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Gold cgt

  • 26-04-2020 12:51am
    #1
    Empty_Space
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭


    Is there any type of gold excempt from capital gains tax in Ireland?
    Info impossible to find.
    E.g in UK brittania and sovereign coins are excempt.


Comments

  • #2
    Empty_Space
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Empty_Space


    Bump


  • #3
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    Empty_Space wrote: »
    Is there any type of gold excempt from capital gains tax in Ireland?
    Info impossible to find.
    E.g in UK brittania and sovereign coins are excempt.

    It's exempt on the basis that it is considered currency and legal tender for UK residents only.

    In Ireland, the Euro is legal tender, however not aware of another Gold based currency recognized as legal tender here.


  • #4
    Empty_Space
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Empty_Space


    thegolfer wrote: »
    It's exempt on the basis that it is considered currency and legal tender for UK residents only.

    In Ireland, the Euro is legal tender, however not aware of another Gold based currency recognized as legal tender here.

    What about this?
    https://irishgoldbullion.ie/austrian-gold-philharmonic-coin


  • #5
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    Empty_Space wrote: »
    What about this?
    https://irishgoldbullion.ie/austrian-gold-philharmonic-coin

    Is it recognized as a currency of the State, Ireland?


  • #6
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    As per THIS THREAD I was told there is no such exception in Ireland...


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  • #7
    Empty_Space
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Empty_Space


    iAcesHigh wrote: »
    As per THIS THREAD I was told there is no such exception in Ireland...

    Thanks, did you end up buying any Gold anyway?


  • #8
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    Empty_Space wrote: »
    Thanks, did you end up buying any Gold anyway?

    Nope, TBH seems to big of a hassle if I'm paying CGT, so I'm actually considering Kirkland Land Gold. Still in assessing mode, but it seems to be well run company with quite a big estimates for this and years to come. Their books seem quite clean and promising. If at the same time Gold does go up...

    Alternative I'm considering would be ETF: PHAU if I go for short term investment (no commission when buying, but 0.39% running cost) or SGBS for longer term investment (regular buying commission, but only 0.19% running costs). Tax on those is bigger (41%), but you don't have the hassle of organising when/how to receive gold, where to safely store it and how to sell it at a later stage...

    On the side note, I was wondering if Revenue would even care about my 2-3 coins if Irish gold bullion doesn't regularly "report" buyers either way, but not sure if I can be bothered...


  • #9
    Empty_Space
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Empty_Space


    iAcesHigh wrote: »
    Nope, TBH seems to big of a hassle if I'm paying CGT, so I'm actually considering Kirkland Land Gold. Still in assessing mode, but it seems to be well run company with quite a big estimates for this and years to come. Their books seem quite clean and promising. If at the same time Gold does go up...

    Alternative I'm considering would be ETF: PHAU if I go for short term investment (no commission when buying, but 0.39% running cost) or SGBS for longer term investment (regular buying commission, but only 0.19% running costs). Tax on those is bigger (41%), but you don't have the hassle of organising when/how to receive gold, where to safely store it and how to sell it at a later stage...

    On the side note, I was wondering if Revenue would even care about my 2-3 coins if Irish gold bullion doesn't regularly "report" buyers either way, but not sure if I can be bothered...

    Check BullionVault if you would like to invest without high premiums or hassle of delivery etc. Of course you are still subnet to CGT though.


  • #10
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    Empty_Space wrote: »
    Check BullionVault if you would like to invest without high premiums or hassle of delivery etc. Of course you are still subnet to CGT though.

    From tax perspective though, I presume I need to keep my receipt of original purchase so I can prove "gain" when selling? Also, is selling "hassle-free" really, or you need to wait for the buyer?


  • #11
    Empty_Space
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Empty_Space


    iAcesHigh wrote: »
    From tax perspective though, I presume I need to keep my receipt of original purchase so I can prove "gain" when selling? Also, is selling "hassle-free" really, or you need to wait for the buyer?

    Yes, hassle free. You just sell back to BullionVault.
    You sell at spot price plus .5 percent fee. So much cheaper then dealing with physical gold you hold yourself.

    Really imo, any etf etc around gold kind of defeats the purpose of gold. You want gold that actually exists.


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  • #12
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    Empty_Space wrote: »
    Yes, hassle free. You just sell back to BullionVault.
    You sell at spot price plus .5 percent fee. So much cheaper then dealing with physical gold you hold yourself.

    Really imo, any etf etc around gold kind of defeats the purpose of gold. You want gold that actually exists.

    I was thinking about the last bit for quite a while and I don't agree at all. Buying ETC like THIS gives you same value for money as even taxes on ETC are 33%, same as for physical gold without the hassle or any, no matter how small, cost of keeping it safe....


  • #13
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Empty_Space wrote: »
    What about this?
    https://irishgoldbullion.ie/austrian-gold-philharmonic-coin

    Surely if this is legal tender in Austria (which it is), a Eurozone country, and has a face value of €100 then it is legal tender here and thus CGT exempt?


  • #14
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    schmittel wrote: »
    Surely if this is legal tender in Austria (which it is), a Eurozone country, and has a face value of €100 then it is legal tender here and thus CGT exempt?

    Where are you tax resident?

    If you are Irish tax resident then you operate within the provisions of Irish taxation as set out, if you are Austrian resident then you can avail of their rules.


  • #15
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    thegolfer wrote: »
    Where are you tax resident?

    If you are Irish tax resident then you operate within the provisions of Irish taxation as set out, if you are Austrian resident then you can avail of their rules.

    I am tax resident in Ireland, a country in which Austrian currency is legal tender.

    The provisions of Irish taxation say that currency is which is legal tender is not subject to CGT.


  • #16
    thegolfer
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    schmittel wrote: »
    I am tax resident in Ireland, a country in which Austrian currency is legal tender.

    The provisions of Irish taxation say that currency is which is legal tender is not subject to CGT.

    Good. In the same way that Irish collection coins are issued these are legal tender in the state of issuance. See the central bank and the FAQ

    Irish collector coins are only legal tender in Ireland. They are not considered legal tender in other Eurozone countries.

    While Austria uses the Euro, it is the EU which legislates for currency in Europe.

    Collector coins are legal tender in Austria only, those which may be issued by the Austrian Mint.

    A foreign government cannot legislate for monetary policy or tax policy in Ireland.


  • #17
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    thegolfer wrote: »
    Good. In the same way that Irish collection coins are issued these are legal tender in the state of issuance. See the central bank and the FAQ

    Irish collector coins are only legal tender in Ireland. They are not considered legal tender in other Eurozone countries.

    While Austria uses the Euro, it is the EU which legislates for currency in Europe.

    Collector coins are legal tender in Austria only, those which may be issued by the Austrian Mint.

    A foreign government cannot legislate for monetary policy or tax policy in Ireland.

    Interestingly the status of this is far from clear cut - i.e there is no legislation stating the collector coins are not legal tender outside Austria, but there are recommendations to discourage their circulation.
    Though Euro collector coins are legal tender in the Member State of issuance, this legal tender aims only at distinguishing them form medals. Collector coins should not be used as means of payments. Member States should take all appropriate measures to prevent these coins from circulating

    So if they are not legal tender, are these coins chattels and thus qualify for the CGT €2,540 exemption or are they foreign currency?


  • #18
    lchulo
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭lchulo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/113723972#Comment_113723972

    Could somebody confirm this ? I guess it's grey area but if it's a legal tender in a Eurozone, that should be CGT exempt in Ireland.



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