George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Danzy · 31-05-2020 08:45PM

walshb wrote: »

I am all for answers here.

But you cannot develop a “perfect” system. Because people are not perfect, and will always challenge and disagree

The real issue now is that what is goi g up happen every time an injustice, or perceived injustice visits a person, persons or minority group?

The cops still have to do their jobs. And in the U.S., with such diversity, this means that the job, at times needs real firmness due to the situations cops find themselves in.

I do think this race relation pushing is being dangerously exaggerated. This is not the fooking 1950s snd 1960s. But there is a real narrative being pushed to create a racial division, that is not near as bad as it’s being made out, and not near as bad as 50 and 60 years ago..

It's gotten to the stage now that the police are ignoring issues in African American areas, risk of making the news top high.

It isn't the young activist fighting for social justice living with that, they are largely in the nicest of areas.

Guy:Incognito · 31-05-2020 08:47PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I For example, apparently such pressure to the neck is an approved method of restraint by policy. .

Interviews in the last few days by police disagree and say its an outdated method, by decades in most places.

and even then , using your knee around the shoulder area is only for subduing them to get the cuffs on.

There is no way what he did was right, in any situation.

Stateofyou · 31-05-2020 08:47PM

2u2me wrote: »

You could both be right. Your story tells of a retired officer, perhaps the techniques have been updated.

Maybe so, he was only recently retired and looked young enough though so I'm not sure if anything would have changed. I'll try to find the link again and post.

Homelander · 31-05-2020 08:47PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

This whole post is inaccurate and racist and without care to all the relevant facts and circumstances.

Fact's can't be racist and can't be inaccurate unless they're wrong.

Context gives informed weight to facts. It doesn't change the facts.

Guy:Incognito · 31-05-2020 08:48PM

2u2me wrote: »

You could both be right. Your story tells of a retired officer, perhaps the techniques have been updated.

They have been, but not in the direction that would allow for what Chauvin did.

Nermal · 31-05-2020 08:49PM

Nozebleed wrote: »

what does the term white privilege mean to you?

Generally, it signifies that I can safely ignore whatever noise appeared before and after it.

Stateofyou · 31-05-2020 08:52PM

Homelander wrote: »

Fact's can't be racist and can't be inaccurate unless they're wrong.

Context gives informed weight to facts. It doesn't change the facts.

Your post didn't have a lot of "fact" first of all. Shallow understanding and manipulation of data can absolutely be racist and misleading.

BorneTobyWilde · 31-05-2020 08:54PM

walshb wrote: »

No matter what the “official” cause death is, Chauvin’s continued downward pressure on the man’s neck cannot be dismissed as just a cop doing his job..

He kept it there, even after he stopped moving, even after no pulse, even after they called an ambulance, even after ambulance arrived, even after they took out the stretcher, even after medic tried to help George, he still would not release, medic had to put his hand out and use arm to say
'' enough'' to get him off him

Why?
Because this guy could not bring himself to listen to the onlookers asking him to release his knee off of him. He's an absolute fcking moron of a cop, and so many are like him. Can't tell them the grass is green, they just won't listen.

statesaver · 31-05-2020 08:54PM

So, the pandemic is over now. Yeah ?

standardg60 · 31-05-2020 08:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What made it Jesus like then? Perhaps you should have just said prophecy if nothing about it was Jesus like.

He liked to prophesize.
You know, rising from the dead and all that :-)

statesaver · 31-05-2020 08:55PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

This whole post is inaccurate and racist and without care to all the relevant facts and circumstances.

Which are ?

Spanish Eyes · 31-05-2020 08:55PM

America in general is not a nice place to be living in now.

But what the heck I am not living there now either, so thankfully can opt out of the madness.

BorneTobyWilde · 31-05-2020 08:57PM

statesaver wrote: »

So, the pandemic is over now. Yeah ?

The protesters beat it up and burned it .

splinter65 · 31-05-2020 08:57PM

wandererz wrote: »

Cops in the US have a sense of superiority and no sense of protecting the community.

I would say the same about a section of our own Gardaí actually. Far too many of them see themselves as primarily law ENFORCERS as opposed to servants of the state. I lived I the UK and my experience of the police was that they were there to serve and protect.

Guy:Incognito · 31-05-2020 08:58PM

statesaver wrote: »

So, the pandemic is over now. Yeah ?

You going to throw this in every few hours till it takes hold cos it didnt the last time? Theres a whole coronavirus forum over there

>

Danzy · 31-05-2020 08:58PM

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Why are we so obsessed with America? Cops in several countrys kill people on a daily basis yet we only give a **** if it happens over there. The police in Israel shot and killed a guy today so where is the outrage for that? Why cant we just focus on our own country for now and let them worry about themselves.

The internet makes their news, our news.

It's deeply unwelcome.

BorneTobyWilde · 31-05-2020 08:58PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

America in general is not a nice place to be living in now.

But what the heck I am not living there now either, so thankfully can opt out of the madness.

They was a piece on the radio few weeks back, they were talking to people who left America when Trump took office, so many of them, no one will notice they're gone, but it was a lot.

walshb · 31-05-2020 09:00PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

This whole post is inaccurate and racist and without care to all the relevant facts and circumstances.

This post is really what is wrong here.

Throwing the racist card at a poster for simply telling a story of what is happening and reported in the U.S.

WhiteMemento9 · 31-05-2020 09:00PM

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Why are we so obsessed with America? Cops in several countrys kill people on a daily basis yet we only give a **** if it happens over there. The police in Israel shot and killed a guy today so where is the outrage for that? Why cant we just focus on our own country for now and let them worry about themselves.

You are in a thread where the topic of that thread is an event in America. What did you expect it to be discussing?

splinter65 · 31-05-2020 09:02PM

Stateofyou wrote: »

This whole post is inaccurate and racist and without care to all the relevant facts and circumstances.

....but you’re not in a position to refute any of the points in the post with points of your own.
You can’t because it’s completely accurate. What you want is that there be a whole separate set of rules for people of color.
What you want is a return to segregation. That’s interesting.

Danzy · 31-05-2020 09:03PM

walshb wrote: »

This post is really what is wrong here.

Throwing the racist card at a poster for simply telling a story of what is happening and reported in the U.S.

I have sinned against his religion.

I'm not too worried about it, everyone is a sinner to people like that. They'll go the same way as the 1950s Catholic Church did and for the same reasons.

Danzy · 31-05-2020 09:05PM

splinter65 wrote: »

....but you’re not in a position to refute any of the points in the post with points of your own.
You can’t because it’s completely accurate. What you want is that there be a whole separate set of rules for people of color.
What you want is a return to segregation. That’s interesting.

People like him see them as needing a needing a hero and protector.

What better than a rich kid with complete moral certainty in their holy righteousness.

standardg60 · 31-05-2020 09:05PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree. For example, apparently such pressure to the neck is an approved method of restraint by policy. I see few people inquiring why this is so, and if there are any guidelines in the policy as to when it is appropriate to do so. The initial thought is to investigate this as a policy and advocate for its change as appropriate.

By the definition of the curfew, yes, they were. As for the technique, it seems a rather efficient process. I mean, the cops could have walked up and thrown them back inside, or arrested them for curfew violation, or engaged in a five-minute civil discourse about the merits of the instruction, but the curfew was apparently enforced quickly, without injury or arrest, and the police went on their way.

"Apparently" ?????

Do please enlighten us as to the source of your apparence.

statesaver · 31-05-2020 09:05PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The protesters beat it up and burned it .

I found the guy who burned CorinaVirus. God be with him

https://twitter.com/Mrtdogg/status/1266952147834470408

golfball37 · 31-05-2020 09:05PM

walshb wrote: »

This post is really what is wrong here.

Throwing the racist card at a poster for simply telling a story of what is happening and reported in the U.S.

Agree it’s that sort of attitude that makes ordinary people sick of being labeled as something they are not elect someone like Trump.

standardg60 · 31-05-2020 09:10PM

Homelander wrote: »

Facts and impartial evidence that's relevant to an incident always have a place in any rational discussion.

Pointing that out isn't some endorsement of what happened, or slight against George Floyd.

Now, even if results came out and said the cause of death was nothing do do whatsoever with the knee of Derek Chauvin.

That would still be irrelevant to the obvious necessity for him to be fired from law enforcement permanently and charged, because what he did was completely unacceptable for any member of a police force - as was the behavior of his colleagues.

We should have the results of an independent autopsy shortly that will be made public. I'm awaiting the facts. More people should do the same.

RE: the preliminary autopsy. Saying his death was a result of police detention, existing conditions and intoxicants doesn't mean it was the knee. They found otherwise.

It could, and most likely means, the preliminary autopsy found that it was the duress of the situation, combined with the existing conditions, that contributed. For example, he may have had a heart attack.

And because I probably have to spell it out, that's not for a second any endorsement of the behavior of Derek Chauvin, or an attempt to "smear" George Floyd.

The former has zero excuse for his behavior, the latter had absolutely no valid reason to be treated like that and is 100% a victim in that case.

But medical experts have, in their preliminary findings, found it was not lack of oxygen that killed him. I'm not a doctor or any sort of medical expert so pending an independent autopsy I just have to keep it in mind and see what the final result is.

Obviously it's still a case where his completely unreasonable and disproportionate detention by Derek Chauvin can likely be held 100% responsible for bringing on his death, so regardless of what killed him, Derek Chauvin will likely still remain entirely responsible for being the catalyst.

Completely agree.

Danzy · 31-05-2020 09:10PM

golfball37 wrote: »

Agree it’s that sort of attitude that makes ordinary people sick of being labeled as something they are not elect someone like Trump.

They don't care, the more the people react against them, the greater their condemnation shall be.

They could give a **** about seizing power, it's about being able to judge and condemn.

It's a mindset, psychological, it takes different political or religious positions as times dictate.

MeMen2_MoRi_ · 31-05-2020 09:12PM

With regards the neck restraint..

"The Minnesota Professional Peace Officer Education System said in a statement Wednesday that the tactics seen in the video "do not appear to reflect the training that students receive."

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/george-floyd-experts-say-neck-restraint-allowed-minneapolis-can-kill/5274334002/

splinter65 · 31-05-2020 09:14PM

walshb wrote: »

This post is really what is wrong here.

Throwing the racist card at a poster for simply telling a story of what is happening and reported in the U.S.

A white saviour, I think the expression is.

Danzy · 31-05-2020 09:14PM

Homelander wrote: »

Facts and impartial evidence that's relevant to an incident always have a place in any rational discussion.

Pointing that out isn't some endorsement of what happened, or slight against George Floyd.

Now, even if results came out and said the cause of death was nothing do do whatsoever with the knee of Derek Chauvin.

That would still be irrelevant to the obvious necessity for him to be fired from law enforcement permanently and charged, because what he did was completely unacceptable for any member of a police force - as was the behavior of his colleagues.

We should have the results of an independent autopsy shortly that will be made public. I'm awaiting the facts. More people should do the same.

RE: the preliminary autopsy. Saying his death was a result of police detention, existing conditions and intoxicants doesn't mean it was the knee. They found otherwise.

It could, and most likely means, the preliminary autopsy found that it was the duress of the situation, combined with the existing conditions, that contributed. For example, he may have had a heart attack.

And because I probably have to spell it out, that's not for a second any endorsement of the behavior of Derek Chauvin, or an attempt to "smear" George Floyd.

The former has zero excuse for his behavior, the latter had absolutely no valid reason to be treated like that and is 100% a victim in that case.

But medical experts have, in their preliminary findings, found it was not lack of oxygen that killed him. I'm not a doctor or any sort of medical expert so pending an independent autopsy I just have to keep it in mind and see what the final result is.

Obviously it's still a case where his completely unreasonable and disproportionate detention by Derek Chauvin can likely be held 100% responsible for bringing on his death, so regardless of what killed him, Derek Chauvin will likely still remain entirely responsible for being the catalyst.

Good post and will take on board.

It's so good that you should probably be thread banned for derailing with considered reason.

George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

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