Can I kick her out?

never_mind

Hi everyone

We have a student in ‘digs’ with us. She is a friend’s cousin and we were helping her out for college accommodation. With covid we expected her to head home but she decided to stay. Her attitude has been fairly rotten since then including drinking a lot, being very dirty, not helping around house, and smoking in her room. We’ve done everything to try and sort these issues out with her but i think we have to give her the heave ho soon.

As covid seems to be here for the long term I wonder how and when I should broach then topic with her. She is a licensee I guess but our mental health is suffering with her. We were going to give her the summer and tell her she would have to head home by early August. Nothing has been decided and I just wanted to see what you all thought first.

benjy1000

never_mind wrote: »

Hi everyone

We have a student in ‘digs’ with us. She is a friend’s cousin and we were helping her out for college accommodation. With covid we expected her to head home but she decided to stay. Her attitude has been fairly rotten since then including drinking a lot, being very dirty, not helping around house, and smoking in her room. We’ve done everything to try and sort these issues out with her but i think we have to give her the heave ho soon.

As covid seems to be here for the long term I wonder how and when I should broach then topic with her. She is a licensee I guess but our mental health is suffering with her. We were going to give her the summer and tell her she would have to head home by early August. Nothing has been decided and I just wanted to see what you all thought first.

Out ta f**k now, let its cousin take it in.
Mad stuff

endacl

It’s apparently a grey area.

What isn’t a grey area is access to your kitchen. Put a lock on it.

Access to bathrooms and toilets. Put a lock on them.

Access to services such as WiFi. Change your codes.

Access to anything that isn’t the room she rented from you, in short.

Claw Hammer

endacl wrote: »

It’s apparently a grey area.

What isn’t a grey area is access to your kitchen. Put a lock on it.

Access to bathrooms and toilets. Put a lock on them.

Access to services such as WiFi. Change your codes.

Access to anything that isn’t the room she rented from you, in short.

There is no grey area. Put her out.

drunkmonkey

Find her safe passage home tonight. Surprised this is even a question she shouldn't be there in the first place.

martinr5232

never_mind wrote:

We have a student in ‘digs’ with us. She is a friend’s cousin and we were helping her out for college accommodation. With covid we expected her to head home but she decided to stay. Her attitude has been fairly rotten since then including drinking a lot, being very dirty, not helping around house, and smoking in her room. We’ve done everything to try and sort these issues out with her but i think we have to give her the heave ho soon.

No good deed goes unpunished :-) Get her out ta f#$k shes not your problem and she has somewhere else to go.

never_mind

I know under normal circumstances She’d be gone but I’m just worried that we’d some how get in trouble if we did kick her out. That she might take a case against us etc. Hmmm

Claw Hammer

never_mind wrote: »

I know under normal circumstances She’d be gone but I’m just worried that we’d some how get in trouble if we did kick her out. That she might take a case against us etc. Hmmm

She has no grounds to take any case. Wasters like that never take cases anyway. She is not going to pay a solicitor to write to you!

never_mind

Claw Hammer wrote: »

She has no grounds to take any case. Wasters like that never take cases anyway. She is not going to pay a solicitor to write to you!

It’s getting bad but think we will live with it until restrictions are lifted somewhat so she can view other places. My friend won’t have her and I don’t think her parents are keen on her (imagine!)

Claw Hammer

never_mind wrote: »

It’s getting bad but think we will live with it until restrictions are lifted somewhat so she can view other places. My friend won’t have her and I don’t think her parents are keen on her (imagine!)

If her relations don't want her, why are you keeping her?

never_mind

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If her relations don't want her, why are you keeping her?

Covid at this stage tbh

jimmycrackcorm

never_mind wrote: »

It’s getting bad but think we will live with it until restrictions are lifted somewhat so she can view other places. My friend won’t have her and I don’t think her parents are keen on her (imagine!)

Change the lock on the front door.

It's not your problem. Give her two days notice. She can go back to her parents. She doesn't have any rights to stay in your home any longer than that as a licencee.

There have been other similar threads. If you search then you'll find such troublesome licencees ended up going without any recourse and the owners put up with their crap for too long.

Slydice

You might be risking having to give her €20,000 and having to take her back into your digs if you kick her out.


From previous posts:

Slydice wrote: »

From what I know, tenant is the word being used and sometimes tenant just means tenant.

That sometimes, there's another word used for lodgers / rent-a-room / digs and that word is usually: licensee
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

If you are renting a room in your landlord's home, your situation is very different. You do not have a standard tenancy agreement. Instead, you have a licensee agreement with your landlord.

Just checking the Act of Law...
the final one listed here "27 Mar 2020": https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2020/4/
direct link to the pdf:
https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf

well checking the Act of Law.. in:

PART 2
OPERATION OF RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004

It has this in the Interpretation section 3. -> (2) -> (b)

references to tenant shall be construed as including references to licensee

Slydice wrote: »

I think this was added yesterday/last night sometime:
Guidance Document on COVID-19 Supports for Landlords and Tenants (pdf 361.53 KB)
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/guidance_document_support_for_landlords_and_tenants.pdf

4.1 Unlawful Termination of Tenancies
.
.
Please be aware that carrying out an illegal eviction can result in damages of up to €20,000 being awarded to the tenant. The RTB can seek an injunction from the high court to reinstate the tenant and will continue to prioritise these cases during the emergency period.

Slydice wrote: »

This looks to have been interpreted and brought over to the Residential Tenancies Board website now or maybe I missed it before now, I'm not sure:
https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/covid-19-emergency-legislation-for-rental-sector

Again key point for landlords:

Carrying out an illegal eviction, which includes prohibiting access to the property or making the property uninhabitable by disconnecting services, can result in damages of up to €20,000 being awarded to the tenant. The RTB can seek an injunction from the Courts to reinstate the tenant and will continue to prioritise these cases during the emergency period.

Rent a Room & 'Digs' Accommodation included in legislation

• The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements.

Slydice

Boot her out, not your concern where she goes just make sure it’s not your house.

Slydice wrote: »

You might be risking having to give her €20,000 and having to take her back into your digs if you kick her out.


From previous posts:

All nonsense, it’s been explained over and over that the only licensees are those this applies to are students in purpose built student accommodation.

Absolutely no way does it apply to people who have “guests” in their home.

Big Bag of Chips

It’s getting bad but think we will live with it until restrictions are lifted somewhat so she can view other places

You're doing her a favour (a huge massive, massive, massive favour) and she is royally taking the piss. The cynical side of me thinks your "friend" knew exactly what she was like and saw you as the soft touch that you are.

Tell her, don't ask, tell her to leave your home now. It's not working out and she's not in college at the moment. Call her cousin and tell them to come and get her, or to contact her parents and get them to collect her.

punisher5112

Out on the kerb..... Bye

drunkmonkey

Slydice wrote: »

You might be risking having to give her €20,000 and having to take her back into your digs if you kick her out.


From previous posts:

She'd want to prove she was at a loss of 20k to get 20k, being sent home to mammy in a pandemic wouldn't warrent much compo, all they have to say is she was coughing in her room and frightening the children. She'll get sweet fa, she won't sue anyway as she's a friend of the cousins.

never_mind

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

You're doing her a favour (a huge massive, massive, massive favour) and she is royally taking the piss. The cynical side of me thinks your "friend" knew exactly what she was like and saw you as the soft touch that you are.

Tell her, don't ask, tell her to leave your home now. It's not working out and she's not in college at the moment. Call her cousin and tell them to come and get her, or to contact her parents and get them to collect her.

Tbf I’ll always follow your advice! PI master and all that.

never_mind

Slydice wrote: »

You might be risking having to give her €20,000 and having to take her back into your digs if you kick her out.


From previous posts:

Thanks for this!!

Blondie919

never_mind wrote: »

Hi everyone

We have a student in ‘digs’ with us. She is a friend’s cousin and we were helping her out for college accommodation. With covid we expected her to head home but she decided to stay. Her attitude has been fairly rotten since then including drinking a lot, being very dirty, not helping around house, and smoking in her room. We’ve done everything to try and sort these issues out with her but i think we have to give her the heave ho soon.

As covid seems to be here for the long term I wonder how and when I should broach then topic with her. She is a licensee I guess but our mental health is suffering with her. We were going to give her the summer and tell her she would have to head home by early August. Nothing has been decided and I just wanted to see what you all thought first.

You see these 3 words in Bold? She is a breeding ground for Covid-19. Get her out of your house now! Don't wait for this virus to pass. That will be ages from now. Do not put up with any more of her.

Del Boy

never_mind wrote: »

Hi everyone

We have a student in ‘digs’ with us. She is a friend’s cousin and we were helping her out for college accommodation. With covid we expected her to head home but she decided to stay. Her attitude has been fairly rotten since then including drinking a lot, being very dirty, not helping around house, and smoking in her room. We’ve done everything to try and sort these issues out with her but i think we have to give her the heave ho soon.

As covid seems to be here for the long term I wonder how and when I should broach then topic with her. She is a licensee I guess but our mental health is suffering with her. We were going to give her the summer and tell her she would have to head home by early August. Nothing has been decided and I just wanted to see what you all thought first.

Updated legislation means you can't kick her out.

I would start coughing and sweating lots around her. 😷

Caranica

Del Boy wrote: »

Updated legislation means you can't kick her out.

I would start coughing and sweating lots around her. ��

No it doesn't! See the information already posted above.

Baseball72

never_mind wrote: »

I know under normal circumstances She’d be gone but I’m just worried that we’d some how get in trouble if we did kick her out. That she might take a case against us etc. Hmmm

NOT YOUR PROBLEM!

She needs to go - tomorrow!

Del Boy

Caranica wrote: »

No it doesn't! See the information already posted above.

RTB website..... Emergency Legislation

"Rent a Room & 'Digs' Accommodation included in legislation

The emergency legislation states that all proposed evictions are prohibited, including Rent-a-Room and Digs-style accommodation. Property owners and anyone renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, have regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid ending accommodation arrangements"

Can anyone show / post a link to the updated legislation that includes rent-a-room?

It's not mentioned in the original act but it's mentioned in rtb, citizens info, etc sites

Caranica

Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government Guidance on Covid-19. Licensors and Licensees are in relation to student accommodation only.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/guidance_document_support_for_landlords_and_tenants.pdf

The RTB has no role in this as it's not a tenancy situation.

MadDog76

In the current climate you definitely cannot remove an individual from your home to travel any distance to reside in an alternative household........ it's simply forbidden with no wiggle room whatsoever, end of....... one phone call to the Gardai and you'll be forced to keep her under threat of arrest for violating the current restrictions.
I'm not guessing here, I'm telling you as a matter of fact.

When the situation changes, and you have the opportunity, then remove her immediately...... but until then you're stuck with her unfortunately.

Best of luck!

Caranica

MadDog76 wrote: »

In the current climate you definitely cannot remove an individual from your home to travel any distance to reside in an alternative household........ it's simply forbidden with no wiggle room whatsoever, end of....... one phone call to the Gardai and you'll be forced to keep her under threat of arrest for violating the current restrictions.
I'm not guessing here, I'm telling you as a matter of fact.

When the situation changes, and you have the opportunity, then remove her immediately...... but until then you're stuck with her unfortunately.

Best of luck!

Not at all true. There's been several threads on this matter in recent weeks, in one of the cases the Gardai witnessed the serving of notice to quit. Nobody is obliged to allow a guest, paying or otherwise, remain in their household, particularly when they pose a health risk to other residents.

Blondie919

MadDog76 wrote: »

In the current climate you definitely cannot remove an individual from your home to travel any distance to reside in an alternative household........ it's simply forbidden with no wiggle room whatsoever, end of....... one phone call to the Gardai and you'll be forced to keep her under threat of arrest for violating the current restrictions.
I'm not guessing here, I'm telling you as a matter of fact.

When the situation changes, and you have the opportunity, then remove her immediately...... but until then you're stuck with her unfortunately.

Best of luck!

That sucks! Seriously.

Del Boy

Caranica wrote: »

Not at all true. There's been several threads on this matter in recent weeks, in one of the cases the Gardai witnessed the serving of notice to quit. Nobody is obliged to allow a guest, paying or otherwise, remain in their household, particularly when they pose a health risk to other residents.

Recent weeks are irrelevant. The legisation changed recently. So NOW you can't kick anyone out.

MadDog76

Caranica wrote: »

Not at all true. There's been several threads on this matter in recent weeks, in one of the cases the Gardai witnessed the serving of notice to quit. Nobody is obliged to allow a guest, paying or otherwise, remain in their household, particularly when they pose a health risk to other residents.

It's absolutely 100% true.

The assumption is that she (the "guest") and/or any other member of the household she currently resides in may be unknowingly positive with Covid19 therefore moving her on (ie. further spreading the virus) is simply forbidden....... the risks with forcing her out supercede any other legalities during the present crisis.

As I said, I'm not guessing here.........