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Time to tax wealth - Covid cost Solution

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,473 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    It’s the likes of Larry Goodman worth 4 or 5 Billion that won’t pay his taxes in this country that we need a wealth tax for ! .... and then he has the neck to pay the vast majority of his staff minimum wage so they have nothing not to mind been able to pay tax themselves .

    We will be like Russia with oligarch rich like Larry , Denis O brien , JP and a few hundred others paying no tax in this country and a narrow middle class and a large working poor / welfare class .

    I'm going to be generous and assume that you are naive rather than the alternative, but how much do you think you would get out of these people in total, 1 billion?

    (Btw I heard that Larry is driving a 2020 car, what a ba$tard!)


  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    It’s the likes of Larry Goodman worth 4 or 5 Billion that won’t pay his taxes in this country that we need a wealth tax for ! .... and then he has the neck to pay the vast majority of his staff minimum wage so they have nothing not to mind been able to pay tax themselves .

    We will be like Russia with oligarch rich like Larry , Denis O brien , JP and a few hundred others paying no tax in this country and a narrow middle class and a large working poor / welfare class .

    While they may pay a small percentage of their earnings into the taxmans sack, the amount paid by their thousands of employees is fairly significant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    While they may pay a small percentage of their earnings into the taxmans sack, the amount paid by their thousands of employees is fairly significant.

    So? You think if someone is only a multimillionaire instead of a billionaire due to taxes, they wouldn't bother with their businesses any more? Most of today's American billionaires (Buffett, Gates etc) founded and grew their companies at a time when personal taxes were a lot higher than they are now.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Let's tax the rich back to the stone age. Then the left will be happy.
    Perhaps we should be paying billionaires for setting up and running companies that provide an income for others.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    A tax on new cars would be an easy one, a extra 1000 tax on any new car 202 and 21 cars next year.

    Anyone buying a new car in the times ahead is really making a statement of "look how well off i am " to the rest of the population .

    Jealous much?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Let's tax the rich back to the stone age. Then the left will be happy.
    Perhaps we should be paying billionaires for setting up and running companies that provide an income for others.

    Income for others ?? ... most of Larry Goldman’s staff in meat factories haven’t two pennies to rub together , all in minimum wage brought in from the poorest part of Latvia or Lithuania .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Income for others ?? ... most of Larry Goldman’s staff in meat factories haven’t two pennies to rub together , all in minimum wage brought in from the poorest part of Latvia or Lithuania .
    Why are they here?


  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Income for others ?? ... most of Larry Goldman’s staff in meat factories haven’t two pennies to rub together , all in minimum wage brought in from the poorest part of Latvia or Lithuania .

    If they weren’t satisfied, they wouldn’t be here. Nothing wrong with minimum wage jobs. Plenty of us have them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,752 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Income for others ?? ... most of Larry Goldman’s staff in meat factories haven’t two pennies to rub together , all in minimum wage brought in from the poorest part of Latvia or Lithuania .


    Really?



    This is starting to sound like the Keeling discussion when it was clear people just pulled information out of their bottom because of ignorance of what the wages are for these roles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Income for others ?? ... most of Larry Goldman’s staff in meat factories haven’t two pennies to rub together , all in minimum wage brought in from the poorest part of Latvia or Lithuania .

    Sooo whats they definitions for your wealth tax? I see a lot of rabble rousing but not an awful lot of numbers!

    -What will be the value/rate applied?
    -What level of "wealth" does someone have to have to qualify?
    -How will familial connections factor?
    -What is the residency status for those who need to pay?
    -Will there be a sliding scale of payment due for people on the threshold of the lower end of the rate? Will there be tiers of "wealth" rates?
    -At what time will the "wealth" be calculated?
    -Whose valuations of "wealth" will be used to charge people?
    -Who will collect this?
    -What will be the consequences for non-payment?

    Simple questions to answer.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    I may not have the figures but a blind man can see the rich are getting richer and those in modest employment are been beat down to the minimum wage .
    This has knock on effects to the wider community as most of those workers have virtually no disposable income , can’t afford to go into shops only Lidl or Tesco and that’s for special offers . In the meat factory beside me there once was 300 local people working on decent enough money and it fed many houses and provided a lot of spin off business to shops / pubs / restaurants etc now there’s 50 or 60 Latvians working there on minimum wage with their toes coming out through their shoes whilst the plant makes more money than ever which is diverted through Larry Goldman’s companies accounts paying a minute amount of tax in Luxembourg. Is this really the type of country we want .


  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    I may not have the figures but a blind man can see the rich are getting richer and those in modest employment are been beat down to the minimum wage .
    This has knock on effects to the wider community as most of those workers have virtually no disposable income , can’t afford to go into shops only Lidl or Tesco and that’s for special offers . In the meat factory beside me there once was 300 local people working on decent enough money and it fed many houses and provided a lot of spin off business to shops / pubs / restaurants etc now there’s 50 or 60 Latvians working there on minimum wage with their toes coming out through their shoes whilst the plant makes more money than ever which is diverted through Larry Goldman’s companies accounts paying a minute amount of tax in Luxembourg. Is this really the type of country we want .

    Minimum wage jobs are not as bad as you are making out. The scenario you’ve outlined above just doesn’t exist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Minimum wage jobs are not as bad as you are making out. The scenario you’ve outlined above just doesn’t exist.

    Im afraid it does and exists in probably 30/40 meat factories all over Ireland. We can all turn a blind eye not to upset Larry or other super wealthy individuals but that doesnt suit some of us. The greed of the rich is never ending.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,247 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Im afraid it does and exists in probably 30/40 meat factories all over Ireland. We can all turn a blind eye not to upset Larry or other super wealthy individuals but that doesnt suit some of us. The greed of the rich is never ending.

    whats your obsession with Larry. Ive done contracting work for two meat processing companies, both have on site canteens feeding workers, they're both in rural enough towns but provide employment for most of the town, the carparks are huge because everybody owns a car and drives there, they all pay cheap rent in the surrounding area.

    I would go as far as to say that a meat processing worker in cavan etc.. has a better standard of living than somebody packing shelves in a Dublin City centre Tesco. A lot of Latvians and Lithuanians like these factories because they have set 8 hour shifts, theres cheap rent, the local pub and off licences are marginally cheaper than Dublin and they can afford to drive bmw's and Mercedes that they could have only dreamed of owning before coming to Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
    Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

    Where on Earth you flicking those figures from? 40 million on wealth (much of it in shares n property ) only being taxed on their income of 100k ? Only paying 30k tax ?

    Of course, your mind numbing ignorance ignores that their companies pay corporation tax (Not all companies pays the lower 12.5% rate, but higher ) , they personally paY CAT /Inheritance tax , CGT ,etc and as EMPLOYERS ,ie WEALTH CREATORS , they pay employeRS PRSI For every member of staff, including the slackers

    Everytime they enter the property market ,they foot several payments such as VAT and Stamp Duty not to mention keep contractors in business

    I thought Ireland and Europe rounded up all the commies n socialists ? Do we have to line them up against the wall again and shoot them ?

    Here’s a sad reality, their contribution to society is more than 10 of you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    lawred2 wrote: »
    There was a time I'd have disagreed with a wealth tax but wealth inequality is so out of control at this stage that something has to be done to rebalance the scales.

    What punish the successful, the well bred and the hard working , by bringing them down to the level of the peasant and riff raff and welfare class ?


    How vile


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,473 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    In this like many other countries there is a huge difference between taxing income and taxing wealth .
    Is it fair that someone with 40 Million in wealth only pays tax on their income of 100k pays 30k in tax whilst someone with no assets earning 60k pays 15K tax ?

    Let me rephrase your question.
    Is it fair that 1 person pays twice as much tax as another person yet can avail of best equal though often fewer social benefits?

    Shouldnt the guy paying 30K get more out of it than the guy paying 15K?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 859 ✭✭✭Randy Archer


    When you think about it a tax on wealth would actually be the second time the wealth has been taxed. The first time you were taxed on whatever activity it was which allowed you to purchase the asset (such as income tax on salary, which is used to buy a property.) So if you used your after tax income to purchase something, why should you be taxed again on the asset you own?

    The only tax on wealth should be inheritance tax, because you clearly didn't earn it if you're born into it. Even that is questionable as your parents paid income tax as described above, but at least it didn't apply to you personally.

    That still more double taxing , the first during the life time of the original owner

    Take a family business. Man fought several boom n busts to keep the business alive. His son, the hero apparent has spent some of his adult life working for peanuts with the father to keep the business going on the promise that the keys to the kingdom would be his when father kicks the bucket . The continuation of the family run business keeps people in jobs ! So the son didn’t yearn it , eh ?

    Stop waffling

    As for family homes, how do you know of the recipient earned it or not?some family members give up their careers to care for the occupier who is old or ill ...

    The vast majority of people who pay inheritance tax on gift /inheritance to members of the family that DON’T qualify for hefty allowances (eg son -father , business and agricultural relief ) are NOT wealthy ! It applies to everyone in the country

    “You clearly didn’t earn it , if you were born into it “

    Complete rubbish ! You clearly know sweet fa about running a business within a family


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,774 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    McWilliams was talking about re financing the country borrowings at the near zero interest. This makes sense as would save money. Are there any downsides I wonder?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,467 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    saabsaab wrote: »
    McWilliams was talking about re financing the country borrowings at the near zero interest. This makes sense as would save money. Are there any downsides I wonder?


    We are doing this.

    We borrowed 1.5 bn this morning.

    "The National Treasury Management Agency said it has sold €1.5 billion of nine and 30 year bonds at an auction today with yields of 0.043% and 0.792%."


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    whats your obsession with Larry. Ive done contracting work for two meat processing companies, both have on site canteens feeding workers, they're both in rural enough towns but provide employment for most of the town, the carparks are huge because everybody owns a car and drives there, they all pay cheap rent in the surrounding area.

    I would go as far as to say that a meat processing worker in cavan etc.. has a better standard of living than somebody packing shelves in a Dublin City centre Tesco. A lot of Latvians and Lithuanians like these factories because they have set 8 hour shifts, theres cheap rent, the local pub and off licences are marginally cheaper than Dublin and they can afford to drive bmw's and Mercedes that they could have only dreamed of owning before coming to Ireland.

    the only one larry goodman rips off are farmers though he does it has to be said rip them off royally , beef farmers dont earn close to minimum wage


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    the only one larry goodman rips off are farmers though he does it has to be said rip them off royally , beef farmers dont earn close to minimum wage

    Larry doesn’t want to pay anyone - staff /farmers / tax in this country .
    We have become a country that wants to employ the poorest people from Bulgaria - Latvia - Lithuania to ensure bigger and bigger profits for their companies rather than pay Irish staff a living wage .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Larry doesn’t want to pay anyone - staff /farmers / tax in this country .
    We have become a country that wants to employ the poorest people from Bulgaria - Latvia - Lithuania to ensure bigger and bigger profits for their companies rather than pay Irish staff a living wage .

    Wait...so does the Irish state own and operate Larrys factories now?

    Sounds more like the easier solution is to ramp up the minimum wage so! And if the workers employed are from nations that are legally allowed to work here, whats the "BAD" here? And where do these Latvians/Lithuanins spend their small pittance of cash? Are they pohtosynthetic and dont need food, and do they live in hollows under tree roots so get away without paying rent? Because if you then claim they send money back to their home countries and out of the Irish economy, then clearly they arent struggling with "their toes poking out their socks"!

    Or should we impose restrictions on foreign workers entering the nation, a "seal off the border" type situation? And demand other nations do the same; send all the Latvians home and drag all the Irish back from Australia/USA/Europe, because they are stealing those nations money! Because largely they bring workers into Ireland for jobs us Irish wont do, same as for a lot of wealthier countries.


    But thats a completely different topic, and you never answered my earlier question: what rate would your "wealth" tax be?

    Lets say Larry Goodman has €4.5 billion (since you said around 4 or 5 billion before so we will average that)....how much should he pay as a "wealth" tax every year?

    €000,000,000,000

    Just change any 0 there for anything between 1 and 9, and respond....its simple.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,247 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Geuze wrote: »
    We are doing this.

    We borrowed 1.5 bn this morning.

    "The National Treasury Management Agency said it has sold €1.5 billion of nine and 30 year bonds at an auction today with yields of 0.043% and 0.792%."

    eventually we'll have to pay but its the classic political move of kick the can till your political career is done and you're on your cushy ministerial pension.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,196 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    1.5bn in 30 years will be a lot less than 1.5bn now...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭gary550


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Larry doesn’t want to pay anyone - staff /farmers / tax in this country .
    We have become a country that wants to employ the poorest people from Bulgaria - Latvia - Lithuania to ensure bigger and bigger profits for their companies rather than pay Irish staff a living wage .

    Ireland is a predominantly service economy, over 60% of our GDP is made up of service, industry is second. Most service economy's rely on some outside labour to function. It happened in the UK, it's happening here (albeit slower). The populace of eastern European workers has much less to do with depriving Irish of a "Living" wage than you think.

    So just to keep a running tally of things Simon doesn't like; Larry Goodman, Denis O'Brien, the fella from down with road with a 201 car & Larry Goodman's cohort of Eastern European labour


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭Feets


    Do we think its only Larry Goodmans plants affected? Serious lawsuits ahead for neglecting staff.


  • Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Feets wrote: »
    Do we think its only Larry Goodmans plants affected? Serious lawsuits ahead for neglecting staff.

    Who’s neglecting staff?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭Feets


    When a factory is not enforcing social distancing, I believe that is neglect and I speak with current experience of enforcing such measures. If the company does not make it possible for staff to work safely, that is neglectful.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,473 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Can we just rename the thread "I want some of Larry Goodman's money"?
    It will save people hours of their life reading through this nonsense.


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