Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.
Options
Comments
-
I know Hollywoodrath, and it fits in to what I said. It has relatively poor transport contrary to the claims of substantial transport connections, I can get from Hollywoodwrath to the city centre quicker on a bike than public transport. The 40D during rush hour can be a nightmare, and the 40E, while providing a good service, is let down by the traffic congestion once it gets to Finglas.
If you got the 8:05 40E or whatever time it's around then, you can be pulling into Broombridge after 8:30 and hitting the city near 9. You still have to get to Blackrock then. During normal working hours and days, you can't get from Hollywoodwrath to Blackrock in 50 minutes.
Without that traffic, outside of your regular rush hour, it is a good service.
To be honest it's pretty Internet to have a row over whether or not you can do this - I live in HWR and make that journey both directions at rush hour. It works because there's a commuter train that runs from the Maynooth line on down Dun Laoghaire way, rather than having to change in town to a DART.And some of the schools, mostly the 1 secondary, at the moment can't cater for the wider existing areas of Tyrrelstown and Hollystown, without the addition of the new housing.
Can you imagine then what will happen when they eventually build on the Hollywoodrath side of the golf course adding more demand into the community? The first plan was already knocked back, and that was I imagine the developers chancing their arm to see how much they can get in, without a care or thought into the immediate environs.
Don't get me wrong, I like that area and there are facilities around it, but it can't continue that way without first putting in more facilities, most notably secondary education.
Indeed, that's why there is planning permission and a site to build another secondary school alongside the relatively new dual carriageway...
The development plan is pretty comprehensive to be honest. That and a railway timetable might be of assistance to you in this discussion!Agree with the above,
At best my commute is about 1hr 20 - 30 minutes each way daily between walking and trains to get to near work close to the Canal which is not a large distance by any measure.
Anyway Fingal council and the developers up here wont be satisfied until every inch of zoned land is built upon and rates and levies get collected, as the title of the thread reads D15 will continue to get more and more congested and that is a fact
To be honest the issue you identify is not with D15, it's with Dublin City Center. Lots of jobs, very little housing (and a refusal to build high density to match supply and demand). There are few enough major cities where commuting times from the suburbs in at rush hour aren't long or the trains (etc) packed.
As for D15 getting more and more built up... That is and has for a long time been the explicit development plan, since before your area of it was developed. Indeed where you live is a model example of the plan.Well its not. Usually its pointing out obvious flaws in the planning. But its usually drowned out by the NIMBYism heckling.
Then when its finished and creates problems as predicted. We get there was no way of knowing, or sure it would have happened anyway.
So we have a catch 22. Complain about the planning and be heckled out of it, and overruled anyway. So don't complain and that gives them the excuse well no one complained.
To the broader point being addressed here and by other posters, take a big step back - If not here, where, for Dublin? And you can say "Develop the regions" but that's really up to Google, Salesforce, LinkedIn, PWC and anyone else with a HQ in Dublin. The jobs are here, as they tend to be in the capitals of small countries. And if not built in D15, where that's not already being built? They're already expanding Leopardstown significantly, for example.
Major cities (for that's what Dublin is relative to Ireland) are always built up, built out, crowded and less fun to commute in than small villages. They can tend to be behind the curve on a lot of infrastructure, though to be honest the planned communities developed in recent times have been light years ahead of what we used to get.
D15 by design is going to be built up. Pull out any map, let alone any development plan, before you move to it and ponder its location relative to major arterial transport links, its flat geography, the location of major centers of employment outside the CC nevermind in it (airport, logistics hubs, warehouses, corporate parks) and lack of any strategic value in what else its land is used for (ala North County Dublin, which has free draining sandy soil that is some of the most productive agricultural land in the country for crops).
I think folks complaining about it are whistling in the wind and to be perfectly honest, they're whistling against things that were apparent before many of them moved to D15 in the first place.0 -
In terms of the location piece I would disagree that docklands station is in a good location and that’s evident given the numerous articles and current plans to relocate the station further south into Spencer place / dock whatever it’s called (plenty of discussions about this in the infrastructure thread for anyone interested in it if I recall), just because a train line is packed doesn’t constitute the destination is convenient, the wacky timetable and cramped 2nd grade small trains are testament to the **** service IE have provided, I am one of the so called suits as mentioned in one of the posts and unless you work on the quays which I’m sure some do the station is not well connected (I’ve a solid 25-30 minutes walk up towards the canal end of Leeson street which is of course my own choice and issue) on the post about docklands being faster to get to and you can then walk to Connolly this makes zero sense from a good transport / connectivity perspective . )
38,000 people are employed in the IFSC. It takes 4 minutes to walk from the Docklands station to Hubspot's building, for example. 10 minutes to get to KPMG beside the Harbourmaster pub. They're building a giant new office complex beside the Point. 11 minutes walk. Go across the river (and out of the area where the mere 38,000 are employed), Facebook is an 11 minute walk.
That's pretty connected to be honest.0 -
38,000 people are employed in the IFSC. It takes 4 minutes to walk from the Docklands station to Hubspot's building, for example. 10 minutes to get to KPMG beside the Harbourmaster pub. They're building a giant new office complex beside the Point. 11 minutes walk. Go across the river (and out of the area where the mere 38,000 are employed), Facebook is an 11 minute walk.
That's pretty connected to be honest.
Connected to a business area yes it is Dublin centre so that’s a no brainer and great for those who are lucky enough to work there , I’ve already advised I was speaking about those that work south of the Liffey or closer to SSG, the fact they are currently planning to move the station validates that, google docklands station and there are numerous articles about this in fact the only reason why it was built there was to connect to the dart underground which was shelved - this would have also seen Sligo and potentially Galway trains terminate here and you could interchange to other areas via the planned dart underground project that got shelved.
The station itself is only a temporary build with planning only ever granted for 15 years if I recall. Again all evidence not a great location with the absence of the other transport options that were meant to be implemented0 -
Connected to a business area yes it is Dublin centre so that’s a no brainer and great for those who are lucky enough to work there , I’ve already advised I was speaking about those that work south of the Liffey or closer to SSG, the fact they are currently planning to move the station validates that, google docklands station and there are numerous articles about this in fact the only reason why it was built there was to connect to the dart underground which was shelved - this would have also seen Sligo and potentially Galway trains terminate here and you could interchange to other areas via the planned dart underground project that got shelved.
The station itself is only a temporary build with planning only ever granted for 15 years if I recall. Again all evidence not a great location with the absence of the other transport options that were meant to be implemented
Tara Street and Pearse Station are there to serve the south city away from the docks area, that's not what Docklands station is intended for. By taking passengers away from trains going through Connolly it allows those trains to be used by people who need to go further than Connolly. I use Docklands every day and, apart from the packed trains, particularly in the morning, I think it works really well and is in a great location, as do many people I know who work in the area. As an added bonus over Connolly there's none of the waiting after Drumcondra for the track ahead to clear.
As regards the station moving, I can't see that happening anytime soon as the main reason for moving it was the DART underground inter-connector and new bus station. Whatever slim chance they would have had of being built under normal conditions, the government's expenditure on Covid-19 will definitely curtail capital expenditure for a good few years. If the planning permission is for a finite period I think we can expect some sort of legislation enacted to have it extended.0 -
Tara Street and Pearse Station are there to serve the south city away from the docks area, that's not what Docklands station is intended for. By taking passengers away from trains going through Connolly it allows those trains to be used by people who need to go further than Connolly. I use Docklands every day and, apart from the packed trains, particularly in the morning, I think it works really well and is in a great location, as do many people I know who work in the area. As an added bonus over Connolly there's none of the waiting after Drumcondra for the track ahead to clear.
As regards the station moving, I can't see that happening anytime soon as the main reason for moving it was the DART underground inter-connector and new bus station. Whatever slim chance they would have had of being built under normal conditions, the government's expenditure on Covid-19 will definitely curtail capital expenditure for a good few years. If the planning permission is for a finite period I think we can expect some sort of legislation enacted to have it extended.
Agree most likely not going to happen after the Covid bill gets posted in the letterbox !
I was also not stating the docklands station is there to serve the south side just stating it’s location was part of a much bigger interchange that never happened which would have made its original purpose a proper transport hub, back on the topic of D15 connectivity and congestion issues as you’ve rightly pointed out these services are already stretched to capacity as is. If you live in D15 further west of Clonsilla and work south of the Liffey you will continue to endure congestion and hours of daily commuting which will inevitably get worse as the population strain occurs from all these developer led developments.
Already mentioned by others but sense and reason aren’t going to stop them building denser and denser developments while continuing to not invest in adequate services for the existing D15 population0 -
Advertisement
-
To be honest it's pretty Internet to have a row over whether or not you can do this - I live in HWR and make that journey both directions at rush hour....
......
That and a railway timetable might be of assistance to you in this discussion!
I'm extremely familiar with the area and commuting to, from and around it, a long long time before the two lane road existed and when the farmers were still working the land where you live now
There's no substantive or reliable public transport service to make a train connection to the Maynooth line.
I'm not denigrating where you live, just being realistic.
You have the impression that everyone just blew in and haven't been living in the area as long or longer than you.0 -
Appreciate you’re a long timer also, but you’re incorrect on this. There’s a commuter train leaves Blackrock at 1730 and arrives in Broombridge at 1759. If the train is delayed you might get caught for half an hour, but if it’s on time - as it often is - you get to HWR in 50 minutes, hour at a push. There’s one direct commuter in the morning and two in the evening if you’re aiming around 0920 start / 1720 finish somewhere in blackrock.I'm extremely familiar with the area and commuting to, from and around it, a long long time before the two lane road existed and when the farmers were still working the land where you live now
There's no substantive or reliable public transport service to make a train connection to the Maynooth line.
I'm not denigrating where you live, just being realistic.
You have the impression that everyone just blew in and haven't been living in the area as long or longer than you.
Alternatively if you drive, take the commuter to the Navan road parkway and you’ll drive up to HWR in 10-12 minutes during rush hour.
I just think the assertion that the area isn’t well serviced at all isn’t correct, though one thing I do find arises in these discussions is that what is “well served” can be subjective (eg a bus every half hour to a major rail and Luas station counts as well serviced to me, but to others might be considered weak).
To the wider discussion, I just think some folks expectations versus reality of living in a big (relatively) city suburb are misaligned.
As to Docklands having originally been a part of the wider plans for the dublin rail network, even so it is a popular and well placed station within ten minutes walk of tens of thousands of jobs. Pre-Covid 2.28 million people were employed in the whole of Ireland. Going on the IFSC figures, 1.6% of the entire workforce of the entire country is working beside that station before you go across the river.
I just think dismissing it is an example of the poorly thought out assumptions and assertions that tend to get thrown around in planning discussions.0 -
...unless you work on the quays which I’m sure some do the station is not well connected (I’ve a solid 25-30 minutes walk up towards the canal end of Leeson street which is of course my own choice and issue) on the post about docklands being faster to get to and you can then walk to Connolly this makes zero sense from a good transport / connectivity perspective . Good connectivity means you can connect and interchange on the one form of transport not walk to a train station then exit walk another 10 minutes to another train stay ok and get on another train not to mention paying double the fare for doing this which also makes no sense....
If you think you will have almost door to door public transport with no changes, or all the same form of transport. You'll never get that.
That's a very old mindset in terms of transport. Its all about being multi-modal.
One typical journey for me is drive or cycle to station 5 mins. Train to docklands, 20~25mins (used to be 16) then cycle to Lesson street/Baggot street. 10~15mins. Pretty much all of that is on cycle lanes.
I will be at my location before the Connolly train has got to Pearse or Grand canal. If you bring your own fold up bike instead of using Dublin bikes, you'll save another 10 mins. I'm sure a eScooter would be even quicker.
As for buying two train tickets. Anyone getting the train every day has an annual or monthly ticket. Why would be buying two tickets?
I can also get the Connolly train but get off the train at Drumcondra and cycle to at a meeting in the IFSC or the Point, and be there before the someone who stayed on the train has even got out of Connolly station.
I've commuted from D15 to all over the Southside for a very long time. Its quickest by bicycle, then by car.
Slowest is public transport, train or bus, very similar times. I find the Luas painfully slow, so I rarely use it for commuting.0 -
Good connectivity means you can connect and interchange on the one form of transport not walk to a train station then exit walk another 10 minutes to another train stay ok and get on another train not to mention paying double the fare for doing this which also makes no sense.
No one in their right mind would ever consider walking 10 minutes between Docklands and Connolly nor does Irish Rail even offer it as a suggestion so I'm not sure why you're even calling it out as a negative option. Commuters would simply change at Clonsilla (or any other station as far as Broombridge) if they want to switch between Docklands/M3 Parkway services and Maynooth/Pearse/ Bray services and would still be considered a single Leap fare.
PS, criticizing Docklands for being badly located for not serving Leeson St workers is like me criticizing DART for being a poor service because it doesn't serve Ongar. It's unfortunate it's not convenient for you but it is for 1000s of others despite the packed trains. It's nearly always punctual unlike the outbound Maynooth trains also. I don't see any reason for Docklands station to be relocated as that area of town (north and south Docklands all the way out to Dublin Port on northside and to Grand Canal Dock on Southside is the new CBD of Dublin for increasing numbers of workers.0 -
Connected to a business area yes it is Dublin centre so that’s a no brainer and great for those who are lucky enough to work there , I’ve already advised I was speaking about those that work south of the Liffey or closer to SSG, the fact they are currently planning to move the station validates that, google docklands station and there are numerous articles about this in fact the only reason why it was built there was to connect to the dart underground which was shelved - this would have also seen Sligo and potentially Galway trains terminate here and you could interchange to other areas via the planned dart underground project that got shelved.
The station itself is only a temporary build with planning only ever granted for 15 years if I recall. Again all evidence not a great location with the absence of the other transport options that were meant to be implemented
All they were proposing is moving the docklands closer to the Luas stop. Which is currently 500 metres away. Its like 3 mins walk. They said they were doing it to boost passengers numbers. Which made no sense, as once the new offices like the central bank opened the train has been crammed. They've even reduced the number of carriages. How can you boost numbers if there's no space on the train and they've made it smaller. They built a bus park between them now. There's been loads of other massive offices opened all around it, out in East Wall road now and similar.
Made no sense then and even less now.0 -
Advertisement
-
No one in their right mind would ever consider walking 10 minutes between Docklands and Connolly ...
Well you're right people can change before if they want to get Connolly.
But you are underestimating how much slower the Connolly train is. It has an extra stop Drumcondra, its has a longer journey time, seems to go a lot slower, and it almost always gets delayed and stopped (for ages) on the tracks getting into Connolly. (does this going home now too) Then it takes 5 mins to exit the station.
The problem with Docklands, is people think it not near anything. But it literally only 10 mins walk from Connolly. Its actually 10 mins quicker to walk from docklands to lesson street bridge than it is from Connolly. You might say well I'd go to Pearse. But you usually have two switch trains and through two more stops to get there. (Yes i know there is one direct train, but its not much quicker).0 -
Its all abut the last mile and multi-modal. But we (as a nation) don't seem to have grasped that.
The irony, is I switched back to the car. It turned out quicker over the past year or so, and cancelled my annual tax saver.
However, its looking very likely that my office will switch to working from home most of the week after the crisis.
I suspect transport issues will be very different after this crisis.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 7778
They built a bus park between them now. There's been loads of other massive offices opened all around it, out in East Wall road now and similar.
I think the bus park entrance was a clever move by the NTA. Afaic the long term plan is to install the new Docklands Station under the old North Wall railway station. If the NTA had done anything other than installing a service road, we may have ended up with future calls to pick a different route to save the park.
I only hope Irish Rail is given funding to move the station in a way that's planned for long term integration into a future Dart Underground.0 -
I think that is off the table for a long time now.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cie-in-serious-financial-trouble-following-drop-in-passenger-numbers--nbru-998779.html0 -
Join Date:Posts: 7778
In other news IBEC is calling for a €15bn reboot of the Irish economy including the fast tracking of the Dart Interconnector. If there is going to be stimulus money, we may as well get something useful out of it!
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ibec-seeks-15bn-reboot-of-irish-economy-1.42505420 -
-
Agree with the above,
We are living in Hansfield Wood D15 - purchased because we were sold on the great transport links - however, have learned first hand this is not the case - outside of the fact the developer wont open the road linking our estate to the station in what should be a 5 minute stroll this currently adds an additional 20-30-minute walk (depending on where in our estate you are) to the station, this is before we board the train and we are considered as probably one of the closest developments in D15 to the train station.
The timetable is ridiculous and poor serviced with short packed trains only running directly every 30 minutes from 6:59am until roughly 11:30am - some not every 30 minutes and up to an hour in between service (couldn't find the exact timetable as CIE has taken it down) then there are no direct trains with the next direct train starting back at 4pm from the Docklands to Hansfield and they then stop at 7pm with no direct services at all.
- The other alternatives for people in this area is to get a shuttle train to Clonsilla station wait there and then potentially change again at Connolly if you need to go further south this takes about an hour at best not including commute to and from the stations at either end. The minimum run times from Hansfield to Docklands train station are 30 minutes on a good day and the Docklands station is in a crap location in town not really near anything.
For bus options in our area they include the fantastically marketed 39X which was marketed at 35 minutes into town but never takes less than 1 hour (and only operates a limited schedule in the morning and a small window at peak times) to get from town back to the Ongar road.
If you are really feeling like killing some time you can also take the very regular 39, this can take up to 2 hours at peak times given the massive amount of stops and the heavy traffic along the Navan road and up through Stoneybatter.
At best my commute is about 1hr 20 - 30 minutes each way daily between walking and trains to get to near work close to the Canal which is not a large distance by any measure.
I think saying well serviced should be defined, I would say this part of D15 has a decent selection of service, Yes there are multiple options to take a train (albeit a crap schedule) or the bus (which can take anything from 50 minutes to 2 hours depending on the day or traffic). However I think cramming a load more housing into D15 is only going to make this situation worse in the short term - medium term.
Up where we are there are over 1100 units approved with 700 under construction some up to 7 and 8 floors high (these heights are above Fingals own SDZ plan), we still have no public amenities and in our development we are over looking a fenced up park which was meant to have been completed when we moved in 2 years ago - the SDZ stated it must be completed prior to 500 residents moving into the SDZ area (there are at least 1100 in our development not including Barnwell, Beachwood and other developments in the SDZ with more and more coming on stream with 3 sites under construction currently despite the developers and council continuing to press on with more developments in contrary to their ow local SDZ being breached and public transport (pre covid) operating way above capacity.
I am 100% behind putting denser builds on good infrastructure links but allowing multiple developments being built beside train lines or on bus routes just because they exist does not constitute proper planning, these corridors are at breaking point already and developers are utilizing them as a reason to cram more people into the area and I agree there can be alot of NIMBYISM (if thats a word) but to be fair when they continue to increase densities out here in D15 when transport links are in no way excellent while allowing single and 2 story detached housing in Dublin city center there is clearly a bigger issue, why not enhance capacity and try shorten the commute times before putting more people here.
Our experience here leads me to think they will continue to get permission to build out here cramming as much people in as possible and leveraging off the fake news that there are excellent transport links in the are and this is sustainable development but that is definitely not the experience for some people already living here.
A prime example of this nonsense development I came across today is a recent application beside us for another 6 story apt block beside Hansfield train station with 80 odd 1 and 2 bed apts (alongside the current site where they are building 613 apts) the planning application itself states that there are train services running here every 15 minutes from Hansfield station - which is 100% not the case.
Anyway Fingal council and the developers up here wont be satisfied until every inch of zoned land is built upon and rates and levies get collected, as the title of the thread reads D15 will continue to get more and more congested and that is a fact
I thought I was the only one who had those thoughts.
Just back from a walk through that slum ongar and I can honestly say I'd rather be homeless than live in some of those apartment kips, also the locals are trying their best to keep the community spread of covid-19 truly alive.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 7778
The hardest part of any train service is getting the line built, Dart expansion will see the Maynooth and M3 Parkway lines converted to Dart standards. At this point it will be possible to have a 10 min Dart schedule running through Hansfield Station.
It makes no sense to build low density homes next to a heavy rail line.0 -
As long as the high density housing is of a good to high quality. Not the shoe boxes that Irish high density housing is generally associated with.The hardest part of any train service is getting the line built, Dart expansion will see the Maynooth and M3 Parkway lines converted to Dart standards. At this point it will be possible to have a 10 min Dart schedule running through Hansfield Station.
It makes no sense to build low density homes next to a heavy rail line.0 -
The hardest part of any train service is getting the line built, Dart expansion will see the Maynooth and M3 Parkway lines converted to Dart standards. At this point it will be possible to have a 10 min Dart schedule running through Hansfield Station.
It makes no sense to build low density homes next to a heavy rail line.
If the dart expansion goes ahead it will be the business and will 100% warrant the density but apologies if I’m cynical of it ever being finally rolled out based on the history of these projects getting shelved - the dart expansion was one of the reasons why we considered the area the issue is we will have all the densification well before the infrastructure - most likely years0 -
Advertisement
-
The hardest part of any train service is getting the line built, Dart expansion will see the Maynooth and M3 Parkway lines converted to Dart standards. At this point it will be possible to have a 10 min Dart schedule running through Hansfield Station.
It makes no sense to build low density homes next to a heavy rail line.
They should stick velcro to the sides of the train then. That's the only way those people will be getting on these trains.0 -
-
If the dart expansion goes ahead it will be the business and will 100% warrant the density but apologies if I’m cynical of it ever being finally rolled out based on the history of these projects getting shelved - the dart expansion was one of the reasons why we considered the area the issue is we will have all the densification well before the infrastructure - most likely years
Same here, it was a big factor on why I moved here, it was due within a couple of year. Allegedly. That was in 2004.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 7778
They should stick velcro to the sides of the train then. That's the only way those people will be getting on these trains.
Most of the overcrowding now is due to the use of intercity trains. The whole point of the upgrading to Dart standards is to massively increase the capacity.
People should put more effort into demanding capcity increase on the line instead of condemning homes being built next to heavy rail infrastructure.0 -
If the dart expansion goes ahead it will be the business and will 100% warrant the density but apologies if I’m cynical of it ever being finally rolled out based on the history of these projects getting shelved - the dart expansion was one of the reasons why we considered the area the issue is we will have all the densification well before the infrastructure - most likely years
I recall two significant pieces of infrastructure were to be built on Navan Road in the 1960’s. Lands near Cabra Cross, where the the large Tesco and Donard Estate are located. This site was originally reserved as a site for a new General Hospital.
Belvedere School was also supposed to move from Denmark’s St to where their Sport Grounds are currently located, beside Baggot rd and Navan Rd.
I am aware of several family that moved to the area in the 60’s expressly to live nearby. Most of the people concerned are now retired or have passed away, with the project never been built.
A number of Civil Servants I know also moved to various placeS as a result of the proposed Decentralisation. And now face long commutes to Dublin as a result of their Depts never moving.0 -
Most of the overcrowding now is due to the use of intercity trains. The whole point of the upgrading to Dart standards is to massively increase the capacity.
People should put more effort into demanding capcity increase on the line instead of condemning homes being built next to heavy rail infrastructure.
Can’t speak for anyone else but this was my number 1 issue when we had politicians knocking on our door for votes - they couldn’t give a rats ass we are packed like sardines into the train daily - easier for people to have a say in local housing planning vs any impact on infrastructure unless you live on Dunville Avenue and want to block infrastructure so you don’t have your local access rat run inconvenienced, local planning and govt backing behind public infrastructure is a joke in this country0 -
Most of the overcrowding now is due to the use of intercity trains. The whole point of the upgrading to Dart standards is to massively increase the capacity.
People should put more effort into demanding capcity increase on the line instead of condemning homes being built next to heavy rail infrastructure.
If all the planning goes ahead it vastly exceeds the capacity of the train line for the next 30 yrs.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 7778
-
Not really, it's pretty average for most European cities with similar rail infrastructure. They're not planning to build a mini manhattan on the other side of Hansfield station.
You should look at Alanna developments latest renders might change your mind - some smart hole has a 20 odd story tower behind the new 6 story block of flats they are looking to build (obviously just shoddy work but funny when you think they wouldn’t build it if they thought they would get away with it). Watch this space with 8 floors in Hansfield and with the new Barnhill road going ahead to open up that area for development this small area will have higher densities then places much closer to the city centre.0 -
Advertisement
-
Not really, it's pretty average for most European cities with similar rail infrastructure. They're not planning to build a mini manhattan on the other side of Hansfield station.
It exceeds it now.
3 out of the last 4 times I was on that train someone fainted and/or got sick. I've seen the train stopped for ambulances and people getting sick more times in the last 24 months than the previous 24yrs.0
Advertisement