General Rugby Discussion II

Yeah_Right

Excuse my ignorance here but I don't follow the GAA. I just jump on the Dublin bandwagon around quarter final time. The last couple of years it's been semifinal time.

The GAA teams don't play every week do they? Theres usually 3 or 4 weeks between matches isn't there?

BonnieSituation

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But you're talking as if it's the first time Leinster has ever had to deal with major competition

You keep looking at this from the wrong POV. Its not that Leinster have competition; it's the potential audience that has the competition to deal with with their time and money.

Are you a member of a rugby club? I had to give up my STH this year so I could play for a club that was a little bit too far away to justify keeping it, having tried it for a year and missing most of the games. When you play or are involved with a club you miss tons of pro rugby.

When you play or are involved in any sport locally you miss tonnes of everything!

Now suddenly if those seasons are offset there are lots of people who can now play/coach amateur rugby over winter and go regularly to watch professional rugby over the summer. I think people are overstating the impact of the competition against other sports rather hugely in this thread.

This is genuinely a great thing and like I have experienced in GAA and soccer it's often the volunteers that miss out due to scheduling.

I'm merely pointing out that rugby union in the NH is potentially landing in a part of the year where there are already well established traditions/sports and distractions.

So any discussion about changing the season needs to realise that there are potential pitfalls.

Holidays is certainly one. Big GAA weekends is certainly one (depending on exactly when that falls versus the stage of the rugby season). But I wouldn't necessarily assume all of this combined would lead to a decrease in attendances across the country.

My argument in all of this is merely about the awareness of the pitfalls that are there and that while there is an audience presently for a winter season, that that audience has other things it has been doing for the summer currently and to shoehorn one of their loves into that arena is going to make people make decisions that they don't want to make.

The GAA literally did this the last 2 seasons with the Super 8s and a contracted season which put more games into a shorter period so it was harder to go to games in the normal fashion. And the crowds for some games are testament to that.

Plus I'm the miserable sort that likes heading to Ravenhill in winter.

BonnieSituation

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here but I don't follow the GAA. I just jump on the Dublin bandwagon around quarter final time. The last couple of years it's been semifinal time.

The GAA teams don't play every week do they? Theres usually 3 or 4 weeks between matches isn't there?

There used to be a fair decent gap and traditional aspect to certain games so you could feasibly head to more than you can now. I know for me, the addition of extra games in the Super 8s has meant that I actually have seen less the last 2 years than my normal amount the previous 15 when they were spaced out.

Add in Pro-14 and HC to that... eesh...

awec

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here but I don't follow the GAA. I just jump on the Dublin bandwagon around quarter final time. The last couple of years it's been semifinal time.

The GAA teams don't play every week do they? Theres usually 3 or 4 weeks between matches isn't there?

It varies a lot between counties, and also as to which sports the counties are into.

Dublin would have a lot of support for both codes, and they obviously clean up at football but they're also decent at hurling.

Wicklow on the other extreme are horrendous at both codes, and are more likely to be spending their summers on the beach.

ScrubsfanChris

https://twitter.com/EllisGenge/status/1270341731519692801?s=19

The BBC then try and pass the buck to the agency in the comments.

stephen_n

https://twitter.com/tatianafats/status/1270308275133833218?s=21
Tatiana Fatialofa, pretty amazing considering what happened.

OldRio

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Anyone listen to the latest episode of House of Rugby where they had Sam Burgess on?

Went into the 2015 World Cup and his departure from Bath with a good bit more detail than came out at the time. Was pretty scathing in terms of Mike Ford's actions at the time, said it was clear that Mike was angling for the England job and was petty in terms of how he treated George getting put on the bench for the Wales game which in turn had a big knock-on effect in the dressing room.

Obviously just one side of the story but was great to listen to.

Andy Goode on 'The rugby Pod' pulls no punches.
'He lied to my face' was his take on Mike Ford.

errlloyd

OldRio wrote: »

Andy Goode on 'The rugby Pod' pulls no punches.
'He lied to my face' was his take on Mike Ford.

He's an absolute melt though. Politically antagonistic for the likes.

RugbyLover123

Can’t link it but I saw on my phone on Twitter what looked like Sale Sharks moving stadiums? I was under the impression they owned the AJ Bell and it’s only a few seasons old too?

blackwhite

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Can’t link it but I saw on my phone on Twitter what looked like Sale Sharks moving stadiums? I was under the impression they owned the AJ Bell and it’s only a few seasons old too?

Owned by JV between City of Salford and the owners of the nearby Trafford Centre shopping complex. Salford rugby league are the primary tenant.

Sale have a long-term lease I thought - would have been expensive to exit if true

BonnieSituation

They're looking to move back to Sale.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/37014/sale-sharks-plot-return-to-hometown-with-new-stadium-plans/

https://www.salesharks.com/2020/06/11/crossford-bridge/

Bazzo

The stadium is pretty good but it's a gigantic pain in the hole to get to. There's also a nearby sewage plant so it can smell uh.. slightly unpleasant...

Squidgy Black

blackwhite wrote: »

Owned by JV between City of Salford and the owners of the nearby Trafford Centre shopping complex. Salford rugby league are the primary tenant.

Sale have a long-term lease I thought - would have been expensive to exit if true

Idea has been floating around for quite some time. Diamond said back in early 2018 that if they didn't agree to a sale to them that they'd move back closer to Sale.

blackwhite

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Idea has been floating around for quite some time. Diamond said back in early 2018 that if they didn't agree to a sale to them that they'd move back closer to Sale.

Just reading there - still 17 years left on their lease.

Could be an expensive exit for them unless they’ve a break clause that wasn’t publicised.

Either way - makes sense to move back closer to Sale, instead of the middle of an old industrial estate that been converted to a retail park

troyzer

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but the FFR are refunding me for the Ireland match that was postponed.

I can only imagine that this means something has been decided behind the scenes.

BonnieSituation

troyzer wrote: »

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but the FFR are refunding me for the Ireland match that was postponed.

I can only imagine that this means something has been decided behind the scenes.

Did they tell you or had you been in contact?

I've gotten nothing anyway from them.

troyzer

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Did they tell you or had you been in contact?

I've gotten nothing anyway from them.

I sent them an email months ago when it was first postponed.

BonnieSituation

troyzer wrote: »

I sent them an email months ago when it was first postponed.

Ah grand. Yeah, I'm just letting it land where it does. Happy enough to head back over on 31/10 of it goes ahead.

Though, it has to be said the complete lack of any communication has been woeful in this case.

sydthebeat

https://www.pacificrugbywelfare.com/blog/prpw-board-additions

All Blacks Jerome Kaino, Ardie Savea, Anthony Tuitavake, Seta Tamanivalu and Ngani Laumape, Fiji’s Jim Nagusa, Josh Matavesi & Ilikena Bolakoro, USA’s Shalom Suniula & Andrew Duratalo, as well as Tonga’s Nasi Manu, added to an already prestigious list of names on the PRPW Board

Buer

So World Rugby are meeting today to discuss the global calendar. I'm cautiously optimistic as to the outcome.

From the reports, the potential line up of the season could look something like this:

January - April: Club rugby with the T14 potentially starting before Christmas due to the length of their season (similar to how their season goes longer and starts earlier as it stands)
May - June: Six Nations/Rugby Championship
July - August: Completion of domestic tournaments
September - October: The summer and autumn internationals condensed into a single, prolonged window.
November - December: Off season

If the above came to pass, it would mean the Six Nations is delayed by 3 months and the Rugby Championship is brought forward by 3-4 months.

The European domestic season would play in July and August which it hasn't before and, with the Rugby Championship now interrupting Super Rugby, they would potentially need to start in late January and play well into August to complete their seasons.

It also puts to bed the notion that all the movement would be done on the part of the northern hemisphere. There would be a fair bit of movement on both sides of the table.

I think overall it would benefit the game. Some will undoubtedly push back but I hope it comes to pass. The current approach just isn't conducive to teams playing each other at their peaks with lopsided matches taking place and exhausted teams flying to another hemisphere to face teams which are at peak performance. This, as we all know, is the actual reason Ireland has never won a test match in NZ.

The domestic season would receive a boost, I think. It would have a sustained run where the focus would be purely on club rugby without the interruption that the November tests provide. Interference from national set ups would potentially be reduced and the profile of leagues such as the Pro14 would benefit, to my mind. The media spotlight would remain more focussed on club rugby for that period.

It would also be of benefit to the non-test players. If the season finished at the end of August and resumed in January, that gives a 4 month off season which is massive. That would give a whole extra month for these guys to recover without playing any matches.

I think the 6N move would upset tradionalists who believe the Febraury/March window to be sacrosanct but I have very little issue with moving that to late spring. I've no love for these matches being played in muddy, wet conditions or, in rare cases, being under threat of postponement due to snow or frozen pitches.

They also need to incorporate a plan for the RWC. The RC is run on a reduced format to accommocate the tournament every 4 years. Would this be the case again and, if so, there's no way the 6N would accommodate this too. The knock on being that players would be flogged for everyone to keep their slice of the pie.

Former Former

Am I missing something from the above, or would a non-international player essentially go four months without a match? And if playing for a lesser club that doesn't make the playoffs, even longer?

It is definitely more of a shift for the NH countries. If the off season is now Nov/Dec, and Sept/Oct is reserved for internationals, some of which will be in the southern hemisphere, then rugby has basically moved from being a winter sport to a summer sport. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

Am I missing something from the above, or would a non-international player essentially go four months without a match? And if playing for a lesser club that doesn't make the playoffs, even longer?

Potentially, yes. I don't see that as a bad thing. It's also not that different from the current situation. For example, the Ospreys played their last game of 2017/18 on April 28th. They played their first game of 2018/19 on August 31st i.e. over 4 months without a match.

As it stands, Leinster's non-test players (as an example as they have reached finals in recent times) go from late May to late August/early September so 3 months without a match.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Am I missing something from the above, or would a non-international player essentially go four months without a match? And if playing for a lesser club that doesn't make the playoffs, even longer?

It is definitely more of a shift for the NH countries. If the off season is now Nov/Dec, and Sept/Oct is reserved for internationals, some of which will be in the southern hemisphere, then rugby has basically moved from being a winter sport to a summer sport. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Would a longer off-season not be better for those players? Is that not one of the benefits here?

Makes it much harder to break in to teams mid season of course, might see larger squads to account for that a little bit and keep fringe players up to speed

thomond2006

Top tier rugby having a global off-season would be great.

awec

If this reduces the amount of times clubs have to play without their test players then I'm all for it.

I'll miss the walk along the canal on a fresh, clear February lunch time toward LR, but feck it, May sounds great.

The Christmas / New Year derby games would be gone, but I think with the current setup they're using the whole home for Christmas so buy a ticket for the match thing as a crutch, whereas in future they'll have to rely on the standard of the product to keep punters coming through the gates.

Yeah_Right

thomond2006 wrote: »

Top tier rugby having a global off-season would be great.

I love how succinct this post is compared Buer's. It's the politest "shut up Buer" I've seen.

thomond2006

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I love how succinct this post is compared Buer's. It's the politest "shut up Buer" I've seen.

So what you're trying to say is Buer is a waffler.

salmocab

awec wrote: »

If this reduces the amount of times clubs have to play without their test players then I'm all for it.

I'll miss the walk along the canal on a fresh, clear February lunch time toward LR, but feck it, May sounds great.

The Christmas / New Year derby games would be gone, but I think with the current setup they're using the whole home for Christmas so buy a ticket for the match thing as a crutch, whereas in future they'll have to rely on the standard of the product to keep punters coming through the gates.

I haven’t done the maths but is the off season not a bit shorter so whilst there might be a crew extra weekends it’s not a huge amount so I’m not sure how much it will affect the internationals not playing club and I’m not sure players will be happy at how long their actual off season will be. If they are getting 2 months off season and pre season is 6 weeks it’s not much of an actual break. Especially someone who’s had a long season taking in a final or two and playing internationally.
I think there’s a long way to go on this.

Cookiemunster

salmocab wrote: »

I haven’t done the maths but is the off season not a bit shorter so whilst there might be a crew extra weekends it’s not a huge amount so I’m not sure how much it will affect the internationals not playing club and I’m not sure players will be happy at how long their actual off season will be. If they are getting 2 months off season and pre season is 6 weeks it’s not much of an actual break. Especially someone who’s had a long season taking in a final or two and playing internationally.
I think there’s a long way to go on this.

Today provincial preseason starts when the internationals are still away on their summer tours. Every player in Ireland gets three full weeks rest and will have a number of off weeks during the season. The internationals have a weeks holiday after the 6N for example(and possibly after the AIs too)

I don't really see any change other than preseason starting in November (now that's a nasty thought).

Former Former

salmocab wrote: »

I think there’s a long way to go on this.

Yeah, agreed.

This looks like a calendar that the unions have drawn up. It will be interesting to see how the English and French leagues react to it.