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Grandpa is a kind, generous man but he's racist. Is he a bad person?

  • 21-05-2020 04:53PM
    #1
    coinop
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭


    My grandfather was born during the Emergency years in the 1940s and grew up in the 1950s when Ireland was destitute. All his hard life, he had to struggle for what little he had. However, he would happily go without so that his family was provided for. He is well-liked in the community and always has good humoured stories to share to brighten your day.

    But he doesn't like the blacks. He mentions facts he sees on the news such as fewer than half of the Africans in Ireland actually work. I suppose he's bitter that he had to work so hard his whole life for what little he has while more than half Africans step off the plane and enjoy a life of leisure living off the Irish taxpayer.

    How can I change his worldview or is it too late?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    1o059k7ewrqj3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭1o059k7ewrqj3n


    Be honest, this is your world view.


  • #3
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Steyr 556 wrote: »
    Be honest, this is your world view.

    That is exactly my impression too!


  • #4
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Can't he be all those things at once? A kind, generous racist.

    Racist don't have tails and horns *only Jews have them

    *ironic racist joke


  • #5
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,107 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Using the term 'the Blacks' yourself isn't a great shout.


  • #6
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    A very quick glance at the OP's previous posts suggests he and his beloved grandpappy have a lot in common...


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  • #7
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    I work with a high % of blacks. Quite a number of Irish/poles/Romanians etc who are employed there too are quiet racist about blacks.

    I can understand some of the older generation might be racist. It doesn't make them bad, it's just them being them.


  • #8
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113340009&postcount=77
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113434658&postcount=36
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112941920&postcount=11


  • #9
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,032 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Things can only be judged against their own time, what were the world views during his formative years?

    Or do we expect people to perpetually evolve during their lives?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #10
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,032 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Using the term 'the Blacks' yourself isn't a great shout.

    Yea I thought that myself, I believe there is a discussion to be had around whether or not we expect everyone to progress with the current societal view.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #11
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,352 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Feisar wrote: »
    Things can only be judged against their own time, what were the world views during his formative years?

    Or do we expect people to perpetually evolve during their lives?

    It depends on whether the social media mob want to ruin a person or not.

    I think grandpa will be ok.

    But if you're someone like Jim Davidson and say something you grew up with, you'll be destroyed.


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  • #12
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    coinop wrote: »
    My grandfather was born during the Emergency years in the 1940s and grew up in the 1950s when Ireland was destitute. All his hard life, he had to struggle for what little he had. However, he would happily go without so that his family was provided for. He is well-liked in the community and always has good humoured stories to share to brighten your day.

    But he doesn't like the blacks. He mentions facts he sees on the news such as fewer than half of the Africans in Ireland actually work. I suppose he's bitter that he had to work so hard his whole life for what little he has while more than half Africans step off the plane and enjoy a life of leisure living off the Irish taxpayer.

    How can I change his worldview or is it too late?

    I think you'll find he doesn't like anyone who doesn't work and who freeloads no matter their skin colour


  • #13
    coinop
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭coinop


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    I can understand some of the older generation might be racist. It doesn't make them bad, it's just them being them.

    I think it's simply a generational thing. My granpa's generation wouldn't be too fond of homosexuals either as it was considered a crime punishable by law for most of his life. Today's woke millennials will probably be criticised by their own grandkids for their outdated views when the're older.
    beveragelady wrote: »
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113340009&postcount=77
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113434658&postcount=36
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112941920&postcount=11

    If you believe a post is racist, report it. However, you diminish the meaning of the word when you claim everything is racist. Serving an African Ribena instead if wine by accident is not racist "beveragelady".


  • #14
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Feisar wrote: »
    Things can only be judged against their own time, what were the world views during his formative years?

    Or do we expect people to perpetually evolve during their lives?

    Yes. Obviously. Failure to evolve means you get left behind and become irrelevant.

    Seriously apart from anything, a person never changing their views means they're probably a moron


  • #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    coinop wrote: »
    How can I change his (my) worldview or is it too late?

    It's not too late to change his (your) worldview.

    One suggestion right off the bat, try adopting the term "black people" instead of "the blacks".

    Just a thought.


  • #16
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,626 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    Is he a Racist or Xenophobe?


  • #17
    Thoie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭Thoie


    I know a number of people in that age group, some with similar background stories, and only one of them is racist, and we're training her out of that.

    She was always the one with the urban myths about black women leaving buggies at bus stops "because the government will buy me a new one" and all that kind of ****e. She's not a relation, but whenever she brings up that kind of crap we question her about where she heard it, why is she so ready to believe it, does she really think it's true, why is she repeating it if it's not, etc.

    In relation to that article below, you could have a discussion about why the unemployment rates in that group are so high. His immediate thoughts may be "laziness", but dig into it further with him - why does he think that? What other reasons might there be? Could the high rate be due to employers being racist? (Read all of the ESRI report, but particularly page 25+) Is the 16% figure based on all people eligible to work, or based on everyone, including those who may not be eligible to apply for jobs? (Also answered in the report). How does he square the 3rd level graduate numbers with the employment figures.

    Instead of just accepting "ah sure, grandad's a bit racist", call him on it. Have a discussion (not an argument, a discussion). Let him know that it bothers you. He may just have never given his casual, or not so casual, racism a second thought.


  • #18
    afro man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 617 ✭✭✭afro man


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's not too late to change his (your) worldview.

    One suggestion right off the bat, try adopting the term "black people" instead of "the blacks".

    Just a thought.

    Berties horse

    Black people would also be classed as offensive by Some People
    you just cant win :confused:


  • #19
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    afro man wrote: »
    Berties horse

    Black people would also be classed as offensive by Some People
    you just cant win :confused:

    Would it? Any examples or ary yoh just making that up?

    I'm pretty sure "black" is the normal term at the moment.


  • #20
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    coinop wrote: »
    If you believe a post is racist, report it. However, you diminish the meaning of the word when you claim everything is racist. Serving an African Ribena instead if wine by accident is not racist "beveragelady".


    You have a preoccupation with matters of race. That's what your post history shows.

    And either you don't know how inverted commas work or you think my username is somehow significant in this conversation.


  • #21
    coinop
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 315 ✭✭coinop


    beveragelady wrote: »
    You have a preoccupation with matters of race. That's what your post history shows.

    And either you don't know how inverted commas work or you think my username is somehow significant in this conversation.

    https://gript.ie/anti-racist-campaigner-dr-ebun-joseph-queries-racist-motives-as-hotel-serves-wrong-drink/


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  • #22
    beveragelady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 855 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    coinop wrote: »
    https://gript.ie/anti-racist-campaigner-dr-ebun-joseph-queries-racist-motives-as-hotel-serves-wrong-drink/


    Right.
    Yes.
    Actually no. No, I don't understand why you think that justifies your preoccupation. Or even why you think that it's significant.


  • #23
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    coinop wrote: »
    https://gript.ie/anti-racist-campaigner-dr-ebun-joseph-queries-racist-motives-as-hotel-serves-wrong-drink/

    Gript is The Liberal for people with notions about themselves.


  • #24
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    'The apple never falls far form the tree'.


  • #25
    Agricola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    I don't think so. To me a racist is someone like Trump. Father in the Ku Klux Klan. Spent his time as a property developer and landlord actively discriminating against black tenants. Has spoken about how he respects black athletes for their physical prowess, in the same way you'd respect a prize bull, but wouldn't consider them as friends or equals. Couldn't give a fraction of a shít if the coronavirus wiped out the low income black population of the entire US............ that's racist. And this is a man who grew up and lived all his life in New York.

    Grandad is probably like a lot of older Irish fellas. Never knew any black people, gays, poor immigrants all his life and is now a bit suspicious/fearful of them.


  • #26
    afro man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 617 ✭✭✭afro man


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Would it? Any examples or ary yoh just making that up?

    I'm pretty sure "black" is the normal term at the moment.

    Think term is coloured. But may be wrong agai


  • #27
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,440 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Where is the racism, OP?


  • #28
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Start off by insisting he call them African-Americans instead of blacks.


  • #29
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Amazing how many older people would’ve been brought up as Christians and all that “love one and another”, looked down their nose at someone not going to mass yet were out and out racists.


  • #30
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    coinop wrote: »
    My grandfather was born during the Emergency years in the 1940s and grew up in the 1950s when Ireland was destitute. All his hard life, he had to struggle for what little he had. However, he would happily go without so that his family was provided for. He is well-liked in the community and always has good humoured stories to share to brighten your day.

    But he doesn't like the blacks. He mentions facts he sees on the news such as fewer than half of the Africans in Ireland actually work. I suppose he's bitter that he had to work so hard his whole life for what little he has while more than half Africans step off the plane and enjoy a life of leisure living off the Irish taxpayer.

    How can I change his worldview or is it too late?

    It’s racist to state facts now??


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  • #31
    Motivator
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭Motivator


    coinop wrote: »
    My grandfather was born during the Emergency years in the 1940s and grew up in the 1950s when Ireland was destitute. All his hard life, he had to struggle for what little he had. However, he would happily go without so that his family was provided for. He is well-liked in the community and always has good humoured stories to share to brighten your day.

    But he doesn't like the blacks. He mentions facts he sees on the news such as fewer than half of the Africans in Ireland actually work. I suppose he's bitter that he had to work so hard his whole life for what little he has while more than half Africans step off the plane and enjoy a life of leisure living off the Irish taxpayer.

    How can I change his worldview or is it too late?

    Unicorns were more common than black people in Ireland up until probably the mid-late 1970s. People born pre-1950 in Ireland grew up in a completely white Ireland with very little immigrants in the country. Black people, Polish people, Romanians just didn’t exist in Ireland back in those days so when they did appear in Ireland they were quite alien to people of a certain vintage.

    Look at the films around from 1930s, 1940s and 1950s nearly any black person in a film back in those days played either a slave or a housekeeper. The world was probably quite racist back then it wasn’t just in Ireland. Look at the USA back then, it was a mess. Most elderly people in Ireland (70+) would probably be classed as racists nowadays but they aren’t racist, they’re a product of their environment and their formative years would have been spent having a negative view of black people due to the popular culture back then.


This discussion has been closed.
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