What’s wrong

Extrahotmocha · 30-05-2020 07:43AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

What you should have done, and what you should do in the future if this happens again, is say ‘Oh well I’m sorry to hear that cause I’m actually looking for something a bit more serious at the moment, you seem really nice though so if you change your mind about what you’re looking for in the future, give me a text’ and move on with your life.
There is zero point in entertaining men who aren’t available to you in the hope they’ll change their mind.

Just on this, I probably should clarify the initial conversation too. I asked him what he was looking for on Bumble on a date. He said (his exact words): to be honest, I was only looking for a hookup but then I met you and you’re far too interesting for that. That’s when I said the above, even down to the “if that changes line”. He responded by insisting that was no longer was the case, and he was coming at me with intentions to date. He said he was only trying to be honest, and wanted me to know that I had changed his mind.

Extrahotmocha · 30-05-2020 07:53AM

starrygleam11 wrote: »

Apart from online advice i think if u had a girls night or day meetup it could really help and lift ur spirits up after restrictions are lifted.Maybe a walk on the park with a picnic and girls talking about dating could be good for u ? Just an idea

That’s a really good idea

I think when I’m feeling up to it I will x

Hannibal_Smith · 30-05-2020 09:54AM

Extrahotmocha wrote: »

Thanks for this. I’m so sorry I come off as desperate, I don’t mean to. It’s painful to read that because I think back to a year ago when I first started dating, how I happy I was. People liked me and I was fun and interesting. I know I come across in this thread like a messed up girl who is so desperate she’ll sleep with any guy going for a bit of attention. And worse it seems like I’m ignoring you all which I’m really not. I really am listening to the majority opinion, I swear I’m taking it on board. It just seems like one steep forward, two back. I can’t thank every one enough, and your advice isn’t in vain. I will get there, and I promise to try and take all of what you guys have told me going forward. I do get lonely sometimes and go back on the app, and I shouldn’t. I know I’m not good enough for anyone decent right now - damage attracts damage. I’m working on it I promise.

OP, you don't sound as if you're not listening at all. You sound as if you're trying to take something from each reply so you can fix your situation. I'm so glad you're working through it all and I have to say, like others have said, you sound lovely.

I just wish you would stop beating yourself up and being so hard on yourself. It very much sounds like you're caught in a vicious circle and at the end of each turn you berate yourself and that's just going to make you feel even more miserable. Them deceiving you and leading you to believe you had something, is really their bad, not yours.

So, you've recognised in yourself why you've chosen the guys who haven't turned out as you hope. That's half the problem there. The other half is sifting those guys out. Presumably the lovebombing or something else was a common denominator in it all? And when those red flags appear you have to back off. You have to ignore that part of you that sparks up a hope that this could be it. My take on it all was that your gut told you to be wary? Listen to that gut feeling.

I get that it's all not that simple, but I bet if you look back on these guys you had them sussed each time initially and ignored it? Don't ignore that feeling or let them talk you round. Anyone with a bit of depth to them would understand you want to take things handy in the beginning.

leggo · 31-05-2020 08:41AM

Hi OP, you have some good lessons from this, which is really all you can ask for from dating until you meet the person you settle down with. That’s literally why we date: to get closer to the person we do like. So I wouldn’t be beating yourself up.

What have you learned here? As someone alluded to already, while yes people will outright lie sometimes to get what they want, within those lies will often be some key tells and truths if you know what you’re listening for. Example: “I was just looking for a hook-up...until I met you. You’re too interesting for just a hook-up.” Now I’m not saying that you being interesting is a lie, but it is blatant flattery that’s caused you to miss the huge dollop of truth he’s just dressed up there. There’s a great Mad Men quote that sums it up: “People tell us who they are all the time, but we don’t listen. Because we want them to be what we want them to be.” So you took a conversation that started with him telling you he just wanted to hook-up and translated it into your head as “we’ll just go slow”, because a relationship is what you wanted to happen regardless of what he was telling you.

A good exercise you can do here to make your more sharp to this is go back to that conversation in your mind. When he told you that, you said you felt a bit wary, but how did you feel within yourself? I mean that in terms of giving it some physical characteristics as best you can (doesn’t matter if they sound ridiculous, you don’t have to answer here or tell anyone). As you do, sit with that for a while and get familiar with it, even if it’s a bit weird or uncomfortable to do, remember it’s just an exercise you’re in full control over and can stop anytime so it’s safe to sit with uncomfortable feelings for a few minutes and will benefit you. That’s the feeling of your gut screaming at you. Now do the same for a few minutes with how you feel either now or at your lowest point after this fallout. It’s way worse right? That’s the feeling you get when you don’t listen to your gut screaming at you.

The reason this is a good thing to do is that, if you get familiar enough with these emotions, the next time you’re in a similar spot you’ll instantly know “Gut screaming at me, listen to it because not listening to this leads there.”

Of course, to fully be able to use these tools, you have to deal with a few other issues such as self-esteem so that you actually care about protecting yourself, loneliness so that you don’t see the risk as ‘worth it’, and so on. Counselling is a good place to put all of this into action and they can go in-depth while giving you a personalised gameplan to manage these things, and on the other side of it you’ll be a new person.

Big Bag of Chips · 31-05-2020 08:45AM

Posters are reminded to please not quote entire posts.

It clogs threads with duplicate text and makes it difficult to read for users on the touch site. On the touch site there is the option to "Clear Text" at the top of the text box. The text can also be edited to only quote the relevant part to be highlighted in the reply.

Conor Bourke · 31-05-2020 01:10PM

Extrahotmocha wrote: »

Just on this, I probably should clarify the initial conversation too. I asked him what he was looking for on Bumble on a date. He said (his exact words): to be honest, I was only looking for a hookup but then I met you and you’re far too interesting for that. That’s when I said the above, even down to the “if that changes line”. He responded by insisting that was no longer was the case, and he was coming at me with intentions to date. He said he was only trying to be honest, and wanted me to know that I had changed his mind.

I can't understand how you didn't recognise this for the glaringly obvious pickup line it is- it's as clear as day that he was blowing smoke up you ass.

Don't leave it 'til you meet the person to ask that question, you've already invested time and effort in them by that stage and he could obviously read you like a book.

Ask the question in the "chatting" stages on the app, before you even swap numbers. If you're afraid that this will put guys off- don't be! It'll only put off the ones you want to avoid in the first place.

Extrahotmocha · 31-05-2020 06:46PM

I’m still here guys, just reading quietly.

We had one last exchange via text that ended badly and now I’m worried I’ve hurt or upset him. We both ended up blocking each other (mature, I know). My head is so busy right now and I feel sick to my stomach with guilt.

Conor Bourke · 31-05-2020 07:25PM

Extrahotmocha wrote: »

<Snip> No need to quote the entire previous post. It just clogs the thread with duplicate text.

Why do you feel guilty? Who or what is it directed at- yourself or him? In either case, you shouldn’t have need to feel so unless you said something unpleasant to him in the heat of the moment. In any case, this comes back to the point I made about investing an awful lot of time and emotional energy into someone who really is little more than a stranger to you.

Do you invest as much of your time and efforts in yourself or your family/friendships?

Extrahotmocha · 01-06-2020 01:55AM

Cornelius Crow wrote: »

Why do you feel guilty? Who or what is it directed at- yourself or him?

Do you invest as much of your time and efforts in yourself or your family/friendships?

I’m not typically someone who gets into conflict. I guess I worry that when I say these things the other person might have stuff going on in their life I know nothing about, and I’m afraid I’ve caused additional upset. I don’t think I said anything cruel - I didn’t insult him, call him names etc. But I was harsh in spelling out what I thought he did wrong. Then I started thinking that maybe his sporadic messages were meant with good intentions, maybe he didn’t know how to tell me he wasn’t interested, maybe it was something I did to put him off.

Yes, you’re right. I don’t know him well or he me and I said that in the message. I even disagreed with some of the terminology he used as I felt it was too soon in getting to know each other to use it.

Across the board, yes I do sometimes feel insecure about other relationships in my life and put a lot of energy into maintaining them. Without getting into it, I have been known to be over generous with time and money. My boundaries have always been blurred and I forgive people that outsiders tell me I shouldn’t. I’m aware of it and have been working on it.

I think it boils down to me wanting to be liked by everyone, the root of which is my low self-esteem. Says ye all, shock, horror lol I’m so sorry for all this guys, I’m looking into myself to fix this and won’t blame these guys anymore for something that is fundamentally wrong with me.

LegacyUser · 01-06-2020 09:49AM

Please stay away from dating until you’ve had some serious therapy sessions. You’re in no place to date and you’ll only make yourself crazy repeating the same patterns over and over again. It made me sad to read your thread and see someone torture themselves the way you are.

Delete all the apps and stay away from men for at least a year. Get your head right first. A lot of therapists are doing remote sessions so you shouldn’t have a problem getting a session.

Given how you feel about yourself, you are seriously running the risk of ending up with an abuser. Your whole thread screams doormat, serial people pleaser, a deeply insecure, vulnerable woman who will be ripe for the picking by some bully who’ll walk all over you. You’ll be a beacon to these people until you get some help for your issues.

And you deserve better, OP. I hope you realise that.

SozBbz · 02-06-2020 11:00AM

Extrahotmocha wrote: »

We had one last exchange via text that ended badly and now I’m worried I’ve hurt or upset him. We both ended up blocking each other (mature, I know). My head is so busy right now and I feel sick to my stomach with guilt.

This is something I see from your posts over and over again.

Why do you worry about hurting this person? He's nothing to you and you're just someone he slept with, as evidenced by the way he treated you.

You need to accept the following;
- Its not possible for everyone to like everyone
- Its not realistic for everyone to walk away from encounters with only good things to say
- It doesnt matter what people say about you, with the exception of close family and friends.
- People are largely selfish, and don't spend as much time thinking about you (judging you/disliking you) as you think, mostly people are thinking about themselves.

You've said previously things like not wanting to seem crazy or be "that girl" who is viewed as demanding or desperate for commitment, by asking for what you actually want or for letting people know when they've been out of order. Now you're worried about hurting this guys feelings..... actually why? He wasnt too worried about yours when he looked you dead in the eye and BS's you in order to get his leg over. And why is it a problem for you that you ended up blocking each other? It was toxic for you and now he's out of sight and hopefully soon to be out of mind. Who do you think is judging maturity levels or otherwise?

On the subject of therapy, a previous poster said they werent sure you needed it because you sound intelligent and self aware. Therapy is not just for broken, stupid people, its for anyone who could benefit from it!

You do sound intelligent, but I wouldn't confuse being massively self critical with being self aware. For what its worth, my best friend sought therapy last year as she was coming out of a relationship which transpired to be pretty toxic behind the scenes and her self esteem had been eroded. It really helped her retrain her internal narrative and give her the strength to make the decisions she needed to make.

Shes an absolutely beautiful girl by anyones standards. Slim, long blonde hair, extremely pretty. Shes also got brains to burn and is very successful professionally. The fact that she got help when she needed it in my view is not some stain on her character, it actually shows her strength of character and determination to value herself.

Seeking therapy is not going to harm you - I know you mentioned privacy and judgement earlier but a professional will put you at ease - it can only help you.

bitofabind · 02-06-2020 11:47AM

Agreed with the above. Therapy therapy therapy, OP. All of these traits and behaviours from the chronic people pleasing to the zero boundaries to the dramatic non-starter flings are as a result of your low self-esteem. They've been building over a lifetime and won't go away easily. Why do you feel like you're 'not ready' to take this step? I've been around the block with these issues OP, and from personal experience I can tell you that this is the only answer.

Right now you are unable to forgive yourself for being human and feeling things or making mistakes, and every single thing you do is adding to your guilt and shame and self-loathing and round and round we go.

I'm 35 and therapy has been the first time in my whole life that I got to see that my feelings are valid and ok and all this time in life, I've just been doing my bloody best to survive and do the 'right' thing for others to the detriment of my poor old self. That my feelings and my pain "didn't matter".

I don't do that anymore. I have days where I can't talk to anyone so I set that expectation with my loved ones, "I'm going to be out of the loop today". When guys on dating apps want my number after five minutes of banter, I say no, not yet. I told a good friend I liked him last week after a few glasses of wine (I'm a terrible drinker) and instead of the usual shame and loathing, I've just been smiling and thinking, "well, maybe I do a little". Because those are my feelings and they are allowed, and valid, and invited.

I'm not a felon, I've not broken the law or murdered anyone, everything I've ever done has been from a place of wanting to help or not wanting to inconvenience others, so I've learned to stop treating myself and my own feelings like some sort of pariah. Your feelings and your needs don't go away. You just learn to ignore them and that's where you get into trouble.

I'm sure you'll be along shortly with your lovely people pleasing ways to thank me and acknowledge my post, but I'll ask you instead to do something else. Do something for yourself instead. Think about what it means when you try to win others over, when you refuse to say no to others, instead of looking too closely at yourself and what you need in life. And please, please think about therapy. There's so much help out there.

Extrahotmocha · 02-06-2020 01:54PM

SozBbz wrote: »

This is something I see from your posts over and over again.

Why do you worry about hurting this person? He's nothing to you and you're just someone he slept with, as evidenced by the way he treated you.

You need to accept the following;
- Its not possible for everyone to like everyone
- Its not realistic for everyone to walk away from encounters with only good things to say
- It doesnt matter what people say about you, with the exception of close family and friends.
- People are largely selfish, and don't spend as much time thinking about you (judging you/disliking you) as you think, mostly people are thinking about themselves.

You've said previously things like not wanting to seem crazy or be "that girl" who is viewed as demanding or desperate for commitment, by asking for what you actually want or for letting people know when they've been out of order. Now you're worried about hurting this guys feelings..... actually why? He wasnt too worried about yours when he looked you dead in the eye and BS's you in order to get his leg over. And why is it a problem for you that you ended up blocking each other

That list of things I need to remember is hard for me to process. While I completely understand and believe every point as fact, I struggle to accept that I couldn’t have handled the situation better and both of us would have walked away civil with one another. I just think my outburst might have come across as completely incongruent with my past behavior, in that I was very nice to him and casual when he kept changing his mind at the start. I don’t want to come across as embittered, and that I was only being that way to try and snare him and now he has outright rejected me I’m throwing a fit? That’s really not the case, I honestly just found his text so triggering after such a long time had passed. It was like something popped.

The blocking thing - it’s just something I’ve never wanted to do. It means I have failed big time I suppose, and others might hear and think I just can’t handle rejection? I don’t know, it’s hard to explain. But it circles right back to the list you sent, and how I just need to accept that not everyone will walk away with fond memories of me. A friend once said something that stuck with me - he said he didn’t think that I’d stay with any of these guys if my self-esteem wasn’t so low. He said it’s the idea of them rejecting me and thus making a judgement on my worth that I find upsetting, not their loss. I don’t know if it’s true, but it could be. I still like to give everyone a fair chance.

I absolutely agree. While I’m aware of my issues, I can’t seem to work through them alone. But my problem is I can’t see how anyone else can help. Plus, back to the judgement thing. I have to sit in front of a stranger and tell her how I’ve slept with 3 different guys in the past 5 months, and none have stayed. It terrifies me. I admire your friend, it’s so brave to seek out help professionally. In my head, I’m thinking she is different because someone did something really awful to her over a prolonged period of time - I’ve just made bad decisions and then blamed others. But then if someone came to me after sleeping with a few guys in a short period, I wouldn’t think twice. It’s such a weird headspace to be.

Thanks so much, genuinely. Your advice about counselling, particularly being self-critical vs being self-aware really hit home today.

starrygleam11 · 02-06-2020 02:01PM

Il give u another advice of what i observed recently in the dating world remember when you meet someone theyre still strangers ,

who most likely meet a ton of girls ur best bet is to meet and talk with few guys treat em as friends first unless ye two are super attracted and the guy knows what hes looking for theyre usually straighf forward about them ,

that way u can weed out the non interested ones and players in the future basically go into the dating world with no hopes ,

if you focus your energy on one guy and he doesnt work out u might end up getting hurt basically just have fun focus on spending nice time with quality people who u are able to share common interests as well as converstations.

I know its annoying but i noticed that's how most guys do it nowdays so why not try yourself

ShaShaBear · 02-06-2020 02:28PM

If somebody tells you an outright lie and uses you for sex, you do not owe it to them to be mature, civil or cordial.

Why on earth are you not worried about how he hurt your feelings?
Him blocking you is probably the best thing he could do for you to be honest, because after him using you, you seem to be willing to continue the line of contact indefinitely and are trying to make him see reason.

OP, my husband and I were a real "love at first sight" sort of thing. From the very first date, I was absolutely besotted and he with me. But neither of us would even dream of going heavy on the cuteness for fear of scaring the other off. You've literally spotted these men a mile off as being wrong for you, and you intentionally put aside what you know to be the case in the hopes that you can somehow change them. No man worth his weight in salt would dream of telling you "I wanted the ride but you're nice enough to date". A mature, grown man will know he wants a relationship with someone and will say that is what he is looking for.
You want a relationship, you need a mature adult to have it with - not a manchild who is claiming that he wanted to get his pipe wet, but after spending an hour with you, he's suddenly ready to consider commitment.

Dog day · 02-06-2020 03:02PM

OP, firstly let me just say that I really mean this statement kindly: if you could invest even half as much time in yourself as you seem to in the thoughts & opinions of these guys it would be time very well spent.

Although you say you’re hearing what everyone is saying to you in this thread it’s time to take concrete action. You’ve been given a lot of sensible advice here. I suspect you speak to your friends a lot about these issues too.

Unless you make seismic changes & work on your self esteem I fear that you’ll just keep encountering different versions of the same situation, over & over again.

You absolutely need to steer clear of dating for the foreseeable future until you value yourself more & stop attributing importance to people who simply don’t matter. Instead, invest energy in worthy relationships like those with family, friends & most importantly yourself.

Equally try to accept that meeting someone shouldn’t be seen as the ultimate goal in life.

It sounds trite but until you’re happy in yourself you won’t ever be happy with anyone else anyway.

Extrahotmocha · 02-06-2020 03:23PM

Dog day wrote: »

OP, firstly let me just say that I really mean this statement kindly: if you could invest even half as much time in yourself as you seem to in the thoughts & opinions of these guys it would be time very well spent.

Although you say you’re hearing what everyone is saying to you in this thread it’s time to take concrete action. You’ve been given a lot of sensible advice here. I suspect you speak to your friends a lot about these issues too.

It sounds trite but until you’re happy in yourself you won’t ever be happy with anyone else anyway.

Thanks so much, I definitely hear what you’re saying and I do place too much value in those I don’t really know well. I don’t actually chat to my friends that much about this - that person in particular I would meet for coffee and we would discuss our non existent love lifes once a month. I definitely wouldn’t tell him the extent of my interactions with these people, or how I feel about myself. He just made an observation when I was reminiscing over an ex he didn’t think was a good match for me anyway.

What I’ve learned from this thread is that the issue lies within me and when I’m coming on here, I’m asking the wrong questions. Like you say, concrete action the next step of which is being brave enough to speak to a person face—to-face. I’m so sorry to keep coming back here and annoying everyone with the same problem over again. I’m using this space inappropriately to vent, when I’ve come for advice. Time to take it

thank you so much!

Big Bag of Chips · 02-06-2020 07:15PM

Extrahotmocha wrote: »

I’m using this space inappropriately to vent, when I’ve come for advice. Time to take it thank you so much!

Venting is important! It helps you process. I often say that life isn't a soap opera where issues are resolved in a few episodes. By the time most people come to Personal Issues, the problem has been present and building for quite some time. It's not always going to be satisfactorily resolved after a handful of posts from well meaning strangers!

Be kind to yourself. You acknowledge a problem. You are listening to advice, and when you are ready you will implement the advice. But it's all a process. It's not a quick fix situation. You'll be OK. But it's going to take longer than your average soap opera story line!

starrygleam11 · 03-06-2020 08:46PM

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Venting is important! It helps you process. I often say that life isn't a soap opera where issues are resolved in a few episodes. By the time most people come to Personal Issues, the problem has been present and building for quite some time. It's not always going to be satisfactorily resolved after a handful of posts from well meaning strangers!

Be kind to yourself. You acknowledge a problem. You are listening to advice, and when you are ready you will implement the advice. But it's all a process. It's not a quick fix situation. You'll be OK. But it's going to take longer than your average soap opera story line!

Hey girl found a nice article here remember you are not alone

https://www.insider.com/lessons-from-going-on-14-first-dates-in-a-month-2020-5?amp

What’s wrong

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