Is it just me or have SF vanished?

blanch152 · 21-04-2020 09:44AM

smurgen wrote: »

So they days previous to the 77 were less than what actually happened. But on the day of the 77, there would have been deaths occuring on that day not also counted.

Quite possibly.

However, if on the day of the 77, there were a whole lot of tests back from Germany at the same time that proved that a lot of deaths over the previous week were actually Covid-19 and not ordinary deaths, you could have had a one-off spike in the statistics.

That is why unless you are trying to spin, you won’t take one days figure in isolation.

aido79 · 21-04-2020 09:51AM

smurgen wrote: »

I'm not having difficulty. What I'm saying in that yesterday's actual deaths were not all reported in yesterdays numbers some are outstanding.

Yes. That is the way it's been since the start of covid19 deaths being reported.

smurgen · 21-04-2020 09:54AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Quite possibly.

However, if on the day of the 77, there were a whole lot of tests back from Germany at the same time that proved that a lot of deaths over the previous week were actually Covid-19 and not ordinary deaths, you could have had a one-off spike in the statistics.

That is why unless you are trying to spin, you won’t take one days figure in isolation.

A considered response. What I'm getting at is that spin can work pro and against tho. That's why I wouldn't be rushing to downplay 77 deaths.

walshb · 21-04-2020 09:57AM

McMurphy wrote: »

77 deaths population of 5 million
919 deaths population 60 million

In fact if we get 77 deaths in a single day, that would give us an even worse daily death toll than Italy has had this far.

Do the maths yourself.

Kind of pathetic points scoring this..

We have "more" deaths than you, so we are bad......?

Stupid type stuff as well....Kind of like Trump, but the opposite, as in him and his very odd and weird gloating....

Overall we could be in a whole lot worse a predicament had we not implemented our measures and stuck with them.

Mortelaro · 21-04-2020 10:37AM

McMurphy wrote: »

77 deaths population of 5 million
919 deaths population 60 million

In fact if we get 77 deaths in a single day, that would give us an even worse daily death toll than Italy has had this far.

Do the maths yourself.

One slight problem with your logic there
Those 77 deaths were not all in one day
Many of them were from several days ago depending on when they were reported
That point was made by Dr Holahan yesterday at the briefing
So nowhere near Italys daily death toll,which by the way only includes hospital deaths
Unlike ours which includes outside hospitals

Apples and oranges

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 10:41AM

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

blanch152 · 21-04-2020 10:46AM

smurgen wrote: »

A considered response. What I'm getting at is that spin can work pro and against tho. That's why I wouldn't be rushing to downplay 77 deaths.

I am not giving the 77 deaths at this point any significance good or bad. If in a week's time, the number is 277 deaths, we will know what the 77 signified. Statistics rely on patterns at all times.

One thing we do know, when the numbers peak, we will have already passed the peak, given the lag in reporting numbers. Whether the numbers have peaked yet, you never know until the next day.

blanch152 · 21-04-2020 10:47AM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

The difference with Sinn Fein is that we can watch what they are and aren't doing as part of government in another jurisdiction.

21-04-2020 11:26AM

Surely, not to be outdone, The SF publicity machine will be announcing that they are releasing all of their balaclava stockpile to the public?

https://www.thejournal.ie/orange-order-buys-ppe-shipment-5079583-Apr2020/

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 11:49AM

blanch152 wrote: »

The difference with Sinn Fein is that we can watch what they are and aren't doing as part of government in another jurisdiction.

That's not what I asked, but I have become used to you skirting around providing answers. Are you sure you are not a politician yourself? You have many of the necessary traits.

markodaly · 21-04-2020 11:50AM

walshb wrote: »

Kind of pathetic points scoring this..

We have "more" deaths than you, so we are bad......?

Stupid type stuff as well....Kind of like Trump, but the opposite, as in him and his very odd and weird gloating....

Overall we could be in a whole lot worse a predicament had we not implemented our measures and stuck with them.

To be honest, this is all getting macabre and pathetic.

There are some people out there that would love for the situation in Ireland to be worse so that they can get on the blowhorn and get some cheap political point scoring-in via a tweet or such.
More Irish dead = better for their political 'team'

As I said, it says a lot more about them.

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 11:52AM

markodaly wrote: »

To be honest, this is all getting macabre and pathetic.

There are some people out there that would love for the situation in Ireland to be worse so that they can get on the blowhorn and get some cheap political point scoring-in via a tweet or such.
More Irish dead = better for their political 'team'

As I said, it says a lot more about them.

So stop engaging that style of discussion. Go back a few posts and answer my question.

blanch152 · 21-04-2020 12:07PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

Your post is inaccurate in how it describes the current situation.

You say that "no opposition party has any powers to enact legislation..", when it is the fact that given the Seanad hasn't been formed, no party at all has any powers to enact legislation. In fact, because we have only a caretaker government, there is no government or opposition, there is a lacuna. Ministers don't have to answer PQs, respond to debates etc., the fact that this has happened is down to forbearance on the part of the caretaker government.

The caretaker government is doing its best in the absence of the normal powers of government to enact legislation. The onus now is on all parties to redouble their efforts to form a government and elect a Taoiseach so that normal decision-making can resume.

So you ask what can an opposition party do, the answer is there is no opposition party yet, what all parties have is a responsibility to engage in government formation, or stand aside and wait for government to form. Sinn Fein are choosing the latter, but that doesn't give them any role except as a bystander, fence-sitter, and ditch-hurler.

markodaly · 21-04-2020 12:09PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

So stop engaging that style of discussion. Go back a few posts and answer my question.

What question is this now?

smurgen · 21-04-2020 12:14PM

walshb wrote: »

Kind of pathetic points scoring this..

We have "more" deaths than you, so we are bad......?

Stupid type stuff as well....Kind of like Trump, but the opposite, as in him and his very odd and weird gloating....

Overall we could be in a whole lot worse a predicament had we not implemented our measures and stuck with them.

It's pathetic and goal scoring when we say the numbers aren't great but it's look at how great we are relative to others when we say the numbers are good. I've seen plenty of fine Gael supporters point out other countries numbers in this manner. E.g

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1252336108144218113?s=19

21-04-2020 12:15PM

blanch152 wrote: »

So you ask what can an opposition party do, the answer is there is no opposition party yet, what all parties have is a responsibility to engage in government formation, or stand aside and wait for government to form. Sinn Fein are choosing the latter, but that doesn't give them any role except as a bystander, fence-sitter, and ditch-hurler.

Is it fair to say that most of our recently elected TDs seem to have decided that they want no part in running this country? :pac:

This dail is a clown show.

markodaly · 21-04-2020 12:21PM

smurgen wrote: »

It's pathetic and goal scoring when we say the numbers aren't great but it's look at how great we are relative to others when we say the numbers are good. I've seen plenty of fine Gael supporters point out other countries numbers in this manner. E.g

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1252336108144218113?s=19

1) How do you know the person behind that tweet is a Fine Gael supporter?
2) How do you know the person behind the tweet is not a Fine Gael supporter?

smurgen · 21-04-2020 12:26PM

markodaly wrote: »

1) How do you know the person behind that tweet is a Fine Gael supporter?
2) How do you know the person behind the tweet is not a Fine Gael supporter?

Surrorts the party line at every stage. Minimising disasters amplifying success. Although I agree with your sentiment, these parts cheerleaders should have their membership posted on their profiles so we can discount their opinion.

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 12:28PM

blanch152 wrote: »

what all parties have is a responsibility to engage in government formation, or stand aside and wait for government to form. Sinn Fein are choosing the latter, but that doesn't give them any role except as a bystander, fence-sitter, and ditch-hurler.

So the title of this thread makes mention to them 'disappearing' yet you admit yourself all the can do is

A) "engage in government formation" (which they have tried to do and are still exploring possibilities), but I think all reasonably minded people would agree that it is currently impossible for SF to form a majority or even a minority government.

Or

"stand aside and wait for government to form"

When they choose B, you and many others accuse them of disappearing, like they have other options available to them. "Where are SF", "What are SF doing to help with the crisis" "I'm glad SF weren't in government, they've done nothing since the virus emerged". etc etc. Hypocrisy at its finest!

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 12:28PM

markodaly wrote: »

What question is this now?

Good man, play dumb!

markodaly · 21-04-2020 12:35PM

smurgen wrote: »

Surrorts the party line at every stage. Minimising disasters amplifying success. Although I agree with your sentiment, these parts cheerleaders should have their membership posted on their profiles so we can discount their opinion.

So, at the end of the day, we should discount everyone's opinion?

markodaly · 21-04-2020 12:36PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Good man, play dumb!

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 12:44PM

markodaly wrote: »

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

Nope, I'm not. I asked a question 5 posts prior to yours and instead of scrolling back to look at it and provide an answer you decided to ask "what question" even though I had advised you to go back a few posts to see it.

Blanch is the only one who had the ability to provide a response.

Mortelaro · 21-04-2020 12:53PM

smurgen wrote: »

Surrorts the party line at every stage. Minimising disasters amplifying success. Although I agree with your sentiment, these parts cheerleaders should have their membership posted on their profiles so we can discount their opinion.

Who's We ?

markodaly · 21-04-2020 04:47PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Nope, I'm not. I asked a question 5 posts prior to yours and instead of scrolling back to look at it and provide an answer you decided to ask "what question" even though I had advised you to go back a few posts to see it.

Blanch is the only one who had the ability to provide a response.

So you were talking in general than. OK.

James Brown · 21-04-2020 05:12PM

Imagine if before the dust settled on an election MLMD announced she 'relished going into opposition', would that fall under 'not wanting to govern', 'wanting to be a hurler from the ditch', wanting to whinge rather than stepping up etc.? Not to mention knocking back FF on two occasions and repeating the wish to go into opposition.

Whelo79 · 21-04-2020 05:15PM

markodaly wrote: »

So you were talking in general than. OK.

Can you still not muster up an answer to the question, no?

Mortelaro · 21-04-2020 05:28PM

Bowie wrote: »

Imagine if before the dust settled on an election MLMD announced she 'relished going into opposition', would that fall under 'not wanting to govern', 'wanting to be a hurler from the ditch', wanting to whinge rather than stepping up etc.? Not to mention knocking back FF on two occasions and repeating the wish to go into opposition.

What's wrong with reacting to the election result in that way?
Weren't the left wanting their own government
Sf wanting that left government too but it lacked numbers so wanted other left parties to join them with FF but they said No way

What exactly was wrong with FG preferring opposition?

This conversation is a ring a ring a Rosie's with mis representing reality for the sake of giving out at whatever course FG took as no doubt if they came out last February all guns blazing for what they're doing now,the left would similarly complain

That much is obvious

Also obvious is the reason SF arent going into government
The electorate didn't give a mandate for them to be there
2 of the biggest parties campaigned to keep them out
Mind you 2 of the 3 also campaigned to keep FG out
Only difference is,one of them u turned on the FG question which I suppose was their decision in answer to we are where we are

James Brown · 21-04-2020 05:39PM

Mortelaro wrote: »

What's wrong with reacting to the election result in that way?
Weren't the left wanting their own government
Sf wanting that left government too but it lacked numbers so wanted other left parties to join them with FF but they said No way

What exactly was wrong with FG preferring opposition?

This conversation is a ring a ring a Rosie's with mis representing reality for the sake of giving out at whatever course FG took as no doubt if they came out last February all guns blazing for what they're doing now,the left would similarly complain

That much is obvious

Also obvious is the reason SF arent going into government
The electorate didn't give a mandate for them to be there
2 of the biggest parties campaigned to keep them out
Mind you 2 of the 3 also campaigned to keep FG out
Only difference is,one of them u turned on the FG question which I suppose was their decision in answer to we are where we are

Absolutely nothing. You are missing the irony though.
We've people saying the above about SF for years because they were in opposition. Yet when FG come out and announce how much the relish the idea it's seemingly fine and dandy. I was all for Labour going into opposition rather than supporting FG. The opposition parties play an important role.

FYI: There are many individual politicians and parties that make up 'the left'. Unlike FF/FG who only differ as to which paymasters they look after.

tipptom · 21-04-2020 05:42PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

Exactly,you see post after post after post of idiots saying "whats SF doing about the crisis",where is SF during the crisis" etc etc on and on."Where is Mary Loo and why is she hiding with a head flu"? WTF?

Why would any right thinking person expect SF or FF or any of the other parties to do anything except leave it to the people in power at the moment to flatten it out with the expert advice they are recieving and anybody says anything different has an agenda.

I believe Harris should have been sacked years ago but even I think he should be left in place to deal with this.

I'm not sure any of the other party's would have done that much different had they been in power and would they have ignored the advice from the experts to do some things differently in hindsight?

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Comments