Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Free Fall thread

13468919

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    No? Strange strawman argument to make.

    It looks like a steel framed building with concrete slab floors that collapsed due to fire, which burned in pockets of the building.

    WTC 7 was a steel framed building with concrete slab floors that collapsed due to fire, which burned in pockets of the building.

    Wheres the freefall in the Iranian video? Your imagination running wild it's the same collapse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Wheres the freefall in the Iranian video? Your imagination running wild it's the same collapse.

    Collapse was different cause was the same.

    Weidlinger study goes into excrutiating detail about why the collapse happened the way it did, and yes, it lines up with footage of the collapse

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    Collapse was different cause was the same.

    Weidlinger study goes into excrutiating detail about why the collapse happened the way it did, and yes, it lines up with footage of the collapse

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf

    You still have not noticed the flaw?
    A collapse on the eastside (no matter what study it is) will follow the same progression of failures across the entire building.
    NIST debunked the theory for all of them, and this would not lead to a free fall collapse.

    The Spin interesting watch.

    514379.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You still have not noticed the flaw?
    A collapse on the eastside (no matter what study it is) will follow the same progression of failures across the entire building.
    NIST debunked the theory for all of them, and this would not lead to a free fall collapse.

    Spin interesting.

    514379.png

    No need to rely on the NIST model. Here is a revised one, peer reviewed and award-winning

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    No need to rely on the NIST model. Here is a revised one, peer reviewed and award-winning

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf

    Where in the report do the mention freefall, what page?

    What do you mean by award winning?
    This was a court battle to win insurance damages for Silverstein


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Not according to the firefighters and eye-witnesses who were there

    – Photographer Steve Spak

    –Ground Zero Superintendant Charlie Vitchers

    –FDNY Lieutenant Robert Larocco

    –PAPD P.O. Edward McQuade

    - Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy

    –FDNY Lieutenant James McGlynn

    –FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti


    –FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers

    –FDNY Chief Medical Officer Kerry Kelly.

    Firefighter Vincent Massa

    There are a lot more of these..

    47 floors are on fire interesting., engulfed it :rolleyes:

    Reality is strange, aint it, when you see the actual images.

    514383.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    47 floors are on fire interesting., engulfed it :rolleyes:

    Reality is strange, aint it, when you see the actual images.

    514383.png

    Broad daylight reflecting off the glass. Of course you won't see inside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,704 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    47 floors are on fire interesting., engulfed it :rolleyes:

    Are you suggesting all these firefighters who were at the scene are mistaken, they are lying?

    wtc7-south-side-smoke-png.34593


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Are you suggesting all these firefighters who were at the scene are mistaken, they are lying?

    wtc7-south-side-smoke-png.34593

    Debunkers have not got a clue where there looking at it. They have no concept of time. This is the dust from when the towers collapsed pushing up against south face side.

    You see it here on the backend, early in the morning.
    514387.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Debunkers have not got a clue where there looking at it. They have no concept of time. This is the dust from when the towers collapsed pushing up against south face side.

    You see it here on the backend, early in the morning.
    514387.png

    I believe he was referencing all the first responders, ie. subject matter experts ie. witnesses on the ground who were there and saw WTC 7 burn down with their own eyes.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    I believe he was referencing all the first responders, ie. subject matter experts ie. witnesses on the ground who were there and saw WTC 7 burn down with their own eyes.


    We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors.

    I walked out and I got to Vesey and West, where I reported to Frank [Cruthers]. He said, we’re moving the command post over this way, that building’s coming down. At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor,

    Because it really got going, that building Seven, saw it late in the day and like the first Seven floors were on fire. It looked like heavy fire on seven floors. It was fully engulfed, that whole building.

    I think its a false memory, due to time, WTC5 was on fire most of the floors and was only 5 metres from WTC7. Some of the smoke is from there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors.

    I walked out and I got to Vesey and West, where I reported to Frank [Cruthers]. He said, we’re moving the command post over this way, that building’s coming down. At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor,

    Because it really got going, that building Seven, saw it late in the day and like the first Seven floors were on fire. It looked like heavy fire on seven floors. It was fully engulfed, that whole building.

    I think its a false memory, due to time, WTC5 was on fire most of the floors and was only 5 metres from WTC7. Some of the smoke is from there.

    What are you talking about?

    You were there now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    You were there now?

    This the top of the building where the fires are supposedly engulfing every floor point it out to me?

    514389.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,112 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    weisses wrote: »
    Mandatory listening when replying :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This the top of the building where the fires are supposedly engulfing every floor point it out to me?

    That doesn't answer my question.

    Now, for some Moderation:

    uploading the same images constantly is going to stop now.

    If you want to quote an article, paper, essay, etc. - link to it, do not upload an image of it.

    If you want to repeat the same image over and over in several posts - link back to it. Don't keep uploading it.

    Continuation of this abuse of the site file attachments systems will be escalated to admins to sort out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    That doesn't answer my question.

    Now, for some Moderation:

    /B]

    It answered your question. Where the fires? Show them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,704 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Debunkers have

    The people I quoted, firefighters, lieutenants, fire-chiefs and witnesses who were physically on the scene and saw the building first hand, some of the descriptions:

    "We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors."

    "Building #7 was still actively burning and at that time we were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable."

    Do you believe you know more than these people?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The people I quoted, firefighters, lieutenants, fire-chiefs and witnesses who were physically on the scene and saw the building first hand, some of the descriptions:

    "We walked over by number Seven World Trade Center as it was burning and saw this 40-plus story building with fire on nearly all floors."

    "Building #7 was still actively burning and at that time we were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable."

    Do you believe you know more than these people?

    I believe my own eyes, I Can see the images and photograph of the buildings just before collapse. The buildiing was not engulfed in fire.

    You found quotes have you talked to them personally? Where you find these quotes, who interviewed them, stuff like that.

    Fire collapse argument fallen apart hours ago. There no freefall in the NIST progressive collapse scenario, end of the story. I rest my case, can close the thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    Broad daylight reflecting off the glass. Of course you won't see inside.

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I believe my own eyes, I Can see the images and photograph of the buildings just before collapse. The buildiing was not engulfed in fire.

    You found quotes have you talked to them personally? Where you find these quotes, who interviewed them, stuff like that.

    They aren't your own eyes. You are seeing things picked up by a camera circa 2001.

    Also I'm fairly sure the glass is tinted.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 17,704 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I believe my own eyes,

    Haha!

    You were shown a photo and you literally saw something that no one else saw - so that's completely false right off the bat

    Secondly, you weren't there, these witnesses were, they saw it with their own eyes..

    Thirdly, how on earth do you deal with most of history, there isn't "footage" of the Battle of Cannae, you didn't see it with your own eyes, so according to you it didn't happen right..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    They aren't your own eyes. You are seeing things picked up by a camera circa 2001.

    Also I'm fairly sure the glass is tinted.

    How did we see the fires inside the building between 1 and 2pm :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Haha!

    You were shown a photo and you literally saw something that no one else saw - so that's completely false right off the bat

    Secondly, you weren't there, these witnesses were, they saw it with their own eyes..

    Thirdly, how on earth do you deal with most of history, there isn't "footage" of the Battle of Cannae, you didn't see it with your own eyes, so according to you it didn't happen right..

    I have shown the actual image of the building before collapse no fires. You want to believe there fires are there based on nothing but quotes you found online :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,340 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Looking south, in the morning/afternoon so the image is lit from the back.
    The fires starting on the opposite side of the building.
    Internal screen walls, backlit image and tinted glass all contributing to lack of visible fire on the north side of the image with traffic lights that was shared.

    Any photos of the southside of WTC7 taken post collapse of WTC1 + 2 showing the intact flame free building?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,704 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You found quotes have you talked to them personally? Where you find these quotes, who interviewed them, stuff like that.

    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires
    Fire collapse argument fallen apart hours ago.

    Here are quotes from the firefighters and fire chiefs that demonstrate their concern of the imminent collapse of WTC 7
    1) Firefighter Thomas Smith: "They backed me off the rig because seven was in dead jeopardy, so they backed everybody off and moved us to the rear end of Vesey Street. We just stood there for a half hour, 40 minutes, because seven was in imminent collapse and finally did come down." (Interview, 12/6/2001)

    2) Firefighter Vincent Massa: "At this point Seven World Trade Center was going heavy, and they weren't letting anybody get too close. Everybody was expecting that to come down. ... I remember later on in the day as we were waiting for seven to come down, they kept backing us up Vesey, almost like a full block. They were concerned about seven coming down, and they kept changing us, establishing a collapse zone and backing us up." (Interview, 12/4/2001)

    3) Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy: "Then, like I said, building seven was in eminent collapse. They blew the horns. They said everyone clear the area until we got that last civilian out. We tried to give another quick search while we could, but then they wouldn't let us stay anymore. So we cleared the area. ... So yeah, then we just stayed on Vesey until building seven came down." (Interview, 12/30/2001)

    4) Indira Singh, a volunteer EMT: "What happened with that particular triage site is that pretty soon after noon, after midday on 9/11, we had to evacuate that because they told us Building 7 was coming down. ... I do believe that they brought Building 7 down because I heard that they were going to bring it down because it was unstable, because of the collateral damage. ... By noon or one o'clock they told us we had to move from that triage site up to Pace University, a little further away, because Building 7 was gonna come down or being brought down. ... There was another panic around four o'clock because they were bringing the building down and people seemed to know this ahead of time, so people were panicking again and running." (KPFA, 4/27/2005)

    5) EMT Joseph Fortis: "When the third building came down, we were on that corner in front of the school, and everybody just stood back. They pulled us all back at the time, almost about an hour before it, because they were sure -- they knew it was going to come down, but they weren't sure. So they pulled everyone back, and everybody stood there and we actually just waited and just waited and waited until it went down, because it was unsafe." (Interview, 11/9/2001)

    6) Fire Chief Thomas McCarthy: "So when I get to the command post, they just had a flood of guys standing there. They were just waiting for 7 to come down. ... I made it down Vesey Street to just in front of the overpass of 7 World Trade. People were saying don't stand under there, it's going to come down. ... So at that point we were a little leery about how the bridge was tied in, so no one was really going onto it, and then they were also saying 7 was going to come down. They chased everyone off the block." (Interview, 10/11/2001)

    7) Firefighter Matthew Long: "And at that point they were worried that 7 was coming down so they were calling for everyone to back out. ... Because they were just adamant about 7 coming down immediately. I think we probably got out of that rubble and 18 minutes later is when 7 came down." (Interview, 10/9/2001)

    8) Firefighter Edward Kennedy: "That was the only Mayday that I remember, and to tell you the truth, the only guy that really stands out in my mind that I remember being on the radio was Chief Visconti. ... I remember him screaming about 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse, they don't know when, but it's definitely going to come down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an order, you know, stuff like that." (Interview, 1/17/2002)

    9) Paramedic Louis Cook: "We got to Chambers and Greenwich, and the chief turns around and says, 'There's number Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker.' We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse. ... We hear over the fire portable, 'Everybody evacuate the site. It's going to collapse.' Mark Steffens starts yelling, 'Get out of here! Get out of here! Get out of here! We've got to go! We've got to go! It's going to collapse.' ... We pulled the car over, turned around and just watched it pancake." (Interview, 10/17/2001)

    10) Battalion Fire Chief John Norman: "After we found Chief Ganci, in addition to recon, I was detailed to make sure the collapse zone for 7 WTC had been set up and was being maintained. The sector commanders were trying to clear out of that area. We expected it to fall to the south, into the areas we were searching." (John Norman, "Search and Rescue Operations," Fire Engineering, 10/2002)

    John Norman (in another account): "Now we're still worried about 7. We have guys trying to make their way up into the pile, and they're telling us that 7 is going to fall down - and that was one of the directions from the command post, to make sure we clear the collapse zone from 7 and this is a 600-foot-tall building, so we had to clear a 600-foot radius from that building." ("WTC: This Is Their Story," Firehouse, 5/2002)

    11) Deputy Fire Chief Nick Visconti: "Now, World Trade Center 7 was burning and I was thinking to myself, how come they're not trying to put this fire out? ... At some point, Frank Fellini said, now we've got hundreds of guys out there, hundreds and hundreds, and that's on the West Street side alone. He said to me, Nick, you've got to get those people out of there. I thought to myself, out of where? Frank, what do you want, Chief? He answered, 7 World Trade Center, imminent collapse, we've got to get those people out of there. ... There were a couple of chiefs out there who I knew and I called them individually. I said to them, listen, start backing those people out, we need them back up to the command post. While this was going on, I saw individual company officers. I was whistling, Captain, bring your guys this way. I was getting some resistance. The common thing was, hey, we've still got people here, we don't want to leave. I explained to them that we were worried about 7, that it was going to come down and we didn't want to get anybody trapped in the collapse. One comment was, oh, that building is never coming down, that didn't get hit by a plane, why isn't somebody in there putting the fire out? A lot of comments, a bit of resistance, understandable resistance." ("WTC: This Is Their Story," Firehouse, 8/2002)

    12) Firefighter James Wallace: "They were saying building seven was going to collapse, so we regrouped and went back to our rig. We went to building four or three; I don't know. We were going to set up our tower ladder there. They said no good because building seven is coming down." (Interview, 12/29/2001)

    13) Fire Captain Robert Sohmer: "As the day went on they started worrying about 7 World Trade Center collapsing and they ordered an evacuation from that area so at that time, we left the area with the other companies, went back to the command post on Broadway ... We were about to proceed our operation there and this was in the afternoon, I would say approximately maybe 2:00 roughly, where we started to operate and then they asked us to fall back again due to the potential of 7 World Trade Center collapsing." (Interview, 1/17/2002)

    14) Fire Lieutenant William Ryan: "Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 o'clock, that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, we've got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. ... So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and that's when 7 collapsed." (Interview, 10/18/2001)

    15) Fire Captain Brenda Berkman: "We no sooner got going on something there when a chief came along and said, 'Everybody's got to leave the area. We're afraid that Seven World Trade is going to fall down.' The whole south side of Seven World Trade had been hit by the collapse of the second Tower, and there was fire on every floor." (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 213)

    FireWork newsletter (adding to Berkman's account): "After being ordered back because of the fear that yet another building was about to collapse (7 World Trade Center, 40+ stories), Brenda [Berkman] and her crew went to find other firefighters who might have some tools or a radio. ... That afternoon, 7 World Trade Center came down. 'We had cleared an enormous collapse zone for that, and it still wasn't big enough. When the thing came down, the rubble and the dust came across the West Side Highway, over and past the rubble from the towers that was there.'" (Linda Willing, "Report from Ground Zero: The World Trade Center Collapse," FireWork, 9/2001)

    16) Firefighter Maureen McArdle-Schulman: "At that point, Seven World Trade had 12 stories of fire in it. They were afraid it was going to collapse on us, so they pulled everybody out. We couldn't do anything." (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 17)

    17) Firefighter Pete Castellano: "We were ordered down from the tower ladder because of a possible collapse at Tower 7." (Interview, 12/28/2001)

    18) Firefighter Brian Fitzpatrick: "We were then positioned on Vesey Street between North End and the West Side Highway because there was an imminent collapse on 7 World Trade, and it did collapse." (Interview, 12/6/2001)

    19) Firefighter Christopher Patrick Murray: "Probably about 4:00 o'clock, 5:00 o'clock, our radios went dead, because we heard reports all day long of 7 World Trade possibly coming down and I think at 5:30 that came down." (Interview, 12/12/2001)

    20) Firefighter Kevin McGovern: "Actually I think at that point just as we were leaving, guys -- I don't know who it was. I guess it was a chief was saying clear the area, because they were worried about number Seven World Trade Center coming down and burying guys who were digging. So we basically went back to the rig, because they were clearing that area out. It took about three hours for Seven World Trade Center to actually come down." (Interview, 12/11/2001)

    21) Firefighter George Holzman: "We stayed there for quite sometime when I don't even know who, I think it was someone, Lieutenant Lowney spoke to, asked us to leave the area, they were concerned about 7 World Trade Center collapsing." (Interview, 1/17/2002)

    22) Byron Pitts, CBS News correspondent: "About an hour ago, World Trade Center building number 7 collapsed. ... It was the one calamity that was not a surprise. Police had evacuated the area hours ago, fearful building number 7 would indeed fall down." (CBS News, 9/11/2001)

    23) Kansas City Star: "About 4:30 p.m., word went out to evacuate the area. Officials were worried that Building 7 of the Trade Center complex would collapse." (David Hayes, "Amid despair, photographer's work brought hope," Kansas City Star, 3/28/2004)

    24) Tom Franklin, photographer: "It was about 4 p.m., and they were anticipating Seven World Trade Center collapsing. The firemen were leaving en masse." (Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, p. 204)

    Tom Franklin (in another account): "It was 4:45 p.m., and all the firemen and rescue workers were evacuating Ground Zero after word came that a third building -- WTC 7 -- was ready to fall." (Tom Franklin, "The After-Life of a Photo that Touched a Nation," Columbia Journalism Review, 3/1/2002)

    25) Mark Jacobson, reporter, New York Magazine: "Hours later, I sat down beside another, impossibly weary firefighter. ... Then, almost as a non sequitur, the fireman indicated the building in front of us, maybe 400 yards away. 'That building is coming down,' he said with a drained casualness. 'Really?' I asked. At 47 stories, it would be a skyscraper in most cities, centerpiece of the horizon. But in New York, it was nothing but a nondescript box with fire coming out of the windows. 'When?' 'Tonight ... Maybe tomorrow morning.' This was around 5:15 p.m. I know because five minutes later, at 5:20, the building, 7 World Trade Center, crumbled." (Mark Jacobson, "The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll," New York Magazine, 3/27/2006)

    26) Paramedic Joseph Cahill: "The reason we were given for why we were moving was that 7 World Trade Center was going to collapse or was at risk of collapsing. So we must have been somewhere in this area where we would have had a problem with that. ... They wanted us to move the treatment sector because of 7 World Trade Center was imminently to collapse, which, of course, it did." (Interview, 10/15/2001)

    27) EMT Mercedes Rivera: "At that point, they said that Seven World Trade had no face and it was ready to collapse." (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 29)

    28) Christine Haughney, reporter, Washington Post: "Then a policeman directed me north. The Solomon Smith Barney building--Building Seven--was about to collapse." (Chris Bull and Sam Erman, At Ground Zero, 2002, p. 17)

    29) Peter DeMarco, reporter, New York Daily News: "Seven or eight blocks down Greenwich Street, the No. 7 World Trade building, a smaller, forty-story structure, was on fire. The street was closed; the building was going to collapse." (Chris Bull and Sam Erman, At Ground Zero, 2002, p. 97)

    30) Fire Chief Joseph Pfeifer: "Yes, I watched 7. At one point, we were standing on the west side of West Street and Vesey. And I remember Chief Nigro coming back at that point saying I don't want anybody else killed and to take everybody two blocks up virtually to North End and Vesey, which is a good ways up. And we stood there and we watched 7 collapse." ("WTC: This Is Their Story," Firehouse, 4/2002)

    31) Battalion Fire Chief Frank Congiusta: "While we were searching the subbasements, they decided that Seven World Trade Center, which was across the street, was going to collapse. So they called us out. ...When I came out, they were calling us on the radio to tell us to get out. Then I reported that the search was negative, and then they wouldn't let anybody near the site pretty much, because Seven World Trade Center was going to come down." (Interview, 1/8/2002)

    32) EMT Jason Charles: "So we started heading over to where Building 7 was at and they were like Building 7 is going to collapse, you can't go over there, this and that, and there was another building that they thought was going to collapse that was like right behind the triage center, the building that we were in." (Interview, 1/23/2002)

    33) Fire Lieutenant Roy David: "At Pace University we had -- we set up -- I'm sorry, we set up in that lobby of that building, the lobby and the actual whole first floor. There was a threat of collapse of building number seven, so 225, we had to evacuate it." (Interview, 10/12/2001)

    34) EMT Decosta Wright: "They said -- we were like, are you guys going to put that fire out? I was like, you know, they are going to wait for it to burn down and it collapsed. ... Yes, so basically they measured out how far the building was going to come, so we knew exactly where we could stand. ... 5 blocks. 5 blocks away. We still could see. Exactly right on point, the cloud just stopped right there. Then when that building was coming down, the same thing, that same rumbling." (Interview, 10/11/2001)

    35) Fire Lieutenant Rudolf Weindler: "I ran into Chief Coloe from the 1st Division, Captain Varriale, Engine 24, and Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did." (Interview, 1/15/2002)

    36) Liz Gonzalez, reporter, Telemundo/Channel 47: "They started evacuating the area because they thought a third building was going to go down. We decided to stay. We saw the third building crash." (Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, p. 209)

    37) Sara Kugler, reporter, the Associated Press: "I saw hundreds of firefighters leaning against buildings, sitting on trucks, eating fruit and water that the Red Cross was handing out. 'Where are all the injured?' I asked. 'They are not letting us in. It's not stable,' said the firefighters. ... All of a sudden Seven World Trade Center started to collapse." (Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, p. 210)

    1) Fire Chief Frank Fellini: "The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. ... We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex. Eventually around 5:00 or a little after, building number seven came down." (Interview, 12/3/2001)

    2) Fire Chief Daniel Nigro: "The biggest decision we had to make on the first day was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building heavily involved in fire. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt. I issued the orders to pull back the firefighters and define the collapse zone. It was a critical decision; we could not lose any more firefighters. It took a lot of time to pull everyone out, given the emotionalism of the day, communications difficulties, and the collapse terrain." (Daniel Nigro, "Report from the Chief of Department," Fire Engineering,9/2002)

    Daniel Nigro (in another account): "I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn't lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was given, at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely." (Interview, 10/24/2001)

    3) Fire Chief Frank Cruthers: "Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area ... be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it." (Interview, 10/31/2001)

    Frank Cruthers (in another account): "Of primary importance early on in the operation was the structural condition of 7 World Trade Center. Assistant Chief Frank Fellini had been approached by several chiefs who were concerned about its stability. It had been heavily damaged in the collapse and was well-involved in fire. Chief Fellini had looked at it and described to us some damage to its south side; he felt that structural components of the building had been comprised. So when Chief Dan Nigro arrived at the command post, he convened a meeting of staff chiefs, and this was a major subject of the meeting. We were all in accord about the danger of 7 WTC, and we all agreed that it was not too conservative of a decision to establish a collapse zone for that building, move the firefighters out of the collapse area, and maintain that strategy." (Frank Cruthers, "Postcollapse Command," Fire Engineering, 9/2002)

    4) Fire Captain Ray Goldbach: "There was a big discussion going on at that point about pulling all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center. Chief Nigro didn't feel it was worth taking the slightest chance of somebody else getting injured. So at that point we made a decision to take all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center because there was a potential for collapse. ... Made the decision to back everybody away, took all the units and moved them all the way back toward North End Avenue, which is as far I guess west as you could get on Vesey Street, to keep them out of the way." (Interview, 10/24/2001)

    5) Fire Engineering magazine: "FDNY chief officers surveyed 7 WTC and determined that it was in danger of collapse. Chief Frank Cruthers, now the incident commander, and Chief Frank Fellini, the operations commander, both agreed that a collapse zone had to be established. That meant firefighters in the area of the North Tower had to be evacuated. This took some time to accomplish because of terrain, communications, and the fierce determination with which the firefighters were searching. At 5:30 p.m., about 20 minutes after the last firefighters evacuated the collapse zone, 7 WTC collapsed. It was the third steel-frame high-rise in history to collapse from fire--the other two had collapsed earlier that day." ("World Trade Center Disaster: Initial Response," Fire Engineering, 9/2002)


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I have shown the actual image of the building before collapse no fires. You want to believe there fires are there based on nothing but quotes you found online :)

    The image you posted clearly shows fire out of broken windows

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=514374&stc=1&d=1590521726

    Though we are, as of yet, unclear where you sourced this photo from, or what time it was actually taken at.

    In the Weidlinger report, on page B-4 of Appendix B we see in figure 1 (p 136/459) that the windows of WTC 7 are indeed tinted and mirrored.

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/eyewitnessaccountsofwtc7fires



    Here are quotes from the firefighters and fire chiefs that demonstrate their concern of the imminent collapse of WTC 7

    Fire collapse has already got disproven in this thread. You don't understand the models that your problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,129 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Fire collapse has already got disproven in this thread. You don't understand the models that your problem.

    The Weidlinger model clearly demonstrates in scientific fashion that fires indeed caused the collapse of WTC 7

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,704 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Fire collapse has already got disproven in this thread.

    Not in the slightest.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Overheal wrote: »
    The Weidlinger model clearly demonstrates in scientific fashion that fires indeed caused the collapse of WTC 7

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/tt_assets/pdf/WTC_7_Collapse_Analysis_and_Assessment_Report.pdf

    I have shown you why thats not the case starting at 106 page down.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058013685&page=8

    You also ignored me where in this report do they mention freefall?
    What page?


Advertisement