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Solar kit for boat

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2

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    #32
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    Would this do the job


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    #33
    quentingargan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    If you want some small panels, Victron does a lot of boat equipment - also charge controllers. There are 100w panels out there, but you need two of them to get up to over 24v. If watts per € isn't the issue and you want small panels for aesthetic reasons look here. You could put two 20w panels in series to get your 24v.


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    daveville30 wrote: »
    Would this do the job


    Looks like a 12v panel, dunno it's a picture not a datasheet and the charge controller is junk.


    Here's a much better one



    quentingargan wrote: »
    If you want some small panels, Victron does a lot of boat equipment - also charge controllers.


    With all due respect Q that doesn't mean they are any good.
    Their chargers are lemons. They don't believe in remote temperature compensation for them either. They're built from second rate semi's and components and their failure rate is high by standards.


    All they have is pricepoint and marketing. They make better pdfs than hardware and they're spending all the R&D money on advertising and giving away janky products to youtube content makers. :rolleyes:


    MorningStar are the best. So bulletproof I only buy used ones and I've never had a problem with them.


    Victron won't do this in a month of Sundays.


    aWjhV3d.jpg

    They're costing users battery life longevity for an insubstantial saving.


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    #35
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    Would a 12v panel not be alright if I hooked it up to one battery it should charge the other one?


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not even if they were parallel


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    #37
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    Ah no.would two 12 volt panels give me 24.its not a weekend boat so it be getting plenty of use


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    2 x "12 volt" panels will give you about 36V...a lot of wasted power on PWM. Some advise going MPPT to "fix this". I advise using 60 cell panels and PWM, far less expensive and more efficient.
    If you intend to use it a lot don't get a small array.

    Over 100W total will start being useful for power on demand.

    If it's a liveaboard 100W for the fridge and 150W for the everything else I would consider minimum.


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    #39
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    It would be helpful to know what boat we are talking about. I already asked this save us going round in circles.....?


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    #40
    quentingargan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    They don't believe in remote temperature compensation for them either.

    Wide range of temperature sensors here. They aren't included with charge controllers because many kits have other GX controllers or other components where this is managed, or increasingly use Li-ion which has its own control. But for lead acid, there is a choice of wired or bluetooth temperature sensing.


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    #41
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    freddyuk wrote: »
    It would be helpful to know what boat we are talking about. I already asked this save us going round in circles.....?

    Theres a picture on the thread


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    freddyuk wrote: »
    It would be helpful to know what boat we are talking about. I already asked this save us going round in circles.....?


    Clicky



    quentingargan wrote: »
    Wide range of temperature sensors here. They aren't included with charge controllers because many kits have other GX controllers or other components where this is managed, or increasingly use Li-ion which has its own control. But for lead acid, there is a choice of wired or bluetooth temperature sensing.


    You're kindof reinforcing my point Q. Their small solar charge controllers do not have remote temp sensing. They measure their own heat sinks not the battery.


    I can fabricate MS temp sensors with €0.50 thermistors.


    I have never seen a Victron charge a battery further than 1.265 specific gravity. They rework them to add bluetooth but they still can't charge a battery right. :rolleyes:


    Li-ion is not competitive. Explaination here.

    They simply do not use their own products.
    For instance the BMV:

    Too small to read without faddling.
    17 button presses to turn the backlight on and off.
    It's a 52mm gauge...automotive standard...Do you not think a blue light in a dashboard is very distracting...headlamp paranioa.
    It doesn't read greater than 100%...inaccurate, yet it keeps charging.
    The Shunt has two positive terminals..terrible idea.
    It is wired on UTP cable...is this durable and vibration resilient?

    Chargers with a claimed 98% efficiency run between 60% and decimal efficiency.

    Junk. Paying for a name and not much else.
    The inverters are not bad. The Combis I won't go near.


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    #43
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    2 x "12 volt" panels will give you about 36V...a lot of wasted power on PWM. Some advise going MPPT to "fix this". I advise using 60 cell panels and PWM, far less expensive and more efficient.
    If you intend to use it a lot don't get a small array.

    Over 100W total will start being useful for power on demand.

    If it's a liveaboard 100W for the fridge and 150W for the everything else I would consider minimum.

    Sorry what's pwm and mppt?


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    #44
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    daveville30 wrote: »
    Theres a picture on the thread


    Got it! Sorry.
    Here is mine. 30w 0n radar arch. Victron controller at 5amps. Does the job fine. You can get 24v panels but will be expensive. 2 x 30w would be cheaper.[IMG][/img]


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    #45
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    No picture there.is yours charging 24v?


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    daveville30 wrote: »
    Sorry what's pwm and mppt?

    Pulse width modulation is a simple topography that cannot use any voltage above the battery holding voltage. Cheap and cheerful, reliable.

    Maximum power point tracking is a more complex and expensive technology that compensates for panel to battery mismatch, installer laziness and makes domestic panels accessable to 12v installations.
    In general it's 15% better than PWM when using 18V panels on 12v batteries or 36v panels on 24v batteries.
    It does enable the use of larger arrays through higher usable input voltages and current limiting.


    PWM is better than MPPT when using 30V panels on 24v batteries.


    PWM is adequate for your low demand needs, it's far more affordable.


    freddyuk wrote: »
    Victron controller at 5amps. Does the job fine.


    Have you ever measured your specific gravity Freddy or how have you ascertained this?


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    #47
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    I can only check the voltage as its a sealed battery for a boat!!


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    #48
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    daveville30 wrote: »
    No picture there.is yours charging 24v?


    Image won't attach. This is 12v. As the instruments are all 12v that is fine.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    freddyuk wrote: »
    I can only check the voltage as its a sealed battery for a boat!!

    So not evidence that the charger works as it should then.

    Try it on a flooded or open yer glued caps and get back to us please...or maybe hold back on unfounded claims?


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    #50
    quentingargan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭quentingargan


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    So not evidence that the charger works as it should then.

    Try it on a flooded or open yer glued caps and get back to us please...or maybe hold back on unfounded claims?
    To be fair, a controller can only read voltage, current and temperature, and do what it is told in its settings... hold the voltage at equalisation, bulk, or float for x minutes. It doesn't measure battery acidity which is really a measure of what the battery does under those conditions.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Disagree MorningStar work perfectly. And do 100% rated. My Victron 15A lemon charger only does 12.5A (after first 5 minutes..temp derating)

    As I've mentioned Victron don't measure temperature...they just claim to.
    To be fair to be fair Victron are costing years of battery service through negligent algorithm. They rely on people to believe the marketing and not test the outcome. It works very well for them.
    The small inverter manuals don't even tell you how to properly earth them because that would look too complicated to protect users from electrocution....just don't bother is the message.

    It's simple to charge a battery. Absorb until return amps = 0.


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And then they claim Lead is weak..buy expensive li-ion instead. Spoofers!


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I ran some brief inverter tests today.

    Here we have a 350VA Blue box.
    With a soldered ATO fuse on the motherboard.
    Victron did I not pay you enough for a fuse socket to make this serviceable item serviceable?
    Victron if you're gonna cheap out like a pro omit the fuse and let the installer fit a serviceable one externally!

    513838.jpg



    Here's a fanless externally fused MorningStar 300VA that can be programmed and metered.

    513839.jpg

    Hey MorningStar why dont you advertise more and give away products?



    I haven't load tested the Victron, the Suresine will run a 700w angle grinder if you don't lean on it.


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    #54
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,822 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Didn't know about their SureSine inverters. If you come across a good deal steal on one on eBay that you're not buying, will you send us a PM? :)

    And / or a ProStar for that matter. This one seems a good deal and a monitor (M) version too, but the shipping and import charges adding all up to near EUR90 are putting me off

    Linky


    Schlicktron, haha :D


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Used 50hz 230V 'Murican made solid state inverters are rarer than hen's teeth Unkel I bought the only one that's appeared in 4 years.


    Offer £45 on this
    ..I bought the sister for £55.


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    #56
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,822 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    Offer £45 on this

    He's looking for GBP145

    He's hardly going to accept GBP45 though is he? :D

    Edit - I wasn't paying attention. I saw yours is from the same seller. Let's see if I'll get this one at GBP55 too then, eh? :D


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    #57
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,822 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    No response from seller to my offer. And now the item has been withdrawn. I guess someone else made a higher offer so.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They go for £60 to £90 once every 4 months. November is the best time to bag them.
    I'll PM any others I see. I'm at full completment right now. 1 Spare, 3 in service...
    Err anna Tristar MPPT, and two TriStar PWMs, and an EcoPulse PWM, and a ProStar MPPT, and a Prostar 12m.
    All used bargains, all working & knocking the socks off all the wannabes.

    My batteries live forever. :pac:


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    #59
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    Hows things got a 60w panel in the end well two 30w if I put them in series should be enough to charge two 12v batterys?here's pics I've 3 charge controllers which one would be best


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    #60
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,822 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Thanks for getting back to us, cheap & easy solution :) Out of interest, where did you get the parts (panels, controller, batteries) and what did you pay for them?


    Should be fine to keep your batteries topped up when you are away, but won't do much towards actively using the batteries when you're on the boat for stuff more heavy duty than the likes of lights.


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    #61
    daveville30
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭daveville30


    70 sterling for the kit of e bay charge controllers where bought of e bay aswell.which charge controller would be best?


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