Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

General Rugby Discussion II

Options
1…220221223225226…293

Comments

  • Options
    #6662
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,145 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Bring Argies into the 8 Nations based out of Spain. Base the Jaguars in Barcelona also and let them into the PRO14. Watch the game grow in Spain as a result

    Unless there is a pathway for development of Spanish players this isnt going to grow the game in Spain.

    A global calendar would minimize the damage to Argentina as their players will all be heading to England or France now.

    Montoya to Tigers/Glaws
    Few other moves rumoured too



    Super Rugby became a mess as they added more and more. Pro14 need to heed those lessons


  • Options
    #6663
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,336 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    All the talk lately of a global league, promotion relegation in the 6N etc, honestly is a little bit odd in my head at least.

    6N is the one of the most popular, if not the most popular international competition in rugby that happens each year. Fans love it, financially it's great for six sides involved as it is.

    Why are we always talking about modifying it or implementing changes to suit teams that aren't in it? I realise that there was that big change from 5N to 6N there a while back, but can we not sometimes just leave a good thing alone?


  • Options
    #6664
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »
    All the talk lately of a global league, promotion relegation in the 6N etc, honestly is a little bit odd in my head at least.

    6N is the one of the most popular, if not the most popular international competition in rugby that happens each year. Fans love it, financially it's great for six sides involved as it is.

    Why are we always talking about modifying it or implementing changes to suit teams that aren't in it? I realise that there was that big change from 5N to 6N there a while back, but can we not sometimes just leave a good thing alone?
    it is great for the 6 nations involved in it. But does nothing to grow the sport beyond the 6 sides. None of the 6 nations sides bar France do anywhere near enough to help develop rugby in the rest of Europe. I the sport globally isnt played by a lot of countries to high level and making changes to the top tier should help get more countries to the top in time


  • Options
    #6665
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,336 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    I'm not oblivious to that. I just don't see why changing the best thing going is the way to implement said growth in the rest of Europe.

    And no, I don't have a solution either. I'm just irritated about it.


  • Options
    #6666
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »
    I'm not oblivious to that. I just don't see why changing the best thing going is the way to implement said growth in the rest of Europe.

    And no, I don't have a solution either. I'm just irritated about it.
    except the best thing going doesnt help anyone outside the tip 6 keeping the 6 nations as it is will not get rugby to grow. Rugby can only grow when the top 10 in the world consistently play the countries ranked 10-20. We all go on about Georgia as being very good in terms of multiple European nations cups, coming close in world cups but they will only improve if they play 6 nations and rugby championship sides year in year out and its same with Fiji, Tonga, us, etc and in these countries as well as in the big nations venues.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6667
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    except the best thing going doesnt help anyone outside the tip 6 keeping the 6 nations as it is will not get rugby to grow. Rugby can only grow when the top 10 in the world consistently play the countries ranked 10-20. We all go on about Georgia as being very good in terms of multiple European nations cups, coming close in world cups but they will only improve if they play 6 nations and rugby championship sides year in year out and its same with Fiji, Tonga, us, etc and in these countries as well as in the big nations venues.

    We have the June and November series which could be used for playing against these sides. But instead we choose to maintain the status quo by continuing to generate revenue for the beleaguered southern sides. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul at best. Worst case scenario rugby dies in Australia and Argentina and Georgia improves a little.


  • Options
    #6668
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    pickarooney wrote: »
    We have the June and November series which could be used for playing against these sides. But instead we choose to maintain the status quo by continuing to generate revenue for the beleaguered southern sides. It's robbing Peter to pay Paul at best. Worst case scenario rugby dies in Australia and Argentina and Georgia improves a little.
    and in all these years how often have many of the 6 nations and rugby championship sides played the next tier down and how many times away from home?
    Rugby is dying in Australia because of many competitive alternatives to rugby union, rugby union in many areas has struggled to get beyond the fee paying schools who dominate and kids are turning from the sport and playing Pacific islanders preferring to play soccer etc


  • Options
    #6669
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Lot of talk about aligning the Northern and Southern hemisphere seasons but i dont like the sounds of Summer Rugby been touted for clubs from an injury point of view plus competing with other sports for players and spectators.
    Leinster Rugby has little to fear from GAA etc and Ulster Rugby the same but Munster and Connaught might find it more challenging in the summer months.


  • Options
    #6670
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,287 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Lot of talk about aligning the Northern and Southern hemisphere seasons but i dont like the sounds of Summer Rugby been touted for clubs from an injury point of view plus competing with other sports for players and spectators.
    Leinster Rugby has little to fear from GAA etc and Ulster Rugby the same but Munster and Connaught might find it more challenging in the summer months.

    I would think it’s only for professional teams that it’s to be aligned.


  • Options
    #6671
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Rugby IS actually played outside of South Dublin in Leinster and junior clubs would be utterly goosed by a summer season. It can’t happen in Ireland below AIL level or else I’ll be having very harsh words with John Hayes, the spiritual lord of junior rugby


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6672
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,386 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Rugby IS actually played outside of South Dublin in Leinster and junior clubs would be utterly goosed by a summer season. It can’t happen in Ireland below AIL level or else I’ll be having very harsh words with John Hayes, the spiritual lord of junior rugby

    It wouldn't even happen at AIL. It's just the pro game I'd say.


  • Options
    #6673
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    salmocab wrote: »
    I would think it’s only for professional teams that it’s to be aligned.

    That makes more sense , obviously no issue with players so but Munster wouldn't want to be playing the same time as a Limerick or Cork hurling match. Im sure fixtures could be flexible for the 2 or 3 potential clashes over a summer . Even Leinster might move a match time if Dublin are in yet another All Ireland Football final!


  • Options
    #6674
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Lot of talk about aligning the Northern and Southern hemisphere seasons but i dont like the sounds of Summer Rugby been touted for clubs from an injury point of view plus competing with other sports for players and spectators.
    Leinster Rugby has little to fear from GAA etc and Ulster Rugby the same but Munster and Connaught might find it more challenging in the summer months.

    Rugby currently competes with the vastly more popular sport of Association Football. The Premier League is king. I'm sure it could cope with competing against the GAA in the summer.


  • Options
    #6675
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    awec wrote: »
    It wouldn't even happen at AIL. It's just the pro game I'd say.

    I could definitely see it happening for the AIL, just to keep professional players aligned within the country. Of course then you’d have situations where junior sides at big clubs aren’t in sync with senior sides. But that may be seen as preferable to situations where academy or fringe provincial players could almost be playing 12 months a year


  • Options
    #6676
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    awec wrote: »
    It wouldn't even happen at AIL. It's just the pro game I'd say.

    Yeah the League of Ireland has a summer season, but all other soccer is still played in the traditional winter season. I'd expect rugby to be the same if the switch happened.


  • Options
    #6677
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,287 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Even Leinster might move a match time if Dublin are in yet another All Ireland Football final!

    IF?
    I love watching matches in the summer, the matches at the end of the season are enjoyable when they are in the afternoon. Sunny days sipping a beer watching sport is glorious.


  • Options
    #6678
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Lot of talk about aligning the Northern and Southern hemisphere seasons but i dont like the sounds of Summer Rugby been touted for clubs from an injury point of view plus competing with other sports for players and spectators.
    Leinster Rugby has little to fear from GAA etc and Ulster Rugby the same but Munster and Connaught might find it more challenging in the summer months.
    you dont have much experience of a lot of clubs in the province if you think leinster rugby has little to fear from the gaa.
    LuasSimon wrote: »
    That makes more sense , obviously no issue with players so but Munster wouldn't want to be playing the same time as a Limerick or Cork hurling match. Im sure fixtures could be flexible for the 2 or 3 potential clashes over a summer . Even Leinster might move a match time if Dublin are in yet another All Ireland Football final!
    leinster wouldnt want to play any games clashing with big games in croke park. You would lose a lot of casual fans who may turn up to a rugby game but wont when theres lots of club gaa games on every weekend.
    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Rugby currently competes with the vastly more popular sport of Association Football. The Premier League is king. I'm sure it could cope with competing against the GAA in the summer.
    it possibly could cope but why go up directly against club gaa games across the country. Never mind attending inter county games


  • Options
    #6679
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Rugby currently competes with the vastly more popular sport of Association Football. The Premier League is king. I'm sure it could cope with competing against the GAA in the summer.

    And of those fans who like most sports and will now have to pick and choose?

    A summer season for rugby is a terrible idea from an Irish sportsfan pov, well, in the sense of trying to be competing among the codes.

    Already the GAA condensing the championship has seen a fall off in crowds in earlier rounds of the championship because there's just way too many games in too short a period.

    Now add in Pro-14 and European rugby and for some like myself, the LOI and you have a shítshow in the making.

    The days of the siloed fan are over and we need to be careful with any changes to a well settled season set up.


  • Options
    #6680
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    And of those fans who like most sports and will now have to pick and choose?

    I don't get this bit. People who like most sports almost always include fans of the English soccer Premiership... which European rugby is currently competing with?


  • Options
    #6681
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I don't get this bit. People who like most sports almost always include fans of the English soccer Premiership... which European rugby is currently competing with?

    In Ireland it doesn't really compete though in the strictest sense with the EPL outside of a TV/barstool audience.

    The EPL is a passive sporting experience in Ireland.

    Those of us who go to live rugby and live GAA and live soccer are not passive sports fans in most sense.

    What you're competing with is actual fans who go to stadiums; so you're putting those who would usually go to a live ERC or PRO-14 game up against their typical summer fare of heading to Semple or Croker.

    The overlap live punters exists and it needs to be considered. The worst thing you can do in any sporting sense, which the GAA are learning, is turning those who go to live games into barstoolers if they have to pick and choose carefully, the live games that they can go to.

    I hope that makes my point a bit clearer.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6682
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    In Ireland it doesn't really compete though in the strictest sense with the EPL outside of a TV/barstool audience.

    The EPL is a passive sporting experience in Ireland.

    Those of us who go to live rugby and live GAA and live soccer are not passive sports fans in most sense.

    What you're competing with is actual fans who go to stadiums; so you're putting those who would usually go to a live ERC or PRO-14 game up against their typical summer fare of heading to Semple or Croker.

    The overlap live punters exists and it needs to be considered. The worst thing you can do in any sporting sense, which the GAA are learning, is turning those who go to live games into barstoolers if they have to pick and choose carefully, the live games that they can go to.

    I hope that makes my point a bit clearer.

    Well I totally disagree that Irish premier league fans are passive. That's not even remotely true. Irish soccer fans travel to England to watch their teams over there in very large numbers. I've learned that trying to fly into Leeds at the same time as some big game of theirs recently enough.

    Given the championship is played on Sundays, it won't be hard for broadcasters to schedule around.


  • Options
    #6683
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Well I totally disagree that Irish premier league fans are passive. That's not even remotely true. Irish soccer fans travel to England to watch their teams over there in very large numbers. I've learned that trying to fly into Leeds at the same time as some big game of theirs recently enough.

    Given the championship is played on Sundays, it won't be hard for broadcasters to schedule around.

    What?

    The lads who are flying into England to watch a match are irrelevant to summer rugby. They're making those choices already wrt rugby.

    Passive barstoolers are irrelevant because they aren't the sort to bother heading to The Sportsground of a July Saturday.

    If you're moving rugby into a summer that has never had it before you're suddenly competing with GAA and cricket; sports that have never had to compete with Rugby Union before (obviously Cricket in England competes with League). So it's imperative that if they reorient the calendar that it's done in a way that doesn't cannibalise an audience it already had in the winter calendar.

    Broadcasters schedules are only part of the solution.

    Keeping crowds need to be the priority and that's what I'm talking about.


  • Options
    #6684
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    What?

    The lads who are flying into England to watch a match are irrelevant to summer rugby. They're making those choices already wrt rugby.

    Passive barstoolers are irrelevant because they aren't the sort to bother heading to The Sportsground of a July Saturday.

    If you're moving rugby into a summer that has never had it before you're suddenly competing with GAA and cricket; sports that have never had to compete with Rugby Union before (obviously Cricket in England competes with League). So it's imperative that if they reorient the calendar that it's done in a way that doesn't cannibalise an audience it already had in the winter calendar.

    Broadcasters schedules are only part of the solution.

    Keeping crowds need to be the priority and that's what I'm talking about.

    Well that's exactly my point. They're already having to make those decisions in great numbers, and we all know there's a hell of a lot more premiership soccer fans in Ireland than there are league of Ireland fans. And rugby works around that just fine across the UK and Ireland. They're not going to change their approach for the smaller number of people who want to go to Tallaght stadium instead. And it's much easier to work around the GAA by just cutting down on Sunday rugby when there are championship games scheduled.

    And "passive barstoolers" are absolutely not irrelevant. That just sounds like snobbery. A lot of people watching premiership soccer in pubs are also STHs for rugby sides in Ireland, or are people who provinces will be trying to attract to come to bigger games and are exactly who TV broadcasters are after as well.


  • Options
    #6685
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    I’m sure it can be worked around but fixture planners would need to be prudent . Theirs probably more of a crossover of rugby and gaa fans than people realise , I’d be aware of plenty who’d go to all Leinster matchs and plenty of Dublin matchs . There’s no point having a Leinster pro 14 game in the same time as a Dublin later round football match or indeed a Kildare v Meath fixture . By the same token if there’s a Leinster champions cup fixture the GAA I’m sure are not going to put on one of Dublin's earlier round matchs which would lose out .

    This will play out similarly elsewhere Connaught aren’t going o play Pro 14 the same time as a Galway v Mayo fixture and it would be fairly quite in thomand Park if munster are playing pro 14 the same time as a Limerick hurling championship match . Champions cup games will win most punters but the pro 14 won’t need clashes. In Ulster I think rugby and GAA are two different communities so they will definitely be least impacted . Ulster will probably play their matchs the same time as the All Ireland finals .


  • Options
    #6686
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,815 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    How are London Irish affiliated with Irish rugby other than the name ?


  • Options
    #6687
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Well that's exactly my point. They're already having to make those decisions in great numbers, and we all know there's a hell of a lot more premiership soccer fans in Ireland than there are league of Ireland fans. And rugby works around that just fine across the UK and Ireland. They're not going to change their approach for the smaller number of people who want to go to Tallaght stadium instead. And it's much easier to work around the GAA by just cutting down on Sunday rugby when there are championship games scheduled.

    And "passive barstoolers" are absolutely not irrelevant. That just sounds like snobbery. A lot of people watching premiership soccer in pubs are also STHs for rugby sides in Ireland, or are people who provinces will be trying to attract to come to bigger games and are exactly who TV broadcasters are after as well.
    you also have to take into account club gaa and huge number of fans who would go to rugby games in winter but just wont when theres clashes with club gaa on top of intercounty games.
    LuasSimon wrote: »
    I’m sure it can be worked around but fixture planners would need to be prudent . Theirs probably more of a crossover of rugby and gaa fans than people realise , I’d be aware of plenty who’d go to all Leinster matchs and plenty of Dublin matchs . There’s no point having a Leinster pro 14 game in the same time as a Dublin later round football match or indeed a Kildare v Meath fixture . By the same token if there’s a Leinster champions cup fixture the GAA I’m sure are not going to put on one of Dublin's earlier round matchs which would lose out .

    This will play out similarly elsewhere Connaught aren’t going o play Pro 14 the same time as a Galway v Mayo fixture and it would be fairly quite in thomand Park if munster are playing pro 14 the same time as a Limerick hurling championship match . Champions cup games will win most punters but the pro 14 won’t need clashes. In Ulster I think rugby and GAA are two different communities so they will definitely be least impacted . Ulster will probably play their matchs the same time as the All Ireland finals .
    same with all counties in connacht, Munster, leinster. Summer change iant going to help development and growth of the game.
    PTH2009 wrote: »
    How are London Irish affiliated with Irish rugby other than the name ?
    amateur club is very linked to Irish rugby. Theyve an Irish owner now. Hired lot more Irish players. Quite few Irish players. Head coach and DoR are Irish, or long connections with Irish rugby


  • Options
    #6688
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,815 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    They should make London Irish an official affiliate to the IRFU and bring some players over too develope


  • Options
    #6689
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    They should make London Irish an official affiliate to the IRFU and bring some players over too develope

    With what money?

    As an English club London Irish get funding and salary cap credits by developing English players, an IRFU link isn't a runner.


  • Options
    #6690
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    They should make London Irish an official affiliate to the IRFU and bring some players over too develope
    they wont. If you want to develop more players then a pro14 A league should be in place to get squad players more games and keep them here but rfu, prl wouldnt want irfu having that influence in a side in premiership.
    Irfu have exiles set up up to 18s to develop bit sont go further beyond that


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #6691
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    David Corkery once again calling for structural change needed in AIL. Not sure many clubs would agree with changes
    Thoughts?
    https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/New-Sundays-Well-coach-David-Corkery-argues-structural-change-needed-in-AIL-02550b7a-b0e2-4fba-8e16-4027efb67543-ds


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement