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Can I kick her out?

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    #32
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,685 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Brysen Echoing Ladyfinger wrote: »
    Boot her out, not your concern where she goes just make sure it’s not your house.



    All nonsense, it’s been explained over and over that the only licensees are those this applies to are students in purpose built student accommodation.

    Absolutely no way does it apply to people who have “guests” in their home.

    This is not a guest.

    Its a student in "digs" - that means the kid is paying.


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    #33
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    Slydice wrote: »
    You might be risking having to give her €20,000 and having to take her back into your digs if you kick her out.


    From previous posts:

    There is so much bad advice in this thread its ridiculous, and not to pick on you but that post is the worst example of it.

    Firstly the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2020 states in section 5(7) that “all proposed evictions in all tenancies in the State, including those not covered by the Act of 2004, are prohibited during the operation of the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Covid-19) Act 2020.”

    Under section 5 of the principle 2004 act a tenant is defined as “the person for the time being entitled to the occupation of a dwelling under a tenancy..” The definition of a dwelling under section 4 of the principle act is stated as being .. a property let for rent or valuable consideration as a self-contained residential unit and includes any building or part of a building used as a dwelling and any out office, yard, garden or other land appurtenant to it or usually enjoyed with it”.

    A room in a house is not a self contained residential unit and, it is clear from these definitions that licensee arrangements are not considered to fall under the scope of the term tenant or tenancy as defined in the principle act. There is vast swathes of case law that support this.

    Secondly, the 2020 act (including its incorporation of section 37 of the Residential Tenancies Amendment Act 201, which only covers licensees in purpose built student accommodation) in no way amends the scope of the definitions above to incorporate licensees into the meaning of a tenant under the principle 2004 act, nor does it create a new definition for the purposes of interpretation under the 2020 act. As such it is impossible to see how any construction of the three aforementioned acts combined could result in the conclusion that arrangements which involve the owner also living in the premises are covered by the new measures.

    The information on the RTB website is factually incorrect and i've personally complained to them about it, and asked that they remove it.


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    #34
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,407 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    It's absolutely 100% true.

    ...

    As I said, I'm not guessing here.........

    Any link to that legislation?


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    #35
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    never_mind wrote: »
    I know under normal circumstances She’d be gone but I’m just worried that we’d some how get in trouble if we did kick her out. That she might take a case against us etc. Hmmm

    All you have to do is a tiny little bit of research for yourself and you’d know that she can’t “take a case against us”.
    She’s a guest in your house, that’s it.
    You let her in, you let her treat you like ****, you don’t want a confrontation by telling her to leave so she’ll have to stay because no one else is going to do it for you.
    What kind of advice are you looking for exactly?


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    #36
    shenanagans
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭shenanagans


    New Emergency Legislation:
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector

    Quote:
    "The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation."

    Poster stating this girl is in digs in their house.


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    #37
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    This is not a guest.

    Its a student in "digs" - that means the kid is paying.

    She’s a paying guest. That’s it. If you can give us a link to evidence that she has any rights then I’d love to read it.


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    #38
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    Del Boy wrote: »
    Recent weeks are irrelevant. The legisation changed yesterday. So NOW you can't kick anyone out.

    Stop posting BS, there was no new legislation passed yesterday. Here's todays Oifiguil as proof.


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    #39
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    At present, nobody is allowed to have a "guest" in their home........ she lives there and will continue to live there until the risk of her moving has been drastically reduced, whether she's paying rent or not, therefore she can't be removed. That's the long and the short of it.


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    #40
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    shenanagans wrote: »
    New Emergency Legislation:
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector

    Quote:
    "The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation."

    Poster stating this girl is in digs in their house.


    The emergency legislation applies to all tenancies which fall under the Residential Tenancies Act, this includes Approved Housing Bodies, Student Specific and Private Rented Accommodation. The emergency legislation also applies to Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation.




    And the very first line states ,
    Put her out on her ear


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    #41
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    shenanagans wrote: »
    New Emergency Legislation:
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector

    Quote:
    "The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation."

    Poster stating this girl is in digs in their house.

    Thats not what the legislation says at all though. I posted the exact text of it above


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    #42
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    At present, nobody is allowed to have a "guest" in their home........ she lives there, whether she's paying rent or not, therefore she can't be removed. That's the long and the short of it.

    I’d move her.


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    #43
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    At present, nobody is allowed to have a "guest" in their home........ she lives there, whether she's paying rent or not, therefore she can't be removed. That's the long and the short of it.

    No it's not, have you actually read the legislation? I posted the exact text of it above. it says absolutely nothing of the sort.


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    #44
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Del Boy wrote: »
    Recent weeks are irrelevant. The legisation changed yesterday. So NOW you can't kick anyone out.

    No it didn't. No legislation can be passed without a fully constituted Seanad. We won't have one of those until a government is formed and the then Taoiseach appoints the final 11 members.


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    #45
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Time wrote: »
    No it's not, have you actually read the legislation? I posted the exact text of it above. it says absolutely nothing of the sort.

    You're wrong.


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    #46
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    shenanagans wrote: »
    With effect from Friday, 27 March 2020, new emergency measures were introduced into law to protect tenants during the COVID-19 emergency period.

    Date wrong. Content right.

    Well thats not what was said, its simply not true that more legislation was introduced yesterday. I posted the exact text from the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2020. If you read it you'll see that the only people covered are tenants and licensees in purpose built student accommodation.


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    #47
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    You're wrong.

    Great analysis of the legislative text there. Care to explain what part of section incorporates licensees outside of those under the 2019 act i.e students in purpose built accommodation?


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    #48
    Del Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Del Boy


    Caranica wrote: »
    No it didn't. No legislation can be passed without a fully constituted Seanad. We won't have one of those until a government is formed and the then Taoiseach appoints the final 11 members.

    The RTB website is wrong so. Legislation was introduced on 27th March.....before seanad elections.


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    #49
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I’d move her.

    Physically, you could....... but you'd then run the risk of severe consequences....... and she'd be placed back into your home regardless.

    The opportunity to remove her has passed......


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    #50
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Del Boy wrote: »
    The RTB website is wrong so. Legislation was introduced on 27th March.....before seanad elections.

    You said it changed yesterday, ie 23 April. The other cases on this forum are entirely relevant as they occurred since the legislation was brought in last month.


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    #51
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Physically, you could....... but you'd then run the risk of severe consequences....... and she'd be placed back into your home regardless.

    The opportunity to remove her has passed......

    This is the worst advice i've ever seen given on this site, and thats saying something.


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    #52
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Time wrote: »
    Well thats not what was said, its simply not true that more legislation was introduced yesterday. I posted the exact text from the Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2020. If you read it you'll see that the only people covered are tenants and licensees in purpose built student accommodation.

    This is not a "is she/is she not a tenant?" issue....... regardless of what she's labelled, she cannot be removed at present.


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    #53
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Time wrote: »
    This is the worst advice i've ever seen given on this site, and thats saying something.

    I'm not giving advice, I'm stating the realities of the current crisis and it's effects on the Op's predicament.


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    #54
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    This is not a "is she/is she not a tenant?" issue....... regardless of what she's labelled, she cannot be removed at present.

    Yes it absolutely is, the 2020 act only applies to tenants and those considered to be tenants, not licensees. Constitutionally speaking it would be impossible to force someone to allow a guest to remain in their dwelling.


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    #55
    Del Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Del Boy


    Caranica wrote: »
    You said it changed yesterday, ie 23 April. The other cases on this forum are entirely relevant as they occurred since the legislation was brought in last month.

    I'd take guidance from RTB website rather than from you.

    Law is Law.


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    #56
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I'm not giving advice, I'm stating the realities of the current crisis and it's effects on the Op's predicament.

    You haven't a clue about the realities. If you did you'd explain exactly how the 2020 act prevents the removal of a licensee.


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    #57
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    Del Boy wrote: »
    I'd take guidance from RTB website rather than from you.

    Law is Law.

    How Ironic, i posted the law itself while you posted the RTB website. The law is the law though, at least you got that part right.


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    #58
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Time wrote: »
    Yes it absolutely is, the 2020 act only applies to tenants and those considered to be tenants, not licensees. Constitutionally speaking it would be impossible to force someone to allow a guest to remain in their dwelling.

    It wasn't too long ago that it was "unconstitutional" to prevent a citizen from going for a 3km jog........ times have changed radically, catch up.


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    #59
    Del Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Del Boy


    Caranica wrote: »
    Not at all true. There's been several threads on this matter in recent weeks, in one of the cases the Gardai witnessed the serving of notice to quit. Nobody is obliged to allow a guest, paying or otherwise, remain in their household, particularly when they pose a health risk to other residents.

    She's not a guest. The poster stated she was in digs in their house.


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    #60
    Paulownia
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Paulownia


    Does she have a lease?
    Otherwise you can tell her to go


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    #61
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,008 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Del Boy wrote: »
    She's not a guest. The poster stated she was in digs in their house.

    If you live with the property owner, you are a guest, and not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act, even if you are paying. The references to students applies to purpose built student accommodation which used not be covered by the RTA.


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