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Flight cancellation refunds: Updated June 8th

  • 25-04-2020 08:06PM
    #1
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭


    Flight cancellations: How to get a cash refund guide. Updated June 8th.

    This guide applies to Ryanair and Aer Lingus cancelled flights
    originating in Ireland booked directly with the airline
    or indirectly through travel agents.
    Best Options:

    1. Best completely free: Chargeback/PayPal to credit/debit card.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...8069347&page=7

    2. Good but slow completely free: Regulator www.flightsrights.ie

    3. Unknown completely free: Resolver. https://www.resolver.co.uk/

    4. Working for Aer Lingus, Ryanair fighting. 25 Euro Small Claims Court.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2058071799

    5. Long shot: Travel insurance, need to show you have tried all other options.
    Insurance as usual will defend,

    6. Very long shot and expensive: Commercial paid for (25%) refund services.

    Full Guide

    If you are not in a hurry the best advise is to apply for a cash refund and wait.
    Don't stress with chatbots and call centres, just post your refund request to the airline.

    You will get your money back eventually, could be 12 months or more with Ryanair.

    Irish law allows 6 years for debt recovery.
    You will only loose your money in the extremely unlikely event of Aer Lingus or Ryanair going bust.

    If your flight is scheduled do not cancel it. You will loose your fare.
    Wait for the airline to officially cancel it.

    A full refund is valid when a flight is cancelled on either leg of the journey.

    Refunds are processed for all passengers on the booking.

    Ignore voucher offers, they simply limit your options unless they offer some bonus,
    Aer Lingus offered 10% extra and 5 year expiry.
    Several other international airlines are offering a 15% and 20% bonus.

    Carefully review Terms and Conditions before accepting.

    A voucher is not the same as cash.
    Request refund for all processes

    You need to make a reasonable effort to inform the airline that you want a cash refund.

    This can be done online or by post.
    There is no requirement to spend your time jumping through the hoops the airlines erect to make it difficult to get your money.

    You do not have to:

    1. Spend hours waiting for a response from the airline. Give it 15 minutes.
    2. Phone any call centre.
    3. Wait on a chatbot.
    4. Accept or reject any voucher.

    You only need to make one refund request.
    Despite what emails from airline might insinuate.

    Refund request web forms:

    https://refundclaims.ryanair.com/

    https://www.aerlingus.com/support/fo...ravel-enquiry/

    You should get an automatic email reply with case number.

    If you find you are having a problem with the online request process you can always use good old An Post.

    Mail cash refund request, include:
    The booking reference

    Your details,

    Passenger details,

    Flight details,

    Total costand that the request is applicable to all passengers and flights on the booking.

    Mail to:

    Refunds, Customer Service Department, Ryanair DAC, Airside Business Park, Swords Co. Dublin.

    Guest Relations Department, Aer Lingus Head Office, Dublin Airport, Co Dublin K67 PW99

    Take a photo of the completed envelope as proof. You do not have to send this letter by registered post.

    You can make your claim 10 days after you have requested your refund.

    1.
    Bank Chargeback and PayPal

    PayPal have a formal refund process which has got mixed reviews.
    PayPal has a robust approach to suppliers in favour of the consumer.
    It seems to be working with Ryanair which is worth noting for future purcahses.

    Chargeback is a voluntary process operated by the banks.
    It is not a legal process, but banks are supposed to operate
    to set of guidelines from the card companies.
    It is usually hard copy form based.

    If your bank is resisting, ask them to quote the reason per the card issuer guidelines.

    The airline did not provide the service you paid for.
    You did not agree to buy a voucher.

    Chances of success: Good for Bank of Ireland, N26 and Avantcard, other banks slower and messier.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2058069347

    2.
    Regulator

    www.flightrights.ie CAR (Commission for Aviation Regulation).

    CAR operate a completely free complaint process for refunds that is easy to use and work very well.
    It can be slow. CAR seem to have an approach that youll get your money eventually.

    https://www.flightrights.ie/home/com...edure.452.html

    Ignore 4-6 week standrd recommended wait, lodge complaint when you can.

    Chances of success: Very good.

    3.
    Resolver

    Resolver is completely free service operated by Martin Lewis.

    The advantage here is that it can help where for airlines who are registered outside Ireland
    where SCC has no jurisdiction apart from the European Small claims process.

    https://www.resolver.co.uk/

    Chances of success: Unknown.

    4.
    Small Claims Court

    25 Euro non refundable fee. Airline must respond within 15 calendar days or you win.

    Aer Lingus are paying up.
    Ryanair are adapting a kitchen sink defence.

    Five step guide here:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2058071799

    Don't be put off by the court in the title, it is all online, you don't initially have to appear in court or hire a solicitor.
    If the airline disputes the claim you will have a choice to proceed or drop the case.

    Chances of success: Good for Aer Lingus, Ryanair will contest with a loing delay to potential court case.

    5.
    Travel insurance.

    Insurance companies are just like the airlines they love taking your money.
    They are a lot more reluctant to paying money out.

    Varies by policy and company.
    Insurance companies expect you to try all other avenues before they will even consider paying out.

    Chances of success: Extremely limited.

    6.
    Commercial refund service

    Paid for (~25% of refund) commercial refund service.

    These services send your request into the airline in a standard refund claim format.

    Chances of success: Hard to see this working in Covid environment.

    Refund background


    The airlines are delaying cash refunds for flight cancellations in clear breach of the law, EU261 Article 8 which states:

    Right to reimbursement -
    "Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall
    be offered ...... (a) a cash reimbursement within seven days"

    The airlines have employed a range of tactics to hinder the consumer requesting or getting a refund.

    This is not a Covid problem, employee distancing issue or lack of computer software resources.

    The airlines have your money and they want to keep it and sell you restrictive vouchers.

    At a minimum the airlines should provide some sort of bonus without restrictions for keeping your money.

    Despite what Michael O'Leary claims the refund process can be automated.
    Sad that the regulator bought this waffle without consulting any computer expert.
    The airlines could setup a wallet system with an option to request a refund from the wallet.
    Money in the wallet could be treated like cash.

    Ryanair are upfront in breaking the law and have no plan in complying with the law
    until Michael O'Leary deems "the crisis has passed".
    He claims he cannot automate cash refunds.
    TicketMaster, not exactly a leading light in consumer satisfaction, do just that when a concert is cancelled.

    The Commission for (No) Aviation Regulation (CnAR) has supported this
    deliberate breach of the law in its statement referencing employee safety.

    Aer Lingus are fast with 7 day promises but when questioned talk about 2 to 3 months delay.

    It is not capability, it is motivation that delays the airlines giving you back your money.
    CnAR needs to provide the motivation.

    A 100 Euro fine, per refund, per day and the airlines would have every refund processed in 72 hours.

    Why can't CnAR support a system that allows 7 day cash refunds for the people who want cash and
    offer a great bonus offer for everybody else.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • #2
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    The above are your only your opinions especially charge back being 'limited'.


  • #3
    JTMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    The above are your only your opinions especially charge back being 'limited'.

    I think it is fair to call charge back process limited.
    • AIB are refusing to do travel charge backs. AIB have put this in black and white on their website despite the fact that it might not be legal.
    • PTSB are in many cases refusing to do travel charge backs. Multiple posters have reported this.
    • I personally have had no luck with Revolut doing a charge back thus far.
    • People are reporting problems with multiple other banks doing charge backs.

    As Paddy19 said, N26 are paying out and payouts also seem to have occured with airlines that have gone to the wall/bankrupt but by-in-large charge backs are not working as they should. But given that charge backs are free there is no harm trying if the bank will let you try.


  • #4
    irelandspurs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    Anyone any success with scc?


  • #5
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    irelandspurs wrote: »
    Anyone any success with scc?

    Most people have just started with SCC, so 15 days for airline response.

    Process is fast and easy.

    I'm on day 12 and no response from Aer Lingus.

    So update on Thursday.


  • #6
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,390 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    paddy19 wrote: »
    Most people have just started, so 15 days for airline response.

    I'm on day 12 and no response from Aer Lingus.

    So update on Thursday.
    I requested a refund from aer lingus over 6 weeks ago and still heard absolutely nothing


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  • #7
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    gmisk wrote: »
    I requested a refund from aer lingus over 6 weeks ago and still heard absolutely nothing

    Consensus seems to be 2 to 3 months at best for Aer Lingus.
    They are hoping for legislation for mandatory vouchers.


  • #8
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,390 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    paddy19 wrote: »
    Consensus seems to be 2 to 3 months at best for Aer Lingus.
    They are hoping for legislation for mandatory vouchers.
    Wow! Seriously?!
    It looks like on Twitter some people from April have got refunds


  • #9
    JTMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭JTMan


    gmisk wrote: »
    Wow! Seriously?!
    It looks like on Twitter some people from April have got refunds

    It seems that only a tiny number of people have got refunds and that Aer Lingus seem to have stopped/stalled further payments after they gave those customers refunds.

    I put in for a refund on 16 March for a cancelled flight and I'm still waiting.


  • #10
    Roanmore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    If I don't redeem the Ryanair voucher will they automatically refund the cash or what will happen?


  • #11
    irelandspurs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    paddy19 wrote: »
    Most people have just started with SCC, so 15 days for airline response.

    Process is fast and easy.

    I'm on day 12 and no response from Aer Lingus.

    So update on Thursday.

    I started it last week and still at case not initiated stage, like they haven't looked at it yet.


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  • #12
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    irelandspurs wrote: »
    I started it last week and still at case not initiated stage, like they haven't looked at it yet.

    Take a look at the blue Events tab in your account.

    You should be seeing, Case Preparing and Claim Submitted.

    Best to email sccadmin@courts.ie to get them to have a look at your account.


  • #13
    Roanmore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    On this point

    Shane Ross/Heather Humphreys are threatening to introduce legislation
    that will force passengers to accept vouchers instead of cash refunds.



    Can this be done as the Seaned can not pass any legislation due to the situation we are in? Will this have to wait until the new Government is formed?


  • #14
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Roanmore wrote: »
    On this point

    Shane Ross/Heather Humphreys are threatening to introduce legislation
    that will force passengers to accept vouchers instead of cash refunds.

    Can this be done as the Seaned can not pass any legislation due to the situation we are in? Will this have to wait until the new Government is formed?

    Happily this is true, otherwise they would have done it already!

    However, even with the best of processes like the SCC it takes time to extract money from the airlines.

    The airlines want to delay, delay delay....


  • #15
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    I'm going to sticky this for a while to help people out, but lock it because it would be better to have one refund thread.


  • #16
    Thebeast078
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭Thebeast078


    irelandspurs wrote: »
    I started it last week and still at case not initiated stage, like they haven't looked at it yet.

    Same as me, just at case initiated.


  • #17
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Thebeast078 wrote: »
    Same as me, just at case initiated.

    Can you check on the events tab?

    I see on mine:

    Claim Preparing
    Claim Submitted
    Claim Approved
    Claim Issued

    You need to get to the "Claim Submitted" stage.

    I'm not sure but I think when you have all the details in the system,
    a "Submit Claim" button appears.


  • #18
    eltonyio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭eltonyio


    Same status as mine. I completed the form 7 days ago.


    When I login now, it has a Case Number tab, with Case Not Initiated under this.


    Under Last Event tab it has Claim Submitted.


    The email advises ' We will be in contact with you via this email address in due course to let you know if your claim is appropriate for the Small Claims procedure.'


    I haven't been further contacted/ paid a fee yet.



    I assume it just takes a while at this stage, especially given the circumstances.


  • #19
    eltonyio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭eltonyio


    They have a new social media update:

    We are experiencing an unprecedented volume of messages here on social media due to Covid-19, so we ask you to bear with us at this busy time.

    If you have received a voucher from us via email, please rest assured that you can use the voucher to book over the next 12 months and travel beyond that date. In the event you don’t use the voucher at all, you will receive a full cash refund after the expiry date, this also applies to a part cash refund for the unused part of the voucher.

    Please use our DM tool here on Facebook to register on the cash refund queue if you don’t wish to use the voucher and we will be in contact with you directly via email. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can.


  • #20
    eltonyio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭eltonyio


    The automated DM system on Facebook is quite good actually, probably another delaying tactic but it's very simple to use compare to their chatbot. 2 mins and the refund request is in, with a response 'Thanks for providing your booking information, an agent will now add you to the cash refund queue and will be in contact with you directly via email.'


  • #21
    Mrcaramelchoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    Roanmore wrote: »
    If I don't redeem the Ryanair voucher will they automatically refund the cash or what will happen?

    Could anyone answer this please?


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  • #22
    eltonyio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭eltonyio


    It's in their new FB post today:


    "In the event you don’t use the voucher at all, you will receive a full cash refund after the expiry date, this also applies to a part cash refund for the unused part of the voucher."


    Whether you choose to wait 12 months for an unused voucher to be refunded (and also if you believe them on that) or if you want to go via chargeback, small claims court, refund request via another route that's up to you. Nobody knows yet which is effective


  • #23
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    eltonyio wrote: »
    Same status as mine. I completed the form 7 days ago.

    When I login now, it has a Case Number tab, with Case Not Initiated under this.

    Under Last Event tab it has Claim Submitted.

    The email advises ' We will be in contact with you via this email address in due course to let you know if your claim is appropriate for the Small Claims procedure.'

    I haven't been further contacted/ paid a fee yet.

    I assume it just takes a while at this stage, especially given the circumstances.

    I wonder have we buried them with claims?

    Can you give us a rough idea of your case number so we can see how many cases they have got recently?

    Mine is the 216X range.


  • #24
    eltonyio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 193 ✭✭eltonyio


    I don't have a case number yet as it's still at the not initiated stage.

    I did email the Minister a week ago and ask her why she wanted to clog up the courts...no reply yet though.


  • #25
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »
    Could anyone answer this please?

    Short answer is no!
    You'll still have to jump through hoops to get your money back.

    Ryanair could process every refund in 72 hours if they had the motivation.

    Michael O'Leary has the opposite motivation he wants to keep your money.

    That's why he still pushing this absurd line that he has to have a human being process each refund.

    He didn't have any human look at each booking as it was made.


  • #26
    JTMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭JTMan


    paddy19 wrote: »
    I wonder have we buried them with claims?

    Can you give us a rough idea of your case number so we can see how many cases they have got recently?

    Mine is the 216X range.

    Where can one view their case number? I cannot see it inside my online courts account. Thanks.

    I chased the SCC today and also chased Revolut today. This whole process is deeply frustrating.


  • #27
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    JTMan wrote: »
    Where can one view their case number? I cannot see it inside my online courts account. Thanks.

    I chased the SCC today and also chased Revolut today. This whole process is deeply frustrating.

    My number is Number: D:SC:SWRD:2020:00216X. I "X" the last digit for privacy.

    I'm guessing the 00216X is sequential, so if yours was 212X and we'd know that they have had about 40 cases since the 21st.


  • #28
    paddy19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Flight cancellation refunds: Guide:How to get your money back.
    Ireland is one the 12 countries that supports forcing vouchers on passengers instead of a cash refund. This can happrn here where the EU regulation and Irish law will be conflicted. Imagine how long it will take the lawyers to fix that mess.

    Let Heather Humphreys know what you think.

    A phone call is best, email is great, a letter even better.
    Phone: (01) 631 2121 Email: heather.humphreys@oir.ie

    This Guide applies to Ryanair and Aer Lingus flights originating in Ireland.

    Request refund.

    Most processes require you to try to get a refund from the Airline.

    You do not have to:

    1. Phone a call centre and wait for hours.
    2. Wait in any queue until after the Covid has passed.
    3. Accept or reject any voucher.

    You need to make a reasonable effort to apply for a refund.
    ***Take a photo or screen shot of your application for your records***.

    Ryanair refunds:
    https://refundclaims.ryanair.com/
    Refunds, Customer Service Department, Ryanair DAC, Airside Business Park Swords Co. Dublin.

    Air Lingus refunds.:
    https://www.aerlingus.com/support/forms/refund-request-form/

    Guest Relations Department, Aer Lingus Head Office, Dublin Airport, Co Dublin K67 PW99, Ireland.

    Don't get the run around from Airline reps.

    A good old fashioned snail mail to their head office will suffice.
    Just include your details, the booking reference and that the request is applicable to all passengers and flights on the booking.

    You do not have to send this letter by registered post.

    You can make your claim 10 days after you have requested your refund.

    1. Chargeback This is a voluntary process operated by the banks.
    It is not a legal process.

    Each bank is responsible for their own process so different banks handle chargeback in their own way.
    The major credit card companies have guidelines but it seems that each bank can largely do whatever they like.

    N26 simple cancel the charge and put the money in your account. The airline can dispute the claim within 30 days.

    AIB (the government owned bank) simple refuse all requests.
    Other banks request the money from the airline and allow them various periods usually 30 days to come back.

    Bank of Ireland are reported to be good.

    Chances of success: Limited
    Most banks don't want the hassle and will produce lame excuses that the airline is offering a voucher.
    You could complain to the Central Bank but it's history on consumer protection is lamentable.

    2. CAR (Commission for Aviation Regulation).
    CAR is supposed to regulate the airlines to protect the consumer.
    They are a joke!
    Rather than enforcing EU261 they accepted the lame excuse from the airlines that cash refunds cannot be automated. Funny how TicketMaster have managed it!

    They do however operate an excellent free complaint process that works very well.

    Ignore 6 week wait, lodge complaint today.

    https://www.flightrights.ie/home/com...edure.452.html

    Chances of Success: Excellent. Process is simple, follow-up is excellent.

    3. Small claims court. €25 non refundable fee. Airline response in 15 days.

    Five Step guide here.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...p?t=2058071799

    Don't be put off by the court in the title, it's all online, you don't have to appear or hire a solicitor.

    Chances of success: Excellent.

    4. Travel insurance.

    Varies by policy and company.

    Chances of success: Limited.

    Insurance companies expect you to try all other avenues before they will even consider paying out. Insurance companies would like to have a catch 22 clause in every contract that says " claims will not be entertained, authorised or financed".

    Background:
    Processing cash refunds is not a Covid problem, employee distancing issue or lack of computer resources
    the airlines have your money and they want to keep it and sell you restrictive vouchers.

    The airlines are delaying cash refunds for flight cancellation in clear breach of the law, EU261 Article 8 which states:

    Right to reimbursement -
    "Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall
    be offered ...... (a) — reimbursement within seven days"

    The airlines have employed a range of tactics to hinder the consumer requesting or getting a refund.

    All of these tactics are designed to delay you getting your money.

    Ryanair are upfront in breaking the regulation and have no plan in complying with the it. Michael O'Leary claims that "cash refunds cannot be automated". No computer expert I can find would agree with this absurdity. The Commission for Aviation Regulation has accepted this at face value and give Ryanair the nod to continue to deliberately break the law.

    Aer Lingus are fast with 7 day promises but when questioned talk about 2 to 3 months delay.

    The airlines have massive computer systems which could process every refund automatically within 72 hours.
    There is no requirement for human intervention, after all the airline took your booking and money automatically online.
    The car hire companies can issue refunds in 24 hours.

    If the lame Aviation Commission could fine the airlines a €100 per day per delayed refund the backlog would vanish in 72 hours.


This discussion has been closed.
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