Grandpa is a kind, generous man but he's racist. Is he a bad person?

Church on Tuesday · 21-05-2020 07:11PM

I'll excuse the older generation for their out dated stereotypical views but if you judge someone by the color of their skin and are under 60 you are, quite frankly, pond life.

Thelonious Monk · 21-05-2020 07:58PM

Having any kind of misconceptions and prejudices against people when you have no basis for it is idiotic really regardless of age. You can excuse some things from different times, but if there's any malice or venom involved, they're just bitter people. Sure, times were different back then, but I bet he would have hated people from the next county too.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 08:12PM

afro man wrote: »

Think term is coloured. But may be wrong agai

LOL. I get it. You're messing.

But I hope it demonstrates the point that everyone knows the normal term for black people, is black. And it's completely normal and not controversial.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 08:17PM

Motivator wrote: »

...

Most elderly people in Ireland (70+) would probably be classed as racists nowadays but they aren’t racist, they’re a product of their environment and their formative years would have been spent having a negative view of black people due to the popular culture back then.

Well, if they hold those negative views then yes, they're racist. It doesn't really matter how they got the views.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 08:23PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I'll excuse the older generation for their out dated stereotypical views but if you judge someone by the color of their skin and are under 60 you are, quite frankly, pond life.

Yeah but the older people can still learn from new information. They might be racist because ethey grew up racist, but if they can't figure it out then that's it, theyre racist.

People give old people great credit for being wise. If they're racist, I'd question the relevance of their "wisdom".

And you're suggesting old people can't learn so now if really doubt the wisdom of old people

cfuserkildare · 21-05-2020 08:24PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well, if they hold those negative views then yes, they're racist. It doesn't really matter how they got the views.

How racist is it to want to preserve your national identity and history?

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 08:28PM

cfuserkildare wrote: »

How racist is it to want to preserve your national identity and history?

No no.

This is what I was replying to

"Most elderly people in Ireland (70+) would probably be classed as racists nowadays but they aren’t racist, they’re a product of their environment and their formative years would have been spent having a negative view of black people due to the popular culture back then"

It was about them being racist because they learned to be racist when they were growing up. Nothing to do with what you said. So... gerr'up outta that.

StackSteevens · 21-05-2020 08:29PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Start off by insisting he call them African-Americans instead of blacks.

Why should someone else's grandfather have to pander to your sensibilities?

Pops_20 · 21-05-2020 08:31PM

cfuserkildare wrote: »

How racist is it to want to preserve your national identity and history?

Are you suggesting our national identity and history are under threat?

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 08:34PM

StackSteevens wrote: »

Why should someone else's grandfather have to pander to your sensibilities?

First off, it was a joke as black people in Ireland probay aren't African American.

Secondly, you call it pandering wherepst people would call it normal decency. If a English person insisted on calling Irish people "paddy" instead of Irish, it's a fairly strong indication that they're a dickhead.

ThewhiteJesus · 21-05-2020 08:35PM

coinop wrote: »

My grandfather was born during the Emergency years in the 1940s and grew up in the 1950s when Ireland was destitute. All his hard life, he had to struggle for what little he had. However, he would happily go without so that his family was provided for. He is well-liked in the community and always has good humoured stories to share to brighten your day.

But he doesn't like the blacks. He mentions facts he sees on the news such as fewer than half of the Africans in Ireland actually work. I suppose he's bitter that he had to work so hard his whole life for what little he has while more than half Africans step off the plane and enjoy a life of leisure living off the Irish taxpayer.

How can I change his worldview or is it too late?

There’s no smoke without fire, have you considered you could be wrong ?
Irish people are called potato eating Guinness drinking scrappers, see what I’m saying?

21-05-2020 08:36PM

If it's fear of difference it's one thing, if its irrational hatred based on stereotypes that is completely different.

Has he ever meant a black person?

There is a great bit in upstart crow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstart_Crow

Shakespeare is talking to his wife about his great Jew play and his wife says I have never met a Jew and Shakespeare says neither have I.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 08:39PM

Pops_20 wrote: »

Are you suggesting our national identity and history are under threat?

I find the people who worry most about our national identity and culture also tend to be clueless about the culture apart from the famine and the fight for independence. Not a clue about the folklore, the traditions and the things that actually make us unique.

The best way to preserve those things is to learn about Irish culture and history and revive them so they are passed on and thrive.

If we teach the new Irish about these things and they'll live on. If we rely on the racists to protect our culture, we're finished.

screamer · 21-05-2020 08:42PM

A lot of Irish people are pc in public and racist in private. Someone’s views don’t particularly bother me, as I have my own. The racism towards travellers in Ireland actually disgusts me most, not even racism pure unadulterated hate towards them.

StackSteevens · 21-05-2020 08:51PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

First off, it was a joke as black people in Ireland probay aren't African American.

Secondly, you call it pandering wherepst people would call it normal decency. If a English person insisted on calling Irish people "paddy" instead of Irish, it's a fairly strong indication that they're a dickhead.

I'm happy to I defer to your unrivalled expertise on international stereotyping.

However I would respectfuly suggest that your joke writing ability requires quite a bit of tweaking.

21-05-2020 09:00PM

screamer wrote: »

A lot of Irish people are pc in public and racist in private. Someone’s views don’t particularly bother me, as I have my own. The racism towards travellers in Ireland actually disgusts me most, not even racism pure unadulterated hate towards them.

How do you know what people think in private?

cfuserkildare · 21-05-2020 09:16PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I find the people who worry most about our national identity and culture also tend to be clueless about the culture apart from the famine and the fight for independence. Not a clue about the folklore, the traditions and the things that actually make us unique.

The best way to preserve those things is to learn about Irish culture and history and revive them so they are passed on and thrive.

If we teach the new Irish about these things and they'll live on. If we rely on the racists to protect our culture, we're finished.

Kinda but not quite.
Ireland is a good example of how multiculturalism us a disaster for native culture.

As an example,. English is the most spoken language in Ireland,
What is the second most used language in Ireland?
Polish!!
Irish/Gaelic us third on the list!!

( Not being anti Polish, just giving an example )

kowloon · 21-05-2020 09:16PM

cfuserkildare wrote: »

How racist is it to want to preserve your national identity and history?

Our history isn't in any way affected.
As for our current culture, I have two issues with many of the people saying it needs to be preserved: Firstly, culture isn't a static thing, it changes, that's how culture works. The people entrenched in keeping things the same have something in common with the people who harp on about cultural appropriation. Hopefully, the good ideas and practices spread and the bad ones die out.
The second issue is this idea that there's some sort of monolithic culture that you need to fit in to. People vary wildly, and while we generally have more in common with groups we're more closely a part of, from a group of friends right up to an entire nation, the variance of people is so wide I doubt you could ever pin down anything beyond a few traits or vague concepts.

Feisar · 21-05-2020 09:23PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Having any kind of misconceptions and prejudices against people when you have no basis for it is idiotic really regardless of age. You can excuse some things from different times, but if there's any malice or venom involved, they're just bitter people. Sure, times were different back then, but I bet he would have hated people from the next county too.

Next county? Next parish you mean!

screamer · 21-05-2020 09:32PM

mariaalice wrote: »

How do you know what people think in private?

What I mean is, ask them a question in public they’ll give you the pc answer in front of other people where there’s a big audience and people fawn over each other to be more pc than the next. Ask that person the same question when it’s just 2 of you talking and you’ll see a different side.

Dakota Dan · 21-05-2020 09:35PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Using the term 'the Blacks' yourself isn't a great shout.

What exactly is the proper term nowadays?

Dakota Dan · 21-05-2020 09:44PM

I know a young man in his twenties that isn’t Irish who doesn’t like black people, Chinese people or Homosexuals and who uses other terms to describe them but couldn’t be put up here.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 09:46PM

StackSteevens wrote: »

I'm happy to I defer to your unrivalled expertise on international stereotyping.

However I would respectfuly suggest that your joke writing ability requires quite a bit of tweaking.

LOL. It wasn't my joke. You're not getting what's happening is funny though.

cgcsb · 21-05-2020 09:47PM

Almost everyone in the world is racist some extent, except blind people I suppose.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 09:50PM

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Kinda but not quite.
Ireland is a good example of how multiculturalism us a disaster for native culture.

As an example,. English is the most spoken language in Ireland,
What is the second most used language in Ireland?
Polish!!
Irish/Gaelic us third on the list!!

( Not being anti Polish, just giving an example )

I don't take it as anti-Polish. I get what you're saying. So what's the solution? Irish people learning Irish or Irish people keeping Polish people out?

What's the solution to Irish folklore dieing out? Keeping foreigners out or Irish people learning the stories and teachings the traditions to others (including the new Irish)?

Cobalt17 · 21-05-2020 09:50PM

I hear you’re a racist now grandad!

jaxxx · 21-05-2020 09:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not too late to change his (your) worldview.

One suggestion right off the bat, try adopting the term "black people" instead of "the blacks".

Just a thought.

Or better yet, just "people".

Black, white, you can be f*cking purple for all the f*ck it matters, people are people. These words are just labels. You are what you are, and that is a homo f*cking sapien, no different to anyone else.

For as long as there's been diversity among our species, there's not a been human being that ever lived that never had racist thoughts at least once in their lives in their lives. The deal whether these thoughts are just comical in nature or whether they're from some inate hatred or belief of superiorism; in which case you need f*cking help!

Is superiorism a word? Well it is for this post anyway!

Odhinn · 21-05-2020 09:55PM

coinop wrote: »

My grandfather was born during the Emergency years in the 1940s and grew up in the 1950s when Ireland was destitute. All his hard life, he had to struggle for what little he had. However, he would happily go without so that his family was provided for. He is well-liked in the community and always has good humoured stories to share to brighten your day.

But he doesn't like the blacks. He mentions facts he sees on the news such as fewer than half of the Africans in Ireland actually work. I suppose he's bitter that he had to work so hard his whole life for what little he has while more than half Africans step off the plane and enjoy a life of leisure living off the Irish taxpayer.

How can I change his worldview or is it too late?

I don't believe a word of it. You're just using your imaginary "grandad" as a trojan horse for your own bigoted views.

jaxxx · 21-05-2020 09:58PM

Odhinn wrote: »

I don't believe a word of it. You're just using your imaginary "grandad" as a trojan horse for your own bigoted views.

So OP, Coinop, what are your [grandfather's] views on homosexuality then?

El_Duderino 09 · 21-05-2020 10:00PM

kowloon wrote: »

Our history isn't in any way affected.
As for our current culture, I have two issues with many of the people saying it needs to be preserved: Firstly, culture isn't a static thing, it changes, that's how culture works. The people entrenched in keeping things the same have something in common with the people who harp on about cultural appropriation. Hopefully, the good ideas and practices spread and the bad ones die out.
The second issue is this idea that there's some sort of monolithic culture that you need to fit in to. People vary wildly, and while we generally have more in common with groups we're more closely a part of, from a group of friends right up to an entire nation, the variance of people is so wide I doubt you could ever pin down anything beyond a few traits or vague concepts.

The richness is in the learning, knowing and sharing the old traditions. It doesn't mean going backwards or wanting to go back to the old days. For me it's about keeping the past alive through learning about it but living our lives in the present and looking to the future.

The new Irish are absolutely no issue for me. My culture isn't so brittle that it can be harmed by existence of people with other cultures.

Grandpa is a kind, generous man but he's racist. Is he a bad person?

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