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The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Akrasia wrote: »
    They’re just spoofers in every way that actually matters. spoofing the number of deaths, spoofing the number of cases and spoofing the number of tests.

    They’re also spoofing the science, spoofing the lockdown and will probably end up spoofing the roadmap to raising the lockdown which will possibly result in the worst 2nd wave in Europe to go along with the worst 1st wave


    And half the UK population will cheer them on as the mass graves are dug and their economy evaporates around them

    Brexit hasn’t gone away either, these spoofers are still trying to engineer a no deal crash out in 7 months time. It’s breathtaking how a once respectable country/union has so comprehensively self destructed in such a short timeframe

    Excellent post. Be it PPE, testing, mortality rates, staffing or containment, they have lied consistently. As you say, as a functioning democracy, the UK is unrecognisable today.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,518 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    To be honest, I get the impression that professional pricks like Brendan O'Neil and Toby Young are the sort of people who would have switched their lights on during the blitz as some sort of onanistic act of defiance for freedom.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    To be honest, I get the impression that professional pricks like Brendan O'Neil and Toby Young are the sort of people who would have switched their lights on during the blitz as some sort of onanistic act of defiance for freedom.

    Or started up a home for stray rats during the plague. They are utterly wedded to some anarchic ideology that puts right wing fantasies before society and people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    The Sunday morning rounds seem to suggest that there will be a speech next Sunday about the roadmap to exiting the lockdown.

    As anticipated the Government wouldn't want to announce anything the day before the public holiday next Friday.

    I'm not sure where the comment about Brendan O'Neill and Toby Young came up, was there an article of note? Also - I don't think calling people "professional pricks" is a comment that adds a lot to conversation. How about explaining what is objectionable about what they said and why and that could be interesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 459 ✭✭myfreespirit



    Rival group to UK government's scientific advice set up

    A lack of transparency over the advice guiding the UK government's coronavirus response has spurred a former chief scientific adviser to create his own "independent" group.

    Sir David King said he was worried about the lack of transparency around the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) committee and keen to "demonstrate what independent science advice looks like".

    This clip is from an article that appears in the BBC live feed on the news website just now.

    It is truly extraordinary that a rival expert group is being established to essentially challenge the SAGE group at a time of national crisis, but it reflects a level of unease about just how independent the SAGE advice actually is.

    The effect of Sir David King's action might undermine SAGE credibility, although you would have to think that he didn't do this lightly.
    What it does say is that the recent media coverage about the type of expertise on the SAGE panel is worrying real independent experts to the extent that want to demonstrate true transparency.

    Above all, it is further evidence of the current UK government's lack of transparency throughout the CoViD-19 pandemic in the UK.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,301 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Scotland:
    In hospital: 1,666 (-8)
    In ICU: 99 (-9)
    Total confirmed positive cases: 12,097 (+170)
    Total deaths with confirmed positive COVID-19: 1,571 (+12)

    Therefore as it stands, there are a minimum of 2,581 (1,571+1,010) deaths in Scotland (confirmed positive and suspected)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Interesting that the Culture Secretary would send a letter to the BBC about their program on PPE shortages.

    BBC stands firm against minister's criticism of Panorama show on PPE

    This is most definitely not a case of going after the messenger because you don't like the message.:rolleyes:
    The BBC has stood by its defence of a Panorama investigation exposing shortages of personal protective equipment (PPE) among healthcare workers, after a formal complaint from the culture secretary.

    Oliver Dowden, in a letter to the BBC director general, Tony Hall, claimed the corporation was at risk of losing the public’s confidence amid accusations of political bias.

    Last week Panorama reported that gowns, visors, swabs and body bags were left out of the government’s stockpile when it was set up in 2009. Some of the items are now in short supply.

    Since the programme aired, a number of NHS workers who were interviewed for it were reported to be either longstanding members or supporters of the Labour party.

    I saw a tweet commenting that they should check the political affiliation of those that have died, they might come to the conclusion that this was all just a ploy from Labour members to embarrass the Tories.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    Was this political divide always front and centre of all UK matters throughout the years. I'm only here 10 years so I'm not sure if the same bullsh*t was happening during all previous national crises, regardless of whether it was Labour or the Conservatives in charge?

    I'm finding it really disheartening but not sure if it's just a way of life here or things have reached some new level of absurdity?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,518 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    S.M.B. wrote: »
    Was this political divide always front and centre of all UK matters throughout the years. I'm only here 10 years so I'm not sure if the same bullsh*t was happening during all previous national crises, regardless of whether it was Labour or the Conservatives in charge?

    I'm finding it really disheartening but not sure if it's just a way of life here or things have reached some new level of absurdity?

    Partly. To be honest, it's Brexit that has exacerbated the political divide. In terms of national crises, that's probably the main one for a long time.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I'm not sure where the comment about Brendan O'Neill and Toby Young came up, was there an article of note? Also - I don't think calling people "professional pricks" is a comment that adds a lot to conversation. How about explaining what is objectionable about what they said and why and that could be interesting.

    The British Media is chock full of Tory/Brexit activists masquerading as journalists. They write puff-pieces about Boris Johnson and his government while writing vicious attacks on their opponents. Generally the aim is to set different factions of the general public against one another rather than focus on speaking truth to power. Brendan O'Neill and Toby Young are two of the more odious examples of this phenomenon in that they seem to revel in their role as pantomime villains.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Gove is at the press briefing today. First question from the public and he has mentioned this is a new virus that everyone is learning from. I hope to get the bingo of "Stay at home, save the nhs, save lives", "unprecedented challenge" to win.

    As for the tests, due to the weekend they have dipped below 100K tests for yesterday.

    https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/status/1256969577554206720?s=20


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    I don't think calling people "professional pricks" is a comment that adds a lot to conversation. How about explaining what is objectionable about what they said and why and that could be interesting.

    50,000 corpses laying on slabs, but let's not be impolite about it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    Partly. To be honest, it's Brexit that has exacerbated the political divide. In terms of national crises, that's probably the main one for a long time.
    I really am struggling with it, everything is just steeped in tribalism at this stage. It's just another layer of bullsh*t on top of what's already an incredibly difficult situation. Genuinely thinking of resorting to the "bury my head in sand" strategy at this stage.


  • Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    50,000 corpses laying on slabs, but let's not be impolite about it!

    Classy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Aegir wrote: »
    Classy.




    Well I suppose it's subjective.
    Some might be upset that there are bodies on said slabs.
    Others might be more upset that someone would point it out rather than the fact that they are dead.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Aegir wrote: »
    Classy.

    You can always tell when a post cuts to the bone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,916 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    You can always tell when a post is extremely insensitive.

    Fixed that for you.


  • Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    S.M.B. wrote: »
    Was this political divide always front and centre of all UK matters throughout the years. I'm only here 10 years so I'm not sure if the same bullsh*t was happening during all previous national crises, regardless of whether it was Labour or the Conservatives in charge?

    I'm finding it really disheartening but not sure if it's just a way of life here or things have reached some new level of absurdity?

    There are political divisions in the U.K., but if you are looking for somewhere to get a balanced view then this is most certainly not the place.

    This thread, like the Brexit threads, the thread on the U.K. general election and the the general British politics thread are simply an echo chamber, where any post that is not a direct criticism of the U.K. government (or to be precise, the Conservative party) is just shut down as defending the Tories. You’ll note the distinct lack of critique of the Stormont and Holyrood governments.

    British politics may become far less polarised now that labour has a decent leader rather than the 1970s socialist they had previously, time will tell. Unfortunately due to weak flip flopping opposition, the Conservative party were able to get re elected with a very poor leadership, an election result that the far left are still hurt by.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    50,000 corpses laying on slabs, but let's not be impolite about it!

    A particular distasteful post. There are people dead all over the world including the republic. Have some respect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    I wonder what the opinion of our UK contributors are to the proposed NHS contact tracing app?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Fixed that for you.

    Edgy.

    Some people are very tetchy this weekend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,712 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Akrasia wrote: »

    Brexit hasn’t gone away either, these spoofers are still trying to engineer a no deal crash out in 7 months time. It’s breathtaking how a once respectable country/union has so comprehensively self destructed in such a short timeframe

    There is a rumor circulating at the moment that Dominic Cummings was seen making trips to China in the weeks before the outbreak began giving rise to speculation that Cummings collaborated with China to engineer the Covid pandemic in an attempt to delay negotiations so as to bring about a no deal Brexit come the end of the year.

    He'll prolly deny it as say he was actually overseeing refurbishments of the Death Star at the time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Aegir wrote: »
    There are political divisions in the U.K., but if you are looking for somewhere to get a balanced view then this is most certainly not the place.

    This thread, like the Brexit threads, the thread on the U.K. general election and the the general British politics thread are simply an echo chamber, where any post that is not a direct criticism of the U.K. government (or to be precise, the Conservative party) is just shut down as defending the Tories. You’ll note the distinct lack of critique of the Stormont and Holyrood governments.

    British politics may become far less polarised now that labour has a decent leader rather than the 1970s socialist they had previously, time will tell. Unfortunately due to weak flip flopping opposition, the Conservative party were able to get re elected with a very poor leadership, an election result that the far left are still hurt by.


    The amount of deflection and whataboutery engaged on here by those offering the different view means the thread can become adversarial. The jumps to slight the Labour party, like it is some slight on Irish people who has no real affinity for the party and cannot vote for them is strange as well. I note that your post itself again offers no real data points to links or points made on the thread other than to moan about how much of a echo chamber it is.

    I expect you are itching to use NHS_Susan as an example now, on how we go overboard on here. As for the the criticism of Holyrood or Stormont, well I think it is easy to see how following the UK approach seemed to work out north of the border.

    Coronavirus: Ireland is one island with two very different death rates
    There is now strong evidence of two Covid-19 death rates on the island of Ireland. Far from being one epidemiological unit, public-health policies for fighting the disease either side of the Border have produced different results.

    As for the SNP, show me video of their leader make light of the virus by making jokes about the operation to secure more ventilators or bragging about shaking hands with people who were possibly infected when it should have been evident at that this is a serious disease that needed, well just not Boris the joker at the helm.

    There has been way too much complaining about this thread than engaging with the posts that people find offensive.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Enzokk wrote: »
    I wonder what the opinion of our UK contributors are to the proposed NHS contact tracing app?

    Any particular point you want to mention?

    Seems like a necessary tool to enable speed of contacting people. Not sure if enough people will make use of it for it to be useful. Not sure what Apple and Google problem with it is. Not sure how they control the self declaration of someone having symptoms will be controlled, although now testing is more available maybe the self declaration isn't needed. Not sure if I'd use it as my office window is right on a busy street so if people queue on the street outside or stand around for a smoke then I'll get linked to their chain of contacts. Need to know what details the government is actually collecting to link phones to people and what they are then allowed to do with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    The British Media is chock full of Tory/Brexit activists masquerading as journalists. They write puff-pieces about Boris Johnson and his government while writing vicious attacks on their opponents. Generally the aim is to set different factions of the general public against one another rather than focus on speaking truth to power. Brendan O'Neill and Toby Young are two of the more odious examples of this phenomenon in that they seem to revel in their role as pantomime villains.

    That's no excuse for calling people "professional pricks" in the place of a reasoned argument.

    It seems like increasingly name calling is being used as a substitute for argument here. I would have thought moderators were meant to be an example to us as to how to post on here.
    50,000 corpses laying on slabs, but let's not be impolite about it!

    And there's definitely no excuse for this.

    I don't know why people can't keep the thread to reasonable arguments rather than descending into ad hominems.

    Enzokk wrote: »
    I wonder what the opinion of our UK contributors are to the proposed NHS contact tracing app?

    I'll definitely be downloading it if it can help keep us safe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Enzokk wrote: »
    I wonder what the opinion of our UK contributors are to the proposed NHS contact tracing app?

    Watching the news,in the countries it's currently available people appear 'underwhelmed'with it.Only 20% of the population of Singapore are using it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    robinph wrote: »
    Any particular point you want to mention?

    Seems like a necessary tool to enable speed of contacting people. Not sure if enough people will make use of it for it to be useful. Not sure what Apple and Google problem with it is. Not sure how they control the self declaration of someone having symptoms will be controlled, although now testing is more available maybe the self declaration isn't needed. Not sure if I'd use it as my office window is right on a busy street so if people queue on the street outside or stand around for a smoke then I'll get linked to their chain of contacts. Need to know what details the government is actually collecting to link phones to people and what they are then allowed to do with it.


    I think the idea of such an app is good, I am not sure I would be comfortable if I didn't know how my data would be used. Seems to me the UK and France is going a bit against the grain by going for a centralised system of collecting the data instead of a decentralised system that is being done by most other European countries and it is the system used by Google and Apple.

    I think people would have a problem if there is a way their data can be used for more than just checking for contact tracing. It seems at the moment this is what the centralised system is more pointed towards. The problem I guess then is will enough people install the system to make it functional if there is a cloud on how your personal data will be used.

    I don't even know if the other system will work, but it is interesting to see where the countries go. I actually think people will not be too concerned about their data, they will look at battery usage more than anything and if any app drains too much battery people will not use it.

    Legal Advice on Smartphone Contact Tracing Published
    Its conclusions include the following:
    • A de-centralised smartphone contact tracing system – the type contemplated by “DP-3T” and being considered by governments across Europe and also Apple and Google – would be likely to comply with both human rights and data protection laws. In contrast, a centralised smartphone system – which is the current UK Government proposal – is a greater interference with fundamental rights and would require significantly greater justification to be lawful. That justification has not yet been forthcoming.
    • The UK Government’s announcements in March and April for sharing health data between the private and public sector appear to be flawed. This means such data sharing is potentially not in compliance with legal requirements. Further information needs to be provided to ensure compliance and a data impact assessment should be conducted and made public.
    • Any attempt to introduce ‘immunity passports’ would be a dramatic measure, both socially and legally. It would need a clear scientific basis and would also have to address the significant impact on fundamental rights including the risk of indirect discrimination.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    That's no excuse for calling people "professional pricks" in the place of a reasoned argument.

    It seems like increasingly name calling is being used as a substitute for argument here. I would have thought moderators were meant to be an example to us as to how to post on here.



    And there's definitely no excuse for this.

    I don't know why people can't keep the thread to reasonable arguments rather than descending into ad hominems.




    I'll definitely be downloading it if it can help keep us safe.

    I agree over the 'professional pricks'post and have noticed since that was posted it appears to have encouraged some pretty horrendous,distasteful comments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    Aegir wrote: »
    There are political divisions in the U.K., but if you are looking for somewhere to get a balanced view then this is most certainly not the place.
    To be honest, I'm not looking for a 'balanced view'. I'm looking for an apolitical view where analysis of a governments approach isn't met with this tribalistic bullsh*t in such important times.

    I'm looking for this on a micro level when it comes to online discussion like this thread and a macro level from the media and the government itself but I'm starting to think it's not possible.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Enzokk wrote: »
    I think the idea of such an app is good, I am not sure I would be comfortable if I didn't know how my data would be used. Seems to me the UK and France is going a bit against the grain by going for a centralised system of collecting the data instead of a decentralised system that is being done by most other European countries and it is the system used by Google and Apple.

    I think people would have a problem if there is a way their data can be used for more than just checking for contact tracing. It seems at the moment this is what the centralised system is more pointed towards. The problem I guess then is will enough people install the system to make it functional if there is a cloud on how your personal data will be used.

    I don't even know if the other system will work, but it is interesting to see where the countries go. I actually think people will not be too concerned about their data, they will look at battery usage more than anything and if any app drains too much battery people will not use it.

    Legal Advice on Smartphone Contact Tracing Published

    I think this will place a lot of people in a very deep dilemma. The instinct to want to participate in any scheme that helps fight the crisis against the lack of trust many of them will have in the government when it comes to sharing data, no matter what reassurance they are given. I'd bet this will manifest itself in a lower than desired take up.

    Doesn't have to be a disaster as long as the manual tracing system proves up to scratch.


This discussion has been closed.
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