched Linus video, looks very cool, but a few grands worth of kit. That single AP XG access point he was using (the indoors one) is $800 for one!! The outdoor one (that he put in the attic) is $1,500.

BTW check out the very cool video of the rack mount gear on the front page of their website:
https://www.ui.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiexsTuwHEg&feature=youtu.be

Using an app on your phone and Augmented Reality to show what each network cable is connected to looks seriously cool. Though in the real world probably of limited use.

vintagevrs · 02-06-2020 9:41pm

I posted earlier that I installed a Ubiquiti AC Pro access point in my home, and it works perfectly. I am considering buying some more. The house I live in now was built out the back of an old house I used to live in, 50m away. When we built the new house I ran 2 cat6 cables between them in case ever needed in future. We used to have less than 2mb ADSL so they just sat there. I now have 1gb FTTH and work from the old house now and both cables are capable of carrying 1gb speeds. I occasionally read about potential issues with connecting two separate homes with copper due to possible grounding issues, although never experienced any issue, it was still on my mind. Anyway, long story short, the access point works perfectly down there connecting to my switch back in my home at gb speed and also getting power from my home too so now the two electrical systems are isolated from each other, I have full 1gb speeds down there (previous router/ap down there was only 100mb).

Happy out. I really like this Ubiquiti stuff so far.

Clareman · 03-06-2020 8:07am

This came up on my Google feed this morning, good article which explains Mesh vs extenders fairly simply

https://phandroid.com/2020/06/01/what-is-a-mesh-wifi-router/amp/

tobdom · 03-06-2020 10:46am

tobdom wrote: »

Got an answer from TP-Link Support on this.....

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]2.Trying to access web interface.
Answer: Deco P9 don't support web interface yet but we will raise your concern with our Senior Engineer so that they can also include it on the next firmware update, but there's no guarantee yet.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Disappointing that this system doesn't (yet) allow access to more advanced settings/configuration, similar to other devices from the same provider. It is what it is for now I guess....
[/FONT]

FYI, the Deco P9 got a firmware update today, bringing a nice bit more functionality into the app.... more granular control of devices & the Decos themselves, ability to set the roaming (between Decos) option at a device level etc. There is also now an admin web interface, but it doesn't seem to have any additional functionality or control than is present in the app.

Happy_Harry · 04-06-2020 6:00pm

Maybe someone here can help.. which of these systems have functionality in app or on web page to view historical network usage by device ?

The only one I could find through google was actual the google (nest) wifi.. I can't believe that it is only make that has this functionality ?

vintagevrs · 04-06-2020 6:22pm

Ubiquiti stuff can do that if that's any use to you:

Marlow · 04-06-2020 6:27pm

AVM Fritz!Box routers also have that functionality. Their mesh system also is excellent, but the pricepoint is a good bit higher than most others, as you buy individual routers and/or repeaters from them to make up the mesh.

/M

kala85 · 04-06-2020 6:28pm

Is there any system that can be used to actually find out what people looked up.

Marlow · 04-06-2020 6:30pm

kala85 wrote: »

Is there any system that can be used to actually find out what people looked up.

You would need a filtering proxy for that. Completely different thing and has nothing to with the mesh.

Mikrotik has that service build in, but Mikrotik is nothing a novice would be able to set up. Certainly not the advanced features.

/M

whowantstwoknow · 04-06-2020 7:42pm

Hi all,

Q2 Pro setup, When you configure subsequent Pro's (after establishing the main Pro), do they have to be chained "after the main" in terms of Ethernet connections, I daisy changed the 2nd off the first and using the mobile app added it into the "Mesh", but when I take that device and relocate to another part of the house, connected to the LAN using another cable linked back into the same switch/hub as the Main router, they dont see each other. Now each device shows as have internet connectivity but just not aware of the other?

Obviously I'm doing some stupid!!

Thanks
W.

Happy_Harry · 04-06-2020 7:57pm

Marlow wrote: »

AVM Fritz!Box routers also have that functionality. Their mesh system also is excellent, but the pricepoint is a good bit higher than most others, as you buy individual routers and/or repeaters from them to make up the mesh.

/M

That looks very interesting indeed and would be roughly same price as a google nest solution. I guess it would also be more powerful than a google nest ? So perhaps only need 2 devices rather than 3 google nests ?

vintagevrs wrote: »

Ubiquiti stuff can do that if that's any use to you:

I tried Ubiquiti - and was really disappointed, maybe a faulty device but wifi range was significantly less than ISP provided router. Sent back and not eager to try again.

Marlow · 04-06-2020 8:46pm

Happy_Harry wrote: »

That looks very interesting indeed and would be roughly same price as a google nest solution. I guess it would also be more powerful than a google nest ? So perhaps only need 2 devices rather than 3 google nests ?

You have to look at the spec. Only the AVM Fritz!Box routers at version 7 and upwards are capable of Mesh.

So anything x4xx, x5xx, 4040, 4020, things like the DECT!Repeater 3000 etc.

I guess the best value ones at the moment are the 7530 or the 4040, which can be got at the 100 EUR mark each new.

How many you need is always down to how your house is signal wise. None of these devices can beat physical limitations.

/M

Grumpypants · 04-06-2020 8:46pm

Decided that before I sent the Nova back I'd give it one more shot. I think I might have tried to be too smart and created a loop in the network as I've 3 switches and 3 nodes all plugged into the network.

Reset everything stripped it right back.

Primary node is plugged directly in the router. Not connected to the switch at all. I've a separate cable going to each switch.

Second node connected via WiFi. No cable needed.

Third upstairs needed the lan cable to boost the signal upstairs as it is a distance.

Much better all round. My phone that never got over 45mb is hitting 120mb when I'm in the same room. And 10-20 when in the furthest away rooms upstairupstairs.

The rest will be how it maintains over a few days.

GerardKeating · 04-06-2020 8:55pm

whowantstwoknow wrote: »

Q2 Pro setup, When you configure subsequent Pro's (after establishing the main Pro), do they have to be chained "after the main" in terms of Ethernet connections

I installed a set of the Q2 Pro's over the weekend, but I am using the built in "Gigabit PLC" to connect them together.

From reading your post, I am not sure if you are doing the same, or have you got ethernet cable around the house to connect them ?

Wifi mesh systems

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